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lightsaber
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:37 am

Scotron12 wrote:
Cannot believe this thread was started over 2yrs ago and seems no end is in sight.

I'm surprised the thread is going. No end to AZ? That is a given. During that time the rest of the airline world moved on with little to no concern.

During that time, the new IST opened. It wouldn't surprise me if IST gains a 3rd runway before AZ is resolved.

How much cash has AZ destroyed in 2 years?

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:56 am

The railway connection and Delta Vacations opportunities can be a game-changer if implemented correctly. Delta, Alitalia and Ferrovie can curate affordable convenient tours with inclusive pricing and convenience. The same can be done with business-vacation travelers or strictly business itineraries. All three need to plan this as part of their business plan. It's a very unique and competitive opportunity.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:05 pm

:lol:
lightsaber wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Cannot believe this thread was started over 2yrs ago and seems no end is in sight.

I'm surprised the thread is going. No end to AZ? That is a given. During that time the rest of the airline world moved on with little to no concern.

During that time, the new IST opened. It wouldn't surprise me if IST gains a 3rd runway before AZ is resolved.

How much cash has AZ destroyed in 2 years?

Lightsaber


Not just cash...they're one of the reasons EY is in their current state...not 100% fault of AZ, but over $1BN of EY cash down the tubes!

Is ok if you're the government wasting that sort of dosh...then you have to factor in the comedy that is Italian politics!

So yes...IST and LHR will have their 3rd runways before the AZ saga is over!
 
FatCat
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:45 am

I'm sure that thanks to stable governments, transparent and fair money transfers and good managment AZ will continue to be a major european airline!

Oh wait I wrote AZ I meant LH :-D
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
IWMBH
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:32 pm

I doubt if there ever will be a successful Italian airline. The government should accept any bid from LH and let LH implement AZ into Eurowings and hope Air Italy survives.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:56 pm

Blerg wrote:
> Fleet reduced from current 117 to 102 in 2020
> Lease 3 777 and 13 additional Airbus family craft

These are two most interesting parts. I wonder what 15 aircraft they plan of retiring, or that is 18 if they plan on adding 3 B777. I see they have 15 E75 in their fleet, maybe they plan on removing those?

I remember reading that they were extremely happy with their B773, I suppose that's the one they would be adding in stead of the -200 variant.

This is their current fleet:

A319: 22
A320: 38
A321: 11
A332: 14
B772: 11
B773: 1
E75: 15
E90: 5


Lots of long-haul opportunity with too many A320s. They need to look at the A220 to cut capacity and drive higher yields. I’m not sure AZ and Rome can support all those widebodies alongside the flying done by other carriers, though I realize daily flying to some places requires two planes.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:26 am

IWMBH wrote:
I doubt if there ever will be a successful Italian airline. The government should accept any bid from LH and let LH implement AZ into Eurowings and hope Air Italy survives.


I think the interest of LH has vanished now that EN is back in expansion mode.

viewtopic.php?t=1429791
 
cityshuttle
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:14 am

Guess if LH was offered to take over AZ and turn it into a profitable airline, they would find an internal solution for EN.

The original plan of LH was to have AZ focus on FCO and leave MXP to EW. But now IG has started many routes from MXP and it would be way more difficult as 2 years back ...
 
steman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:29 am

cityshuttle wrote:
Guess if LH was offered to take over AZ and turn it into a profitable airline, they would find an internal solution for EN.

The original plan of LH was to have AZ focus on FCO and leave MXP to EW. But now IG has started many routes from MXP and it would be way more difficult as 2 years back ...


IG is not a threat. They are shrinking their network already and their survivability is questionable. What prevented LH to make a successful bid for AZ is the same reason that prevent Alitalia from becoming successful. A mixture of political influences, hostile unions, bad infrastructures, lack of an integrated national system and transportation policy, corruption and lack of managerial skills. Alitalia, although private, will keep on existing as it is because it is still a huge reservoir of votes and favours for politicians and unions alike.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:44 am

LH is not gonna be AZ's shining night. You'd have a better chance of the Italian government falling, and
freeing up AZ to be renationalised. The Italians obviously do not want to lose their flag carrier but its had
a very long long long history of issues. LH owns 2 very good airlines on their doorstep. Plus LH itself. They already
have a huge chunk of Italian long haul business traffic. And for central and Southern Italy Turkish won't want
them in star alliance. Etihad was their best chance. But politics and Alitalia will never be separated. It's not impossible
though. Iberia a few years back had staff burning the Union Jack inside the MAD terminal. Now its doing reasonably well.
 
415255
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:20 pm

Italians obviously do not want to lose their flag carrier

Hello everybody! I am Italian and frankly we are annoyed of wasting public money in such an airline. Ryanair is far bigger in Italy than Alitalia is so I don’t think Alitalia should be considered our flag carrier. Moreover, I live near Milano and the number of destinations Alitalia offers from here is way smaller than the one of easyJet and Ryanair. In less than two years of operations, Air Italy already has more long-haul flights and destinations from Milano.
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:27 pm

Lufthansa wrote:
LH is not gonna be AZ's shining night. You'd have a better chance of the Italian government falling, and
freeing up AZ to be renationalised. The Italians obviously do not want to lose their flag carrier but its had
a very long long long history of issues. LH owns 2 very good airlines on their doorstep. Plus LH itself. They already
have a huge chunk of Italian long haul business traffic. And for central and Southern Italy Turkish won't want
them in star alliance. Etihad was their best chance. But politics and Alitalia will never be separated. It's not impossible
though. Iberia a few years back had staff burning the Union Jack inside the MAD terminal. Now its doing reasonably well.


LH owns 2 very good airlines...LX ok ! But OS ?? Or EW real industrial disaster ?? :-)
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:16 pm

Brando747 wrote:
Italians obviously do not want to lose their flag carrier

Hello everybody! I am Italian and frankly we are annoyed of wasting public money in such an airline. Ryanair is far bigger in Italy than Alitalia is so I don’t think Alitalia should be considered our flag carrier. Moreover, I live near Milano and the number of destinations Alitalia offers from here is way smaller than the one of easyJet and Ryanair. In less than two years of operations, Air Italy already has more long-haul flights and destinations from Milano.


There's more to Italy than just Milan or the north-west provinces. If the Italian public didn't care about Alitalia then it would have been closed many years ago. It's obviously a sensitive topic and political suicide for any government that goes through with it.
 
HighFlyerIT
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:43 am

steman wrote:
cityshuttle wrote:
Guess if LH was offered to take over AZ and turn it into a profitable airline, they would find an internal solution for EN.

The original plan of LH was to have AZ focus on FCO and leave MXP to EW. But now IG has started many routes from MXP and it would be way more difficult as 2 years back ...


IG is not a threat. They are shrinking their network already and their survivability is questionable. What prevented LH to make a successful bid for AZ is the same reason that prevent Alitalia from becoming successful. A mixture of political influences, hostile unions, bad infrastructures, lack of an integrated national system and transportation policy, corruption and lack of managerial skills. Alitalia, although private, will keep on existing as it is because it is still a huge reservoir of votes and favours for politicians and unions alike.
Please tell us how IG network is shrinking.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk
 
steman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:09 am

HighFlyerIT wrote:
steman wrote:
cityshuttle wrote:
Guess if LH was offered to take over AZ and turn it into a profitable airline, they would find an internal solution for EN.

The original plan of LH was to have AZ focus on FCO and leave MXP to EW. But now IG has started many routes from MXP and it would be way more difficult as 2 years back ...


IG is not a threat. They are shrinking their network already and their survivability is questionable. What prevented LH to make a successful bid for AZ is the same reason that prevent Alitalia from becoming successful. A mixture of political influences, hostile unions, bad infrastructures, lack of an integrated national system and transportation policy, corruption and lack of managerial skills. Alitalia, although private, will keep on existing as it is because it is still a huge reservoir of votes and favours for politicians and unions alike.
Please tell us how IG network is shrinking.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk


They have been cutting a lot of long haul destination or turning them into seasonal: dehli, Mumbai, Moscow. Bangkok, Los Angeles, San Francisco and toronto to name a few. There's a thread about it and you can read it on Italian aviation forums as well. The planned expansion and subsequent consolidation of their long haul network that made some call air italy the new flag carrier simply did not happen
 
HighFlyerIT
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:25 am

steman wrote:
HighFlyerIT wrote:
steman wrote:

IG is not a threat. They are shrinking their network already and their survivability is questionable. What prevented LH to make a successful bid for AZ is the same reason that prevent Alitalia from becoming successful. A mixture of political influences, hostile unions, bad infrastructures, lack of an integrated national system and transportation policy, corruption and lack of managerial skills. Alitalia, although private, will keep on existing as it is because it is still a huge reservoir of votes and favours for politicians and unions alike.
Please tell us how IG network is shrinking.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk


They have been cutting a lot of long haul destination or turning them into seasonal: dehli, Mumbai, Moscow. Bangkok, Los Angeles, San Francisco and toronto to name a few. There's a thread about it and you can read it on Italian aviation forums as well. The planned expansion and subsequent consolidation of their long haul network that made some call air italy the new flag carrier simply did not happen


Closing a route and opening a different one is not a "shrink". Yes, DEL, BOM, and BKK were closed and replaced by LAX, SFO, and YYZ, which were seasonal from the beginning. Always the same long haul fleet size (5 aircrafts). In the upcoming winter season there will actually be a reduction due to expiring leases, but a growth to 7 aircrafts is expected for the next summer, with 2 new routes to NA.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk
 
steman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:00 am

HighFlyerIT wrote:
steman wrote:
HighFlyerIT wrote:
Please tell us how IG network is shrinking.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk


They have been cutting a lot of long haul destination or turning them into seasonal: dehli, Mumbai, Moscow. Bangkok, Los Angeles, San Francisco and toronto to name a few. There's a thread about it and you can read it on Italian aviation forums as well. The planned expansion and subsequent consolidation of their long haul network that made some call air italy the new flag carrier simply did not happen



Closing a route and opening a different one is not a "shrink". Yes, DEL, BOM, and BKK were closed and replaced by LAX, SFO, and YYZ, which were seasonal from the beginning. Always the same long haul fleet size (5 aircrafts). In the upcoming winter season there will actually be a reduction due to expiring leases, but a growth to 7 aircrafts is expected for the next summer, with 2 new routes to NA.

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk


Which just confirms my assumption that IG is not a threat to anyone. Not to AZ and definitely not to LH
 
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FLYERLHR
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:42 am

The issue has been ongoing ever since I was a kid. I can't see Alitalia surviving, they need someone to invest in them. They have a fairly old fleet in their short-haul aircraft (compare it to Air Italy - B38M) The introduction of the 773's are good, but Alitalia seriously need someone like LH to help them out
 
bennett123
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:53 pm

What is in it for LH?.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:22 pm

It's clear that Italian politicians don't want to see Alitalia liquidated (for whatever reasons). Alitalia got its last chance, its last last chance, its last last last last last... chance. In the absence of willingness to restructure and then provide ongoing protections for investor and creditor rights it's difficult to find new investors. This is a problem with so many constraints (maintain employment levels, maintain wages, maintain routes...) it's impossible to find a solution.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:18 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What is in it for LH?.


You mean besides a massive headache on top of the one they have from EW and OS?
 
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:22 pm

Deadline to submit proposed business plan by Ferrovie dello Stato, Delta and infrastructure group Atlantia pushed to Oct 15th.

Italy postpones deadline for Alitalia rescue plan to October 15
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKBN1W126N
mercure f-wtcc
 
Prost
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:25 pm

I guess I don’t know the meaning of the word ‘deadline.’ I thought I did, but I was wrong.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:26 pm

It translates quite differently from the Italian.
 
FSDan
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Not surprisingly, the article states DL is at odds with the two Italian companies on some key aspects of the plan...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:35 pm

Per Italian reporter tweet - Ed Bastian states DL looking at 10% stake in the new company.

https://twitter.com/leonard_berberi/sta ... 4137836546
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:08 pm

They've been talking about a 10% stake for months now, right?
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Per Italian reporter tweet - Ed Bastian states DL looking at 10% stake in the new company.

https://twitter.com/leonard_berberi/sta ... 4137836546


I think that this confirms what I have suggested previously in this thread, ie that there will be a new company.


IMO DL & F&S are going to start with a fresh company, purchasing only the assets, brand and taking over a significant portion of the fleet and staff, but none of the debt.
The government will flush the debt on the insolvent "bad" AZ.

It's not much different from previous AZ bankruptcies.

I think that this is the only hope for a fresh start for AZ.
I still don't understand why DL is only forking out 10%, but then again, how much capital are they going to need for a fresh start?
Considering the large initial size, I understand that a lot of capital will be burned in start-up losses, but still, how much capaital are they going to start with and how much will be spent to sooth the creditors?

If I were DL I would start with a 49% stake but same capital and then bombard FCO from all the DL hubs, building a mini-ATL in the middle of the Mediterranean.
If you think about it, FCO has a lot of characteristics in common with ATL.
In addition, DL can use AZ and develop reverse hubs for VCE, MXP, NAP, FLR, heck why not even some German cities and ZRH, to all their major TATL spokes in Europe while at the same time satisfying local demand.

We'll see.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:16 pm

Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte called on Delta to play a bigger role in the project. “a 10% stake seems to me a bit low to have a strong business involvement,” Conte said.

Italy's Conte calls on Delta to commit more to Alitalia
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKBN1W60FX
mercure f-wtcc
 
DDR
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:27 pm

What is SO different this time around that will result in AZ being a profitable self sustaining airline? Serious question. maybe DL only wants 10% because they aren't 100% confident in this "new" company. Still not sure why DL is so keen on AZ since they have a good thing going in AMS, CDG, and with VS.
 
flyingcat
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:27 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte called on Delta to play a bigger role in the project. “a 10% stake seems to me a bit low to have a strong business involvement,” Conte said.


Translation - We need you to give more money for an even bigger fire.

I do wonder if Delta is doing this out of a sense of obligation to keep its partner up or if there is some unspoken quid pro quo? LHR slots or some other incentive, for the sake of Skyteam.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:39 pm

I think Delta's proposed 10% is kind of low for a main partner. Increase it to at least 24% or get Air France-KLM to commit 10%. I am for Delta going solo on this and working with the rail company to achieve rail connectivity that go beyond mere airport to rail, but one-shop tineraries that are rail to rail within a customer's stay between arrival and departure flights.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:46 pm

flyingcat wrote:
mercure1 wrote:

I do wonder if Delta is doing this out of a sense of obligation to keep its partner up or if there is some unspoken quid pro? LHR slots or some other incentive, for the sake of Skyteam.



Very well may be. There is something keeping Delta at 10% for the time being. I guess they see it as a lock-in now that there is no imminent threat of a non-alliance airline making a bid. It now seems the gov't wants more from Delta, which is a good thing having the gov't publicly acknowledge that they have faith in Delta. Now Delta needs to say they want more control on the direction of Alitalia.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:11 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
If I were DL I would start with a 49% stake but same capital and then bombard FCO from all the DL hubs, building a mini-ATL in the middle of the Mediterranean.
If you think about it, FCO has a lot of characteristics in common with ATL.
In addition, DL can use AZ and develop reverse hubs for VCE, MXP, NAP, FLR, heck why not even some German cities and ZRH, to all their major TATL spokes in Europe while at the same time satisfying local demand.

We'll see.


A 49% stake puts DL on the hook for 49% of the losses. No thanks!

FCO has just about nothing in common with ATL, the largest airline hub (passengers carried) in the world. Nor can it ever. FCO is never going to challenge LHR/FRA/AMS/CDG. FCO is too far south - requiring overflying of much of the continent from the U.S. - to be a good connecting point for much U.S. - Europe traffic. Do - please - spend some time with a globe and Great Circle Mapper.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?

For everyone who is unhappy with a proposed 10% stake by Delta, I challenge you to find a better carrier willing to make a bigger investment with the same restructuring constraints. If the Administrator could have, it would have by now.
 
Jetty
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:30 pm

Blerg wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What is in it for LH?.


You mean besides a massive headache on top of the one they have from EW and OS?

You forgot about SN.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:31 pm

Jetty wrote:
Blerg wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What is in it for LH?.


You mean besides a massive headache on top of the one they have from EW and OS?

You forgot about SN.


True, forgot about that black hole. Thanks.
 
bennett123
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:22 pm

How much input does 10% buy?.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
If I were DL I would start with a 49% stake but same capital and then bombard FCO from all the DL hubs, building a mini-ATL in the middle of the Mediterranean.
If you think about it, FCO has a lot of characteristics in common with ATL.
In addition, DL can use AZ and develop reverse hubs for VCE, MXP, NAP, FLR, heck why not even some German cities and ZRH, to all their major TATL spokes in Europe while at the same time satisfying local demand.

We'll see.


A 49% stake puts DL on the hook for 49% of the losses. No thanks!

FCO has just about nothing in common with ATL, the largest airline hub (passengers carried) in the world. Nor can it ever. FCO is never going to challenge LHR/FRA/AMS/CDG. FCO is too far south - requiring overflying of much of the continent from the U.S. - to be a good connecting point for much U.S. - Europe traffic. Do - please - spend some time with a globe and Great Circle Mapper.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?

For everyone who is unhappy with a proposed 10% stake by Delta, I challenge you to find a better carrier willing to make a bigger investment with the same restructuring constraints. If the Administrator could have, it would have by now.


Wait a minute.
ATL is also "too far South" and yet it works.
FCO has room for growth, it is a year-round leisure destinations, it is in the middle of the Mediterranean, it is located in "Europe's Florida".
Delta already has VS/BE covering Northern Europe and TATL.
AZ opens up a new market. You've got massive potential within an hour of flying from FCO.
In addition, FCO is not u suitable for DL to participate in the lucrative Europe-Asia market.

It doesn't make sense for DL to come in with such a small position. IMO DL should be given carte blanche and take a 49% stake, on condition that they maintain fleet size, staff and connectivity to Italy. Everything else up to them.
DL management may be afraid that they could lose face if this doesn't work out.
But for a meaningless 10% stake, there is little point for DL to get a seat on the board.

I don't say that DL should gamble big, perhaps they can negotiate to start with a lower capital. But DL needs to run the show and I think that that is also what Conte wants.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:50 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

I don't say that DL should gamble big, perhaps they can negotiate to start with a lower capital. But DL needs to run the show and I think that that is also what Conte wants.



Delta DOES need to run this show. The fact that they are at odds with the other two investors indicates to me they are on the right track.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
How much input does 10% buy?.




90% nothing.
 
adtall
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:37 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
It doesn't make sense for DL to come in with such a small position. IMO DL should be given carte blanche and take a 49% stake, on condition that they maintain fleet size, staff and connectivity to Italy. Everything else up to them.


Hold up, why would DL agree to those conditions given that those three issues have had a well-documented negative effect on AZ's finances? I wouldn't, not even with 10%. AZ needs a much more thorough root-and-branch restructuring.
 
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MrBren
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:45 am

Alitalia will eventually fail, like WOW, XL Airways, Aigle Azur, Monarch, Primera, BME and so many others.
 
konrad
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:31 am

MrBren wrote:
Alitalia will eventually fail, like WOW, XL Airways, Aigle Azur, Monarch, Primera, BME and so many others.


Perhaps it will. But none of these had status comparable to Alitalia and the life support it is getting.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:39 am

After the losses sustained by EY, I would think long and hard before investing in AZ.

This scenario has been going on and on since I joined this site almost 15yrs ago and I do not see any meaningful change in AZ.

What the issue is I have no clue and Im quite surprised they're still here. National pride I suspect...which is all well and good, but government support is not allowed under EU rules, except in the case of AZ it seems.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:54 am

MrBren wrote:
Alitalia will eventually fail, like WOW, XL Airways, Aigle Azur, Monarch, Primera, BME and so many others.


Will it? Look at when this thread was started and how many airlines Alitalia has actually outlived.

Let's face it, no government will allow AZ to go bankrupt.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:06 am

Blerg wrote:
MrBren wrote:
Alitalia will eventually fail, like WOW, XL Airways, Aigle Azur, Monarch, Primera, BME and so many others.


Will it? Look at when this thread was started and how many airlines Alitalia has actually outlived.

Let's face it, no government will allow AZ to go bankrupt.


true
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:37 am

If you look at the huge transformation that Trenitalia underwent under the current management, there is hope.
Trenitalia used to be a collection of dirty trains without airconditioning, unreliable services, frequent accidents.
Now they boast a new fleet that puts other European countries to shame while running profits. The trains run on time too.

https://www.trenitalia.com/en/frecce/fr ... _1000.html

AZ needs an image transformation.
From old, tired and inconsistent in service, to young, fresh, premium, excellence in service, much to the image of the premium brands that makes Italy proud.
Europe could use a European equivalent of a Singapore airlines.
 
FatCat
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:06 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
If you look at the huge transformation that Trenitalia underwent under the current management, there is hope.
Trenitalia used to be a collection of dirty trains without airconditioning, unreliable services, frequent accidents.
Now they boast a new fleet that puts other European countries to shame while running profits. The trains run on time too.

https://www.trenitalia.com/en/frecce/fr ... _1000.html

AZ needs an image transformation.
From old, tired and inconsistent in service, to young, fresh, premium, excellence in service, much to the image of the premium brands that makes Italy proud.
Europe could use a European equivalent of a Singapore airlines.

I'm sorry, when was the last time you took a train in Italy?
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:32 pm

FatCat wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
If you look at the huge transformation that Trenitalia underwent under the current management, there is hope.
Trenitalia used to be a collection of dirty trains without airconditioning, unreliable services, frequent accidents.
Now they boast a new fleet that puts other European countries to shame while running profits. The trains run on time too.

https://www.trenitalia.com/en/frecce/fr ... _1000.html

AZ needs an image transformation.
From old, tired and inconsistent in service, to young, fresh, premium, excellence in service, much to the image of the premium brands that makes Italy proud.
Europe could use a European equivalent of a Singapore airlines.

I'm sorry, when was the last time you took a train in Italy?


When he only travels on Freccia high-speed train in premium srat ;)
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2876
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:19 pm

And I guess it's never on the Milan-Turin sector in rush hour. There's a reason Trenitalia won't rebate commuter fare tickets when their freccias run constantly late...

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