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factsonly
Topic Author
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New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:52 am

HOP will launch a new AF/KL route from April 8, 2017 from AMS to LIL (Lille) in Northern France.

This is the 15th French destination served to/from AMS and is clearly part of the expansion of regional services to the Dutch AF/KL hub airport.
The route will be flown by a Rennes based HOP E145 = RNS-AMS-LIL-AMS-RNS.

In S16 AMS-Rennes was launched by AF/KL, while in S17 AMS-NTE was opgraded to an AF A319. MRS-AMS is already served by aircraft up to AF A321.

AF/KL feeder network France-NL:

1. - SXB-AMS - HOP E145 3x daily
2. - CMF-AMS - HOP E145 4x weekly
3. - MPL-AMS - KL E190 1x daily
4. - MRS-AMS - AF A320 3x daily
5. - BOD-AMS - KL B737 3x daily
6. - TLS-AMS - KL E190 4x daily
7. - NTE-AMS - AF A319/CRJ1000 3x daily
8. - RNS-AMS - HOP E145 1x daily
9. - LIL-AMS - HOP E145 4x weekly
10. - LYS-AMS - KL B737 4x daily
11. - ORY-AMS - HV/TO B737 2x daily
12. - CDG-AMS - AF/KL 11x daily
13. - AJA-AMS - HV B737 3x weekly
14. - MLH-AMS - KL E190 4x daily
15. - NCE-AMS - KL B737 4x daily

AMS-Chambery is winter only and operated by HV B738.

http://www.air-journal.fr/2017-02-21-ai ... 77519.html
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5749
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:05 pm

That is a short flight. 291 km by road and a little more than 2 hours in Thalys.

I find curious that AFKL had said that they would cancel smaller planes and shorter routes to get slots for long-haul ones, and now they are starting AMS-LIL.

Also which kind of connectivity do you get with 4 weekly and pretty much 0 local traffic flying?
 
vfw614
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:16 pm

7. - NTE-AMS - AF A319/CRJ1000 3x daily


Impressive development. I remember taking a flight on this route a couple of years ago when it was operated by a 37seat Embraer 135.
 
SCQ83
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:21 pm

Btw I recently learned that the SXB-AMS service is a PSO. How is it possible with a 3 daily flight?
 
nicode
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:30 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
That is a short flight. 291 km by road and a little more than 2 hours in Thalys.
AMS-BRU is even shorter !
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:08 pm

nicode wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
That is a short flight. 291 km by road and a little more than 2 hours in Thalys.
AMS-BRU is even shorter !


But Brussels is a hub, that makes a difference. Same applies for Dusseldorf which is about the same distance from Amsterdam and also a KLM destination (operated by KLM Cityhopper). Lille is a regional airport, not a hub. That means it's O/D traffic only at the Lille end of the line and connections only in Amsterdam. Brussels and Dusseldorf see connections at both ends of the line.

Years ago KLM stopped flying their only domestic route, Amsterdam - Maastricht. A train ride between Amsterdam and Maastricht takes longer than a train ride between Amsterdam and Lille. Both Maastricht and Lille are regional airports.
 
goldorak
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:32 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
nicode wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
But Brussels is a hub, that makes a difference. Same applies for Dusseldorf which is about the same distance from Amsterdam and also a KLM destination (operated by KLM Cityhopper). Lille is a regional airport, not a hub. That means it's O/D traffic only at the Lille end of the line and connections only in Amsterdam. Brussels and Dusseldorf see connections at both ends of the line.

Years ago KLM stopped flying their only domestic route, Amsterdam - Maastricht. A train ride between Amsterdam and Maastricht takes longer than a train ride between Amsterdam and Lille. Both Maastricht and Lille are regional airports.

BRU is not a hub for AF/KL. There is no AF/KL connection on this end.
 
Joost
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:05 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
That is a short flight. 291 km by road and a little more than 2 hours in Thalys.
I find curious that AFKL had said that they would cancel smaller planes and shorter routes to get slots for long-haul ones, and now they are starting AMS-LIL.
Also which kind of connectivity do you get with 4 weekly and pretty much 0 local traffic flying?


