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lesfalls
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Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:40 pm

Norwegian has criticized the Spanish government for the new Spain-Russia bilateral agreement signed earlier this year as flights can only orginate from MAD to Japan:

http://ch-aviation.com/portal/news/5493 ... o-hampered

Your thoughts? Surprises me why they don't start OSL-TYO first as they have sort of fixed the biliteral problem between Russia and Norway.
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TheGeordielad
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:44 pm

I think it's unlucky for Norwegian but mainly for the passengers as this route has good demand.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:01 pm

And they can't operate this flight out of Madrid? I know Madrid is no base for them, but they can do it with Barcelona based aircraft. Just fly Barcelona - Madrid - Tokyo - Madrid - Barcelona. After all Barcelona - Madrid is a very busy route with a huge demand so flying it with a bigger aircraft won't hurt them.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:35 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
And they can't operate this flight out of Madrid? I know Madrid is no base for them, but they can do it with Barcelona based aircraft. Just fly Barcelona - Madrid - Tokyo - Madrid - Barcelona. After all Barcelona - Madrid is a very busy route with a huge demand so flying it with a bigger aircraft won't hurt them.

Norwegian does have a base at Madrid but I'm guessing you mean a no base for 787s then you are correct plus I see your point of view.Why can't they operate Barcelona - Madrid - Tokyo - Madrid - Barcelona?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:41 pm

So Spain and Russia worked out only one daily Trans-Siberian flight originating from Madrid? What does this mean for other potential MAD-Asia flights? So there will be no BCN-Japan/Korea/China on any airline?
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Cunard
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:47 pm

If Norwegian do eventually fly from Spain to Tokyo they definitely wouldn't fly BCN-MAD-TOKYO it will be either direct, not at all or if the bilaterals are changed direct from either BCN or MAD.
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TheGeordielad
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:49 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
So Spain and Russia worked out only one daily Trans-Siberian flight originating from Madrid? What does this mean for other potential MAD-Asia flights? So there will be no BCN-Japan/Korea/China on any airline?

50-50. Airlines could go under Russia into Georgia,Azerbaijan,Kazakstan and Mongolia however I don't think airlines will do so.
 
Cunard
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:03 pm

That's not really very cost affective for any airline taking that long lower routing to Japan from Europe, it's either over Russian airspace for a shorter flying distance or like airlines used to do go the other way via Alaska to Japan.
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:14 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
So there will be no BCN-Japan/Korea/China on any airline?


KE is launching nonstop ICN-BCN from later this week, 3/w. CA is flying BCN-VIE-PEK right now and launching BCN-PVG from next month, 3/w.

It could be a way Spain gov protects Iberia from competitors by allowing Japanese flights out of MAD only.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:24 pm

Just wondering why Russia gets to dictate where flights between Spain and Japan originate?
 
dcajet
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:31 pm

Well, not my intention to stir the pot, but if Catalonia gets its way, this may not be a problem in the not too distant future.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 2:26 am

It seems that Norwegian has denied claims by some media that the lack of Russian rights for their possible BCN-TYO route was part of a Spanish veto.
https://twitter.com/norwegian_es/status ... 6655596544
This garnered some disputes with those media, especially with pro-independence Ara newspaper.
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 8:49 am

I know Norwegian were also planning Gatwick to Tokyo, although couldn't get overflight clearance from Russia - so launched Denver and Seattle instead.
 
VRHNM
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 9:06 am

TWA772LR wrote:
So Spain and Russia worked out only one daily Trans-Siberian flight originating from Madrid? What does this mean for other potential MAD-Asia flights? So there will be no BCN-Japan/Korea/China on any airline?


CX has been operating a 77W between HKG and MAD for some time now, 4 weekly.
 
r2rho
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 12:50 pm

It seems that Norwegian has denied claims by some media that the lack of Russian rights for their possible BCN-TYO route was part of a Spanish veto.

It's a bit more than denying, they are explicitly calling it "media manipulation" and effectively writing it off as fake news.
 
rebr
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 1:06 pm

lesfalls wrote:
as they have sort of fixed the biliteral problem between Russia and Norway.

Don't want to go off topic here, but I missed this. What has changed? Sure enough I checked and DY7201 is now flying over Russian airspace (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 01#d7edf05)
Still a bit weird turn south in the route, but at least it doesn't go all the way south of Russia anymore.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 9:28 pm

rebr wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
as they have sort of fixed the biliteral problem between Russia and Norway.

Don't want to go off topic here, but I missed this. What has changed? Sure enough I checked and DY7201 is now flying over Russian airspace (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 01#d7edf05)
Still a bit weird turn south in the route, but at least it doesn't go all the way south of Russia anymore.

The Norwegian government was able to find a resolution with the Russians but the problem still is that they are only allowed to overfly Russia from Norway as it is the companys home turf. That is what annoys Norwegian as it doesn't permit them to start other routes from Scandinavia to Asia. Thats the reason why Norwegians LGW-SIN flight for example will be operated with their UK company and not their Norwegian based one.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
Tdan
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Mon May 29, 2017 10:05 pm

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
I know Norwegian were also planning Gatwick to Tokyo, although couldn't get overflight clearance from Russia - so launched Denver and Seattle instead.


This is 100% true. Heard it from Norwegian directly. Seems that Norwegian has a Russia issue, therefore more transatlantic capacity. Will be interesting to see if this persists and if they run into additional bilateral challenges.
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JayBCNLON
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Tue May 30, 2017 1:37 am

dcajet wrote:
Well, not my intention to stir the pot, but if Catalonia gets its way, this may not be a problem in the not too distant future.

Recent polls suggest that won't happen as 61% Of Catalonians are against independence
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2017/05/23/ ... 4.amp.html
 
Softaero
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Tue May 30, 2017 1:44 am

VRHNM wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
So Spain and Russia worked out only one daily Trans-Siberian flight originating from Madrid? What does this mean for other potential MAD-Asia flights? So there will be no BCN-Japan/Korea/China on any airline?


CX has been operating a 77W between HKG and MAD for some time now, 4 weekly.

Avoiding Russian airspace adds very little to the HKG-MAD great circle distance, so it hardly affects profit.
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly
 
dcajet
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Tue May 30, 2017 2:12 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Well, not my intention to stir the pot, but if Catalonia gets its way, this may not be a problem in the not too distant future.

Recent polls suggest that won't happen as 61% Of Catalonians are against independence
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2017/05/23/ ... 4.amp.html


According to the article you quoted, 61% of Catalonians are against an unilateral declaration of independence from the rest of Spain. If this would be achieved through negotiations, I am sure that the percentage that supports an independent Catalonia is higher than that.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Kikko19
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Re: Norwegian was looking to start BCN-TYO

Tue May 30, 2017 10:26 am

what about DY opening a base in Finland? they'd copy AY model and likely with lower costs. of course finns might not give permits (FR and friends never really had many routes to SF and never to HEL). maybe TLL? the airport is expanding continously.

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