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dcajet
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:51 pm

EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Qantas744er
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:24 pm

dcajet wrote:
EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.


Arrived in AUH on January 15th for a C-Check at Etihad Engineering, will return to service upon completion.
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
dstblj52
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:25 pm

dcajet wrote:
EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.

Not sure but it looks like it Abu Dhabi with an 8000 flight number a week ago and has sat there since, which to me suggests that the Lessor found a new customer for it.
 
steman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:41 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.

Not sure but it looks like it Abu Dhabi with an 8000 flight number a week ago and has sat there since, which to me suggests that the Lessor found a new customer for it.


They recently (in the past couple of days) announced that they are returning 2 A330-200 and the sole 77W to Ethiad or to a lessor (I believe they were leased from Ethiad) and they are cutting SCL and ICN from FCO.
Moreover they announced cuts in their workforce, also connected with this fleet reduction. More frames, A320s and A321s, are also planned to leave the fleet in the next months.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:41 pm

steman wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.

Not sure but it looks like it Abu Dhabi with an 8000 flight number a week ago and has sat there since, which to me suggests that the Lessor found a new customer for it.


They recently (in the past couple of days) announced that they are returning 2 A330-200 and the sole 77W to Ethiad or to a lessor (I believe they were leased from Ethiad) and they are cutting SCL and ICN from FCO.
Moreover they announced cuts in their workforce, also connected with this fleet reduction. More frames, A320s and A321s, are also planned to leave the fleet in the next months.

A page or two back I proposed the plan is to comair the airline and it looks more and more likely that is the game plan, there just going to give back or sell every aircraft they can at every opportunity they can until the fleet is gone or its small enough to take a harder line stand on and then sell the brand to someone.
 
dcajet
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:59 pm

steman wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.

Not sure but it looks like it Abu Dhabi with an 8000 flight number a week ago and has sat there since, which to me suggests that the Lessor found a new customer for it.


They recently (in the past couple of days) announced that they are returning 2 A330-200 and the sole 77W to Ethiad or to a lessor (I believe they were leased from Ethiad) and they are cutting SCL and ICN from FCO.
Moreover they announced cuts in their workforce, also connected with this fleet reduction. More frames, A320s and A321s, are also planned to leave the fleet in the next months.


EI-WLA returned to service this week, with the usual EZE & GRU rotations. But not for long as it is being returned to the lessor at some point of 2020. The aircraft did not come from Etihad, it was with Air Austral since new in 2009.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:06 am

How come they are reducing the workforce? I thought unions were against that? I suppose pilots and cabin crew are let go?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:36 am

Blerg wrote:
How come they are reducing the workforce? I thought unions were against that? I suppose pilots and cabin crew are let go?

That's how "comair scenario" works. Unions can be theoretically against cuts. But if not enough work is available, and the company is supported with taxpayers money? If the unions make a fuss, demanding continued employment of surplus personnel... this makes for a very ugly press.
Especially if you twist it properly, and pepper it with (inevitable) juicy details... Suddenly the public becomes interested, and not in a good (for unions) way.
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spannacomo
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:36 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
steman wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
Not sure but it looks like it Abu Dhabi with an 8000 flight number a week ago and has sat there since, which to me suggests that the Lessor found a new customer for it.


They recently (in the past couple of days) announced that they are returning 2 A330-200 and the sole 77W to Ethiad or to a lessor (I believe they were leased from Ethiad) and they are cutting SCL and ICN from FCO.
Moreover they announced cuts in their workforce, also connected with this fleet reduction. More frames, A320s and A321s, are also planned to leave the fleet in the next months.

A page or two back I proposed the plan is to comair the airline and it looks more and more likely that is the game plan, there just going to give back or sell every aircraft they can at every opportunity they can until the fleet is gone or its small enough to take a harder line stand on and then sell the brand to someone.

