jbs2886
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Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:01 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -southwest

“We’re keeping both for sure. We love Love Field,” Ben Minicucci, Alaska’s president and Virgin America’s chief executive officer, said in an interview Wednesday.

Virgin America’s current nonstop routes from Dallas to New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington may change, Minicucci said.
 
RockIsland41
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:08 pm

"We're keeping both for sure" -------for the time being. Suspect AS will try to eventually consolidate at DAL, depending on other factors.
 
grbauc
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:08 pm

Thanks Great to have the Question that's been asked a million time on here answered. Not sure why they would drop it but if they did to consolidate at DFW there chances of getting back in to Luv would be almost nil. So keeping it does seem like the right move. AS is in expand mode and I think it a good play keep both. Make some noise AS and keep building in the West Coast we need the competition.
 
grbauc
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:10 pm

RockIsland41 wrote:
"We're keeping both for sure" -------for the time being. Suspect AS will try to eventually consolidate at DAL, depending on other factors.


Why would they not want some feed into there US domestic partner at DFW.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:10 pm

RockIsland41 wrote:
"We're keeping both for sure" -------for the time being. Suspect AS will try to eventually consolidate at DAL, depending on other factors.


I think they will keep a presence at DFW largely to connect onto AA flights (of course, they will have to take AS to DFW, but then take AA).
 
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enilria
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:17 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-05/alaska-will-keep-gates-at-dallas-airport-dominated-by-southwest

“We’re keeping both for sure. We love Love Field,” Ben Minicucci, Alaska’s president and Virgin America’s chief executive officer, said in an interview Wednesday.

Virgin America’s current nonstop routes from Dallas to New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington may change, Minicucci said.

While I am surprised they are staying, I still would take this as telegraphing LGA/DCA go away. It will be VERY interesting where the LGA/DCA slots go. I suspect SEA/SAN/PDX will replace LGA/DCA at DAL.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:24 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
RockIsland41 wrote:
"We're keeping both for sure" -------for the time being. Suspect AS will try to eventually consolidate at DAL, depending on other factors.


I think they will keep a presence at DFW largely to connect onto AA flights (of course, they will have to take AS to DFW, but then take AA).

And Alaska Lounge (formerly Boardroom) members can use the Admirals Club at DFW.

My thought is that DAL would continue to work for Dallas origin/destination passengers in markets that would fill the flight without a feed at that end. So that may involve fiddling with the schedule. Whatever currently works well for VX, but replace anything with a low load factor.

Question: are DAL and DFW considered the same for the DOT requirement blocking AA/AS hub to hub codeshares? Or could AA codeshare on AS out of DAL to AS and AA hubs? That would change the landscape a bit.
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toltommy
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:28 pm

The recent agreement AS agreed to in order to close the VX deal put some restrictions on codesharing with AA. But it says that AA and AS cannot codeshare on routes where VX and AA compete. Are DAL/DFW coterminals like JFK/LGA? If not, AA could use the AS feed from DAL to the west coast, focusing on O&D traffic. This would put AA back at DAL, but gets around the restrictions in the deal AS entered with the DOJ.
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commavia
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:49 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
I think they will keep a presence at DFW largely to connect onto AA flights (of course, they will have to take AS to DFW, but then take AA).


Agree, especially since - with the Delta codeshare ending in a matter of weeks - DFW will now become an even more critical transfer point for Alaska to connect passengers onto AA flights to/from the eastern and southeastern U.S. I may well be proven wrong, but I can't imagine Alaska exiting DFW completely.

enilria wrote:
I still would take this as telegraphing LGA/DCA go away.


It's hard to read Alaska's intentions, but I would tend to agree. It will be very interesting to see how this all shapes up.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:56 pm

In another thread, didn't a reputable source hint at E175s coming to DAL? AS has never been afraid to operate p2p routes from the likes of BOI, PSP and TUS, so it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them try DAL from places like those. AS could even attempt to fully utilize its gates on the weekends with services to popular destinations like BZN and HDN (when there is less demand for business destinations). In addition to PSP, there are the places WN doesn't serve at all - think COS, FAT, SBA, etc. - that AS could try from DAL. After all, we are talking about an airline that has a real knack for exploiting niche opportunities in previously unserved/underserved realms. I do think DAL-DCA/LAS/LGA are gone though. MSP has been frequently mentioned as a possible way to serve DCA and LGA; perhaps that's why the airline has been so quick to link this market with California?
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commavia
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:58 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
In another thread, didn't a reputable source hint at E175s coming to DAL? AS has never been afraid to operate p2p routes from the likes of BOI, PSP and TUS, so it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them try DAL from places like those. AS could even attempt to fully utilize its gates on the weekends with services to popular destinations like BZN and HDN (when there is less demand for business destinations). In addition to PSP, there are the places WN doesn't serve at all - think COS, FAT, SBA, etc. - that AS could try from DAL. After all, we are talking about an airline that has a real knack for exploiting niche opportunities in previously unserved/underserved realms.


That would completely shock me. Those markets are all relatively small, and all of them are dominated by AA. I think far more likely is Alaska operating a "traditional" schedule from DAL to its major hubs and focus cities.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:20 pm

enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-05/alaska-will-keep-gates-at-dallas-airport-dominated-by-southwest

“We’re keeping both for sure. We love Love Field,” Ben Minicucci, Alaska’s president and Virgin America’s chief executive officer, said in an interview Wednesday.

Virgin America’s current nonstop routes from Dallas to New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington may change, Minicucci said.

While I am surprised they are staying, I still would take this as telegraphing LGA/DCA go away. It will be VERY interesting where the LGA/DCA slots go. I suspect SEA/SAN/PDX will replace LGA/DCA at DAL.


Absolutely no one is surprised you are surprised. :lol: I agree, however, that LGA and DCA may go (but where can those slots be used? maybe sold for other slots?). I'm not confident LAS would remain, either, as it really isn't that big of an AS station. Definitely SEA/SAN/PDX though.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:22 pm

Don't know what flights will be added/dropped, but glad to see they plan on keeping DAL.
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:30 pm

If they dump LGA/DCA ex-DAL and move those slots elsewhere, DAL would be a good base to operate more West Coast markets from an O&D standpoint, plus connections out West. AS could still feed DFW and get the local DAL traffic, but LGA/DCA have to go from DAL.
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deltaffindfw
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:31 pm

I can easily see why they would keep it. For those that live on the east side of DFW, you can fly Alaska from DAL and still get AA miles and EQMs. They might be able to pull some elites from driving to DFW.
 
grbauc
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:10 am

commavia wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
In another thread, didn't a reputable source hint at E175s coming to DAL? AS has never been afraid to operate p2p routes from the likes of BOI, PSP and TUS, so it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them try DAL from places like those. AS could even attempt to fully utilize its gates on the weekends with services to popular destinations like BZN and HDN (when there is less demand for business destinations). In addition to PSP, there are the places WN doesn't serve at all - think COS, FAT, SBA, etc. - that AS could try from DAL. After all, we are talking about an airline that has a real knack for exploiting niche opportunities in previously unserved/underserved realms.


That would completely shock me. Those markets are all relatively small, and all of them are dominated by AA. I think far more likely is Alaska operating a "traditional" schedule from DAL to its major hubs and focus cities.



:bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:
 
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par13del
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:38 am

So no one believes that AA will put pressure on AS to "abandon" DAL in favour of DFW? I always thought that AA and the city of DFW wanted no one at DAL not just WN.
 
flyguy84
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:43 am

It's all posturing. I don't expect them to keep both, they'll consolidate at DFW. The carrier simply isn't big enough in the DFW market to run dual operations.
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dbo861
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:44 am

par13del wrote:
So no one believes that AA will put pressure on AS to "abandon" DAL in favour of DFW? I always thought that AA and the city of DFW wanted no one at DAL not just WN.


Which is worse for AA: VX/AS keeping a minimal presence at DAL, or risk WN getting two more gates making their DAL hub even stronger potentially adding 18-20 more daily flights?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:49 am

flyguy84 wrote:
It's all posturing. I don't expect them to keep both, they'll consolidate at DFW. The carrier simply isn't big enough in the DFW market to run dual operations.


AS runs many cities at 1x daily. Dual operations in Dallas isn't a big deal.
 
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:09 am

jbs2886 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
It's all posturing. I don't expect them to keep both, they'll consolidate at DFW. The carrier simply isn't big enough in the DFW market to run dual operations.


AS runs many cities at 1x daily. Dual operations in Dallas isn't a big deal.


Indeed. And if AS were to drop DAL - LGA/DCA the most obvious use for them is not to not use them at all and lease them to AA. That helps AA in markets it is already strong in and provides AS with some low risk recurring cash.
 
