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bogota
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:20 pm

sergegva wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
Again, aboard an airplane you do as you are told. And if you are told to leave you leave.


For no reason? Why?


For what I can gather in by reading here from some people it is simply because in the USA the police can do what ever and nobody can question them. Kind of what is called martial law in most other countries. Something is very wrong when people who do nothing wrong are beaten up by police simply because an airline staff member can call up the police when they need to enforce their own incompetence. If they overbooked and had to sort out the problem, police should never get involved unless somebody is threatening or posing danger to somebody else. Delaying an aircraft because he was randomly picked is not his problem but the airlines´ problem.
 
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GlenP
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:25 pm

44k wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It seems in a world where an airline can not just beat up a passenger to enforce there view of a contract made between them and the passenger.

Where do airline staff get the idea that a contract does not give rights? What do you think a contract is about?

Yes, but the contract clearly states that a flight may get overbook and you may be bumped, and it does NOT guarantee a seat would be available.


The flight was not overbooked, as was openly admitted by OM.

It was fully booked and boarded, only then did the airline staff decide that they needed to offload PAX in order to accommodate other airline staff.

Again, it must be remembered that OM has publicly stated that, in this instance, the passenger was not in the wrong, nor did he do anything wrong; thus cancelling out the notion that he was either obstruction the crew, ignoring legitimate instructions or the source of danger to the flight itself.

Basically, the handling of the incident on the day was a disaster and the response of UA management to the uproar that resulted a cock-up of the first order.
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:27 pm

Given Oscarito´s statements today:

"We have apologized and given a 100% refund to EVERY SINGLE passenger on the flight"
"United will never again use LEOs to remove anyone bumped from a flight"
"We have failed to develop a culture where our employees can apply their criteria instead of rigidly abiding by procedures where sometimes leeway may be needed"

I´m sure they already settled with Dr. Dao. Otherwise Oscarito wouldn´t be doing or saying all of the above. I´d like to know the figure...

The other two goons that participated in removing Dr. Dao have now been suspended too. So, I ask the very limited number of posters here who keep defending the actions of these thughs:

If they were so in the right, why have they been suspended?

Oscarito needs to go. This will not go away and his head will need to roll. While he may not be personally responsible, people will identify him as the man in charge when this event happened.

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.
 
kavok
Posts: 866
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:28 pm

44k wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It seems in a world where an airline can not just beat up a passenger to enforce there view of a contract made between them and the passenger.

Where do airline staff get the idea that a contract does not give rights? What do you think a contract is about?

Yes, but the contract clearly states that a flight may get overbook and you may be bumped, and it does NOT guarantee a seat would be available.



Not exactly. The contract technically states the the flight may get overbooked and that you could be "denied boarding". Very minor but important difference.

Reason being, and there were several earlier posts on this subject, but in summary a court or legal judge will interpret "boarding" to be the process of scanning your boarding pass and going to your seat. Basically, once in your seat, you would be considered to have been "boarded", even if United disagrees with that definition. And thus, because you were allowed boarding, you obviously weren't denied boarding. And then, since you weren't denied boarding, the removal of Mr. Dao falls under the contract of carriage, in which United had no legal authority to remove him in this particular situation.

And to emphasize it again for clarification, I am by no means recommending that anyone follow Mr. Dao's course of action. But it would appear that what Mr. Dao did was legal in this particular situation.
 
transswede
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:30 pm

Stratofish wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
If the someone has rented a room in your home, you can not just throw him out. What your example is missing is, that a passenger has a right to be in the airplane after you have sold him a ticket, got paid and boarded him. If you ask than a LEO for no valid reason to throw him out, you and the LEO are breaking the law.

Please read above. A ticket is a contract, not a right. Any contract can be revoked or altered. In such case compensation apllies to the other party involved. I could throw anybody out for any reason as long as I compensate the person and arrange alternative accomodation. It might not be the most sensible or honorable thing to do, but I could.


Your customer service attitude sounds exactly like a Seinfeld Car Rental scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_DeR_n72E :)

Yes, what you state is correct. But then you also need to realize why the industry (and United in particular) is so disliked.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:36 pm

bogota wrote:
sergegva wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
Again, aboard an airplane you do as you are told. And if you are told to leave you leave.


For no reason? Why?


For what I can gather in by reading here from some people it is simply because in the USA the police can do what ever and nobody can question them. Kind of what is called martial law in most other countries. Something is very wrong when people who do nothing wrong are beaten up by police simply because an airline staff member can call up the police when they need to enforce their own incompetence. If they overbooked and had to sort out the problem, police should never get involved unless somebody is threatening or posing danger to somebody else. Delaying an aircraft because he was randomly picked is not his problem but the airlines´ problem.


I think it's a bit different than that, but ultimately that was the outcome.

I think some people believe that a business (or home, etc) you their property and they should ultimately be able to tell someone to leave it. If that person has a contract to be on that property, some people believe that the business (or homeowner, etc) should - rightly or wrongly - be able to tell someone to get off their property. When that person says "Sorry - I ain't leaving", some people believe that the business (or homeowner, etc) should - rightly or wrongly - be able to have the person removed from their property, forcibly or otherwise. some people believe that the person who has had their contract breached (or whatever) should then have legal righs and perhaps additional damages owed to them.

That is different than saying that the airline was right or moral in what they did, and it is different than saying that the police were right or moral in how they handled it. However, I some people believe that that can be worked out peacefully after the fact rather than resist leaving their property.

Whether that is legally sound is a whole 'nother story, but at the end of the day, some people believe that you should be able to decide that you no longer want someone on your property and they should comply, even if they have legal recourse later.

However, this all started with a lousy system, probably lousy station management (if not higher), and a lousy gate agent. It really never should have gotten to where it did, and more should and could have been done. I like Trump's comment about it. It really was a simple dollars and cents exercise that should never have involved the police. Period.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:36 pm

transswede wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
If the someone has rented a room in your home, you can not just throw him out. What your example is missing is, that a passenger has a right to be in the airplane after you have sold him a ticket, got paid and boarded him. If you ask than a LEO for no valid reason to throw him out, you and the LEO are breaking the law.

Please read above. A ticket is a contract, not a right. Any contract can be revoked or altered. In such case compensation apllies to the other party involved. I could throw anybody out for any reason as long as I compensate the person and arrange alternative accomodation. It might not be the most sensible or honorable thing to do, but I could.


Your customer service attitude sounds exactly like a Seinfeld Car Rental scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_DeR_n72E :)

Yes, what you state is correct. But then you also need to realize why the industry (and United in particular) is so disliked.


I think you'll find few people disagreeing. Clearly customer service are not words many of these employees understand the meaning of.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
bob75013
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:37 pm

AR385 wrote:

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.



Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:42 pm

bob75013 wrote:
AR385 wrote:

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.



Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.


Three words to describe why this situation may be different: Social. Justice. Warriors. This is bouncing around social media in ways I haven't seen before. People on my Facebook page that never say much are posting UA meme's - and they're not pretty. Nobody posted a single meme about VW and I'm guessing virtually nobody on my Facebook list even knew about it. If they did, they didn't care because it didn't come with a video of yet another police beating of an innocent man, with his bloody body dragged out of their offices. I'm not saying it should come to that, but I'm saying that I could see how it is part of the "exit strategy" of this terrible PR incident.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:43 pm

44k wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It seems in a world where an airline can not just beat up a passenger to enforce there view of a contract made between them and the passenger.

Where do airline staff get the idea that a contract does not give rights? What do you think a contract is about?

Yes, but the contract clearly states that a flight may get overbook and you may be bumped, and it does NOT guarantee a seat would be available.


Yes, and if the interpretation of the airline that he should have given up his seat, after having boarded, sitting in the seat he was assigned, was right, they could have sued him after the flight. Where is the right of the airline defined to use force to remove him? We are talking about a disagreement on the reading of a contract, a civil matter.
What is astonishing is the believe, that there is the right on the side of the airline, to use force to enforce a contract. We would frown on a passenger to use force to board the aircraft, to enforce his reading of the contract.
 
bob75013
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:47 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
AR385 wrote:

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.



Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.


Three words to describe why this situation may be different: Social. Justice. Warriors. This is bouncing around social media in ways I haven't seen before. People on my Facebook page that never say much are posting UA meme's - and they're not pretty. Nobody posted a single meme about VW and I'm guessing virtually nobody on my Facebook list even knew about it. If they did, they didn't care because it didn't come with a video of yet another police beating of an innocent man, with his bloody body dragged out of their offices. I'm not saying it should come to that, but I'm saying that I could see how it is part of the "exit strategy" of this terrible PR incident.


Make ya a bet that in maybe two weeks that the outcry drops by about 90%. There will be other stories and causes that take over. That' just the way it is because it's hard to sustain this level of outrage...
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:50 pm

bob75013 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
bob75013 wrote:


Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.


Three words to describe why this situation may be different: Social. Justice. Warriors. This is bouncing around social media in ways I haven't seen before. People on my Facebook page that never say much are posting UA meme's - and they're not pretty. Nobody posted a single meme about VW and I'm guessing virtually nobody on my Facebook list even knew about it. If they did, they didn't care because it didn't come with a video of yet another police beating of an innocent man, with his bloody body dragged out of their offices. I'm not saying it should come to that, but I'm saying that I could see how it is part of the "exit strategy" of this terrible PR incident.


Make ya a bet that in maybe two weeks that the outcry drops by about 90%. There will be other stories and causes that take over. That' just the way it is because it's hard to sustain this level of outrage...


Hehe I fold. lol You may very well be right, but I do stand behind that this story may have some legs.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
kavok
Posts: 866
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:55 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
AR385 wrote:

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.



Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.


Three words to describe why this situation may be different: Social. Justice. Warriors. This is bouncing around social media in ways I haven't seen before. People on my Facebook page that never say much are posting UA meme's - and they're not pretty. Nobody posted a single meme about VW and I'm guessing virtually nobody on my Facebook list even knew about it. If they did, they didn't care because it didn't come with a video of yet another police beating of an innocent man, with his bloody body dragged out of their offices. I'm not saying it should come to that, but I'm saying that I could see how it is part of the "exit strategy" of this terrible PR incident.



It is a culmination of people from all walks of life being fed up with the airlines shenanigans, and finally having an incident to rally around. There is a reason United is taking the hit on this much more than the Chicago Airport Police Force who carried out the act.

Simply put, the VAST majority of the discussion is centered around United's mishandling of this... and not Chicago Airport PD should have removed him in a better way. And that is because the majority of the public feel that the real issue was that he should NOT have been removed, and the fact that he was beaten in the process adds insult to injury.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:00 am

kavok wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
bob75013 wrote:


Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.


Three words to describe why this situation may be different: Social. Justice. Warriors. This is bouncing around social media in ways I haven't seen before. People on my Facebook page that never say much are posting UA meme's - and they're not pretty. Nobody posted a single meme about VW and I'm guessing virtually nobody on my Facebook list even knew about it. If they did, they didn't care because it didn't come with a video of yet another police beating of an innocent man, with his bloody body dragged out of their offices. I'm not saying it should come to that, but I'm saying that I could see how it is part of the "exit strategy" of this terrible PR incident.



It is a culmination of people from all walks of life being fed up with the airlines shenanigans, and finally having an incident to rally around. There is a reason United is taking the hit on this much more than the Chicago Airport Police Force who carried out the act.

Simply put, the VAST majority of the discussion is centered around United's mishandling of this... and not Chicago Airport PD should have removed him in a better way. And that is because the majority of the public feel that the real issue was that he should NOT have been removed, and the fact that he was beaten in the process adds insult to injury.


If there were no police brutality, there'd be no video.
If there were no video, there'd be no uproar.
But since there is, you are right, people are blaming UA for this. As they should.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
SWALUV
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:03 am

I've waited a bit to see the full story come out before I made a comment. Obviously the airport police, and UA handled this entirely wrong. But responsibility also has to lay on the passengers here. The cabin of an airliner is not the place to argue about being forced off, just as much as the side of the road is not the place to argue for the ticket. The video that came out today that showed the police giving him warning that they would physically remove him if he did not cooperate showed that this whole thing could've be avoided.

That being said*. United should've raised the compensation much higher then $800 (apologizes if it was $1000 as Oscar's internal statement said) to try and persuade customers. Whoever gave the call to the police gave it too early. That policy needs to be changed. But from a logistical side, they that crew needed to get on. From the company standpoint, four passengers compared to 60-70 makes sense. To most people, that makes sense. The Police, and UA just handled the details out wrong. Very wrong.
 
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CorpCareer
Posts: 12
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:13 am

SATexan wrote:
CorpCareer wrote:

I'm assuming nobody stood up for the guy for a few reasons....perhaps they didn't feel like interfering with the police which could get you tasered, arrested, beat, or shot!!!! You simply need to let the POPO's do their job I suppose. I'm not saying they have the right to use excessive force obviously and perhaps there is a point where someone should step in...I mean after all the police are humans who have emotions and can fall prey to letting their tempers get away from them, but that's a separate discussion perhaps. The man is being reported as being uncooperative and not listening to the police which of course is gonna get you into trouble. Just because the police are telling you something you don't like doesn't mean you can just ignore their commands. At some point force is warranted....not excessive force though.



These "alleged" cops did not even apply the basic principles of law enforcement nor did they apply common sense that comes with that responsibility. Also, I called them "alleged" cops, since to this point it is not clear if they were security guards or police or hired goons. They don't have any uniforms or even a badge on them. There were three of them and so lets not pretend that Dr. Dao did something so egregious or a terror act that all three of them allowed their tempers to get swayed. It is clear that some of you have no idea or wherewithal to be in an actual Police department outside the airport. They have to use a lot of pre-caution, common sense and procedures since they deal with people exercising their second amendment.


You are absolutely correct. I know that at any major airport there are many different forms of authority figures such as TSA, Airport Police, Private Security, Sheriffs, State and Local Police, and the many variations of 3 letter agencies :) It is a given that they are supposed to be highly trained and professional. I, like all of us weren't there so I can only make assumptions about what happened. I doubt that Dr. Dao was really a physical threat to them at any point and I think most people would agree. Therefore I cant imagine anyone would say that physically assaulting him to the point where he was bleeding was the appropriate action. Certainly with three "alleged" police there they should have acted differently. I just don't understand why nobody...nobody meaning the Police, the Crew, Gate Agents, other passengers didn't just ask someone else to volunteer. Why didn't the doctor simply stand up and say to everyone something like, "please everyone I am a doctor and its very important that I get to SDF tonight to go see my patients. Please can anyone who has the flexibility to arrive tomorrow take my spot." The story just doesn't completely add up to me. Now it's being reported that he may not have even been going to see patients? I dont know if thats true but it sure does sound suspicious. I mean SDF has great hospitals, do they need to fly in this Dr. to see patients...A Dr. who might even have his license suspended as some have reported? I am a little sceptical but I do not have the facts at this point.
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mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:14 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
bogota wrote:
sergegva wrote:

For no reason? Why?


For what I can gather in by reading here from some people it is simply because in the USA the police can do what ever and nobody can question them. Kind of what is called martial law in most other countries. Something is very wrong when people who do nothing wrong are beaten up by police simply because an airline staff member can call up the police when they need to enforce their own incompetence. If they overbooked and had to sort out the problem, police should never get involved unless somebody is threatening or posing danger to somebody else. Delaying an aircraft because he was randomly picked is not his problem but the airlines´ problem.


I think it's a bit different than that, but ultimately that was the outcome.

I think some people believe that a business (or home, etc) you their property and they should ultimately be able to tell someone to leave it. If that person has a contract to be on that property, some people believe that the business (or homeowner, etc) should - rightly or wrongly - be able to tell someone to get off their property. When that person says "Sorry - I ain't leaving", some people believe that the business (or homeowner, etc) should - rightly or wrongly - be able to have the person removed from their property, forcibly or otherwise. some people believe that the person who has had their contract breached (or whatever) should then have legal righs and perhaps additional damages owed to them.

That is different than saying that the airline was right or moral in what they did, and it is different than saying that the police were right or moral in how they handled it. However, I some people believe that that can be worked out peacefully after the fact rather than resist leaving their property.

Whether that is legally sound is a whole 'nother story, but at the end of the day, some people believe that you should be able to decide that you no longer want someone on your property and they should comply, even if they have legal recourse later.

However, this all started with a lousy system, probably lousy station management (if not higher), and a lousy gate agent. It really never should have gotten to where it did, and more should and could have been done. I like Trump's comment about it. It really was a simple dollars and cents exercise that should never have involved the police. Period.


But what all of those people forget, is the contract. When there is a contract giving somebody the right to be on your property, you can not just use force, or call somebody to use force to get him of your property. You have to go to a court and get a decision.

When the guy has not boarded and he is being denied boarding, he needs force to get on the airplane. When he has boarded and the airline wants him off and he denies, the airline has to use force to get him off. The force is the part that is not OK. If he has boarded, sitting in his assigned seat and the airline wants his seat, bad luck, sue him if you think you win.
Last edited by mjoelnir on Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
Keith2004
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:21 am

 
ubeema
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:33 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
bralo20 wrote:
And even this new video proves that the doctor remained calm, he wasn't a threat, he just declined an unreasonable request and subsequently disobeyed an unlawful order.

If a request or an order is reasonable is not the call of any passenger aboard a comercial aircraft. If you are told to get up, you get up, period. We live under the rule of law and if it indeed proves to be unreasonable or unlawful you will be compensated later.

Any adult that needs to be dragged off a flight and failing to comply poses a threat.

Honestly, I so feel for the poor officer who did nothing but his job. I am also deeply disturbed by the reactions of people on here and worldwide. Again, aboard an airplane you do as you are told. And if you are told to leave you leave. You will be compensated later. You're plans for the other day or your profession is completely irrelevant in this kind of situation.

Now the one who only did his job in a very proper way gets fired and fried while an unreasonably childish acting adult will be rewarded compensation for pain and suffering that he inflicted on himself. Crazy world!


I'm gonna play devils advocate and pose to you a situation that is similar to the one of the united passenger was found in. Rosa Parks, did the same thing as Dr.Dao, the police told her to get out of her seat so someone more important could sit down, she refused and was dragged off the bus. Now would you say that what she did was wrong, and that we should all feel sorry for the officers because they were just doing their job. What if Rosa Parks would have just gotten up from her seat the civil rights movement might have never happened, if Dr. Dao would have just gotten up from his seat no one would be talking about this right now, and because he decided to stay in his seat we are having real conversation about what needs to be done to put more regulation on airlines. If you see injustice being done you stand up for what's right, that's what Rosa Parks did and look what happened as a result of it. Mindlessly following orders doesn't get any serious change done in the world.


Well said Midwestindy :checkmark:
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:34 am

bogota wrote:
sergegva wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
Again, aboard an airplane you do as you are told. And if you are told to leave you leave.


For no reason? Why?


For what I can gather in by reading here from some people it is simply because in the USA the police can do what ever and nobody can question them. Kind of what is called martial law in most other countries. Something is very wrong when people who do nothing wrong are beaten up by police simply because an airline staff member can call up the police when they need to enforce their own incompetence. If they overbooked and had to sort out the problem, police should never get involved unless somebody is threatening or posing danger to somebody else. Delaying an aircraft because he was randomly picked is not his problem but the airlines´ problem.



they certainly can ask you to leave private property.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:37 am

mjoelnir wrote:
But what all of those people forget, is the contract.


Sorry - my reply seemed to have been deleted. What I was saying was that not only did I mention the contract but I also alluded to the illegality of booting someone. I was just sharing one point of view.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:55 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
But what all of those people forget, is the contract.


Sorry - my reply seemed to have been deleted. What I was saying was that not only did I mention the contract but I also alluded to the illegality of booting someone. I was just sharing one point of view.


To add, while not directly relevant, I will share that I'm aware that there is a process for grievances. My dad was living with a woman who had moved in with him. it was his house/mortgage. He bought a car - in his name - and let her drive it. Unfortunately for a long time she had an addition to pain killers and one day she got tired of him bringing it up and she called the police and reported that he'd abused her. He was forcibly removed from his own property and was not allowed to return even to get his belongings. Not only did he have to pay to rent an apartment for six months while it worked through the system, he had to pay for his mortgage while she got to continue living in his home, he had to continue to make the car payments on the car that she got to continue to drive, and assorted other things.

So, I get that there's a process and sometimes it's unfair, even to the property owner. I'm not arguing the legalities as much as just sharing a point of view that some people have when it comes to private property rights. It's to illustrate why some people might think the man should have begrudgingly left. That doesn't make it legally or morally right, it just is to illustrate why some people are responding the way they are with this.

Anyhow, i'm going back in my cave.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:19 am

It has been mentioned that United and all the other airlines NOT be able to overbook flights. So sop up on THIS! If the Airlines cannot overbook flights?
Then WHAT do you think will happen to YOUR Fares ?? Because I can tell you. They're going UP!! The majors are used to flying FULL. They're NOT going to give that up.
 
kalvado
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:19 am

Stratofish wrote:
NorthTerminal wrote:
(...)It absolutely should not have came to this. That it did come to this and the ground crew did not use whatever discretion they had to offer someone an acceptable incentive is ludicrous!


Yes, I do agree.

Many years ago my signature line read "The lonesome communist of A.net" and I still am a hard leftie. In my world equality comes first and profits come at the very last. Just to rectify perspective. But with equality and the good of the collective in mind. The behaviour of Mr. Dao was unwarranted and at least as wrong as the actions (or lack thereof) of UA that led to this kind of situaton. And allowing a 69 year old to behave like a 4 year old has nothing to do with humanity IMHO. But since my view seems to be the minority I probably just have to accept this world is going down the drain... :(

I heavily aplogize in advance - I don't want it to become anywhere near attacking you personally; and I promise not to continue this discussion in any way if you have a slightest objection - only reason for my question is pure curiosity.
And here is the question: which portion of your income goes to charities or other methods of wealth redistribution - other than mandatory taxes?
Reason I am asking is because I've seen a lot of people who would love to be generous, but would reconsider once they themselves become significantly affected as a result. I just want to understand how far you would go yourself in helping out others...
 
ubeema
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:33 am

bob75013 wrote:
AR385 wrote:

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.



Expensive and unnecessary - absolutely.

rebrand - absolutely not needed. Chevy had it's ignition problem that killed dozens. The brand is sill here. Ford had it's early tire problem on the Explorer that killed a bunch of people. The brand is still here. VW just cheated across the world with it's diesel cars. The brand is still here. In comparison to those situations, United's is really pretty inconsequential,

As those crises waned and went away, so will this one for United.

It's too early to tell how the brand will be affected. What is unique here is how United fumbled the response. GM, VW owned it as soon as they were caught (can't remember the Ford case). Wells Fargo's fake account scandal is the closest this PR fiasco come too in terms of public response (CEO and VP in charge of fake accounts are gone and $75 million compensation clawed back!).

OM can still screw it up on April 30 with the announcement of the internal investigation and policies reviews changes. Wish him luck.
I think airlines travel in packs(No pun intended!), so whatever decision they make regarding IDB going forward may affect the industry as a whole, and the brand could likely take a hit. Wait and see.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:00 am

bob75013 wrote:
[Make ya a bet that in maybe two weeks that the outcry drops by about 90%. There will be other stories and causes that take over. That' just the way it is because it's hard to sustain this level of outrage...

Yeah, you may be right. But in a hundred years this incident will still be on a dozen Youtube sites and be high on your list when you google UA.

I just googled "United Airlines". On top came united.com. Of the next four links, three were about this incident, while the fourth was the Danish Wikipedia site about UA.

Reading some of the posts on this thread made by airline employees one gets the feeling that they really enjoy the fun of flying around in their silver birds, or they would enjoy it if it wasn't for those d... and irritating passengers they have to drag along.

Many industries have had to adjust to the modern day situation of fast and world wide spreading of information on social media. Some airlines seem to be the very slowest businesses in this respect. Let the fastest of them survive.

UA has now come to the point that during the next decade at least, whenever they experience the slightest mishap, then this incident will be linked. They will have to keep their a$$ totally clean during many years to come to be able to overcome this.

The president said it best. BTW, how often has the president of the United States of America expressed his meaning about a denied boarding?

If I had been a Chicago police officer, then I would have told the UA captain: "Go and find a plane which can accommodate the tickets you sold, or find a second plane. Overbooking is not a police job". I do hope that it's the way the police works when I am the one paying their salaries.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:05 am

Stratofish wrote:
The behaviour of Mr. Dao was unwarranted and at least as wrong as the actions (or lack thereof) of UA that led to this kind of situaton. And allowing a 69 year old to behave like a 4 year old has nothing to do with humanity IMHO. But since my view seems to be the minority I probably just have to accept this world is going down the drain... :(


Mr. Muñoz, now having given the matter mature thought, disagrees with you.

Dr. Dao was not acting like a 4-year-old. He was acting like a customer who had done nothing wrong (according to Mr. Muñoz), who was entitled to sit in that seat and not be molested (according to Mr. Muñoz), but was nevertheless treated horribly (according to Mr. Muñoz).

Everyone on this thread who has claimed Dr. Dao did wrong is wrong (according to Mr. Muñoz).

Refusal to obey an unlawful command is not wrong.

Passenger have rights. Dr. Dao's rights were impinged upon and the injuries inflicted upon him were unlawful.

The airline and the police, or their insurers, will pay a great deal of money in an attempt to right the wrongs.

It is to be hoped that all the legalistic a.netters will learn a lesson from this.

Airlines do not have the right to breach contracts at will.

Air crews do not have the right to maltreat customers who have done nothing wrong.

Forcing paying customers to give up seats for airline personnel is wrong. It is also foolish.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
ytz
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:18 am

Stratofish wrote:
NorthTerminal wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
If a request or an order is reasonable is not the call of any passenger aboard a comercial aircraft. If you are told to get up, you get up, period. We live under the rule of law and if it indeed proves to be unreasonable or unlawful you will be compensated later.

Any adult that needs to be dragged off a flight and failing to comply poses a threat.

Honestly, I so feel for the poor officer who did nothing but his job. I am also deeply disturbed by the reactions of people on here and worldwide. Again, aboard an airplane you do as you are told. And if you are told to leave you leave. You will be compensated later. You're plans for the other day or your profession is completely irrelevant in this kind of situation.

Now the one who only did his job in a very proper way gets fired and fried while an unreasonably childish acting adult will be rewarded compensation for pain and suffering that he inflicted on himself. Crazy world!


I think that you have over simplified the situation. I agree that Mr Dao's actions were not the most sensible, but do you really feel that the outcome that we have seen was warranted? You again seem to imply that he posed a safety issue. He was sat there having done everything expected of him and because of a commercial imperative was asked to give up his seat. He refused and suddenly his refusal becomes a safety issue. You cannot invent safety issues because it suits your financial imperative.

I am not saying that I would have behaved the way he did, but if I was the supervisor on the gate, I would have addressed the situation by attempting to find another volunteer with a financial incentive. The officer involved should have applied better judgement and his inability to do so does not mix well with the authority granted to him by his position.

The refusal became and is a safety issue. It simply does not matter the reason. I, too, think the whole situation was unfortunate and avoidable. But behaving like that is just never(!) the right thing to do. As such he displayed the he might be a risk and using force was very warrented IMHO.


Laughable. Good luck finding a judge who will agree that a refusal to comply with a problem you invented by negating a contract you agreed to, should result in either criminal or civil penalties for the other party. Let United or the airport PD try and press charges if they think like you. The comments from the judge on dismissal would be pure gold.
 
ytz
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:33 am

strfyr51 wrote:
It has been mentioned that United and all the other airlines NOT be able to overbook flights. So sop up on THIS! If the Airlines cannot overbook flights?
Then WHAT do you think will happen to YOUR Fares ?? Because I can tell you. They're going UP!! The majors are used to flying FULL. They're NOT going to give that up.


1) Fares won't be going up that much.

2) They can always change policy to deny refunds for no-shows, that should compensate the need for overbooking.

Many countries have rules against overbooking. Fares aren't substantially higher there.
 
Flighty
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:01 am

AR385 wrote:

Oscarito needs to go. This will not go away and his head will need to roll. While he may not be personally responsible, people will identify him as the man in charge when this event happened.

And in due time, a rebrand will be necessary. Since this fiasco will be remembered for years and the "United" brand will forever be associated with it,

What an unnecessary, expensive and stupid blunder.


He will go. Unnecessary? You say that, but nobody thought to totally revamp the USA's boarding process before this. I think it had to happen just like this.
 
AirCalSNA
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:43 am

bogota wrote:
sergegva wrote:
Stratofish wrote:
Again, aboard an airplane you do as you are told. And if you are told to leave you leave.


For no reason? Why?


For what I can gather in by reading here from some people it is simply because in the USA the police can do what ever and nobody can question them. Kind of what is called martial law in most other countries. Something is very wrong when people who do nothing wrong are beaten up by police simply because an airline staff member can call up the police when they need to enforce their own incompetence. If they overbooked and had to sort out the problem, police should never get involved unless somebody is threatening or posing danger to somebody else. Delaying an aircraft because he was randomly picked is not his problem but the airlines´ problem.


I think you have a very accurate perspective on the real problem here, which is not the rules about overbooking or whether enough money was offered or whether the doctor was wrong by refusing to leave his seat. This was purely a civil, business dispute between the airline and one of its customers ... no crime was being committed and police should have remained in stand-by mode to make sure there was no violence or other criminal activity, at which point they can and should step in. United and the passenger needed to work it out and if United could not convince a fourth paying customer to get off the plane they should have simply pulled one or more of its dead-head employees off rather than use the police as enforcer-thugs. If airline employees truly have unfettered power to have anyone dragged by police off of a plane without articulating any behavior constituting a crime then the laws need to change.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:57 am

Just open up the contract part about removal of passengers. And reserve yourself the right to remove any passenger for any reason before take-off as the airline sees fit.
 
QXAS
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:53 am

Don't have time to read through a 32 page thread, so if this or a similar post has already been posted my apologies.
Social media is outraged by this event. So my question is, in a period of transition at SFO, will the VX market threatening to switch to UA be so outraged that they'll go straight back to the combined AS/VX? What other lasting impacts if any do people see from this event or will people barely remember it a year from now?
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
Andy33
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:46 am

hoya wrote:
So now if I'm a drunk and extremely disruptive passenger, can I resist being removed from a flight given that I am on board and paid for the seat? Slippery slope here...


No, because being drunk and disruptive on board an aircraft is a criminal offence in just about every jurisdiction on earth. United reports that an offence is being committed, the police attend, satisfy themselves that the person is indeed drunk and disruptive, arrest and remove him/her, and he/she ends up in court.
The CoC covers United against attempts by the drunk to claim their money back, or compensation, once they've sobered up, they don't rely on it for the removal in this situation.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:56 am

A question to those suggesting (and I'm not arguing with your opinion) that the gentleman should have got off the flight and then argued the toss with United.

Have you ever tried this yourself? Once you leave that plane a great deal of your bargaining power has gone. You have already suffered the loss, the airline has not and you are at their whim as to what compensation you may or may not get. Remember, while you are put to all this inconvenience, you did absolutely nothing wrong.

Sure you might have some laws on your side, but there is a very good chance that you don't know them, a very good chance that you will not be told them by the airline and perhaps a good chance that you don't have the financial means or will to take on a huge corporation.

The airlines (and other industries too but let's not go there) know this. It has finally come to bite them (or at least United) in the backside. Maybe it is about time.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:59 am

Has anyone concluded why the Dr. was let go off and re entered the aircraft?

Did the cops realise their mistake and let him go? did a UA employee finally realise the situation was unwarranted and requested the cops to let him go?
 
United1
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:05 am

Virtual737 wrote:
A question to those suggesting (and I'm not arguing with your opinion) that the gentleman should have got off the flight and then argued the toss with United.

Have you ever tried this yourself? Once you leave that plane a great deal of your bargaining power has gone. You have already suffered the loss, the airline has not and you are at their whim as to what compensation you may or may not get. Remember, while you are put to all this inconvenience, you did absolutely nothing wrong.


The issue with that is once you are asked to get off the plane you have already lost all of your bargaining power...the aircraft will not leave with you on it. You are actually not at their whim compensation wise when it comes to involuntary denied boarding as there are federal regulations in place that spell out what compensation you will receive.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:16 am

AsianoAmerican community protested at ORD yesterday against Police brutality, nice to see them now onboard with other affected minority communities
 
United1
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:22 am

ytz wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
It has been mentioned that United and all the other airlines NOT be able to overbook flights. So sop up on THIS! If the Airlines cannot overbook flights?
Then WHAT do you think will happen to YOUR Fares ?? Because I can tell you. They're going UP!! The majors are used to flying FULL. They're NOT going to give that up.


1) Fares won't be going up that much.

2) They can always change policy to deny refunds for no-shows, that should compensate the need for overbooking.

Many countries have rules against overbooking. Fares aren't substantially higher there.


I'm not sure that stopping overbooking is the answer...here is why B6 doesn't overbook yet they have a higher involuntary denied boarding rate than UA does (there's has to do with substituting smaller aircraft for larger ones and bumping passengers.) There are always going to be reasons why passengers don't get the seat they paid for and while that is unfortunate the airlines are rather good at managing overbooking situations and getting people where they want to be.

Here is what I think will probably come out of the review:
Increasing the amount of compensation UA agents are allowed to offer...that alone should do the trick.
Clearer guidelines on what they should and should not call PD about.
A better method of communicating between UA mainline and the express carriers when they may need to hold seats back for deadheading crew members.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:38 am

Stratofish wrote:
Again, if the crew tells you to leave, you leave. it is not your call to judge on the issue while inside the aircraft.


In this case everyone knew exactly what the issue was.

Stratofish wrote:
I will acknowledge I am not a lawyer but I fail to see any legal wrongdoing by the LEO. If you don't obey the crew you are in the wrong, period.


Aside from brutally assaulting a 69 year old man then dragging his unconscious body along the ground? Which law were these "LEOs" enforcing?


So, the CEO of United admits they were completely wrong (and that the Doctor did nothing wrong) and the three "LEOs" involved have been suspended. Yet some here are still defending them to the hilt? :rotfl:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:41 am

United1 wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
A question to those suggesting (and I'm not arguing with your opinion) that the gentleman should have got off the flight and then argued the toss with United.

Have you ever tried this yourself? Once you leave that plane a great deal of your bargaining power has gone. You have already suffered the loss, the airline has not and you are at their whim as to what compensation you may or may not get. Remember, while you are put to all this inconvenience, you did absolutely nothing wrong.


The issue with that is once you are asked to get off the plane you have already lost all of your bargaining power...the aircraft will not leave with you on it. You are actually not at their whim compensation wise when it comes to involuntary denied boarding as there are federal regulations in place that spell out what compensation you will receive.


I guess that leads to my main point. Every airline employee that could come anywhere near needing to ask a passenger to revoke their seat should know the compensation rules inside out, back to front. A passenger probably will not know them and it is unreasonable to expect them to know them.

At the point United got to in this case, there were not 4 volunteers prepared to accept United's offer (which I still believe was an $800 voucher, a hotel for the night and a flight ~1 day later). Choosing the 4 lowest fare payers does not take into account those passengers immediate prior history and later plans. They might have been travelling the longest. They might have fixed plans the next day that would be relatively expensive to rebook compared to the offer (and you can't even buy a burger from Maccy D's with an $800 United voucher!).

Just offer, on the plane, exactly what you would HAVE to offer at the counter. 400% of the paid fare up to $1350, a hotel (my word even state that it will be a 4 star hotel) and guaranteed transport on that next flight. Make that 400% or $1350 the compensation that WILL be offered. Not the compensation that might be offered if you know all the laws and are more experienced than me at palming off customers for the lowest cost possible.

Therefore, at the point the airline is in the position to need to look for volunteers, forget all this "maximum of $1350", that always make people think they might be screwed over. In the same way as my broadband provider tells me my speed will be "up to" 100mbps, I inform them that "not working" falls into that remit too.

In other words make the customer believe that you know they are doing you a favour and are being compensated justly for it. Many customers might just volunteer (at a lower offer!) because they are good natured and like to help. Look at them with your authoritarian "this is the way it's gonna be attitude" and you've lost before you've even begun.
 
United1
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:43 am

scbriml wrote:
[quote="Stratofish"ing?


So, the CEO of United admits they were completely wrong (and that the Doctor did nothing wrong) and the three "LEOs" involved have been suspended. Yet some here are still defending them to the hilt? :rotfl:


Were they suspended for removing him from the aircraft or how they removed him from the aircraft?
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:03 am

United1 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
[quote="Stratofish"ing?


So, the CEO of United admits they were completely wrong (and that the Doctor did nothing wrong) and the three "LEOs" involved have been suspended. Yet some here are still defending them to the hilt? :rotfl:


Were they suspended for removing him from the aircraft or how they removed him from the aircraft?


Both perhaps.
 
cpd
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:14 am

UA launches new drag on drag off seating:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/satire/un ... vim0q.html

And the legal eagles keep defending the indefensible? A catastrophe. Everywhere yo browse the net something related to this incident seems to pop up.
 
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GlenP
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:33 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most countries, the police would normally only get involved in a civil dispute, which is what this incident was; regardless of claims that the by refusing to accept the airline's interpretation of the contract between them, as vendor and the passenger, as a paying customer, the latter had become a trespasser ad was committing a criminal act, unless they were acting under the instruction of a court.(In such circumstances it is to ensure compliance with the court's decision and not acting as a direct agent of either party in the dispute.)

Is it normal for Law Enforcement Officers and agencies to intervene in such non-criminal incidents and to , in effect, act as the enforcers of corporate decisions?

One hopes that this is not the case, as it reduces those who are sworn to uphold the law, impartially, to little more than enforcers for those with the power and money to demand their services. If that were the case then the implications are such that they would not only impact on disputes between a business and its customers but would mean the police, etc., could be utilised to deploy string arm tactics on the whim of the former.

Hypothetical situation,

You, as an airline employee, or more likely as a group of employees, have a legitimate grievance against the airline, an example being an attempt impose a new contract on existing employees without their agreement. In such circumstances you would be quite within your rights to withdraw your labour, i.e. strike, or in this instance you opt to work to rule.

The airline decides that the this working to rule is detrimental to their needs and calls in the police, to forcibly remove you from your place of work; bearing in mind that you are still strictly adhering to the existing contract between yourself and your employer, and whilst you may be causing inconvenience to your employer (the buggerance factor as we used to refer to it in squaddy-ese), you have not actually committed any criminal acts.

The police immediately attempt to implement your employer's request, despite there being no instruction from any higher legal authority to do so, and, having found instructions and threats fail to achieve the desired result, resort to violence to forcibly remove you from the premises.

Not a pleasant scenario, to say the least, but one which those who are advocating the notion that the airline had the right to interpret the contract between themselves and the passenger, in the real life incident under discussion, and believe anything other than supine acceptance of said corporate decision to be a criminal act leave themselves and thousands of others open to.

Not sure they'd be quite so unquestioning in their support for the airline and airport police's position, should it later turn around and bite them on the proverbial bum.
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
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seahawk
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:35 am

They probably were called to remove an unruly passenger.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:42 am

strfyr51 wrote:
It has been mentioned that United and all the other airlines NOT be able to overbook flights. So sop up on THIS! If the Airlines cannot overbook flights?
Then WHAT do you think will happen to YOUR Fares ?? Because I can tell you. They're going UP!! The majors are used to flying FULL. They're NOT going to give that up.


Most LCCs do not do overbooking... Never.
How about this?
They work around a different model.
How about the big 3 finally up their game and get serious about putting the customer first?
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:59 am

It's not like the airlines haven't increased fares. They charge for just about everything now, including bags, early seat selection, food, beverages, carry-on bags etc. If airlines don't come up with a proper plan to not do IDB, let them increase fares and market will deal with it. To kick people off to maximize their profit, and for their operational/commercial reasons without taking into account the difficulties the removed passengers have, or offering them proper compensation is plain stupid and should be illegal.
 
Olddog
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:02 am

Reading this thread, i got the feeling that airlines workers have been brainwashed and think that acting like total bully, as they are always right, is the way to go....
 
Virtual737
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Re: Another United gaffe - forces doctor off plane

Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:08 am

oldannyboy wrote:
How about the big 3 finally up their game and get serious about putting the customer first?


I am not a moderator here but I would suggest you stick to arguments that have at least a slim chance of coming into being ;)

Olddog wrote:
Reading this thread, i got the feeling that airlines workers have been brainwashed and think that acting like total bully, as they are always right, is the way to go....


I would suggest you've got it spot on.

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Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos