Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
bugsbegone
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:03 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
I think the other thing that really gives this thing legs is that people can see themselves in this situation. It can happen to anyone and does many times daily.... well only to those that aren't rich and don't fly enough to have high status and bought low cost tickets for a trip they need to go on in the future...


Apparently not xD
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus ... story.html

First class passenger was asked to empty his seat for "someone more important".
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:03 pm

bugsbegone wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I think the other thing that really gives this thing legs is that people can see themselves in this situation. It can happen to anyone and does many times daily.... well only to those that aren't rich and don't fly enough to have high status and bought low cost tickets for a trip they need to go on in the future...


Apparently not xD
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus ... story.html

First class passenger was asked to empty his seat for "someone more important".


Wow, and white, too. #ShintaenamTakeNote
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6003
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:13 pm

http://time.com/4734931/united-airlines ... d=homepage makes a good point: United simply didn't assess the value of those four seats. The pax have already purchased the flights, with arriving at a specified time in mind. $800 and a hotel room was too little to make them take a later flight. Well. Duh. That's market at work.

Not getting those four crew members to Louisville in time will cost United, say, $50'000 in delays because other passengers will have to be compensated.

No way I would accept $1000 or even $5000 in compensation when the airline will save $50'000 by bumping four passengers. I genuinely hope all pax know that they're helping the airline by accepting such low compensation - there is no way $800 and a hotel room can be judged a generous offer BY the airline.

David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
cat3appr50
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:14 pm

Regarding 1021AHexpress post #1053…that’s not going to happen, and UAL will absolutely not be leaving Chicago.

Unless this doctor was scheduled to perform life threatening surgery the following morning, the doctor excuse IMO isn’t valid relative to not being considered for IDB. One would think as a doctor, that he would professionally understand not to choose the last flight out on a Sunday night for what is typically expected to be a full flight at a very large airport like KORD, and of which IDB is always a possibility, especially if one checks in late.

It is written and documented policy (and therefore legal) with most airlines, and in accordance with the US Dept. of Transportation current regulations, that an individual can be bumped from a domestic flight under IDB (involuntary denied boarding). And those chosen is not based on national origin, race, gender, socioeconomic status, or occupational status etc, despite the hype in social media.

In a post 9/11 world, and especially in the USA, a belligerent, defiant, and unruly passenger who will not abide by airline (documented) policy despite attempts by airline officials in reasonable, professional, and calm attempts in dealing with this IDB situation over a significant period of time, will ultimately be removed from the flight as necessary when the behavior escalates and continues unabated.
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:17 pm

If not yet posted...

A MESAGE FROM OSCAR: I sorry, we will fix this

Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8600
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:21 pm

Keith2004 wrote:
EVEN IF UNITED was 100% RIGHT technically, the initial response was not one of a corporation of this size with a PR department

This topic is proof of how out of touch with reality some people are in the Aviation Geek bubble that is Airliners.net

Most of you won't change your minds or positions or admit you were wrong but hopefully this situation helps provide perspective of things outside the bubble


Not really, leggings incident proved even common people quickly recognize who is right. Other than few activists with an agenda, most realized United did the right thing.

Knowing that something could be wrong, corporation trying to duke it out is the issue here.

CEO's initial tweet was unnecessary, internal memo was totally unnecessary and condescending. Little empathy would have subsided this story quickly.

BTW airline staff enjoyed lot more power than necessary over paid customers since 9/11.
All posts are just opinions.
 
jman40
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:50 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:27 pm

727LOVER wrote:



Oh, such a red herring. The incident you cite was caused by the person trying to sneak into another cabin for which he had not paid. When confronted, he became beligerent. He was clearly in violation of the rules. In Sunday's case, the man was sitting quietly in his assigned seat, when he was forcibly removed from the aircraft to solve a business problem. To even pretend to equate the two is intellictually dishonest.
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:33 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
Keith2004 wrote:
This topic is proof of how out of touch with reality some people are in the Aviation Geek bubble that is Airliners.net

Most of you won't change your minds or positions or admit you were wrong but hopefully this situation helps provide perspective of things outside the bubble

After the Leggingsgate thread I came in here quite expecting the RULES ARE RULES, SEIZE [email protected]` and the IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AS LONG AS THEIR TICKETS ARE $0.01 LOWER crowds to be well represented, and I was correct.

Here's another example of the impact on United's brand in the real world, as opposed to the A.nut bubble. It does come with all the usual discomfort about where social media ends and news begins, but at this point, sorry, it's news:

If you’ve ever watch a viral video on one of your favorite sites on the internet, it most likely was lifted from r/videos.

Reddit’s main video forum is one of the best incubators on the internet for virality, and editors for many of the web’s largest publications check it religiously for the next big thing.

([One] submission about the [United] incident, with 111,ooo upvotes, is now the fourth-most upvoted video on the forum’s history.)

On Tuesday morning, the subreddit dedicated its massive influence to bashing the airline for its actions.

Almost ever single story on the site was a link to videos of United’s misdeeds over the past few years, or spoofs about the incident, with astronomical numbers of upvotes.

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/reddit-videos-forum-united-trolling/
(emphasis mine)

Image

Get a heating pad to lay your scrolling finger on, because that's just the tip of the iceberg. Right or wrong, United isn't just getting roasted over this incident, it's getting incinerated.

I guess United didn't learn quickly enough when their PR team deliberately stepped in a steaming pile with Leggingsgate. You'd think a corporation that big would have been on the phone to a dedicated crisis management consultancy the instant somebody near the top of the food chain found out about the specifics of Volunteergate.

This is beyond the realm of water cooler talk and into the realm of late-night TV, 2000 word thinkpieces in The Atlantic, and soon enough, case studies in whatever noxious underground cave where marketers are schooled. It will have a LOT of blowback on the United brand.


The Academy (of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences) got well roasted for it's contractor's handling of The Best Award fiasco --- for a few weeks --- and then, it's out of the news cycle.

Same here. Police, Chicago Police :scratchchin: , over acted in a situation they had every right to be in. The video optics is what makes it all look so nasty. Ray Rice did a bad thing in knocking out his fiance. The written reports told the story. It wasn't until the video surfaced, of the event described in the report, that all hell broke loose. If we'd only had the written report, this wouldn't be headline news around the globe.

The mass long term exodus of UA patrons is just a pipe dream...
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:34 pm

cat3appr50 wrote:
Unless this doctor was scheduled to perform life threatening surgery the following morning, the doctor excuse IMO isn’t valid relative to not being considered for IDB.


The doctor in question is not allowed to perform surgery.
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:36 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I'd settle for a happy medium.


I always prefer to err away from the instinct to attack those who peacefully protest, even if I disagree with the message. Violence is another matter, but peaceful protest is the happiest of mediums in my opinion.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:40 pm

zckls04 wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
I love this notion that a fare paying customer is regarded as a "criminal" for expecting to receive the service he paid for. This 'overselling' culture needs to be sorted out once and for all. If the airlines are so concerned with 'no shows' then make better T&C's that discourage the culture. Don't then punish the customer for turning up to eat at the restaurant table they booked.


Ultimately if the airline's revenues drop due to empty seats, then we're all going to pay for it.

There is a middle ground- continue to overbook, but when you need to offer compensation you offer more, perhaps via some sort of auction system. If the compensation is starting to cost you more than you make in overbook revenue, you cut down on the overbooking.

The reality is that 99 times out of 100 you will find somebody willing to take a small amount of $$$ as compensation. When you can't, you just have to accept it as a cost of obtaining the overbook revenue.


Yes but why does a no show equate to lost revenue ? And by 'no show' I mean just that, as opposed to a passenger cancellation. How much of the paid ticket price does the airline keep in these circumstances, all of it, some of it ? What exactly is defined as 'lost revenue' ? If an empty seat is already paid for, then where exactly is the beef ? Is it simply greedy airlines hoping to sell a seat twice ?
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:41 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The mass long term exodus of UA patrons is just a pipe dream...


Agreed, but that doesn't mean it won't affect the company's bottom line. In fact it's certain that it will- the only question is to what extent. The effect may even be positive if enough people think as you do (cf. Chick-Fil-A).

Events like these in isolation don't hurt a company, but if repeated, and if a pattern is established and not addressed, they certainly can.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:42 pm

Leslieville wrote:
Bradd Jaffy of NBC news is quoting on Twitter a statement from the Chicago Police Department saying that the injuries experienced by the forcibly removed passenger were the result of him "falling".

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/8 ... 56/photo/1


Did anyone expect them to take full responsibility? When has a police dept EVER said, "We're sorry, we shouldn't have, but we did and we will own up to it"?
@DadCelo
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:42 pm

IPFreely wrote:
cat3appr50 wrote:
Unless this doctor was scheduled to perform life threatening surgery the following morning, the doctor excuse IMO isn’t valid relative to not being considered for IDB.


The doctor in question is not allowed to perform surgery.


One day a week outpatient practice. Either way, doesn't matter.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:44 pm

Junction wrote:
This seems like a similar incident. Where was all the outrage in the past?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wom ... 11bfd4f928


Completely different.

"Delta requested assistance with a passenger “who would not comply with boarding and baggage check procedures” at the gate"
@DadCelo
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:46 pm

727LOVER wrote:


Who in this entire thread has said "This is OK as long as it doesn't come from United"?

That's what is difficult for me to understand about the people here defending UA. No one is coming for UA specifically. No one is saying that this is ok for any other airline.

Also: COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUES!!!
Last edited by gatibosgru on Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
@DadCelo
 
planespotter20
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:46 pm

Poor UA, the media outlets are going to blow this thing way out of proportion (it kinda already has). Violence definitely should not have been used on him, but I see this more as a poor decision made by the police, the FA's, and every staff member involved. The airport police should of never done what they did. The FA's shouldn't have called the police in the first place, rather just choose a different customer or raise the voucher offer.

And now UA gets to deal with the fury of people. They'll probably just have to lower prices for a while to get people to fly them again and then start inching up again. After all, every economy passenger can be persuaded with a cheap fare.
 
cpd
Posts: 6629
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:48 pm

N212R wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:
Rally (read protest) and press conference at Chicago O'Hare at 6pm local (1 hour from now).

https://www.facebook.com/events/1895621 ... discussion


Like a broken clock, the serially offended groupies and their Great Leaders to make a social statement. Maybe the Greatest Community Organizer of All Time will make a cameo from his ritzy suburban mansion, rub shoulders with the hoi polloi and reluctantly let Jesse Jackson upstage him. Keep your eyes peeled on CNN for the Anderson Cooper live report.


What is the difference between these people protesting and those people arguing vociferously in favour of United Airlines?

planespotter20 wrote:
Poor UA, the media outlets are going to blow this thing way out of proportion (it kinda already has). Violence definitely should not have been used on him, but I see this more as a poor decision made by the police, the FA's, and every staff member involved. The airport police should of never done what they did. The FA's shouldn't have called the police in the first place, rather just choose a different customer or raise the voucher offer.

And now UA gets to deal with the fury of people. They'll probably just have to lower prices for a while to get people to fly them again and then start inching up again. After all, every economy passenger can be persuaded with a cheap fare.


Well, not every economy passenger can be persuaded like that. Especially if you've been burned before by the airline.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:57 pm

planespotter20 wrote:
The FA's shouldn't have called the police in the first place, rather just choose a different customer or raise the voucher offer.


Choose a different customer? If the first customer they chose to IDB was allowed to stay because he threw a tantrum, what do you think the next chosen customer -- who just observed that a tantrum keeps you on the plane -- will do?
 
VC10er
Posts: 4283
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:06 am

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar

NOW THIS IS ON UNITED.COM. I personally think it is well written and sincere - but stupidly days late. I also think if he fulfills his promise of a full report by the 30th, and "BIGLY" and publicly lists what moves and changes will be made, if UA adequately compensates the Dr and IMHO, Mr Munoz should call every passenger on that plane...it can start to fade away. But it will be remembered for years to come. If I was Oscar I would be so angry with myself...doing such an initial great job, starting to turn things around and then screwing it ALL up in 48 hours!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 927
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:07 am

cat3appr50 wrote:
Regarding 1021AHexpress post #1053…that’s not going to happen, and UAL will absolutely not be leaving Chicago.

Unless this doctor was scheduled to perform life threatening surgery the following morning, the doctor excuse IMO isn’t valid relative to not being considered for IDB. One would think as a doctor, that he would professionally understand not to choose the last flight out on a Sunday night for what is typically expected to be a full flight at a very large airport like KORD, and of which IDB is always a possibility, especially if one checks in late.

It is written and documented policy (and therefore legal) with most airlines, and in accordance with the US Dept. of Transportation current regulations, that an individual can be bumped from a domestic flight under IDB (involuntary denied boarding). And those chosen is not based on national origin, race, gender, socioeconomic status, or occupational status etc, despite the hype in social media.

In a post 9/11 world, and especially in the USA, a belligerent, defiant, and unruly passenger who will not abide by airline (documented) policy despite attempts by airline officials in reasonable, professional, and calm attempts in dealing with this IDB situation over a significant period of time, will ultimately be removed from the flight as necessary when the behavior escalates and continues unabated.


For the sake of all of the employees, their families, investors and customers I hope you are wrong. The United name is now damaged goods and beyond repair. The brand value has taken a hit in the US and abroad. The media cycle on this will not end tomorrow. CNN will report on the lawsuit, on the congressional investigations, and if Pres Trump tweets about it, then that's another news cycle about it. The boycotts are worldwide.

One of the best things ValueJet ever did was re-brand itself as AirTran. The re-branding of ValueJet was not just symbolic, real changes were made in its corporate culture. United needs to the same to survive.
 
zippy
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 9:46 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:20 am

cat3appr50 wrote:
One would think as a doctor, that he would professionally understand not to choose the last flight out on a Sunday night for what is typically expected to be a full flight at a very large airport like KORD, and of which IDB is always a possibility, especially if one checks in late.


It wasn't the last flight.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:22 am

102IAHexpress wrote:
cat3appr50 wrote:
Regarding 1021AHexpress post #1053…that’s not going to happen, and UAL will absolutely not be leaving Chicago.

Unless this doctor was scheduled to perform life threatening surgery the following morning, the doctor excuse IMO isn’t valid relative to not being considered for IDB. One would think as a doctor, that he would professionally understand not to choose the last flight out on a Sunday night for what is typically expected to be a full flight at a very large airport like KORD, and of which IDB is always a possibility, especially if one checks in late.

It is written and documented policy (and therefore legal) with most airlines, and in accordance with the US Dept. of Transportation current regulations, that an individual can be bumped from a domestic flight under IDB (involuntary denied boarding). And those chosen is not based on national origin, race, gender, socioeconomic status, or occupational status etc, despite the hype in social media.

In a post 9/11 world, and especially in the USA, a belligerent, defiant, and unruly passenger who will not abide by airline (documented) policy despite attempts by airline officials in reasonable, professional, and calm attempts in dealing with this IDB situation over a significant period of time, will ultimately be removed from the flight as necessary when the behavior escalates and continues unabated.


For the sake of all of the employees, their families, investors and customers I hope you are wrong. The United name is now damaged goods and beyond repair. The brand value has taken a hit in the US and abroad. The media cycle on this will not end tomorrow. CNN will report on the lawsuit, on the congressional investigations, and if Pres Trump tweets about it, then that's another news cycle about it. The boycotts are worldwide.

One of the best things ValueJet ever did was re-brand itself as AirTran. The re-branding of ValueJet was not just symbolic, real changes were made in its corporate culture. United needs to the same to survive.


ValuJet didn't just re-brand - they merged with the existing AirTran which had already purchased Florida Express. They took the name and image from them.

In that vein, I agree. United should purchase JetBlue, sell their JFK assets to WN, change the company name and product to JetBlue, and move on with their lives. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Junction
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:23 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Junction wrote:
This seems like a similar incident. Where was all the outrage in the past?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wom ... 11bfd4f928


Completely different.

"Delta requested assistance with a passenger “who would not comply with boarding and baggage check procedures” at the gate"

Dude...It is NEVER EVER okay to drag someone down the aisle of a plane on the floor like an animal. How can you even justify it for that crazy woman on the DL flight?
 
transswede
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:24 am

Pentagon awards contract to United Airlines to forcibly remove Assad: http://www.duffelblog.com/2017/04/penta ... ove-assad/

:D
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3236
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:30 am

102IAHexpress wrote:
cat3appr50 wrote:
Regarding 1021AHexpress post #1053…that’s not going to happen, and UAL will absolutely not be leaving Chicago.

Unless this doctor was scheduled to perform life threatening surgery the following morning, the doctor excuse IMO isn’t valid relative to not being considered for IDB. One would think as a doctor, that he would professionally understand not to choose the last flight out on a Sunday night for what is typically expected to be a full flight at a very large airport like KORD, and of which IDB is always a possibility, especially if one checks in late.

It is written and documented policy (and therefore legal) with most airlines, and in accordance with the US Dept. of Transportation current regulations, that an individual can be bumped from a domestic flight under IDB (involuntary denied boarding). And those chosen is not based on national origin, race, gender, socioeconomic status, or occupational status etc, despite the hype in social media.

In a post 9/11 world, and especially in the USA, a belligerent, defiant, and unruly passenger who will not abide by airline (documented) policy despite attempts by airline officials in reasonable, professional, and calm attempts in dealing with this IDB situation over a significant period of time, will ultimately be removed from the flight as necessary when the behavior escalates and continues unabated.


For the sake of all of the employees, their families, investors and customers I hope you are wrong. The United name is now damaged goods and beyond repair. The brand value has taken a hit in the US and abroad. The media cycle on this will not end tomorrow. CNN will report on the lawsuit, on the congressional investigations, and if Pres Trump tweets about it, then that's another news cycle about it. The boycotts are worldwide.

One of the best things ValueJet ever did was re-brand itself as AirTran. The re-branding of ValueJet was not just symbolic, real changes were made in its corporate culture. United needs to the same to survive.

Oh for the love of God.

Think what you want of the incident, but airlines have actually killed hundreds of people in plane crashes stemming from their negligence and their brands survived. This incident, insane and unorthodox as it may be, doesn't even rise to the level of, say, AA191 (of which there were actual photos of the plane in a gut-wrenching pre-crash angle with a lost engine) or AS261. Get real.
 
flflyguy
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:26 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:30 am

For what it's worth, the AA flight that left at 6:40pm went out with several empty seats. So UA had that option, either for the customers or for the deadheading crew.
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
 
wingman
Posts: 4033
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:31 am

VC10er wrote:
I personally think it is well written and sincere - but stupidly days late.


I agree, nice note. And maybe not too late. Now it's full court press time on the mea culpa and a nice fat check to the doctor. That note could and should be part of any manual on customer debacles. It's so basic, the customer is always right even when they're wrong. It's what separates the great brands from the mediocre ones. And let's face it, United is a truly mediocre brand that just took two giants steps backwards into steaming piles of dog shit. Alas, not a huge surprise in this country when so many people rush to defend their actions saying the man was a criminal the second he refused crew commands to deplane, it assumes instant guilt without any kind of rational or caring thought process. That's what makes these cell phone recordings so incredible, they finally give people a view into the kind of shit that goes on in the airline industry. People that think just because they're in this industry that they can assume all powerful roles and dispense "justice" on the spot, well they got what they deserved in this case, the truth for all of us to see. A real disgrace.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2970
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:32 am

VC10er wrote:
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar

NOW THIS IS ON UNITED.COM. I personally think it is well written and sincere - but stupidly days late. I also think if he fulfills his promise of a full report by the 30th, and "BIGLY" and publicly lists what moves and changes will be made, if UA adequately compensates the Dr and IMHO, Mr Munoz should call every passenger on that plane...it can start to fade away. But it will be remembered for years to come. If I was Oscar I would be so angry with myself...doing such an initial great job, starting to turn things around and then screwing it ALL up in 48 hours!

Sure it is sincere - probably accounting department delivered some numbers, and stocks are low. Probably he is even genuinely hurt - I mean his wallet hurts due to stocks going down.
Re-accomodation thing just killed it. Nothing can undo that.
 
KentB27
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:20 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:33 am

exunited wrote:
The flight was by Republic Airlines, not United mainline but then nobody would take the click bait if the headlines said Republic now would they?


I agree but since the plane says UNITED on the side of it guess who's going to get the heat for it?
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:34 am

zippy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
2. Those other flights weren't going to be an option as they either left earlier or were already door-closed when the problems on the YX flight flared up.


UA 3411 is scheduled to depart at 5:40pm. I listed ten flights that are scheduled later, one flight that would've departed around the same time, and an air taxi service.



And they have certain rest requirements, so 9 pm flights arent really an option. Plus, considering they were offering customers a 3 pm flight the next day, those flights were probably sold out.
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:36 am

Amiga500 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
and frankly the passenger failed (for not obeying the police).


Rubbish.

Civilians should not be expected to bow to the whims of figures in authority for any and all circumstances.



when its their plane and their rules that one agrees to when buying a ticket, then they absolutely should be expected to.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:36 am

flflyguy wrote:
For what it's worth, the AA flight that left at 6:40pm went out with several empty seats. So UA had that option, either for the customers or for the deadheading crew.


Sadly, by that time, 3411 and team were fully into their cluster....
Last edited by PlanesNTrains on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:37 am

mjoelnir wrote:
People do not realise how bad an outcome for the industry this could be if it goes to court.

Overbooking. Airline guys seem that to be an unconditional right to sell the same thing more than once. I would like to see another industry being able to do this and the way how this is resolved is especially revolting.
An airline sells a seat for a flight from A to B 3 months in advance for 100 $ and gets paid. Than the airline sells this seat for 300 $ a week before the flight, if both show up the guy who payed 300 $ gets to fly.
Nobody here is afraid that some court can throw out this practice sometime in the future as an unreasonable, unethical, banned business practice? In other business you usually can not sell the same wares twice and than decide who gets it.
You sell a house and somebody comes along and is prepared to pay more later on? You have 9 houses for sale and sell 10? Let us see, you sell a house, got paid, the family who bought it moves in and than you come and say you need the house for an employee?
Where does this industry get the idea that it is a acceptable business practice to sell the same thing twice to different customers, or take away the sold item when your own employees need it?

It would not be the first that courts do away with a revolting business practice.

If the airlines want to have always seats for dead heading crew without prior warning, why should the airline than not have to reserve seats for this purpose and use them for standby passengers if no deadheading crew arrives? The airlines answer will be cost, but does earning more money instantly make any revolting business practice acceptable?



Yet somehow jetBlue had more IDB than anyone last year and they dont even overbook, so clearly overall the practice works.
 
Cerecl
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:37 am

727LOVER wrote:

Big difference there. The passenger was unruly, kicking at police officers, running in the aircraft (according to the accompanying notes) then laying on the aisle.
The other passengers were actively berating the offending passenger and assisting the police
The policeman involved applied bare-minimum force required to remove this guy
Not comparable.
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:40 am

Very interesting read, even if it is CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/opinions/ ... d=36413403
@DadCelo
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:45 am

AusA380 wrote:
Calder wrote:
The situation obviously should never have been escalated the way it was. Some front line employees and lower level managers will be looking for new jobs, United/Republic will be cutting a big check, and the man who refused to leave will not likely be flying on United metal for a long time.


I think if United were to ban this doctor, that would only make the PR another step worse.

He may choose Not to Fly United, which a lot of people on social media are saying today.



He should be banned, he has shown he is not willing to abide by the contract of carriage.
 
Cerecl
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:49 am

OSUk1d wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
and frankly the passenger failed (for not obeying the police).


Rubbish.
Civilians should not be expected to bow to the whims of figures in authority for any and all circumstances.

when its their plane and their rules that one agrees to when buying a ticket, then they absolutely should be expected to.


No. If the request stems from a safety concern or the passenger involved is engaging in illegal activity, absolutely. What if the police came and wanted to remove someone based purely on his/her race (as it happened to one of my friends)? UA called the police to save money. No more, no less, and the police should never have been used as UA's private security force.
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:50 am

4 people were asked to leave the aircraft. 3 complied.

So those 3 get $800 and this guy gets $1 million?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
wstakl
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:52 am

Choose four Asians because typically they don't make a fuss and aren't confrontational....yet this one guy did. Christ just imagine if it was four black people who they 'randomly' selected to be kicked off. DISCRIMINATION! I bet whoever made the decision was instructed or decided themselves not to select black people.
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:52 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Quick question: Who is more important, employees or customers?


Money, there was a Flight Options charter from ORD-SDF same day, UA could have bought seats or hired on their own. There were even UPS flights.



So you want to put them in a box and ship the crew?
 
User avatar
11725Flyer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:53 am

727LOVER wrote:
4 people were asked to leave the aircraft. 3 complied.

So those 3 get $800 and this guy gets $1 million?


Yes.
 
jman40
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:50 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:54 am

This passenger's past legal issues have absolutely nothing to do with this event. To those who say they do, I ask for evidence for why it matters. Not why YOU think it matters, but why UA, Republic, Chicago PD, the ORD administration, or the court system should think it matters. Tell us why his past crimes matter here. Unless you can provide evidence, then you are trying to deflect blame or worse.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:56 am

wstakl wrote:
Choose four Asians because typically they don't make a fuss and aren't confrontational....yet this one guy did. Christ just imagine if it was four black people who they 'randomly' selected to be kicked off. DISCRIMINATION! I bet whoever made the decision was instructed or decided themselves not to select black people.


I would delete this as it isn't based on anything other than personal emotion and bias,
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:57 am

jman40 wrote:
This passenger's past legal issues have absolutely nothing to do with this event. To those who say they do, I ask for evidence for why it matters. Not why YOU think it matters, but why UA, Republic, Chicago PD, the ORD administration, or the court system should think it matters. Tell us why his past crimes matter here. Unless you can provide evidence, then you are trying to deflect blame or worse.


True. This guy may have worked really hard to turn his life around and be an upstanding citizen. Were it not for this random incident and selection process, we would never have heard about him and he'd be home right now after a day at work.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
sphealey
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 12:39 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:57 am

OSUk1d wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Nothing can defend Uniteds actions . The CEO needs to resign and all staff near the aircraft should be fired and hopefully go to prison

US3 - third world airlines , -all of them


go to prison? if you had your way almost everyone would be in jail I guess.
you must be joking.
anyway, the doctor should be the one in prison for contributing to the opioid crisis and prostitution.


I hope that the a.net member making these sorts of accusations have good solid proof in hand, because it is trivial for a law firm representing a publicly injured client to search out potentially libelous posts and file a few additional cases.

In any case, a different view:

"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/united-airlines-david-dao_us_58ed013ae4b0c89f9121d917?

WASHINGTON ― The U.S.-based air carrier United Airlines is no angel. The 91-year-old airline, which on Sunday called police to violently remove a passenger who refused to give up his paid seat to a United employee, has a troubled recent history of public relations disasters and serious legal problems.

Most prominently, United Airlines dabbled in corporate bribery in U.S. politics from 2011 to 2014. During those years, the airline provided special money-losing flights from Newark, New Jersey, to Columbia, South Carolina, to curry favor with David Samson, then chairman of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.[...]'
 
Overthecascades
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:59 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
wstakl wrote:
Choose four Asians because typically they don't make a fuss and aren't confrontational....yet this one guy did. Christ just imagine if it was four black people who they 'randomly' selected to be kicked off. DISCRIMINATION! I bet whoever made the decision was instructed or decided themselves not to select black people.


I would delete this as it isn't based on anything other than personal emotion and bias,

All four were Asian? I thought it was random picked by computer???
 
wstakl
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:59 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
wstakl wrote:
Choose four Asians because typically they don't make a fuss and aren't confrontational....yet this one guy did. Christ just imagine if it was four black people who they 'randomly' selected to be kicked off. DISCRIMINATION! I bet whoever made the decision was instructed or decided themselves not to select black people.


I would delete this as it isn't based on anything other than personal emotion and bias,


Nope....freedom of speech and all that. I hope the four crew who took the seats felt guilty. I would have jeered them and gave them shit the whole damn flight.
 
Cerecl
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:01 am

727LOVER wrote:
4 people were asked to leave the aircraft. 3 complied.

So those 3 get $800 and this guy gets $1 million?

He gets $1m because he was targeted by UA staff because of how much he paid for his ticket and possibly his race. He was put in a difficult spot because UA staff wanted to save $700 and didn't care about delaying passengers for almost 24hrs. He was assaulted by police who should never have been used for this purpose. He probably sustained some sort of brain injury which may be career-terminating, and now has all his past published on national media. If he is an actively practising doctor I would say $1m is not a good deal and he should sue for much more!
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:02 am

wstakl wrote:
Choose four Asians because typically they don't make a fuss and aren't confrontational....yet this one guy did. Christ just imagine if it was four black people who they 'randomly' selected to be kicked off. DISCRIMINATION! I bet whoever made the decision was instructed or decided themselves not to select black people.



thats absolutely not true. actual foreign ones do whatever the hell they please when they don't understand.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos