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FB330
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Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:28 pm

I would like to understand in one thread the main differences between Delta's MD88s and MD90s please. So the kind of things I am hoping people could help with are:

Visual (External). Pictures?
Visual (Internal). Pictures?
General Route Differences
Performance Differences
Ride Quality Perception Differences
Crew Comonality?
Crew Preferences (front and back)
Retirement plans
Reg Number Ranges

Appreciate your input folks....
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:34 pm

FB330 wrote:
General Route Differences


I am particularly interested in this. Perhaps some on here could enlighten us.
 
ty97
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:35 pm

I can touch on a few of your questions.

The MD-90 is of course a stretched version of the MD-80 series. Thus visually, it's a longer plane. The 88 has 149 seats while the 90 has 158-160 seats.

All reg numbers are listed here: http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Delt ... e-md80.htm

The MD-88s are due to start retirement this year and, I believe, be gone by 2020. No MD-90 retirement plans have been announced.
 
B757Forever
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:53 pm

Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.
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FSDan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:00 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
FB330 wrote:
General Route Differences


I am particularly interested in this. Perhaps some on here could enlighten us.


The MD-88s are largely based out of ATL and are the workhorse mainline equipment there. They fly from ATL to cities in Texas, the Midwest, the South, and all up the East Coast, as well as a few international destinations in Mexico and the Caribbean. There are also a decent number of MD-88 flights out of DTW and MSP, and some out of CVG and JFK. They no longer fly from LGA.

The MD-90s fly a mix of routes from ATL, MSP, and DTW. They tend to fly slightly longer routes (e.g. ATL-TUS, DTW-DEN, MSP-SAN), but they also appear alongside the MD-88s on many shorter segments. You can find the MD-90 at many major West Coast airports, whereas the MD-88s seldom travel further west than Texas. I don't believe the MD-90s do any international flying.
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FSDan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:01 pm

B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.
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Polot
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:16 pm

FSDan wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.

Both the DL MD-88 and MD-90s have screwdriver tail cones. I'm pretty sure the screwdriver was standard on the MD-88, but it was certainly available for retrofit on the MD-80 series.
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:20 pm

FSDan wrote:
Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.


Not entirely. I know early MD-80s had the DC-9 style tailcone that you described, but if I recall correctly it changed from the MD-87 onwards and was available as a retrofit for older models.

EDIT: Polot clearly had the same idea :)
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longhauler
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:24 pm

Internally, the biggest difference was that while 2x3 in Economy, the bank of three seats was on the left side on the MD-88, while on the right side on the MD-90.

This allowed a larger rear galley on the MD-88 during a time when service sold seats and DL was slightly ahead of the pack with regard to cabin service. When the MD-90s came along, service was less of an issue, a smaller galley would be sufficient, and the bank of three seats was on the right side of the aircraft.
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fly4ever78
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:30 pm

The MD-90 has better hot and high performance due to the newer engines and serves different markets because of this. Example: Denver/Phoenix/Tucson.

It also has better range (almost 900 nm farther) which is also why it flies longer routes.

Flight crew training is common between the 88/90 and crews fly both.

There are 3 flight attendants required for the 88 and 4 for the 90.
 
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KGRB
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:38 pm

B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Actually the MD-81/82/83/87/88 (along with the DC-9-30/40/50 and 717) have one window between exits, while the MD-90 has two. See below.
Image
MD-88

Image
MD-90
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slcguy
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:39 pm

External visual: The above mentioned much larger engines, slightly longer and more squared pointed off vertical tail distinguish the MD-90. This site http://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=396 gives a detailed description of differences in the entire DC-9 family from the original DC-9-10 thru the MD-95 (717-200).

Internal visual: Standard DC-9 style with 5 abreast seating. Main difference the MD-88 is 3+2 seating and the MD-90 is reversed 2+3. Also the MD-90 has some sort of basic AVOD, don't think any of the 88's do.

Performance: The MD-90 has better high and hot performance and a bit more range. At one time they were heavily used at SLC for the better performance.

Ride quality: Quiet in front and noisy in back but overall the MD-90 is quieter.
 
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727tiger
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:42 pm

KGRB wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Actually the MD-81/82/83/87/88 (along with the DC-9-30/40/50 and 717) have one window between exits, while the MD-90 has two. See below.
Image
MD-88

Image
MD-90


And if you look at the top of each respective vertical stabilizer, the MD-88 has a rounded aft point, while the MD-90 has a "pointy" aft point. I could have said that more artfully, but the subtle difference remains.
 
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b727fa
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:42 pm

The 88 tail is rounded on top and the 90/717 tails are flat.
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:55 pm

What about the passenger comfort? AA's MD80/83 is famous for noise and vibration at the last 2-3 rows from where passengers can see the engine. MD88 (and B717) seems to have the same engine visibility while the MD90 engine is behind the last row. Wonder how the noise level is at the last rows for MD88/90 (and B717, too), compared to 80/83.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:14 pm

727tiger wrote:
KGRB wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Actually the MD-81/82/83/87/88 (along with the DC-9-30/40/50 and 717) have one window between exits, while the MD-90 has two. See below.
Image
MD-88

Image
MD-90


And if you look at the top of each respective vertical stabilizer, the MD-88 has a rounded aft point, while the MD-90 has a "pointy" aft point. I could have said that more artfully, but the subtle difference remains.


I tried to say the same thing, but obviously I failed. People thought I was talking about the tailcone :).
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FSDan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:19 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
What about the passenger comfort? AA's MD80/83 is famous for noise and vibration at the last 2-3 rows from where passengers can see the engine. MD88 (and B717) seems to have the same engine visibility while the MD90 engine is behind the last row. Wonder how the noise level is at the last rows for MD88/90 (and B717, too), compared to 80/83.


MD-90s are quieter than MD-88s overall (very noticeable when watching them takeoff) due to the updated engines. From my experience riding on both, I think the MD-90 is more fun on takeoff. The engines really provide a lot of thrust right after rotation, and it feels more rocket-like than the MD-88. The seats on most MD-90s are newer than on the MD-88s and therefore less worn, but they are also slightly harder as they are the new slimline variety.
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slcguy
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:29 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
What about the passenger comfort? AA's MD80/83 is famous for noise and vibration at the last 2-3 rows from where passengers can see the engine. MD88 (and B717) seems to have the same engine visibility while the MD90 engine is behind the last row. Wonder how the noise level is at the last rows for MD88/90 (and B717, too), compared to 80/83.


The pics above are a bit misleading, the MD-80 and MD-90 both have the rear door on the left and seating all the way back on the right. The B717 and older DC-9s have seating all the way back on both sides. So basically, they are all loud in the last few rows with the B717 and MD-90 probably being the quietest with the MD-80 next and old DC-9s with that loud throbbing hum being something only us old av-geeks can appreciate! My first ride on a jet was a DC-9-10 seated in the last row back in 1967.

By the way, contrary to popular belief there is little difference between the MD-88 and the other MD-80s. The MD-88 is a MD-82 with some cockpit upgrades. Kind of like seeing the term "new and improved" product on the supermarket shelf.
Last edited by slcguy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:31 pm

One photo that will answer some of your questions:

 
FlyUSAir
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:50 pm

Can pilots fly the MD88/MD90/717 along with FA's working on them or are they in separate categories?
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intotheair
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:19 pm

I just squint and guess that if it looks long, it's an MD-90. Of course, I may be more of the mindset of my old timer dad who just calls them all "DC-9s."
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richcam427
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:04 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Can pilots fly the MD88/MD90/717 along with FA's working on them or are they in separate categories?


The MD-88 and MD-90 share the same pool of pilots due to commonality, but the 717 is different.
 
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MD80
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:18 pm

B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


The MD-80 has one window between the over-wing exits. The MD-90 has two windows between these hatches.

In case on interest, here is a page made by me (in German) about the hatches of the MD-80: https://www.md-80.com/mcdonnell-douglas-md-80/technik-der-md-80/notausstiege/



Regards
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
fly4ever78
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:24 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Can pilots fly the MD88/MD90/717 along with FA's working on them or are they in separate categories?


The 717 has an MD-11 type cockpit and is completely different than the MD88/90. The only things common in the 717 cockpit are the leaky windows, the eyebrow windows and the jumpseat is the same as in the MD90.

Another couple of things: They are replacing the logo lights and red beacons with VERY bright LED versions. The MD88/90 has aft air stairs; the 717 does not. The MD90 has the same engines as the airbus, just mounted at a different angle. The MD90 has a different engine pylon design. Aerodynamically, the MD90 tends to porpoise up and down slightly in cruise because of the extended length.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:24 pm

FSDan wrote:
MD-90s are quieter than MD-88s overall (very noticeable when watching them takeoff) due to the updated engines.

slcguy wrote:
The pics above are a bit misleading, the MD-80 and MD-90 both have the rear door on the left and seating all the way back on the right. The B717 and older DC-9s have seating all the way back on both sides. So basically, they are all loud in the last few rows with the B717 and MD-90 probably being the quietest with the MD-80 next


Thanks for the answers. Then I'll hope DL retires MD88 as early as possible. While many a netters feel sad for AA's removing MD80/83, I'm honestly so happy. Sorry for not being a true av geek :)
 
jb1087xna
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:10 pm

slcguy wrote:
Internal visual: Standard DC-9 style with 5 abreast seating. Main difference the MD-88 is 3+2 seating and the MD-90 is reversed 2+3. Also the MD-90 has some sort of basic AVOD, don't think any of the 88's do.


If I'm not mistaken, the original batch of MD-90s had some sort of entertainment system (I'd assume overhead screens given the time period) that was removed at some point. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any of them have any kind of that now, just power at some seats towards the front of the plane and WiFi.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:38 pm

Interestingly I learned recently the MD88/90 and CS100 have almost identical wing area size! Obviously the the CS100 is considerably lighter.

In regards to the differences the MD90s are tighter inside. The 90s have slimline seats, and opposite 2-aisle-3 configuration vs 3-aisle-2 on 88. This is especially noticeable in the back before the lavatories where the 88 has better space for congestion. The 88 also has different overhead bin doors which I think are better. The MD90 ones are flatter, less curved, and harder to close around large bags I think...
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:57 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the original batch of MD-90s had some sort of entertainment system (I'd assume overhead screens given the time period) that was removed at some point. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any of them have any kind of that now, just power at some seats towards the front of the plane and WiFi.


You are correct. The original 16 had overhead video which was removed in about 2010 when the interiors were refurbished. It's just streaming IFE now.
 
Delta757MD88
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:17 pm

LONG LIVE THE MD-88!!! Gotta love the sometimes rocket style takeoffs.
 
hobbseltoff
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:48 pm

The majority of of Delta's MD-90s do not have GPS and file /Z which makes them the same as the MD-88s as far as navigation performance is concerned. N937DN through N952DN however are ex-JAL aircraft and do have GPS installed which lets them file /L and lets them do things like fly RNP approaches and fly longer distances between fixes on flight plans.
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:42 am

Here is a rather fun MD-90 Promo Video that shows some of the cabin features that McDonnell Douglas likely hoped to market to purchasing airlines. I like the remote controlled cabin divider curtain, although I imagine that any airline that ordered that feature would have lost the remote within the first few days of operation....lol..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl4dKpCJfGQ&t=181s
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wjcandee
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:52 am

fly4ever78 wrote:
The 717 has an MD-11 type cockpit and is completely different than the MD88/90. The only things common in the 717 cockpit are the leaky windows, the eyebrow windows and the jumpseat is the same as in the MD90.


And the dental mirror to view the whiskey compass.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:13 am

727tiger wrote:
KGRB wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Actually the MD-81/82/83/87/88 (along with the DC-9-30/40/50 and 717) have one window between exits, while the MD-90 has two. See below.
Image
MD-88

Image
MD-90


And if you look at the top of each respective vertical stabilizer, the MD-88 has a rounded aft point, while the MD-90 has a "pointy" aft point. I could have said that more artfully, but the subtle difference remains.


All MD-88 came with the screwdriver tail.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:17 am

rbavfan wrote:
727tiger wrote:

And if you look at the top of each respective vertical stabilizer, the MD-88 has a rounded aft point, while the MD-90 has a "pointy" aft point. I could have said that more artfully, but the subtle difference remains.


All MD-88 came with the screwdriver tail.

They are referring to the top of the tail, not the bottom. And there is a difference between the MD-88 and the MD-90.
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FlyUSAir
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:59 pm

richcam427 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Can pilots fly the MD88/MD90/717 along with FA's working on them or are they in separate categories?


The MD-88 and MD-90 share the same pool of pilots due to commonality, but the 717 is different.



fly4ever78 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Can pilots fly the MD88/MD90/717 along with FA's working on them or are they in separate categories?


The 717 has an MD-11 type cockpit and is completely different than the MD88/90. The only things common in the 717 cockpit are the leaky windows, the eyebrow windows and the jumpseat is the same as in the MD90.

Another couple of things: They are replacing the logo lights and red beacons with VERY bright LED versions. The MD88/90 has aft air stairs; the 717 does not. The MD90 has the same engines as the airbus, just mounted at a different angle. The MD90 has a different engine pylon design. Aerodynamically, the MD90 tends to porpoise up and down slightly in cruise because of the extended length.


Thanks guys! Was curious.
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trnswrld
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:30 pm

BAeRJ100 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.


Not entirely. I know early MD-80s had the DC-9 style tailcone that you described, but if I recall correctly it changed from the MD-87 onwards and was available as a retrofit for older models.

EDIT: Polot clearly had the same idea :)


Polot wrote:
FSDan wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
Visually, other than the obvious feature of having different engines, the MD-90 has a window between the over-wing exits, the MD-88 does not. That makes them easy to distinguish from a distance.


Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.

Both the DL MD-88 and MD-90s have screwdriver tail cones. I'm pretty sure the screwdriver was standard on the MD-88, but it was certainly available for retrofit on the MD-80 series.


I think both of you guys misinterpreted his post. He is not talking about the tailcone, he is talking about the vertical stabilizer which has the much different top rear section. The 717, MD87, and MD90 have the sharp pointed tail where as all MD80 and DC9 have the rounded rear top section. As far as the tail come yes you guys are correct about the "screwdriver" version compared to the rounded one.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:44 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
Thanks for the answers. Then I'll hope DL retires MD88 as early as possible. While many a netters feel sad for AA's removing MD80/83, I'm honestly so happy. Sorry for not being a true av geek :)


Why!?! Kinda weird coming from a person on an aviation site lol. IMO these are the kinda planes that we as aviation enthusiasts need to embrace for as long as we can. The days of rear mounted engines, T-tail, Pratt JT8D powered jets are numbered for your run of the mill A320/737 style aircraft. Which are excellent and very efficient aircraft, I get that, but one day in the not too distant future flying just won't be quite as interesting or fun.
 
tjerome
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:21 pm

longhauler wrote:
Internally, the biggest difference was that while 2x3 in Economy, the bank of three seats was on the left side on the MD-88, while on the right side on the MD-90.

This allowed a larger rear galley on the MD-88 during a time when service sold seats and DL was slightly ahead of the pack with regard to cabin service. When the MD-90s came along, service was less of an issue, a smaller galley would be sufficient, and the bank of three seats was on the right side of the aircraft.


Thanks for providing that, I always wondered why the -88s were 3-2 vs. the 90/717/AA's 80s were 2-3.

FlyUSAir wrote:
Can pilots fly the MD88/MD90/717 along with FA's working on them or are they in separate categories?


As mentioned before for pilots the 88/90 are common type, and the 717 is a different group. For FAs at Delta, all FAs are trained on all aircraft types.
 
FB330
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:45 pm

Thanks for your excellent replies all - much appreciated.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:56 pm

Another large difference is the electrical generation systems. The MD80 uses the older CSD/Gen mounted on the engine gearbox just like the 727. TheMD90 has a VSCF system.. A generator mounted on the engine produces at a variable frequency due to the changes in engine RPM. This power is sent to a converter unit and transformer that converts this power to a constant frequency that the aircraft can use, 400 hz. An Electrical Power Control Unit is the brains of the system. It ensures the system runs smoothly and records any faults. The noticeable outward indication of this system are the two inlet ducts on the right side of the fuselage. One in the nose the other in the fwd cargo area. These are to cool the transformers.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:19 pm

trnswrld wrote:
BAeRJ100 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.


Not entirely. I know early MD-80s had the DC-9 style tailcone that you described, but if I recall correctly it changed from the MD-87 onwards and was available as a retrofit for older models.

EDIT: Polot clearly had the same idea :)


Polot wrote:
FSDan wrote:

Also the tail of the MD-90 (as well as the 717) comes to a point at the back, whereas it is curved on the MD-88. This is the most obvious visual difference for me.

Both the DL MD-88 and MD-90s have screwdriver tail cones. I'm pretty sure the screwdriver was standard on the MD-88, but it was certainly available for retrofit on the MD-80 series.


I think both of you guys misinterpreted his post. He is not talking about the tailcone, he is talking about the vertical stabilizer which has the much different top rear section. The 717, MD87, and MD90 have the sharp pointed tail where as all MD80 and DC9 have the rounded rear top section. As far as the tail come yes you guys are correct about the "screwdriver" version compared to the rounded one.

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767333ER
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:12 pm

The MD-90 has an extra set elevators on the engine pylons which all other variants of the DC-9 platform do not have.
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PC12Fan
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:58 pm

767333ER wrote:
The MD-90 has an extra set elevators on the engine pylons which all other variants of the DC-9 platform do not have.


Here I was thinking "there's something else I know is different but can't remember what it is". Thanks for the reminder!

I'm an "average" fan of the MD-8X but I just love the Mad Dog 90. Would have been a workhorse in my TWA fantasy fleet. :bigthumbsup:

EDIT: a little side by side takeoff comparison. Not all that dramatic, but I think it fits the bill with this post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-S-rAxuM8
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TrijetsRMissed
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Re: Delta MD88 v MD90 Thread

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:05 am

Some additional MD-90 enhancements include:

- Hydraulically assisted pitch control
- FADEC
- Carbon brakes with digital anti skid
- Improved de-icing and fuel warming systems
- Vacuum lavs
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