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:10 am

flyguy84 wrote:
It's all posturing.


It's not; the conspiracy theories can stop. DAL is here to stay.

And since the news is finally public, this mirrors exactly what Ben Minicucci said to me a few months back when we were discussing DAL and what that would look like going forward. The plans are to keep DAL, but the revenue management and network planning folks are going to be doing some tinkering with it.

At present, gates at DAL represent the most difficult-to-obtain real estate in all of commercial aviation; AS was never going to just walk away from that.
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phluser
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:39 am

enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-05/alaska-will-keep-gates-at-dallas-airport-dominated-by-southwest

“We’re keeping both for sure. We love Love Field,” Ben Minicucci, Alaska’s president and Virgin America’s chief executive officer, said in an interview Wednesday.

Virgin America’s current nonstop routes from Dallas to New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington may change, Minicucci said.

While I am surprised they are staying, I still would take this as telegraphing LGA/DCA go away. It will be VERY interesting where the LGA/DCA slots go. I suspect SEA/SAN/PDX will replace LGA/DCA at DAL.


DAL-SAN makes a lot of sense. However, for SEA, I just don't know if it's a great idea running 3x SEA-DFW and 1x SEA-DAL. AS might as well do 4x SEA-DFW, from a frequency perspective, and just put new market service at DAL. Maybe all of SEA moves to DAL, or all of PDX. But better all of it than split, or SEA/PDX stay with DFW, while new markets are to DAL.

WN can get away with 1x STL-SFO, 1x STL-OAK since it has a hub at STL and STL isn't as competitive. AS will still have to compete on schedule for SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX/SAN to DAL.

As far as LGA/DCA, I liked the idea of MSP. But might it be far fetched to suggest that AS sell it's DCA slots? It seems that B6 and WN aren't selling really high fares on their DCA flights and those DCA slots are over-rated for their cost. LGA slots are different as New York region is much more populated, and there is no BWI equivalent there.
 
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enilria
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:41 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Absolutely no one is surprised you are surprised. :lol: I agree, however, that LGA and DCA may go (but where can those slots be used? maybe sold for other slots?). I'm not confident LAS would remain, either, as it really isn't that big of an AS station. Definitely SEA/SAN/PDX though.

LAS is a destination so it doesn't really matter whether it is a big station. The traffic on a route like that is 90% POS DAL. I think if it goes it will be because it is low yield. Still, they have to use both gates enough to hold them.

Well with LGA/DCA you get into the web of possibly conflicting comments from AS management. AS has said repeatedly that greater access to LGA/DCA was one of the two top reasons for the purchase. That makes it hard to sell the slots. They can't trade them for beyond perimeter, so they either have to add something like DCA/LGA-MSP/DTW/CMH/IND/MKE-SEA/PDX or keep them at DAL where they are bleeding or sell/lease them. Other people have said they can only sell/lease them to another LCC. Not sure that is true, but that would definitely cut the price they would get with fewer players.

I still find it hard to believe they will keep DAL, but I guess this makes it hard to change their mind.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:07 am

toltommy wrote:
The recent agreement AS agreed to in order to close the VX deal put some restrictions on codesharing with AA. But it says that AA and AS cannot codeshare on routes where VX and AA compete. Are DAL/DFW coterminals like JFK/LGA? If not, AA could use the AS feed from DAL to the west coast, focusing on O&D traffic. This would put AA back at DAL, but gets around the restrictions in the deal AS entered with the DOJ.


This is an interesting question.. I know when US bought AA the US executives were a bit disappointed they'd be losing their gates at DAL as they wanted to use it differently than AA had been using it. Instead of what AA had been doing, they wanted to connect into other AA hubs so people would have more 1 stop options. (If you're going to some small northeast town say BGM, instead of flying DFW-PHL-BGM, you'd fly DAL-PHL-BGM and only have to deal with the smaller airport, that might be closer to your house.) (While writing this I realized BGM no longer has service from AA, which makes me said because I used to fly US mainline into that airport. That being said the point holds.)

One of the theories I've put out there is that AS would serve AA's hubs from DAL. They're already all big cities. They might pick up some feed from AA code shares. Finally, passengers could earn AA miles on them.

This all presumes though that DAL/DFW are not coterminals for the purposes of AS's agreement with the DOJ for the VX merger.
 