I think this is the most probable scenario, with the only possible surprise coming from trade unions who are stupid enough to protest against that and cause a shutdown, more or less air Italy style
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:12 pm

Is there any kind of strike next tuesday? I am seeing several schedule changes and cancellations on AZ domestic flights (at least TRN and FLR)
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:35 pm

The demise of Air Italy perhaps will boost the prospect of Alitalia (?). It certainly makes it a little more palatable to new investment not having direct competition. Actually, it's shocking to me Air Italy is no more when the talk all over was supporting the notion that the government should stop the life-line to Alitalia. Always thought the recent Air Italy news was an interesting development. Could it scare Alitalia employees into accepting concessions when there is a workforce ready, willing and able to work?
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:43 pm

AtomicGarden wrote:
Is there any kind of strike next tuesday? I am seeing several schedule changes and cancellations on AZ domestic flights (at least TRN and FLR)


Found it (had to change languages on Google search)

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articl ... s-alitalia
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
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eisenbach
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:17 pm

According to the news, the strike on Tuesday is confirmed and Alitalia cancelled already 350 flights!
DC-6, DC9, Do228, Saab340, Twin-Otter, C212, Fokker50, AN24, MD90, MD83, EMB120, A380, A300, A343, A346, B721, B742, B744, B748...
 
dcajet
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:56 pm

Alitalia's new commissioner Giuseppe Leogrande has presented plans to unions to cut two unprofitable long-haul routes (SCL & ICN) and remove three aircraft from the fleet (2 A332 and the lone 77W) as part of ongoing attempts to find a way forward for the Italian flag carrier, almost three years after its bankruptcy filing.

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... fleet-cuts

(behind pay wall)
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:20 am

KE already flies from ICN so they can get feed from them, it's not a major loss.

Could it be that the 77W lease is expensive for them? Have the unions responded to his proposal?
 
716131
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:19 am

dcajet wrote:
EI-WLA, AZ's only 77W has not flown for over a week now. Does anyone know if it is undergoing MX or being returned to the lessor? IIRC, the airline announced recently that its only 77W would be leaving the fleet this year.

This aircraft will be retired and leaving this year.
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dcajet
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:42 pm

Blerg wrote:
Could it be that the 77W lease is expensive for them? Have the unions responded to his proposal?


I don't think they will have much of a choice. With the coronavirus outbreak in Italy, air travel will take a turn for the worse. And things over at AZ were already bad as they were.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:09 pm

EU has opened an investigation into the proposed government €400m loan to AZ. This on top of another by the Competition Commission on the €900m bridge loan granted to AZ in 2017.

This 2nd investigation is being done following a complaint.

AFAIK, all loans by ths Italian government to AZ have been complained about.


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-al ... KKCN20M2Q9
 
charles022
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:39 pm

Does have anyone have an OSD for EI-WLA please?
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:49 pm

Any updates regarding the Italian investigation into Etihad's involvement with Alitalia?
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:25 pm

Two weeks until the next expression of interest date (18 March) which is surprisingly close:
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/c ... 15.article

Memories of a more harmonious (but still unprofitable) time- the Genoa/Turin-Malpensa bus!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1bkiYeGAPI
 
hinckley
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:59 pm

A not too cynical prediction . . . Italy will determine that AZ cannot be sold right now because of the coronavirus and will use the diminished traffic and summer bookings as an excuse for an emergency aid package.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:05 pm

Either that or corona will be the needed excuse to close AZ down and then restart a new company with half the staff.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:33 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Either that or corona will be the needed excuse to close AZ down and then restart a new company with half the staff.


That's what they should do because IMHO that's only a matter of time anyway given what's happening in Italy. Face reality, at LONG LAST, and put an end to AZ (as should have been done years ago), then resurrect a new form of it a la SR/LX. But hold off to do that of course until this COVID-19 disaster passes!
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
FatCat
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:22 pm

It's not that easy.
Our Social Welfare will cover the "leftover employees".
So they will be a cost on Government's shoulders.
Not that they aren't since a long time anyway...
But it's not an easy thing firing 5000 people from one day to another... thankfully
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DL747400
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:01 pm

Coronavirus has dramatically reduced the value of all airlines worldwide. Perhaps it is time for the Italian government to revise downward their expectations regarding the amount of cash that any potential suitor or partner would be required to invest in AZ?

Italy needs to wake up and admit the reality that keeping AZ on endless life support has already cost them more than the costs associated with shutting AZ down. Adding 5000 employees to Italy's social welfare program will in the end certainly cost less. And to those who claim that Italy cannot lose their flag carrier because their economy is so heavily dependent on tourism, that is simply ego talking. Other airlines would step in and fill any void left by shutting down AZ. When the current outbreak comes to an end, tourists from around the world will once more come to Italy long to see the sights and spend their cash.
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usdcaguy
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:18 am

Looks like AZ will be nationalized. Unsurprising move and an opportunistic use of the pandemic to save jobs. Ultimately, Alitalia belongs in that group of carriers that will always exist for purely philosophical reasons, even if the neoliberal economic rationale behind supporting the carrier is beyond any sense of logic. AZ is something akin to OA, a carrier so poorly run that a better competitor simply cropped up and beat them before buying them. It’s sad to see such an iconic brand struggle so deeply, but it has had many, many chances in life and is now a ghost of the past.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2120PH
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:24 am

usdcaguy wrote:
Looks like AZ will be nationalized. Unsurprising move and an opportunistic use of the pandemic to save jobs. Ultimately, Alitalia belongs in that group of carriers that will always exist for purely philosophical reasons, even if the neoliberal economic rationale behind supporting the carrier is beyond any sense of logic. AZ is something akin to OA, a carrier so poorly run that a better competitor simply cropped up and beat them before buying them. It’s sad to see such an iconic brand struggle so deeply, but it has had many, many chances in life and is now a ghost of the past.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2120PH


I think the Greek market was saved by the fact Aegean grew and expanded thanks to its professional management. So in a way there was a solid and viable alternative to Olympic. In Italy there is no such case as there isn't an airline that can simply and fully replace Alitalia.
 
hinckley
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:04 am

usdcaguy wrote:
Looks like AZ will be nationalized.

Shocking. No one could have seen that coming. Lol.

All joking aside, how does nationalization happen in today's EU? When was the last time such a thing was allowed to happen?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:17 am

usdcaguy wrote:
even if the neoliberal economic rationale


That's not a proper use of the term neoliberal:

The term is used as a catchall for anything that smacks of deregulation, liberalisation, privatisation or fiscal austerity.

From The Guardian.

That's just plain job-saving, resistant to change, spend government money socialism and one doesn't have to look very far to find it advocated every day in this forum.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:36 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
even if the neoliberal economic rationale


That's not a proper use of the term neoliberal:

The term is used as a catchall for anything that smacks of deregulation, liberalisation, privatisation or fiscal austerity.

From The Guardian.

That's just plain job-saving, resistant to change, spend government money socialism and one doesn't have to look very far to find it advocated every day in this forum.


And for what? Where does the Italian government think that AZ is going to be flying?

One thing to save 11000 jobs, but SAS is reducing their staff by 90% coz no one is buying tickets.

Totally baffles me that this AZ saga goes on and on.
 
rojo
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:31 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
And for what? Where does the Italian government think that AZ is going to be flying?

One thing to save 11000 jobs, but SAS is reducing their staff by 90% coz no one is buying tickets.

Totally baffles me that this AZ saga goes on and on.


Yet the Danish government just guaranteed that all SAS employees on Danish payroll will receive their salaries (unemployment benefits) up to the equivalent of US$3,500 (or something around that) per month.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:57 pm

rojo wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
And for what? Where does the Italian government think that AZ is going to be flying?

One thing to save 11000 jobs, but SAS is reducing their staff by 90% coz no one is buying tickets.

Totally baffles me that this AZ saga goes on and on.





Yet the Danish government just guaranteed that all SAS employees on Danish payroll will receive their salaries (unemployment benefits) up to the equivalent of US$3,500 (or something around that) per month.


Im moving to Denmark! :D
 
hinckley
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:34 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
That's just plain job-saving, resistant to change, spend government money socialism and one doesn't have to look very far to find it advocated every day in this forum.

Well, at least in this thread. :lol:

rojo wrote:
Yet the Danish government just guaranteed that all SAS employees on Danish payroll will receive their salaries (unemployment benefits) up to the equivalent of US$3,500 (or something around that) per month.

Standard Danish unemployment benefits. Nothing permanent. Nothing special. Don't try to compare it to Italy's nationalization of AZ where the Italian taxpayer will pay the salaries of employees working for a structurally insolvent airline.
 
rojo
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:01 pm

hinckley wrote:
Standard Danish unemployment benefits. Nothing permanent. Nothing special. Don't try to compare it to Italy's nationalization of AZ where the Italian taxpayer will pay the salaries of employees working for a structurally insolvent airline.


I am not trying to compare it to Italy, I am just stating the fact since people would think that SAS putting 90% of its staff out of work will mean employees not being able to make ends meet. I am from Spain and understand European unemployment benefits provided by the government, nevertheless, I am living and working for an airline in the United States and we will probably not have the same luck.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:31 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
even if the neoliberal economic rationale


That's not a proper use of the term neoliberal:

The term is used as a catchall for anything that smacks of deregulation, liberalisation, privatisation or fiscal austerity.

From The Guardian.

That's just plain job-saving, resistant to change, spend government money socialism and one doesn't have to look very far to find it advocated every day in this forum.


I meant it in the right way. Basically meant there is no longer a business reason to support the carrier.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:15 am

usdcaguy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
even if the neoliberal economic rationale


That's not a proper use of the term neoliberal:

The term is used as a catchall for anything that smacks of deregulation, liberalisation, privatisation or fiscal austerity.

From The Guardian.

That's just plain job-saving, resistant to change, spend government money socialism and one doesn't have to look very far to find it advocated every day in this forum.


I meant it in the right way. Basically meant there is no longer a business reason to support the carrier.


Maybe there isn't a business reason but there is a socio-economic one. Alitalia shutting down would leave a lot of people without income, both directly and indirectly. I guess keeping AZ alive is cheaper than the alternative.
 
olle
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:15 am

Scotron12 wrote:
rojo wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
And for what? Where does the Italian government think that AZ is going to be flying?

One thing to save 11000 jobs, but SAS is reducing their staff by 90% coz no one is buying tickets.

Totally baffles me that this AZ saga goes on and on.





Yet the Danish government just guaranteed that all SAS employees on Danish payroll will receive their salaries (unemployment benefits) up to the equivalent of US$3,500 (or something around that) per month.


Im moving to Denmark! :D



Sweden has done the same. People go home, the goverment pay major part of the salary (90% I guess) and when business is back they start to work again.
 
olle
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:17 am

rojo wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Standard Danish unemployment benefits. Nothing permanent. Nothing special. Don't try to compare it to Italy's nationalization of AZ where the Italian taxpayer will pay the salaries of employees working for a structurally insolvent airline.


I am not trying to compare it to Italy, I am just stating the fact since people would think that SAS putting 90% of its staff out of work will mean employees not being able to make ends meet. I am from Spain and understand European unemployment benefits provided by the government, nevertheless, I am living and working for an airline in the United States and we will probably not have the same luck.


This is the Scandinavian model. Your insurances is not dependent on your employer.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:15 pm

https://news.yahoo.com/italy-just-took- ... ccounter=2

Who’s is next in Europe and across the World?
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:33 pm

and will they continue reducing fleet and routes? JNB and DEL should be eliminated as they are less profitable routes, and more frequencies should be given to New York and Miami
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
LMFNINJA
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:37 pm

Good luck to Alitalia. They will need it.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:44 pm

Its fashionable and so easy to mock Alitalia and the Italian Govt here on a.net for their dysfunction, but not only is this the right thing do now for the Italian people, I dare say it possibly justifies past actions.
In the end, it is in every countries own strategic interest to have a carrier that can provide "guaranteed lift", regardless of market forces. One that serves the interests of the local people (yes, via govt guidance) and not purely beholden to private shareholders, particularly when foreign.

There's no way Italy can forever rely on the likes of Ryan, EasyJet, Wizz or even LH group to provide assured connectivity thru thick and thin.
 
KFTG
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:49 pm

Good for Alitalia. This is exactly what was needed.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:58 pm

It is a trend for the future. In a crisis the state needs access to an airline.
 
hloutweg
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:03 pm

The things with this is, every time this cycles back up to privatization it will likely result in corrupt mismanagement that uses the company to drain it of its value till its time for the government and the people of that country to write the check and save it. It’s happened before. Not only there but I’m other countries. Vicious cycle.
In Varietate Concordia
 
Ciel
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:07 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
https://news.yahoo.com/italy-just-took-full-ownership-120800558.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLnlhaG9vLmNvbS91cy1nb3Zlcm5tZW50LW5hdGlvbmFsaXplLWJvZWluZy0wMTM0NDcyNjAuaHRtbD9ndWNjb3VudGVyPTEmZ3VjZV9yZWZlcnJlcj1hSFIwY0hNNkx5OTNkM2N1WkhKMVpHZGxjbVZ3YjNKMExtTnZiUzgmZ3VjZV9yZWZlcnJlcl9zaWc9QVFBQUFEN21ld1lUUERLVFlvV3A2M0xVWHd4MmMzaVVKaHZiOTNUNjBqZHNXSkNTcjFfeVJqRFVKT25hd3dEZF9YeXE1WWNscjdZWEhJVjRfU19zM25qcUtWb2xSY0hhUy1CcUUwWEtTdzE3ZEstQm1ORUQxcVo3WU05UkdzV1VMWGRhaEVJQ0FDckI2YmtCaURoSHNWVmxVakg2LWdtaEp5M1ZIOXJQZHdqXzE3THI&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMgQGffQgiG2d4TxfYqiPoWXb3QoLFtXGlQ_GEW8_LKJq-jNtGzAPYRJDv1ekscOOkhfcwSisIA2lmhnOQfWaAv6O3CxnaNxMvhXLuRVhT-J4Jc_UkdoR75MAgOqzs3ZyVYatDVfpnglmhR-hpZ_t8sQftFcqLeraSSSX-VMSXrZ&guccounter=2

Who’s is next in Europe and across the World?


If Air France - KLM is facing bankruptcy, I think my country (and maybe Netherlands) will come to help. Due to the nature of the operations in two countries, I don't know if France, or Netherlands, can nationalize entirely (like what the Italian government just did for Alitalia), but I can see either one of these countries, or the two of them, buying shares to save it.

AF is like a "national champion" in France. Being the national carrier, it is big, it employs many, and it is a window to France in some ways. I don't see our current government, or any politics from left or right, to let AF-KLM sink, even it is seen as unfair for smaller airlines or foreign competitors. The impact on the French economy would be too disastrous.
 
onwFan
Posts: 432
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:07 pm

Good for AZ and Italy! I am in the side that feels Italy needs a national carrier :-) I have seen it mentioned many times that AZ was suppressed from expanding to the US (its most profitable long haul) as part of the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV and was basically used as just a feeder carrier. In fact, most of their long haul network suffers from lack of good partners. They need to find strong partners that can feed their network...

Interestingly, though they are in SkyTeam, most of their long haul destinations are oneworld hubs: NRT/HND, ORD, MIA, JNB, LAX, JFK, GRU, EZE (till LA leaves). If SkyTeam blocks them from pursuing external partnerships that benefit them, they should strongly consider looking elsewhere...
 
hinckley
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:24 am

seahawk wrote:
It is a trend for the future. In a crisis the state needs access to an airline.

You mean like when Italy goes to war?? . . .
 
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seahawk
Posts: 9627
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:11 am

hinckley wrote:
seahawk wrote:
It is a trend for the future. In a crisis the state needs access to an airline.

You mean like when Italy goes to war?? . . .


Or fly stranded nationals home in an emergency, transport important goods in an emergency etc.

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