ANA787
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AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:14 pm

 
nadavatar64
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:36 pm

That definitely showing that DAL is not going anywhere! I wonder what is the timing for those flights.
 
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enilria
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:42 pm

With the exception of SJC, exactly as I predicted. The big question is where are the DCA/LGA slots going????? Popcorn with butter please...
 
jbs2886
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:42 pm

enilria wrote:
With the exception of SJC, exactly as I predicted. The big question is where are the DCA/LGA slots going????? Popcorn with butter please...


The PR is clear that they are staying, moving to E175s.

Edit: your most recent prediction, yes. If we use your first prediction, you were WAY off! :lol:
 
steex
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:43 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
With the exception of SJC, exactly as I predicted. The big question is where are the DCA/LGA slots going????? Popcorn with butter please...


The PR is clear that they are staying, moving to E175s.


Most of this new DAL flying is E75, so I guess that could make sense as a bridge.

AS 3360 SEA 09:45 DAL 15:45 E75
VX 1770 SEA 13:28 DAL 19:43 320
VX 1765 DAL 10:15 SEA 12:43 320
AS 3379 DAL 15:39 SEA 17:54 E75

AS 3308 PDX 06:00 DAL 11:44 E75
AS 3307 DAL 10:35 PDX 12:40 E75

AS 3328 SJC 14:40 DAL 19:59 E75
AS 3329 DAL 13:25 SJC 15:15 E75

AS 3306 SAN 07:45 DAL 12:45 E75
AS 3305 DAL 20:39 SAN 21:54 E75
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:58 pm

Pardon if this is an obvious question and I just missed it, but where is AS getting all the aircraft?

Is QX not retireing the Q-400s that were to be replaced by the E175s? If that's the case, where are they getting the pilots?

Is OO bringing on more aircraft to fly in AS colors?
 
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usxguy
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:02 pm

The use of AS metal on LGA/DCA will mean more traffic opportunities for the AA flyers in DFW. I seriously think AS needs to put mainline planes on these routes. The AA crowd in DFW happens to like the AS product, and couple in benefits for EXP and EQMs on AS (NOT VX), I think DAL is going to become a very busy spoke for the new AS/VX.

background: AA flyers get no benefits on VX flights. Heck, even AS MVP G/ 75ks get no real benefits. But AA flyers get status miles/points when flying on AS, as well as elite benefits.
xx
 
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enilria
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:09 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
With the exception of SJC, exactly as I predicted. The big question is where are the DCA/LGA slots going????? Popcorn with butter please...


The PR is clear that they are staying, moving to E175s.

Edit: your most recent prediction, yes. If we use your first prediction, you were WAY off! :lol:

I still am surprised they are staying at DAL at all. I was correct that they were oversubscribed on mainline planes for Fall. This reveals how they fixed that. I think if they are allowed to sell it to DL, that would be the best option for everybody. Helping DL may not be something they feel comfortable doing, however, and the only other carriers who might want the gates (LCCs) probably won't pay very much for them.

EDIT
OK, it appears they are keeping DCA/LGA
Last edited by enilria on Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:16 pm

No surprises here for me. The presser days 18 daily departures at DAL, so AAG will be running 9 flights per day per gate. Vegas is gone. The EMJs will be used on the DAL-LGA/DCA routes when the dust settles, and although not appearing on these sked releases, I still assume there will be, next year, direct SAN-DCA service, etc.

I would imagine that eventually we will start seeing 737s on some of these new routes but at this point in time, I don't believe there is availability of mainline a/c. These EMJs are mentioned to be provided by SkyWest, not QX.

Alaska continues to move ahead at a blistering rate! What a show!

bb
 
jbs2886
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:17 pm

enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
With the exception of SJC, exactly as I predicted. The big question is where are the DCA/LGA slots going????? Popcorn with butter please...


The PR is clear that they are staying, moving to E175s.

Edit: your most recent prediction, yes. If we use your first prediction, you were WAY off! :lol:

I still am surprised they are staying at DAL at all. I was correct that they were oversubscribed on mainline planes for Fall. This reveals how they fixed that. I think if they are allowed to sell it to DL, that would be the best option for everybody. Helping DL may not be something they feel comfortable doing, however, and the only other carriers who might want the gates (LCCs) probably won't pay very much for them.

So, the big question is where do the LGA/DCA slots go? This is my order from most likely to least likely:
() They add an intermediate point at a medium sized city where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: IND/OMA/MCI/STL/MKE. I think these will be difficult, but decent.
() They add an intermediate point at an OA hub where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: MSP/DTW/ORD. On paper this is the best option, but dependent on reaction.
() Leased to other airlines. This would fly in the face of their public statements about the value to the network of these slots.
() They fly mainline to a place like CLE (because CLE-West is too far for E175s) or DEN. Mainline is higher risk financially.
() They fly low fare leisure (Florida) to occupy the slots. It's been done many times by other airlines, but basically wastes money with no real end game. It's just stalling. You might as well sublease the slots.
() They fly something kinda unexpected in the East that is completely independent of the West network and not a leisure market: RDU/ORF/PVD/BDL/BOS. I think these would suck without a code share.


I'm not sure why you're confused, the LGA/DCA slots are NOT going anywhere. The flights will be moved from A320s to E175s.
 
USAavdork
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:18 pm

Did anyone else happen to notice the routemap in the link at the top of this post? Should we be expecting DAL-DEN/ATL/ORD/BOS/ ANC next? (I can't figure out how to attach a pic of the routemap).
 
jbs2886
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:19 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

The PR is clear that they are staying, moving to E175s.

Edit: your most recent prediction, yes. If we use your first prediction, you were WAY off! :lol:

I still am surprised they are staying at DAL at all. I was correct that they were oversubscribed on mainline planes for Fall. This reveals how they fixed that. I think if they are allowed to sell it to DL, that would be the best option for everybody. Helping DL may not be something they feel comfortable doing, however, and the only other carriers who might want the gates (LCCs) probably won't pay very much for them.

So, the big question is where do the LGA/DCA slots go? This is my order from most likely to least likely:
() They add an intermediate point at a medium sized city where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: IND/OMA/MCI/STL/MKE. I think these will be difficult, but decent.
() They add an intermediate point at an OA hub where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: MSP/DTW/ORD. On paper this is the best option, but dependent on reaction.
() Leased to other airlines. This would fly in the face of their public statements about the value to the network of these slots.
() They fly mainline to a place like CLE (because CLE-West is too far for E175s) or DEN. Mainline is higher risk financially.
() They fly low fare leisure (Florida) to occupy the slots. It's been done many times by other airlines, but basically wastes money with no real end game. It's just stalling. You might as well sublease the slots.
() They fly something kinda unexpected in the East that is completely independent of the West network and not a leisure market: RDU/ORF/PVD/BDL/BOS. I think these would suck without a code share.


I'm not sure why you're confused, the LGA/DCA slots are NOT going anywhere. The flights will be moved from A320s to E175s.


Here is the quote:

Starting this summer, Virgin America jets will be replaced with a 76-seat E175 jet in two Love Field markets – New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport. On Aug. 27, three-times daily service to New York's LaGuardia Airport will operate using an E175 and increase to four daily flights on Oct. 28. Starting Feb. 18, twice-daily service to Reagan National Airport will also be replaced with an E175. The third daily Love Field-Washington Reagan National daily trip will continue to be operated by Virgin America until March 11, when SkyWest will take over the evening flight. As part of these schedule changes, Virgin America will permanently exit Love Field-Las Vegas on Aug. 26.

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-04- ... and-Oregon
 
jbs2886
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:20 pm

USAavdork wrote:
Did anyone else happen to notice the routemap in the link at the top of this post? Should we be expecting DAL-DEN/ATL/ORD/BOS/ ANC next? (I can't figure out how to attach a pic of the routemap).


I see what you are saying; the cities are in larger font and bolded. I think it's more of just focus cities with AA (although excluding Charlotte and PHL), but not sure about ATL.
 
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usxguy
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:21 pm

LGA/DCA aren't being touched, nor is LAX/SFO. The actual press release said that DAL will be up to 18 flights a day and that the LGA/DCA ops will transition to E175 service. That's why I said I believe AS should put mainline 737s on that route. With the AS-AA relationship, AS can now build off AA traffic that would rather fly out of DAL if/when the flights/fares make sense. I know many AA flyers who will gladly hop on AS, but don't fly WN or VX right now because they don't get their status points/EQM/EQS, which now will be possible when flown by AS metal.
xx
 
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enilria
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:32 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

The PR is clear that they are staying, moving to E175s.

Edit: your most recent prediction, yes. If we use your first prediction, you were WAY off! :lol:

I still am surprised they are staying at DAL at all. I was correct that they were oversubscribed on mainline planes for Fall. This reveals how they fixed that. I think if they are allowed to sell it to DL, that would be the best option for everybody. Helping DL may not be something they feel comfortable doing, however, and the only other carriers who might want the gates (LCCs) probably won't pay very much for them.

So, the big question is where do the LGA/DCA slots go? This is my order from most likely to least likely:
() They add an intermediate point at a medium sized city where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: IND/OMA/MCI/STL/MKE. I think these will be difficult, but decent.
() They add an intermediate point at an OA hub where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: MSP/DTW/ORD. On paper this is the best option, but dependent on reaction.
() Leased to other airlines. This would fly in the face of their public statements about the value to the network of these slots.
() They fly mainline to a place like CLE (because CLE-West is too far for E175s) or DEN. Mainline is higher risk financially.
() They fly low fare leisure (Florida) to occupy the slots. It's been done many times by other airlines, but basically wastes money with no real end game. It's just stalling. You might as well sublease the slots.
() They fly something kinda unexpected in the East that is completely independent of the West network and not a leisure market: RDU/ORF/PVD/BDL/BOS. I think these would suck without a code share.


I'm not sure why you're confused, the LGA/DCA slots are NOT going anywhere. The flights will be moved from A320s to E175s.

I don't see anything in that link about LGA/DCA. Where is that mentioned?

EDIT: So that was not in the OP. It is this just posted doc. I'm very surprised as you can see. Well, goo luck to them. Less capacity will help. Not sure it will make it profitable, though, and it's a long flight on an E175 compared to the other options. Not sure it will do any better.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-04- ... and-Oregon

Starting this summer, Virgin America jets will be replaced with a 76-seat E175 jet in two Love Field markets – New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport. On Aug. 27, three-times daily service to New York's LaGuardia Airport will operate using an E175 and increase to four daily flights on Oct. 28. Starting Feb. 18, twice-daily service to Reagan National Airport will also be replaced with an E175. The third daily Love Field-Washington Reagan National daily trip will continue to be operated by Virgin America until March 11, when SkyWest will take over the evening flight.
Last edited by enilria on Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:34 pm

USAavdork wrote:
Did anyone else happen to notice the routemap in the link at the top of this post? Should we be expecting DAL-DEN/ATL/ORD/BOS/ ANC next? (I can't figure out how to attach a pic of the routemap).

DALANC is over 3000 miles. Maybe a through flight through SEA to ANC. I think well see ANCSFO at some point.
 
jbs2886
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:36 pm

enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
I still am surprised they are staying at DAL at all. I was correct that they were oversubscribed on mainline planes for Fall. This reveals how they fixed that. I think if they are allowed to sell it to DL, that would be the best option for everybody. Helping DL may not be something they feel comfortable doing, however, and the only other carriers who might want the gates (LCCs) probably won't pay very much for them.

So, the big question is where do the LGA/DCA slots go? This is my order from most likely to least likely:
() They add an intermediate point at a medium sized city where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: IND/OMA/MCI/STL/MKE. I think these will be difficult, but decent.
() They add an intermediate point at an OA hub where they can through passengers to the West with 175s: MSP/DTW/ORD. On paper this is the best option, but dependent on reaction.
() Leased to other airlines. This would fly in the face of their public statements about the value to the network of these slots.
() They fly mainline to a place like CLE (because CLE-West is too far for E175s) or DEN. Mainline is higher risk financially.
() They fly low fare leisure (Florida) to occupy the slots. It's been done many times by other airlines, but basically wastes money with no real end game. It's just stalling. You might as well sublease the slots.
() They fly something kinda unexpected in the East that is completely independent of the West network and not a leisure market: RDU/ORF/PVD/BDL/BOS. I think these would suck without a code share.


I'm not sure why you're confused, the LGA/DCA slots are NOT going anywhere. The flights will be moved from A320s to E175s.

I don't see anything in that link about LGA/DCA. Where is that mentioned?

EDIT: So that was not in the OP. It is this just posted doc. I'm very surprised as you can see. Well, goo luck to them. Less capacity will help. Not sure it will make it profitable, though, and it's a long flight on an E175 compared to the other options. Not sure it will do any better.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-04- ... and-Oregon

Starting this summer, Virgin America jets will be replaced with a 76-seat E175 jet in two Love Field markets – New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport. On Aug. 27, three-times daily service to New York's LaGuardia Airport will operate using an E175 and increase to four daily flights on Oct. 28. Starting Feb. 18, twice-daily service to Reagan National Airport will also be replaced with an E175. The third daily Love Field-Washington Reagan National daily trip will continue to be operated by Virgin America until March 11, when SkyWest will take over the evening flight.


Yes, I posted it above in reply #12.
 
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enilria
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:50 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
enilria wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

I'm not sure why you're confused, the LGA/DCA slots are NOT going anywhere. The flights will be moved from A320s to E175s.

I don't see anything in that link about LGA/DCA. Where is that mentioned?

EDIT: So that was not in the OP. It is this just posted doc. I'm very surprised as you can see. Well, goo luck to them. Less capacity will help. Not sure it will make it profitable, though, and it's a long flight on an E175 compared to the other options. Not sure it will do any better.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-04- ... and-Oregon

Starting this summer, Virgin America jets will be replaced with a 76-seat E175 jet in two Love Field markets – New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport. On Aug. 27, three-times daily service to New York's LaGuardia Airport will operate using an E175 and increase to four daily flights on Oct. 28. Starting Feb. 18, twice-daily service to Reagan National Airport will also be replaced with an E175. The third daily Love Field-Washington Reagan National daily trip will continue to be operated by Virgin America until March 11, when SkyWest will take over the evening flight.


Yes, I posted it above in reply #12.

In reply #10 I was asked why I was confused before that was posted.
 
vadodara
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:04 pm

In the previous rounds of service changes, VX had reduced LGA/DCA frequencies from DAL. In this round, both are getting down-gauged plus an additional LGA frequency is being added. Makes sense because with the perimeter rule, AS cant do much with the LGA slots.

DCA is another animal; if I recall, VX had 5 slots. So there maybe a slot available. Perhaps, SAN (or SJC/SNA) to DCA with the availability of an aircraft.
 
Noise
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:13 pm

Does this make it official - DAL is AS's first mid-continent focus city?
 
airliner371
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:13 pm

steex wrote:
AS 3360 SEA 09:45 DAL 15:45 E75
VX 1770 SEA 13:28 DAL 19:43 320
VX 1765 DAL 10:15 SEA 12:43 320
AS 3379 DAL 15:39 SEA 17:54 E75

It looks like that second daily A320 SEA service ends in November. So all the new cities will be once daily, with 3x daily service to LAX and SFO, and 4x daily service to LGA and DCA when all is said and done.

vadodara wrote:
In the previous rounds of service changes, VX had reduced LGA/DCA frequencies from DAL. In this round, both are getting down-gauged plus an additional LGA frequency is being added. Makes sense because with the perimeter rule, AS cant do much with the LGA slots.

DCA is another animal; if I recall, VX had 5 slots. So there maybe a slot available. Perhaps, SAN (or SJC/SNA) to DCA with the availability of an aircraft.

No sir. That fifth VX DCA slot is for DCA-SFO and is restricted to that route per DCA perimeter rule.
 
jplatts
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:18 pm

vadodara wrote:
In the previous rounds of service changes, VX had reduced LGA/DCA frequencies from DAL. In this round, both are getting down-gauged plus an additional LGA frequency is being added. Makes sense because with the perimeter rule, AS cant do much with the LGA slots.

DCA is another animal; if I recall, VX had 5 slots. So there maybe a slot available. Perhaps, SAN (or SJC/SNA) to DCA with the availability of an aircraft.


DCA has perimeter restrictions that limit Alaska and Virgin America's ability to operate nonstops to the west coast from DCA. Alaska already has beyond-perimeter exemptions that allow it to operate nonstops to Seattle, Portland, and Los Angeles, and Virgin America already has an beyond-perimeter exemption that allow it to operate a nonstop flight to San Francisco.

Congress would have to pass federal legislation to allow Virgin America to convert one of its within-perimeter slots to a beyond-perimeter slot that can be used for nonstops to SAN, SJC, or SNA.

Any additional beyond-perimeter slots at DCA should probably go to Delta and Southwest before they go to Alaska because both of these airlines currently have fewer beyond-perimeter slots at DCA than American, Alaska, or Frontier do, because Delta and Southwest compete against other airlines that have beyond-perimeter slots at DCA, because both Delta and Southwest would be willing to use additional beyond-perimeter slots on routes that competitors serve nonstop from DCA, and because giving Delta and Southwest additional beyond-perimeter slots would improve competition at DCA. Delta could use an additional beyond-perimeter slot for DCA-SEA nonstops, and Southwest could use additional beyond-perimeter slots at DCA in order to compete against Alaska, American, Frontier, and United.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:20 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Pardon if this is an obvious question and I just missed it, but where is AS getting all the aircraft?

Is QX not retireing the Q-400s that were to be replaced by the E175s? If that's the case, where are they getting the pilots?

Is OO bringing on more aircraft to fly in AS colors?



There doesn't appear to be any plan to retire Q400s until the first batch get returned to lessors in 2018. Sounds like the bulk of QX E175 order may be going to OO, which would explain why these are announced as OO routes instead of QX. https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regi ... s-154.html
 
steex
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:32 pm

airliner371 wrote:
steex wrote:
AS 3360 SEA 09:45 DAL 15:45 E75
VX 1770 SEA 13:28 DAL 19:43 320
VX 1765 DAL 10:15 SEA 12:43 320
AS 3379 DAL 15:39 SEA 17:54 E75

It looks like that second daily A320 SEA service ends in November. So all the new cities will be once daily, with 3x daily service to LAX and SFO, and 4x daily service to LGA and DCA when all is said and done.


Where are you seeing that? The VX service is available on their website through end-of-schedule in March 2018 using the same flight numbers, though slightly tweaked schedules.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:34 pm

usxguy wrote:
The use of AS metal on LGA/DCA will mean more traffic opportunities for the AA flyers in DFW. I seriously think AS needs to put mainline planes on these routes. The AA crowd in DFW happens to like the AS product, and couple in benefits for EXP and EQMs on AS (NOT VX), I think DAL is going to become a very busy spoke for the new AS/VX.

background: AA flyers get no benefits on VX flights. Heck, even AS MVP G/ 75ks get no real benefits. But AA flyers get status miles/points when flying on AS, as well as elite benefits.


Unfortunately for the AA crowd, most fares on AS earn AA EQM's at a reduced rate, unless booked as an AA codeshare.

Source: https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/par ... rlines.jsp
 
airliner371
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:42 pm

steex wrote:
airliner371 wrote:
steex wrote:
AS 3360 SEA 09:45 DAL 15:45 E75
VX 1770 SEA 13:28 DAL 19:43 320
VX 1765 DAL 10:15 SEA 12:43 320
AS 3379 DAL 15:39 SEA 17:54 E75

It looks like that second daily A320 SEA service ends in November. So all the new cities will be once daily, with 3x daily service to LAX and SFO, and 4x daily service to LGA and DCA when all is said and done.


Where are you seeing that? The VX service is available on their website through end-of-schedule in March 2018 using the same flight numbers, though slightly tweaked schedules.

It looks like it was updated but it was not showing the VX flight when I checked.

---
Is that not 19 flights then, rather then the 18 they said?

2 SEA
3 SFO
3 LAX
4 LGA
4 DCA
1 PDX
1 SJC
1 SAN
 
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usxguy
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:57 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Unfortunately for the AA crowd, most fares on AS earn AA EQM's at a reduced rate, unless booked as an AA codeshare.

Source: https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/par ... rlines.jsp


I didn't realize how bad it was for AA on AS. AS on AA its based on fare class (fortunate for me most of my travel is in V, H, & K. The EQDs are what seems to be horrible for AA.

But still - AS can capture travelers who wouldn't otherwise fly on WN. I think that AS/VX will see a bit of a bump with travelers knowing they can credit AAdvantage on the flights out of Love now.
xx
 
tphuang
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:01 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
usxguy wrote:
The use of AS metal on LGA/DCA will mean more traffic opportunities for the AA flyers in DFW. I seriously think AS needs to put mainline planes on these routes. The AA crowd in DFW happens to like the AS product, and couple in benefits for EXP and EQMs on AS (NOT VX), I think DAL is going to become a very busy spoke for the new AS/VX.

background: AA flyers get no benefits on VX flights. Heck, even AS MVP G/ 75ks get no real benefits. But AA flyers get status miles/points when flying on AS, as well as elite benefits.


Unfortunately for the AA crowd, most fares on AS earn AA EQM's at a reduced rate, unless booked as an AA codeshare.

Source: https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/par ... rlines.jsp


yep, the miles and EQD earning are at much lower rate for a EXP. As for the benefits, there is no free upgrades to FC, premium class seating or complimentary snack/alcoholic beverage, so let's not overstate the AA part of this.
 
steex
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:23 pm

airliner371 wrote:
Is that not 19 flights then, rather then the 18 they said?

2 SEA
3 SFO
3 LAX
4 LGA
4 DCA
1 PDX
1 SJC
1 SAN


Per the announcement, DCA is scheduled to be only 3x daily, not 4x daily. I believe AS is still in the process of updating inventory as they are currently showing almost identically timed service by AS and VX during some periods, when I think the E75 is intended to replace the 320.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:07 pm

And so DFW-PDX will remain at 2x daily and DFW-SEA at whatever it currently is?
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm

Wow! AS continues to pleasantly surprise me. It's great to see the 2 DAL gates getting fully utilized now.

DAL-DCA remains, albeit downgauged. AS is fortunate to have several perimeter-exempt DCA slots enabling it to offer nonstop service between D.C.'s preferred airport and all 4 of its major West Coast hubs, so I'm not surprised to see them focused strictly on O&D. However, is going up directly against WN - an airline with massive FFer bases in both the Dallas Metroplex *and* the D.C. area - never mind indirect competitors like AA and UA the best use of the perimeter-restricted DCA slots? I can't help but wonder if these slots could be better used on less competitive routes or perhaps traded away altogether for other scarce assets, like increased access to EWR/JFK/LGA.

DAL-LAS gone, absolutely no surprise there. However, I can't help wonder if AS could be interested in exploring other p2p opportunities from LAS, such as BOI, BUR, FAT, GEG, KOA, OGG, PVR, SAN, SJC, SJD, SMF, etc.

DAL-LAX/SFO continue unabated (for the time being), no surprise there. However, assuming DFW - an extremely important partner hub - is linked to the Californian hubs on AS metal in the future, will this operation be negatively affected?

DAL-LGA downgauged but increased in frequency. Looks like AS is very much focused on O&D pax here, which only makes sense given that West Coast pax have easier access than ever to EWR and JFK. Still, I find it very interesting that AS would rather slug it out at LGA than swap the highly coveted slots for, oh I don't know, a few more JFK slots or additional gate space at EWR...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
phluser
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:24 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Wow! AS continues to pleasantly surprise me. It's great to see the 2 DAL gates getting fully utilized now.

DAL-DCA remains, albeit downgauged. AS is fortunate to have several perimeter-exempt DCA slots enabling it to offer nonstop service between D.C.'s preferred airport and all 4 of its major West Coast hubs, so I'm not surprised to see them focused strictly on O&D. However, is going up directly against WN - an airline with massive FFer bases in both the Dallas Metroplex *and* the D.C. area - never mind indirect competitors like AA and UA the best use of the perimeter-restricted DCA slots? I can't help but wonder if these slots could be better used on less competitive routes or perhaps traded away altogether for other scarce assets, like increased access to EWR/JFK/LGA.

DAL-LAS gone, absolutely no surprise there. However, I can't help wonder if AS could be interested in exploring other p2p opportunities from LAS, such as BOI, BUR, FAT, GEG, KOA, OGG, PVR, SAN, SJC, SJD, SMF, etc.

DAL-LAX/SFO continue unabated (for the time being), no surprise there. However, assuming DFW - an extremely important partner hub - is linked to the Californian hubs on AS metal in the future, will this operation be negatively affected?

DAL-LGA downgauged but increased in frequency. Looks like AS is very much focused on O&D pax here, which only makes sense given that West Coast pax have easier access than ever to EWR and JFK. Still, I find it very interesting that AS would rather slug it out at LGA than swap the highly coveted slots for, oh I don't know, a few more JFK slots or additional gate space at EWR...


Even if AS wanted to trade the DCA/LGA slots, it would need a trading partner and an equitable deal worth it's while, and for regulatory reasons, DL and AA are out of question. Given that could take a long time to get a deal, it's best for AS to figure out how to make money on the slots by using them.

B6 likely won't give up prime JFK slots and WN and the ULCCs have no JFK slots to offer, WN is like an arch rival competitor in CA, so it might be challenging finding a trading partner anyways. Also the DAL-LGA/DCA kind of has the aspect of city airport to city airport.

The changes to AS will attract some pax that want to earn AA mileage on those flights and some pax who are business/frequent traveler might prefer not having a middle seat or middle seat neighbor, and the masses that fill a larger aircraft. Plus it reduces the amount of seats AS has to sell. Hopefully it works out well for AS and AS can even sell some connections or 1-stops to SAN, LAX etc.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Noise wrote:
Does this make it official - DAL is AS's first mid-continent focus city?


18 flights would be a pretty liberal definition of Focus City. It is a fairly large number of destinations, but all of them are to existing hubs/focus cities as well as slot controlled airports they can really only serve for now from this location.
 
airliner371
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:58 pm

phluser wrote:
Even if AS wanted to trade the DCA/LGA slots, it would need a trading partner and an equitable deal worth it's while, and for regulatory reasons, DL and AA are out of question. Given that could take a long time to get a deal, it's best for AS to figure out how to make money on the slots by using them.

B6 likely won't give up prime JFK slots and WN and the ULCCs have no JFK slots to offer, WN is like an arch rival competitor in CA, so it might be challenging finding a trading partner anyways. Also the DAL-LGA/DCA kind of has the aspect of city airport to city airport.

I thought about SY in NYC. SY has up to 3x daily JFK service, I wonder if they could give AS their 3x JFK service for maybe 2 of the 4 LGA slots, and then AS can sell 2 of the remaining LGA slots to some airline (I'm sure WN would bite at them).
 
Okie
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:07 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
18 flights would be a pretty liberal definition of Focus City. It is a fairly large number of destinations, but all of them are to existing hubs/focus cities as well as slot controlled airports they can really only serve for now from this location


Depends on the airline's definition I suppose. Sir Richard labeled the 2 gates a "Fortress Hub" in the press release when VX acquired the 2 gates.

Needless to say VX, AS, or B6 have not made serious inroads to the North Texas Market. VX was seriously limited by lack of aircraft inventory and no work clause to outsource a SJP and the need to use the gate times or lose them to DL.
AS should relieve the gate use issue by having equipment to add routes.
Who knows what is going to happen between now and 2025 when the rewrite of the rewrite of the Wright Amendment comes around again.

Okie
 
ScottB
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:24 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Starting this summer, Virgin America jets will be replaced with a 76-seat E175 jet in two Love Field markets – New York's LaGuardia Airport and Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport. On Aug. 27, three-times daily service to New York's LaGuardia Airport will operate using an E175 and increase to four daily flights on Oct. 28. Starting Feb. 18, twice-daily service to Reagan National Airport will also be replaced with an E175. The third daily Love Field-Washington Reagan National daily trip will continue to be operated by Virgin America until March 11, when SkyWest will take over the evening flight. As part of these schedule changes, Virgin America will permanently exit Love Field-Las Vegas on Aug. 26.

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2017-04- ... and-Oregon


Interestingly, the net swap of seven out of fourteen daily departures from DAL of A319s/A320s for eleven daily E175s results in a modest reduction in seats unless all the eliminated Airbus frequencies are on the A319.

airliner371 wrote:
4x daily service to LGA and DCA when all is said and done.


DAL-DCA is 3x daily and appears to stay that way.

usxguy wrote:
With the AS-AA relationship, AS can now build off AA traffic that would rather fly out of DAL if/when the flights/fares make sense. I know many AA flyers who will gladly hop on AS, but don't fly WN or VX right now because they don't get their status points/EQM/EQS, which now will be possible when flown by AS metal.


That doesn't seem particularly favorable to AA, though -- having high-value customers use AS out of DAL instead of AA's own flights from DFW.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:29 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Noise wrote:
Does this make it official - DAL is AS's first mid-continent focus city?


18 flights would be a pretty liberal definition of Focus City. It is a fairly large number of destinations, but all of them are to existing hubs/focus cities as well as slot controlled airports they can really only serve for now from this location.


The designation "Focus City" is dependent on each individual airline and only that airline. One airline's focus city would not be considered a focus city by other airlines. Cape Air operates a focus city in MVY with only 5 destinations and 2 of them are seasonal, and JetBlue calls BOS and JFK focus cities even though they have over a hundred daily flights out of both.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Overthecascades
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:43 pm

This is good news for AS who is here to stay in Dal. They can definitely leverage the large flyer base of AA in the Dallas area and market to those AA flyers who are ok with earning though less than on AA metal. If you combine DFW and Dal, it might push to a focus *city* status!
 
tphuang
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:47 pm

phluser wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Wow! AS continues to pleasantly surprise me. It's great to see the 2 DAL gates getting fully utilized now.

DAL-DCA remains, albeit downgauged. AS is fortunate to have several perimeter-exempt DCA slots enabling it to offer nonstop service between D.C.'s preferred airport and all 4 of its major West Coast hubs, so I'm not surprised to see them focused strictly on O&D. However, is going up directly against WN - an airline with massive FFer bases in both the Dallas Metroplex *and* the D.C. area - never mind indirect competitors like AA and UA the best use of the perimeter-restricted DCA slots? I can't help but wonder if these slots could be better used on less competitive routes or perhaps traded away altogether for other scarce assets, like increased access to EWR/JFK/LGA.

DAL-LAS gone, absolutely no surprise there. However, I can't help wonder if AS could be interested in exploring other p2p opportunities from LAS, such as BOI, BUR, FAT, GEG, KOA, OGG, PVR, SAN, SJC, SJD, SMF, etc.

DAL-LAX/SFO continue unabated (for the time being), no surprise there. However, assuming DFW - an extremely important partner hub - is linked to the Californian hubs on AS metal in the future, will this operation be negatively affected?

DAL-LGA downgauged but increased in frequency. Looks like AS is very much focused on O&D pax here, which only makes sense given that West Coast pax have easier access than ever to EWR and JFK. Still, I find it very interesting that AS would rather slug it out at LGA than swap the highly coveted slots for, oh I don't know, a few more JFK slots or additional gate space at EWR...


Even if AS wanted to trade the DCA/LGA slots, it would need a trading partner and an equitable deal worth it's while, and for regulatory reasons, DL and AA are out of question. Given that could take a long time to get a deal, it's best for AS to figure out how to make money on the slots by using them.

B6 likely won't give up prime JFK slots and WN and the ULCCs have no JFK slots to offer, WN is like an arch rival competitor in CA, so it might be challenging finding a trading partner anyways. Also the DAL-LGA/DCA kind of has the aspect of city airport to city airport.

The changes to AS will attract some pax that want to earn AA mileage on those flights and some pax who are business/frequent traveler might prefer not having a middle seat or middle seat neighbor, and the masses that fill a larger aircraft. Plus it reduces the amount of seats AS has to sell. Hopefully it works out well for AS and AS can even sell some connections or 1-stops to SAN, LAX etc.


It seems to me that B6 and AS trade of LGA and JFK makes the most sense. B6 has the prime time slots available that would be desired by AS. Would 4 prime time slots at JFK be worth 4 LGA slots for AS? I'm not sure what a fair offer would be for both sides.

And for DCA, could B6's beyond the perimeter slot to SJU be traded to AS and reassigned for another city like SAN?
 
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diverdave
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:59 pm

enilria wrote:
EDIT: So that was not in the OP. It is this just posted doc. I'm very surprised as you can see. Well, goo luck to them. Less capacity will help. Not sure it will make it profitable, though, and it's a long flight on an E175 compared to the other options.


Just speaking for myself, a long flight on an E175 is just fine with me.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:01 pm

Well I will eat crow on this one. I stated in a few threads that LGA/DCA would have to go from DAL if AS opened SEA/PDX etc...But the E's will have quicker turn times than Airbuses so I for one am glad to be proven wrong in this instance. Way to re-shuffle the deck chairs at DAL AS!
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
And for DCA, could B6's beyond the perimeter slot to SJU be traded to AS and reassigned for another city like SAN?

No and no. That slot belongs to Blue, and may only be used for SJU-DCA.

I'm afraid SAN is probably not going to see a nonstop to DCA until there is another Beyond Perimeter hearing mandated by Congress. And at that time, I'm sure AAG will fight hard to get such authorization! (The only other way SAN could get such service would be for UA, AA or DL to transfer one of their "moveable" DCA-slot awards -- rcvd in 2012 -- to SAN; and since both AA and DL have already moved -- or are preparing to move -- such awards to LAX, I give it a chance between 0 and .1 in a million to happen.)

bb
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
It seems to me that B6 and AS trade of LGA and JFK makes the most sense.


I have to ask; why are you so determined to see AS get rid of their LGA operation? Every thread, you've got some scenario where AS drops LGA.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
airliner371
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:39 pm

ScottB wrote:
DAL-DCA is 3x daily and appears to stay that way.

Listen, you can tell me it's just my computer, but currently, now I only see 2 AS DCA-DAL flights. I don't know if they keep messing with the system or what but all I've been doing is reporting as I see it online.
 
airliner371
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:43 pm

SANFan wrote:
I'm afraid SAN is probably not going to see a nonstop to DCA until there is another Beyond Perimeter hearing mandated by Congress. And at that time, I'm sure AAG will fight hard to get such authorization! (The only other way SAN could get such service would be for UA, AA or DL to transfer one of their "moveable" DCA-slot awards -- rcvd in 2012 -- to SAN; and since both AA and DL have already moved -- or are preparing to move -- such awards to LAX, I give it a chance between 0 and .1 in a million to happen.)

bb

And should more beyond perimeter slots become available, it would be difficult to justify giving AS/VX anymore, as combined, they have 5 daily flights already to the west coast, while other airlines like B6 and WN only have one each and United and Delta only have two each. And my guess is, if WN were to apply, they'd also apply for SAN and would likely receive it over AS, for just that reason.
 
tphuang
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:52 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It seems to me that B6 and AS trade of LGA and JFK makes the most sense.


I have to ask; why are you so determined to see AS get rid of their LGA operation? Every thread, you've got some scenario where AS drops LGA.


I'm quite flattered that you are paying attention to my silly opinions.

There were numerous suggestions that LGA to west coast with a layover in the middle of the country would be a good idea and I simply spoke that such itinerary does not make sense vs flying directly out of JFK. I believe I'm pretty consistent in repeating this.
 
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usxguy
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:24 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It seems to me that B6 and AS trade of LGA and JFK makes the most sense.


I have to ask; why are you so determined to see AS get rid of their LGA operation? Every thread, you've got some scenario where AS drops LGA.


Oh come on EA CO AS... you should know by now that Alaska is lightyears BELOW the service levels of every major airline out there. I mean, who is this ALASKAN airlines and why do they need to fly to New York? They are just a tiny little regional airline...https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/a ... ity-rating

:-D
xx
 
usflyguy
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:31 pm

I thought AA couldn't codeshare on flights in/out of DAL?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:43 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Well I will eat crow on this one. I stated in a few threads that LGA/DCA would have to go from DAL if AS opened SEA/PDX etc...But the E's will have quicker turn times than Airbuses so I for one am glad to be proven wrong in this instance. Way to re-shuffle the deck chairs at DAL AS!


At least you're man enough to admit it. I think there are a few others that should be dining on the same menu and we all know who they are.
 
phluser
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Re: AS adds DAL-SEA/PDX/SJC/SAN

Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:23 am

tphuang wrote:

It seems to me that B6 and AS trade of LGA and JFK makes the most sense. B6 has the prime time slots available that would be desired by AS. Would 4 prime time slots at JFK be worth 4 LGA slots for AS? I'm not sure what a fair offer would be for both sides.

And for DCA, could B6's beyond the perimeter slot to SJU be traded to AS and reassigned for another city like SAN?


a. Can't see B6 would give up prime time JFK slots in a trade deal. B6 is still very much interested in JFK transcons/longhaul and JFK is still a hub, even in a traditional sense with connections, atleast likely getting some north feed from BOS, BUF and ROC.
b. There seems to be a possibility, and it might be slim, that LGA perimeter rule goes away in the future at some point. Atleast back in 2015, it was being reported of being studied. AS might not want to be in that position where it sold off it's LGA slots, and later wants to be back at LGA because transcon is permitted at LGA.

I didn't think of SY and maybe it could work, but if b. is a possibility, then AS might just want to hold on to those LGA slots.

As for the DCA in perimeter slots, it's likely very remote to nil chance that Congress would enable DCA to break free from the perimeter restrictions.

It might be easier to sell them and get a lot of money for them. WN would buy them just to protect their position in WAS. More interesting would be B6: B6 would pay top dollar and would use them for something like BUF-DCA, complementing's B6's efforts as it added BUF-LAX a notable route, with B6 trying real hard to be New York's Hometown Airline. In comparison, DCA in perimeter for AS, or the use of DCA for DAL-DCA doesn't seem all that convincing as necessary for AS, and it could be replaceable.

AS could run DAL-BWI, instead, if it sold those DCA in perimeter slots, which granted will still have plenty of WN competition and even NK out of BWI, but BWI could easily absorb adding 3 E75 of extra seats on Dallas-BWI. This kind of keeps Washington, DC as a destination or AS or DAL, but just out of another airport but not a city airport.

Or, AS could look into markets with less Southwest competition, like EWR, MSP and CLE (if it launches SEA-CLE), where WN doesn't offer a nonstop out of DAL to those markets or is particularly very strong with point of sale. That's somewhat the alternative approach where AS would wind up complementing the overall nonstop destinations of DAL by offering some nonstop markets that WN doesn't offer. It might be too alternative way of an approach, but it seems that's how AS at SAN has been set up, covering some deficiencies by WN at SAN, instead there offering leisure destinatons like Hawaii and long hauls like BOS, that Southwest lacks.

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