It could be a slot warmer, since AMS has, in 2017 for the first time, reached it's (politically motivated) limit of 500,000 flights per year. When this became clear last winter, many airlines tried all kind of things to pick the last available free slots.

Flying an otherwise parked E145 for 50 minutes, to an airport that has most likely provided start-up subsidies and has a Flying Blue FF base, could be the cheapest choice.

factsonly wrote:
AF/KL feeder network France-NL:


Do the HV/TO flights to ORY even share AF/KL codes in order to feed? AFAIK they're stand alone routes only.
 
flyingfool
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:28 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:00 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
nicode wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
That is a short flight. 291 km by road and a little more than 2 hours in Thalys.
AMS-BRU is even shorter !


But Brussels is a hub, that makes a difference. Same applies for Dusseldorf which is about the same distance from Amsterdam and also a KLM destination (operated by KLM Cityhopper). Lille is a regional airport, not a hub. That means it's O/D traffic only at the Lille end of the line and connections only in Amsterdam. Brussels and Dusseldorf see connections at both ends of the line.


I think that Lille has more connectivity than you think, Hop! is flying to Bordeaux, Lyon, Marseille, Nantes, Nice, Strasbourg, Toulouse, Ajaccio, Bastia, Biarritz, Calvi, Figari and Perpignan from Lille. If it will be convenient is another question.
 
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N644US
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:38 am

flyingfool wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
nicode wrote:
AMS-BRU is even shorter !


But Brussels is a hub, that makes a difference. Same applies for Dusseldorf which is about the same distance from Amsterdam and also a KLM destination (operated by KLM Cityhopper). Lille is a regional airport, not a hub. That means it's O/D traffic only at the Lille end of the line and connections only in Amsterdam. Brussels and Dusseldorf see connections at both ends of the line.


I think that Lille has more connectivity than you think, Hop! is flying to Bordeaux, Lyon, Marseille, Nantes, Nice, Strasbourg, Toulouse, Ajaccio, Bastia, Biarritz, Calvi, Figari and Perpignan from Lille. If it will be convenient is another question.


But why fly AMS-LIL-xxx when:

-KL/KLM Cityhopper already flies nonstop from AMS to BOD, LYS, MRS, NCE, and TLS
-A5 flies from AMS to NTE and SXB
-HV already flies seasonally to AJA
Aviation: the field where (almost) anything can be solved using math and science.
 
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downtown273
Posts: 322
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:48 am

Still quite surprised that they are not connecting AMS-BIQ.

The catchment area is significant (Biarritz + San Sebastian areas) and current connectivity is very poor (most of AF's flights from BIQ to go ORY and the AMS flights are mainly from CDG). Passengers need to travel to BIO (1-2 hr drive) and take the KL flight to AMS, or fly BIQ/EAS-MAD-AMS.

If Biarritz-Brussels is working, I'm sure the demand must be there for Amsterdam.
 
SCQ83
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:17 am

downtown273 wrote:
The catchment area is significant (Biarritz + San Sebastian areas) and current connectivity is very poor (most of AF's flights from BIQ to go ORY and the AMS flights are mainly from CDG). Passengers need to travel to BIO (1-2 hr drive) and take the KL flight to AMS, or fly BIQ/EAS-MAD-AMS.

If Biarritz-Brussels is working, I'm sure the demand must be there for Amsterdam.


There is probably way more demand on BRU-BIQ than in AMS-BIQ. Brussels is a French speaking city which means a lot of Belgians have 2nd homes in the BIQ area or just go there for holidays. And many French live in Brussels. In any case BIQ is AFKL territory, so if the demand was there, they could have easily started KLM, HOP or Transavia to AMS, RTM or EIN.

Biarritz has not a single flight with Netherlands (or Germany btw) which could be a good proxy with the lack of demand from that part of Europe. Most flights from BIQ are to French speaking Europe (France, Switzerland and Luxembourg), UK and Scandinavia.
 
factsonly
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:11 am

It seems AF/KL/HOP have cancelled their plans for Lille-AMS-Lille, the route no longer appears in their schedules.
 
TheGeordielad
Posts: 905
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:51 am

factsonly wrote:
It seems AF/KL/HOP have cancelled their plans for Lille-AMS-Lille, the route no longer appears in their schedules.

I don't think it sold well.
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3025
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:23 am

[photoid][/photoid]
downtown273 wrote:
Still quite surprised that they are not connecting AMS-BIQ.

The catchment area is significant (Biarritz + San Sebastian areas) and current connectivity is very poor (most of AF's flights from BIQ to go ORY and the AMS flights are mainly from CDG). Passengers need to travel to BIO (1-2 hr drive) and take the KL flight to AMS, or fly BIQ/EAS-MAD-AMS.

If Biarritz-Brussels is working, I'm sure the demand must be there for Amsterdam.


How is Mr and Mrs average Dutch family and dog going to get the mobile home on regional jet ?

Many/much/most Dutch holidayers to South West France and there are hundreds of thousands annually drive with their weekend home in tow !
 
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Alsatian
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:53 pm

factsonly wrote:
It seems AF/KL/HOP have cancelled their plans for Lille-AMS-Lille, the route no longer appears in their schedules.


The launch has been postponed to June 6 due to load factor lower than expected.
 
nadavatar64
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:57 pm

downtown273 wrote:
Still quite surprised that they are not connecting AMS-BIQ.

The catchment area is significant (Biarritz + San Sebastian areas) and current connectivity is very poor (most of AF's flights from BIQ to go ORY and the AMS flights are mainly from CDG). Passengers need to travel to BIO (1-2 hr drive) and take the KL flight to AMS, or fly BIQ/EAS-MAD-AMS.

If Biarritz-Brussels is working, I'm sure the demand must be there for Amsterdam.


The last time I checked, there was no BRU-BIQ flight...
 
AJCNL
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:42 pm

downtown273 wrote:
Still quite surprised that they are not connecting AMS-BIQ.

The catchment area is significant (Biarritz + San Sebastian areas) and current connectivity is very poor (most of AF's flights from BIQ to go ORY and the AMS flights are mainly from CDG). Passengers need to travel to BIO (1-2 hr drive) and take the KL flight to AMS, or fly BIQ/EAS-MAD-AMS.

If Biarritz-Brussels is working, I'm sure the demand must be there for Amsterdam.


HV flew to BIQ a few years back (from RTM I think), it was a very useful service.
 
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downtown273
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Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:48 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
The last time I checked, there was no BRU-BIQ flight...


Ryanair flies CRL-BIQ.
 
nadavatar64
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: New route: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:15 am

downtown273 wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
The last time I checked, there was no BRU-BIQ flight...


Ryanair flies CRL-BIQ.


Oh sorry, I didnt notice. Well FR has the ability to make such routes work, but as others said, there is a bigger market between France and Belgium than France and Netherlands. But I totally think that a seasonal FR EIN-BIQ could work, FR can generate traffic between two markets that has little demand as it did many times before.
 
factsonly
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: New route cancelled: AMS-Lille by HOP/AF/KL

Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:23 pm

It seems AF/HOP/KL have dropped their plans to open Lille-AMS this summer.

The initial plan was to launch the route 3x/weekly on April 6, 2017.
This was later moved to a start in the first week June 2017.

And today the route is no longer in the systems for S17.

The capacity has been allocated to RNS-AMS for the entire S17, this route has moved to double daily on 3x days / week.

- RNS-10:00 - AMS 11:35 AF/KL E145 Daily
- RNS 14:05 - AMS 15:35 AF/KL E145 Tue, Thu, Sat

- AMS 12:10 - RNS 13:35 AF/KL E145 Tue, Thu, Sat
- AMS 16:30 - RNS 17:55 AF/KL E145 Daily

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