TransGlobalGold
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:27 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
If they dump LGA/DCA ex-DAL and move those slots elsewhere, DAL would be a good base to operate more West Coast markets from an O&D standpoint, plus connections out West. AS could still feed DFW and get the local DAL traffic, but LGA/DCA have to go from DAL.


Where would they move the slots to? Can they be moved to DFW? That would make sense and let DAL fly more to the west. I can't imagine they would abandon LGA/DCA completely.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:35 am

There are 18 DFW-LGA flights for a date I picked in June: mostly AA, with some DLx and 1 NK. Yes, the AA's have feed, but it shows that the D-FW market to NY must be strong enough to support a couple of DAL-LGA trips. What's not working there?
Perhaps AS could try SAN-DAL-LGA and/or LAX-DAL-LGA as a reliable 1-stop option for SAN/LAX-LGA folks, capturing a market that is out in the cold due to the LGA perimeter rule. Important to sell it as a 1-stop through flight for higher marketing presence when folks are shopping through travel websites. Not non-stop, but not forcing a connection either, and avoiding JFK. Local traffic would avoid DFW and be close to downtown Dallas. It would fill up the seats that DAL isn't alone. SEA/PDX via DAL to LGA is an out of the way route geographically, at a disadvantage to 1-stops or connections over a more northerly route. So what other markets might work with the bounce in DAL?
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freakyrat
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:55 am

flyguy84 wrote:
It's all posturing. I don't expect them to keep both, they'll consolidate at DFW. The carrier simply isn't big enough in the DFW market to run dual operations.


While waiting to fly on a United flight oprating out of the satellite gates of Terminal E at DFW a few weeks ago I talked to a person in DFW airport management about the merger and he said that they do not have gate space at DFW terminal E to move the 14 daily Virgin America flights back to DFW and meet Virgin's specifications.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:16 am

Looking forward to seeing if SEA and PDX gain a flight to DAL. Did I read that the VX gates at DAL can only handle a couple of more departures per day?
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:32 am

All this means for DL is one gate only. They've got to be pissed. In fact, I wonder if AS is keeping the flights simply to keep DL from expanding at DAL as they wanted. That means WN can't complain about DL "squatting" anymore.
 
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:47 am

USAirKid wrote:
One of the theories I've put out there is that AS would serve AA's hubs from DAL. They're already all big cities. They might pick up some feed from AA code shares. Finally, passengers could earn AA miles on them.

This all presumes though that DAL/DFW are not coterminals for the purposes of AS's agreement with the DOJ for the VX merger.


The final order from DOJ identifies both DAL and DFW as "Key AA Airports" under the proposed final agreement, which can be found here:

https://www.justice.gov/atr/case-document/file/915971/download
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:15 am

enilria wrote:
I still find it hard to believe they will keep DAL, but I guess this makes it hard to change their mind.


I think that's called having your cake and eating it too. From your statement, if AS bolts, you were right, and if AS stays - well, they had to in order to save face. Pretty convenient.

par13del wrote:
So no one believes that AA will put pressure on AS to "abandon" DAL in favour of DFW? I always thought that AA and the city of DFW wanted no one at DAL not just WN.


How? They are going up against Alaska in their markets too. That could start getting a bit messy if they start doing the tit-for-tat thing.
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flyiguy
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:09 am

I had a talk with my friend at AS and she stated they have intended to stay at DAL for O&D but look for a shift in capacity to SkyWest E-175's while mainline metal will maintain DFW presence for AA codeshare and connections.

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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:20 am

flyiguy wrote:
I had a talk with my friend at AS and she stated they have intended to stay at DAL for O&D but look for a shift in capacity to SkyWest E-175's while mainline metal will maintain DFW presence for AA codeshare and connections.

FLY


I would imagine the turnaround time for an E175 will be significantly less than an A320 so they should be able to get more turns per gate. If they are going for O&D mostly then they also don't have to worry about connections - they can just turn and burn.
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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
seatback
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:34 pm

flyiguy wrote:
I had a talk with my friend at AS and she stated they have intended to stay at DAL for O&D but look for a shift in capacity to SkyWest E-175's while mainline metal will maintain DFW presence for AA codeshare and connections.

FLY


So if this is the case, I assume they won't need all the space (10 flights per gate). Running 20 flights to PDX, SEA, and SAN will never work. Do you think Delta can make a move here?? Too bad they burned their AS.
 
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Polot
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:51 pm

par13del wrote:
So no one believes that AA will put pressure on AS to "abandon" DAL in favour of DFW? I always thought that AA and the city of DFW wanted no one at DAL not just WN.

The "having no one at DAL" ship sailed long along. Now all AA cares about is restricting and minimizing WN's impact on their DFW hub. Making sure two of the gates are in an ally's hands (thereby locking out DL, and thus restricting WN who currently has to accommodate DL) is a good thing for AA. Abandoning the gates increases the risk that WN can expand.

Sydscott wrote:
Indeed. And if AS were to drop DAL - LGA/DCA the most obvious use for them is not to not use them at all and lease them to AA. That helps AA in markets it is already strong in and provides AS with some low risk recurring cash.

VX actually got the LGA and DCA slots (and DAL gates for that matter) as a result of forced divestitures from the US/AA merge. I doubt AA leasing the slots from AS would get approved. WN, B6, NK and F9 would all complain.
Wingtips56 wrote:
Perhaps AS could try SAN-DAL-LGA and/or LAX-DAL-LGA as a reliable 1-stop option for SAN/LAX-LGA folks, capturing a market that is out in the cold due to the LGA perimeter rule. Important to sell it as a 1-stop through flight for higher marketing presence when folks are shopping through travel websites. Not non-stop, but not forcing a connection either, and avoiding JFK.

It is not like JFK is that much further away from the heart of NYC than LGA, especially as LGA is an absolute mess right now due to the construction. Heading over to JFK and taking the nonstop JFK-XXX flight would still be faster than LGA-DAL-XXX.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:02 pm

Polot wrote:
It is not like JFK is that much further away from the heart of NYC than LGA, especially as LGA is an absolute mess right now due to the construction. Heading over to JFK and taking the nonstop JFK-XXX flight would still be faster than LGA-DAL-XXX.

Yep, it's 25 minutes from downtown/midtown to JFK by cab when there is no traffic and about 45 min to an hour during workday traffic. CTB is at best 25 minutes faster at the moment by cab and probably realistically it's closer to 10 to 15 minutes when we factor in the current construction effort at LGA. And the delta and jetblue terminal at jfk looks like Changhi airport compares to that dump that is LGA CTB.

The idea that LGA to LAX/SAN/SFO/SEA with one stop in the middle of the country is preferred over non-stop from JFK is very far-fetched. Especially now there are lie flat options to all these places from JFK by early 2018.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:03 pm

TransGlobalGold wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
If they dump LGA/DCA ex-DAL and move those slots elsewhere, DAL would be a good base to operate more West Coast markets from an O&D standpoint, plus connections out West. AS could still feed DFW and get the local DAL traffic, but LGA/DCA have to go from DAL.


Where would they move the slots to? Can they be moved to DFW? That would make sense and let DAL fly more to the west. I can't imagine they would abandon LGA/DCA completely.


It depends on what markets they want to connect to DCA/LGA. If its SEA/PDX they could split the slots and do 2X LGA/DCA-MKE and on to SEA/PDX and the other slots could go through OMA. If its the California stations, MCI/STL could be the stops. Pure speculation of course.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:03 pm

With recent additions by AS at MSP (SAN, SFO), bringing the number of cities out of MSP to four, any chance of a MSP-DAL flight? WN has seemed reluctant to add it when it would likely be successful at 1-2x daily.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:57 pm

why wouldnt thet consolidate at DAL?

Makes the most sense.

What are they feeding at DFW? nothing.

Small operation from a LCC has an advantage at the close in airport.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:15 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
why wouldnt thet consolidate at DAL?


Because they view DAL and DFW as being two distinctly different markets and plan to run them as such.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:19 pm

seatback wrote:
Do you think Delta can make a move here??


Nope. DL will get a DAL gate from AS when airborne pigs are seeing merrily cruising along the frozen landscape of Hell.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
phluser
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:47 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
why wouldnt thet consolidate at DAL?


Because they view DAL and DFW as being two distinctly different markets and plan to run them as such.


It's probably more because AS will be constrained for growth at DAL, than the two being distinctly different. AS might not want to state a negative point about DAL while keeping DAL for what values it for in it's network.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:00 pm

deltaffindfw wrote:
I can easily see why they would keep it. For those that live on the east side of DFW, you can fly Alaska from DAL and still get AA miles and EQMs. They might be able to pull some elites from driving to DFW.


Unfortunately, unless it's an AA flight number, the EQM earn at a reduced rate :-(
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:44 pm

As I posted recently on another of the MANY AAG threads on this board (I have no idea which one!) I would expect the carrier might get about 7-8 turns per day per gate at DAL -- let's say 15 total daily departures.

I see no reason they won't keep LA &SF about the same as VX currently offers, let's say 5 total to those 2 w/c AS hubs. Regarding the PNW, judging by existing DFW service and WN service already in place to both SEA & PDX, I'd guess a total of 3 flights to those 2 hubs. I can't help but think they will maintain connections with both LGA & DCA -- if for no other reason, to run some direct flights to the w/c -- so my thinking is a total of 3 departures to the e/c. I would then go with 2x flights to SAN, one to SNA (if a slot is available) and perhaps one to SJC. Plus or minus, I could see something like that schedule being viable.

Also, it's obvious that AS is planning something besides what's already been announced at MSP, MCI and ABQ, so I'm maintaining that DCA & LGA will have the "left-over" slots from DAL show up in some of those cities. (And, I wonder, could ABQ see a DAL flight?)

I trust the reliable sources (and YOU know who you are) who have been suggesting for a while now that AAG was going to remain at Love Field. I'm glad to see that it's now official (from Ben) and the way AAG is galloping ahead these days, I would expect to see some of the DAL changes yet this year! (Those gaps mentioned above have to be dealt with probably with the start-dates of the already announced service such as MSP (SFO starts 7/18 and SAN starts 11/18) MCI (SFO starts 9/18) and ABQ (SAN begins 10/18.) And just to be thorough, there is a gap at SAN with the MSP service that starts 11/18 which could certainly be filled with a nice DAL r/t.

Stay tuned!!!!

bb
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:47 pm

SANFan wrote:
As I posted recently on another of the MANY AAG threads on this board (I have no idea which one!) I would expect the carrier might get about 7-8 turns per day per gate at DAL -- let's say 15 total daily departures.


If they switch over to the E175 for most/all of the flights, I see no reason why they couldn't get more turns than that out of those gates. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
flyingcat
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:04 pm

Can AS/VX trade/deal the LGA and DCA slots to a carrier with the best offer? Originally I would have expected VX to angle for more JFK or EWR slots, now as a combined company without a premium lie flat I have no clue what they may want.
ORD gate?
cash only?
SAN gate?
 
Passedv1
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:33 pm

What is the real deal with the lie flat product? You come on A.N and the lack of a lie-flat product precludes someone from competing on a trans-con. You don't have lie-flat...don't even bother.

You listen to AS upper management and they say that passengers (at least their pax) prefer a traditional FC with a generous upgrade policy to a lie-flat product with no chance for upgrade except for the most elite of travelers. How important are those lie-flat passengers to the profitability of a route?
 
Money4Nothing
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:00 pm

I am one of the FF on AS that the AS management refers to ..flying Sea Ewr right now, fly 14-15 transcons out of Seattle each year on AS..AS management is exactly right how I feel ..can fly F anywhere from $600 to $1,000 RT transcon depending on route/upgrades....every 4-5 times have to pay actual F
love the way it works , only miss lie flat on FLL-SEA legs , otherwise happy with new F cabins. will jump all over the Norwegian premium cabin starting September for my SEA-London trips same reasoning + hope AS hooks up with Norwegian...paying J anymore on BA or Delta/VS is a rip off for the medicority one gets at both now.
 
flyingcat
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Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:01 pm

Passedv1 wrote:
What is the real deal with the lie flat product? You come on A.N and the lack of a lie-flat product precludes someone from competing on a trans-con. You don't have lie-flat...don't even bother.

You listen to AS upper management and they say that passengers (at least their pax) prefer a traditional FC with a generous upgrade policy to a lie-flat product with no chance for upgrade except for the most elite of travelers. How important are those lie-flat passengers to the profitability of a route?


It is extremely important for the corporate paid First class market which demands lie flat and will exclude carriers if they don't have a competitive product. I'm not saying that they can't fly these markets but that to the old VX gaining additional frequency was paramount as their model needed high share of a premium market. Alaska would not be able to generate the same yield on this type of route which is why they have a higher mix of mid and short haul routes with a lower mix of First.

I would actually no longer call Alaska's FC traditional, it is an outlier in the longhaul transcon market. Legacy complimentary upgrades are getting more rare, as cabin density increases and minimum revenue goals are decreasing the amount of elites.

The economics and priorities of Alaska's network are a whole different case as are what they would be willing to trade DCA/LGA slots for.

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