LIPZ
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:39 am

As regards Alitalia, it seems the carrier is set to announce IAD launch for S19 after a successful negotiation with J-V partners (AF-KL, DL).
Maybe a sign that there is still a future for AZ in the SkyTeam J-V across the pond?
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:13 am

Blerg wrote:
I still don't see what's wrong with subsidizing airlines in Europe since half of EU budget goes to CAP (agriculture subventions).


mercure1 wrote:
Just bite the bullet and call it a fully national airline. No shame in having state run airline.


What's wrong with you guys? Have you gone into full communist mode?

Every business that get's subsidies should be eliminated. It's utter crap, because it distorts the market and destroys fair competition to companies that don't rely on subsidies.


How should the other airlines in Europe AND Italy compete with Alitalia if Alitalia doesn't have to cover all it's costs because it can rely on infinite sponsorshop by the tax-payer? Fair competition never works when one participant in the market has an unfair advantage.


Also how should the tax payers in Italy (beside Northern Italy, not really one of the rich EU countries) pay for that forever? You can't demand them to do this. Let the people vote on it, I'm sure they are fed up of putting their private money into AZ.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:44 am

CARST wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I still don't see what's wrong with subsidizing airlines in Europe since half of EU budget goes to CAP (agriculture subventions).


mercure1 wrote:
Just bite the bullet and call it a fully national airline. No shame in having state run airline.


What's wrong with you guys? Have you gone into full communist mode?

Every business that get's subsidies should be eliminated. It's utter crap, because it distorts the market and destroys fair competition to companies that don't rely on subsidies.


How should the other airlines in Europe AND Italy compete with Alitalia if Alitalia doesn't have to cover all it's costs because it can rely on infinite sponsorshop by the tax-payer? Fair competition never works when one participant in the market has an unfair advantage.


Also how should the tax payers in Italy (beside Northern Italy, not really one of the rich EU countries) pay for that forever? You can't demand them to do this. Let the people vote on it, I'm sure they are fed up of putting their private money into AZ.



Has nothing to do with being Communist or not, it has do with hypocrisy. Eliminate subventions for all then, not just for aviation. Also, how are European airlines supposed to compete against those who are subsidized by their own governments (Air China, Emirates, Qatar...)? It's never black or white and like I said, if Italians don't want to subsidize Alitalia then it's their own choice. For the time being I think they mostly don't mind... and anyway, didn't AZ record a profit in Q3 this year?
 
LewisNEO
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:08 pm

Delta, Lufthansa want a share of Alitalia

Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:23 am

https://www.ilmessaggero.it/economia/ne ... 54778.html

According to this article both Delta and Lufthansa are negotiating for a share of Alitalia after Ferrovie dello Stato has taken over the company. Also Easyjet is expected to negotiate for share.
At least Ferrovie dello Stato is spreading it's risk when Delta and/or Lufthansa are going to get a share of Alitalalia. Alitalia is now a member of SkyTeam, I wonder if this will give a new discussion about its membership.
You are the wind beneath my wings.

Fokker 27, Bombardier Dash 8, Embraer 175 & 195, 727-200, 737-200 & -300 & -400 & -800, 747-400, 767-300, 767-400, DC 10-30, A320-200, A330-200, A330-300, A380.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Delta, Lufthansa want a share of Alitalia

Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:49 am

The usual suspects
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:45 pm

LH continues to chase AZ.

Lufthansa seeks alliance with Alitalia
http://atwonline.com/operations-technol ... city-plans

Lufthansa is considering a commercial partnership with Alitalia, but has ruled out a financial investment.

Binding bids for a stake in Alitalia are due Oct. 31 and Lufthansa has in the past expressed an interest in investing. However, the German airline has made clear what measures would have to be taken in terms of restructuring the airline before it would commit to putting in its own money. Those proposals have been rejected by the Italian government, which has kept the carrier flying through bridge loans since the airline went into the Italian equivalent of bankruptcy.

“Investing is out of the question for us alongside a state-owned entity,” Lufthansa Group CEO Carsten Spohr said Oct. 30. “A commercial partnership is on the agenda for the next few months; we know the management team at Alitalia very well.”
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Blerg
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:28 am

So does it mean that they are basically looking for a code-share agreement with Alitalia?
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23922
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:13 pm

As rumored Ferrovie dello Stato (FS) has bid on AZ. They seek to utilize synergies between the companies to create " an integrated transport company"

Italy’s economic development minister Luigi Di Maio said they had received multiple bids for AZ which would be examined in coming weeks.

http://atwonline.com/airlines/italy-s-s ... d-alitalia
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:13 pm

If LH is confident to reach a commercial agreement with AZ not investing into it, it perhaps means they know the winning bid is not going to come from a competing airline, such as DL.
 
winginit
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:21 pm

xiaotung wrote:
If LH is confident to reach a commercial agreement with AZ not investing into it, it perhaps means they know the winning bid is not going to come from a competing airline, such as DL.


... you can be absolutely 100% certain that a bid hasn't been placed by DL.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4511
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:50 pm

Governement says they received 3 bids

https://phys.org/news/2018-10-alitalia-takeover.html
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23922
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:55 pm

Actually, the government says - 2 binding bids and 1 non-binding expression of interest.

Alitalia receives two binding offers, one expression of interest -airline
https://www.reuters.com/article/alitali ... SL8N1XB8JM

So looks like one of the formal binding bids is from FS, and while expression of interest is from Easyjet

EasyJet submits revised expression of interest for Alitalia
https://www.reuters.com/article/alitali ... SL8N1XB80T

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
axiom
Posts: 869
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:58 pm

And DL is the second bid. Fascinating. Could a non-EU company purchase Alitalia?
 
User avatar
GoneSovereign
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:00 am

Is there a link that says DL is the second one? I'm not seeing it in the ones provided.
San Francisco Bay Area
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:27 am

FDS is going to get it IMO.
FDS is a well-run government company with a lot of $$$ and good management.
DL could be offered a partnership.
U2 is too small in Italy and growing through AZ is going to be too big a burden on them.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:28 am

winginit wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
If LH is confident to reach a commercial agreement with AZ not investing into it, it perhaps means they know the winning bid is not going to come from a competing airline, such as DL.


... you can be absolutely 100% certain that a bid hasn't been placed by DL.


Lol this aged well.
 
winginit
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:29 am

jbs2886 wrote:
winginit wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
If LH is confident to reach a commercial agreement with AZ not investing into it, it perhaps means they know the winning bid is not going to come from a competing airline, such as DL.


... you can be absolutely 100% certain that a bid hasn't been placed by DL.


Lol this aged well.


If confirmed, foot meet mouth. I'd be both very wrong and stunned.

Is there a source? I'm not seeing anything that isn't implying Rail Company and EasyJet as the two bids.
Last edited by winginit on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
dabsen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:29 am

GoneSovereign wrote:
Is there a link that says DL is the second one? I'm not seeing it in the ones provided.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKCN1N5319
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:34 am

This would be a wow moment if it is true that Delta is looking to buy a stake in Alitalia.....the turmoil & financial state is so terrible.....would be interesting to see what strategies they use to turn this airline around,Virgin was told to pull out of lost making routes and focus on Atlantic flying,what's the vision with Alitalia?
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1396
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:38 am

I wonder what DL would do if they were to purchase AZ.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
simpv
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:39 am

winginit wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
winginit wrote:

... you can be absolutely 100% certain that a bid hasn't been placed by DL.


Lol this aged well.


If confirmed, foot meet mouth. I'd be both very wrong and stunned.

Is there a source? I'm not seeing anything.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKCN1N5319
from a source with knowledge of the matter.
i'm stunned too.
 
winginit
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:42 am

simpv wrote:
winginit wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Lol this aged well.


If confirmed, foot meet mouth. I'd be both very wrong and stunned.

Is there a source? I'm not seeing anything.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKCN1N5319
from a source with knowledge of the matter.
i'm stunned too.


Hmmm... this is one of those where I'll believe it when I see it confirmed by Delta.
 
axiom
Posts: 869
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:28 am

There are several Italian language sources on the DL bid.

https://www.repubblica.it/economia/2018 ... 210487924/
 
hz747300
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:37 am

As long as Delta keeps the logo & the name, it's cool. Alitalia is such an iconic Aviation brand, it would be a shame to see it go. I know, I know, who the hell under 30 remembers Sabena?

At least with Delta's buying power equipment costs should go down.
Keep on truckin'...
 
philabos
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:39 am

The other offer from the state controlled railway?
 
Prost
Posts: 2476
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:55 am

hz747300 wrote:
As long as Delta keeps the logo & the name, it's cool. Alitalia is such an iconic Aviation brand, it would be a shame to see it go. I know, I know, who the hell under 30 remembers Sabena?

At least with Delta's buying power equipment costs should go down.

Deltitalia doesn’t work for you?
 
TW870
Posts: 1035
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:11 am

hz747300 wrote:
As long as Delta keeps the logo & the name, it's cool. Alitalia is such an iconic Aviation brand, it would be a shame to see it go. I know, I know, who the hell under 30 remembers Sabena?

At least with Delta's buying power equipment costs should go down.


Southern Europe is doing very well for Skyteam, and you are right, Alitalia is an iconic brand. It seems like DL would rather spend money to have Alitalia stay in the game than have LH take over the Italy market. On the operational side, Alitalia already has an excellent business class. If DL could help get the lobby situation under control at FCO, this could really work. I think DL has an excellent premium product to Europe, but I think AZ's is even better. So I get why they see an opportunity here despite all the drama.
 
YIMBY
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:48 am

axiom wrote:
There are several Italian language sources on the DL bid.

https://www.repubblica.it/economia/2018 ... 210487924/


A bid for 49 % while Italian government has 51 %?

EU law still requires that more than 50 % of shares and effective control must be in the hands of EU citizens or governments to get an EU AOC.
(Delta might count partly European if is has European shareholders.)
I would not invest a cent in Alitalia unless i gain effective control of it.
Nevertheless, if the airline keeps being controlled by unions and politicians the court may agree that it would not matter who sits in the board.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9670
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:38 am

YIMBY wrote:
axiom wrote:
There are several Italian language sources on the DL bid.

https://www.repubblica.it/economia/2018 ... 210487924/


A bid for 49 % while Italian government has 51 %?

EU law still requires that more than 50 % of shares and effective control must be in the hands of EU citizens or governments to get an EU AOC.
(Delta might count partly European if is has European shareholders.)
I would not invest a cent in Alitalia unless i gain effective control of it.
Nevertheless, if the airline keeps being controlled by unions and politicians the court may agree that it would not matter who sits in the board.

Delta was accusing Etihad of making money losing investments that were so bad they had to be backstopped by the govt. That was this same investment, LOL.

If Delta gets them I’d expect long-haul to the USA to disappear unless somehow the costs become low.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:37 pm

Imagine the level of doublespeak DL will make if they pickup AZ in regarding the QR/IG relationship.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:40 pm

I think that DL would be an excellent partner for AZ. I can see what DL is trying to do.

DL is already covering TPAC and TATL markets very well. AZ can add significant strength to the part of the world that they're missing, ie Europe-Asia.
In particular, Italy-Asia has a strong leisure market as a fundamental basis. They can build on that to expand into higher yielding sectors by offering a very good premium product and a good network.
What AZ really needs is a huge long haul expansion, mainly to Asia.
Europe-Asia is the bread and butter for the ME3, LH, LX, AF, KL, TK and still also for BA.
EY promised this long haul expansion but the widebodies never came, much like QR is promising tons of B787's to IG that I think will never come.

DL and FDS have big $$$ and they have excellent managements.
I think that combined, they can form a very strong AZ that could easily become a leading airline in Europe-Asia.
With FDS, there is also a huge opportunity in intermodal air-rail transport. Italy is a collection of many scathered small cities and to a run a successful air hub, you need to feed efficiently. Realising this, EK has already started partnering with Trenitalia.
 
Nola
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 1:40 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:27 pm

enilria wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
axiom wrote:
There are several Italian language sources on the DL bid.

https://www.repubblica.it/economia/2018 ... 210487924/


A bid for 49 % while Italian government has 51 %?

EU law still requires that more than 50 % of shares and effective control must be in the hands of EU citizens or governments to get an EU AOC.
(Delta might count partly European if is has European shareholders.)
I would not invest a cent in Alitalia unless i gain effective control of it.
Nevertheless, if the airline keeps being controlled by unions and politicians the court may agree that it would not matter who sits in the board.

Delta was accusing Etihad of making money losing investments that were so bad they had to be backstopped by the govt. That was this same investment, LOL.

If Delta gets them I’d expect long-haul to the USA to disappear unless somehow the costs become low.


Likely the opposite. Long Haul is where AZ is making money. Short haul is where they're losing money.

DL would likely be willing to expand that, within the JV, particularly if Easy Jet became the short haul feeder carrier.

I've avoided AZ for the last couple of years because of the uncertainty as to whether they'd survive; it would be nice to have that third hub option for Europe back.
 
Nola
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 1:40 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:43 pm

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-submit ... -alitalia/

If the rail company owned the majority and DL and the Italian gov't owned a minority stake (or Easy Jet and the rail owned the majority and DL/gov't owned minority stakes), how would a restructuring work beyond maybe spinning the intra-Italy routes to a new "connection" carrier while keeping long-haul affiliated with the entity DL has a stake in? Otherwise, why would DL think it would make money on this deal?
 
winginit
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:29 pm

Without confirmed details, I think it's pretty easy to assume that the Delta bid (which still hasn't been confirmed by Delta) must be for a 49% stake like the ones they have with AM and VS. I still strongly doubt that's the case but have already been proven wrong once in this thread in fantastic fashion.

Could the Delta 'bid' not be simply for something more marginal like JFK slots? I could see such an offer being touted by this 'source' who confirmed it was Delta as more or less bait for a real investment.

If it truly is something to the tune of Delta 49% Italian Government 51% stake it would be, in my mind, the most foolish investment Delta has made.
 
hinckley
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:35 pm

Posters seem to talking about today's news as if something has changed in Italy.

I have huge respect for the management of DL. I presume that if they put in a binding offer, it came with conditions for a pre-investment restructure of AZ's business. If I'm wrong, DL has made a mistake and will fail. Nothing has changed in Italy.

And the alternative? A state-owned company that many here believe is also well run. OK, but a state owned entity running AZ? There's a recipe that's never been tried before. Nothing has changed in Italy.

There will be "AZ in a financial crisis" threads on a.net for many, many years to come. Nothing ever changes in Italy.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9670
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:20 pm

Nola wrote:
enilria wrote:
If Delta gets them I’d expect long-haul to the USA to disappear unless somehow the costs become low.


Likely the opposite. Long Haul is where AZ is making money. Short haul is where they're losing money.

DL would likely be willing to expand that, within the JV, particularly if Easy Jet became the short haul feeder carrier.

The investment is about DL making money. If you look back, over and over again when the major alliance partners have bought carriers deeper in Europe the modus operandi has been to transfer their long-haul to the alliance with few exceptions. The fact it's AZ's best routes make it more likely to go to DL or the DL JV, not less likely. Certainly for the U.S. routes.
 
PIEAvantiP180
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:04 am

DL and EasyJet bid to takeover AZ

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:46 pm

Per the article below DL, EasyJet, and Italian railway Ferrovie dello Stato have put in bids for AZ. Two bids are confirmed and a 3rd is showing interest but it did not identify which of the 3 companies is a firm bidder and which one is kicking the tires. I think DL with the help of AF/KL should go in together like they did with VS and get AZ on profitable grounds and keep AZ in Sky as part of the trans Atlantic JV.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/alitalia ... 23679.html

U.K.-based EasyJet said in a statement Wednesday that it submitted a revised expression of interest in Alitalia, while Delta also presented a proposal. Italian state railway company Ferrovie dello Stato said it also made an offer.

The bids raise the prospect of Alitalia gaining multiple owners, with EasyJet bringing its expertise to bear on short-haul operations, and Atlanta-based Delta helping to run lucrative long-haul flights out of Milan and Rome. Ferrovie would most likely act as an anchor investor.

State-appointed administrators for Alitalia confirmed that two binding bids had been received, together with one expression of interest, without saying who they were from. Economic Development Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio said that “finding an industrial partner is going to be key.”
 
PIEAvantiP180
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:04 am

DL, EasyJet bid for a stake in AZ

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:54 pm

I posted this news yesterday and for some reason the post got deleted. Mods any explanation plz?

DL, EasyJet and Italian railway company are interested in investing into AZ, according the the press release IT gov already has 2 confirmed bids and the 3rd company at the moment of the interested parties is being identified as having strong interest. The article does not mention of the 3 parties who confirmed bidder and interested party. I'm wondering if DL even as good as their management is at running an airline can do anything of the mess that is AZ. I'm sure DL is interested in keeping AZ in Skyteam and keeping them involved in the Atlantic JV to funnel traffic in and out IT from US.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/alitalia ... 23679.html
"(Bloomberg) -- Italy’s Alitalia SpA attracted bids from European discounter EasyJet Plc and U.S. giant Delta Air Lines Inc., as the government renews attempts to sell the bankrupt flag-carrier.

U.K.-based EasyJet said in a statement Wednesday that it submitted a revised expression of interest in Alitalia, while Delta also presented a proposal. Italian state railway company Ferrovie dello Stato said it also made an offer.

The bids raise the prospect of Alitalia gaining multiple owners, with EasyJet bringing its expertise to bear on short-haul operations, and Atlanta-based Delta helping to run lucrative long-haul flights out of Milan and Rome. Ferrovie would most likely act as an anchor investor.

State-appointed administrators for Alitalia confirmed that two binding bids had been received, together with one expression of interest, without saying who they were from. Economic Development Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio said that “finding an industrial partner is going to be key.”
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2854
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: DL, EasyJet bid for a stake in AZ

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:57 pm

I am sure the nutty politicians in Italy are going to find a reason not to sell once again.
 
jordanh
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:11 pm

enilria wrote:
Nola wrote:
enilria wrote:
If Delta gets them I’d expect long-haul to the USA to disappear unless somehow the costs become low.

Likely the opposite. Long Haul is where AZ is making money. Short haul is where they're losing money.
DL would likely be willing to expand that, within the JV, particularly if Easy Jet became the short haul feeder carrier.

The investment is about DL making money. If you look back, over and over again when the major alliance partners have bought carriers deeper in Europe the modus operandi has been to transfer their long-haul to the alliance with few exceptions. The fact it's AZ's best routes make it more likely to go to DL or the DL JV, not less likely. Certainly for the U.S. routes.


That's not what happened with VS; their long-haul operations to the USA actually have expanded, although a couple of their nonprofitable routes to other continents have disappeared. Overall, I would say they expended, rather than contracted, their long-haul flights.

It may be too early to say what is happening with AM, but I believe they may be expanding their long-haul routes (to Europe and Asia) as well.
 
winginit
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: DL, EasyJet bid for a stake in AZ

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:53 pm

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
I posted this news yesterday and for some reason the post got deleted. Mods any explanation plz?

DL, EasyJet and Italian railway company are interested in investing into AZ, according the the press release IT gov already has 2 confirmed bids and the 3rd company at the moment of the interested parties is being identified as having strong interest. The article does not mention of the 3 parties who confirmed bidder and interested party. I'm wondering if DL even as good as their management is at running an airline can do anything of the mess that is AZ. I'm sure DL is interested in keeping AZ in Skyteam and keeping them involved in the Atlantic JV to funnel traffic in and out IT from US.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/alitalia ... 23679.html
"(Bloomberg) -- Italy’s Alitalia SpA attracted bids from European discounter EasyJet Plc and U.S. giant Delta Air Lines Inc., as the government renews attempts to sell the bankrupt flag-carrier.

U.K.-based EasyJet said in a statement Wednesday that it submitted a revised expression of interest in Alitalia, while Delta also presented a proposal. Italian state railway company Ferrovie dello Stato said it also made an offer.

The bids raise the prospect of Alitalia gaining multiple owners, with EasyJet bringing its expertise to bear on short-haul operations, and Atlanta-based Delta helping to run lucrative long-haul flights out of Milan and Rome. Ferrovie would most likely act as an anchor investor.

State-appointed administrators for Alitalia confirmed that two binding bids had been received, together with one expression of interest, without saying who they were from. Economic Development Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio said that “finding an industrial partner is going to be key.”


These seem like vulture bids as opposed to genuine attempts to partner with the Italian government to try and turn the airline around. I imagine Delta’s bid is essentially for 12% of the company, which is the rough ratio of Alitalia’s long-haul transatlantic ASMs compared to the entirety of AZ’s system. Imagine that would include some frames and JFK slots as well.
 
User avatar
coronado
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 1999 9:42 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:39 pm

Delta Air Lines current president Glen Hauenstein probably has some good insights into Alitalia. Before joining Delta in 2005 he was at Alitalia. Maybe he wants a good reason for having a summer home in Italy and split his year between ATL and Italy.
I will highlight the following from his official biography on the Delta site, and below it I will include the link for his full biography because it is interesting.

Quote: Before joining Delta, Glen served as Vice General Director for Alitalia, serving in the dual role of Chief Commercial Officer and Chief Operating Officer. In his role as Chief Commercial Officer, Glen led a major restructuring of Alitalia's route network, which improved schedule connectivity by more than 50 percent. Under Glen's leadership, Alitalia's revenues grew nearly 20 percent while the aircraft fleet was reduced by more than 10 percent. Unquote

Full bio: https://news.delta.com/bio-glen-hauenstein-president

Also interesting to note that both Glen Hauenstein and Richard Anderson both started their professional careers at Continental in the same year, 1987.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1396
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:41 pm

DL would probably take the TATL routes. I can’t see them operating within Europe.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
f4f3a
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

Renewed effort to sell alitalia

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:32 am

Saw this article very interesting reading.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 82704.html
Would easyjet and delta do a joint bid ?
Would Alitalia shorthaul remain or be absorbed by easyJet ?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9670
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:56 pm

jordanh wrote:
enilria wrote:
Nola wrote:
Likely the opposite. Long Haul is where AZ is making money. Short haul is where they're losing money.
DL would likely be willing to expand that, within the JV, particularly if Easy Jet became the short haul feeder carrier.

The investment is about DL making money. If you look back, over and over again when the major alliance partners have bought carriers deeper in Europe the modus operandi has been to transfer their long-haul to the alliance with few exceptions. The fact it's AZ's best routes make it more likely to go to DL or the DL JV, not less likely. Certainly for the U.S. routes.


That's not what happened with VS; their long-haul operations to the USA actually have expanded, although a couple of their nonprofitable routes to other continents have disappeared. Overall, I would say they expended, rather than contracted, their long-haul flights.

It may be too early to say what is happening with AM, but I believe they may be expanding their long-haul routes (to Europe and Asia) as well.

That's different because of LHR slots. They can't own 50% and transfer out the company's most valuable "physical" assets. An LHR slot is worth $50m+. What they have done is refocus the company as basically Delta Connection instead of a hub for Europe.
 
FatCat
Posts: 971
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: Renewed effort to sell alitalia

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:24 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Would Alitalia shorthaul remain or be absorbed by easyJet ?


it is already absorbed by FR
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
hinckley
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:38 pm

I think that each time AZ goes thru one of its regular financial crises, commentators get excited and forget two basic facts which are immutable - AZ will stay majority owned by Italians, and the Alitalia name will remain painted on the side of its aircraft. Those two things will not change.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1626
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:25 pm

Bids mean nothing unless the details are made known. Hell, I could also "bid" for Alitalia: "Hi, here is $1 for you!! Did I win??"
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23922
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:37 pm

Reports that government has accepted purchase offer by Ferrovie dello Stato.

https://www.tpi.it/2018/11/20/alitalia- ... accettato/
https://www.unionesarda.it/articolo/eco ... 99389.html

Seems they desire to secure synergies of an air-rail model, with airline focusing more on longhaul flying and rail picking up more of the domestic operation, while offering increased joint marketing and connectivity.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:38 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Reports that government has accepted purchase offer by Ferrovie dello Stato.

English isn't my first language, but for some reason, word "anticlimactic" feels like the best description of this development.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos