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seahawk
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:11 am

hinckley wrote:
seahawk wrote:
It is a trend for the future. In a crisis the state needs access to an airline.

You mean like when Italy goes to war?? . . .


Or fly stranded nationals home in an emergency, transport important goods in an emergency etc.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:53 am

hinckley wrote:
seahawk wrote:
It is a trend for the future. In a crisis the state needs access to an airline.

You mean like when Italy goes to war?? . . .

Italy is at war right now, although a different kind of war. Corona is killing hundreds each day for some time now.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:54 am

charles022 wrote:
Does have anyone have an OSD for EI-WLA please?

What does OSD stand for?
 
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SQ22
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:58 am

MartijnNL wrote:
What does OSD stand for?


Operational Suitability Data

https://www.easa.europa.eu/easa-and-you ... y-data-osd
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:58 am

onwFan wrote:
Good for AZ and Italy! I am in the side that feels Italy needs a national carrier :-) I have seen it mentioned many times that AZ was suppressed from expanding to the US (its most profitable long haul) as part of the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV and was basically used as just a feeder carrier. In fact, most of their long haul network suffers from lack of good partners. They need to find strong partners that can feed their network...

Interestingly, though they are in SkyTeam, most of their long haul destinations are oneworld hubs: NRT/HND, ORD, MIA, JNB, LAX, JFK, GRU, EZE (till LA leaves). If SkyTeam blocks them from pursuing external partnerships that benefit them, they should strongly consider looking elsewhere...



AZ was not being used as a feeder carrier. Rather, the JV was attempting to coordinate the deployment of their respective assets as equals and did not see any profitability in flying FCO-SFO. The reason why AZ flies mostly into other alliances’ hubs is that DL has larger crews based in their traditional hubs of ATL, DTW and MSP, so they are better equipped to fly to Italy from those stations while letting AZ serve the mega destinations like JFK/MIA/LAX with their larger aircraft. DL is now the top US3 carrier at JFK while it continues to grow at LAX, so no, DL is not a weak partner for AZ. Further, AZ’s hub in Rome is largely useful for Italy only, and its geographical placement is not sufficient to be a strong competitor against the EU3. Meanwhile, the premium traffic flies to Milan, but AZ was forced to move most of its long-haul flying back to FCO against its own interests years ago. That just hurt them in the long run.

Blaming AZ’s failure on others is old hat, tired and thoroughly hashed. No number of new markets or new flight attendant uniforms will help it anymore. AZ should have been reorganized in the way of SABENA and Swissair, but it has refused to let go of its dysfunctional, codependent self. Now Italy will continue to waste taxpayer money on it as an abused wife gives her alcoholic husband money to get drunk and beat her again.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:13 pm

Any chance when everything cleans up AZ returns to EWR?
 
onwFan
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:20 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Good for AZ and Italy! I am in the side that feels Italy needs a national carrier :-) I have seen it mentioned many times that AZ was suppressed from expanding to the US (its most profitable long haul) as part of the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV and was basically used as just a feeder carrier. In fact, most of their long haul network suffers from lack of good partners. They need to find strong partners that can feed their network...

Interestingly, though they are in SkyTeam, most of their long haul destinations are oneworld hubs: NRT/HND, ORD, MIA, JNB, LAX, JFK, GRU, EZE (till LA leaves). If SkyTeam blocks them from pursuing external partnerships that benefit them, they should strongly consider looking elsewhere...



AZ was not being used as a feeder carrier. Rather, the JV was attempting to coordinate the deployment of their respective assets as equals and did not see any profitability in flying FCO-SFO. The reason why AZ flies mostly into other alliances’ hubs is that DL has larger crews based in their traditional hubs of ATL, DTW and MSP, so they are better equipped to fly to Italy from those stations while letting AZ serve the mega destinations like JFK/MIA/LAX with their larger aircraft. DL is now the top US3 carrier at JFK while it continues to grow at LAX, so no, DL is not a weak partner for AZ. Further, AZ’s hub in Rome is largely useful for Italy only, and its geographical placement is not sufficient to be a strong competitor against the EU3. Meanwhile, the premium traffic flies to Milan, but AZ was forced to move most of its long-haul flying back to FCO against its own interests years ago. That just hurt them in the long run.

Blaming AZ’s failure on others is old hat, tired and thoroughly hashed. No number of new markets or new flight attendant uniforms will help it anymore. AZ should have been reorganized in the way of SABENA and Swissair, but it has refused to let go of its dysfunctional, codependent self. Now Italy will continue to waste taxpayer money on it as an abused wife gives her alcoholic husband money to get drunk and beat her again.


I completely agree with the fact that AZ has not been managed well. But they are staying, so my comments are with that as a given - what next?

It is interesting that you say DL flies the routes to ATL, MSP and DTW because they have larger crews and bases. The reality is that AZ will never fly to ATL, FCO or MSP even if they were not in SkyTeam or part of their JV; because these are insignificant markets for Italy (this is true for most SkyTeam members). DL flies them because they want to connect people at these places and FCO to their own network and thats where they can. AZ flies to places which are relevant markets for Italy and its customers want to fly - ORD, MIA, LAX, IAD, SFO, etc. For example, they even fly twice daily to TYO but cannot even sustain sub-daily to ICN. AZ has said openly that their AF/KL JV was structured to just benefit AF/KL which is why they withdrew from it.

What other SkyTeam hubs are important markets for AZ - SLC? CGK? SGN? JED? NBO? TPE? PVG? XMN? FOC? Perhaps PVG, but they have not been able to make it work. For e.g., if LATAM gets closer to AF/KL, AZ will probably be blocked from parnering closely with them - the same way they had to go to Avianca Brazil and Azul instead of GOL. So, yes - apart from a few like AR, I feel that SkyTeam and their current partners offer little to AZ in terms of network or growth opportunities.
 
danipawa
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:17 pm

I guess they going to continue reducing the fleet
 
bennett123
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:35 pm

More lives than a Cat.
 
psimpson
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:39 pm

Nice to see a Alitalia wide-body at LHR in the form of A332 EI-EJI operating AZA79A from FCO.
 
charles022
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Re: Alitalia bankruptcy and selling process discussion thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:03 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
charles022 wrote:
Does have anyone have an OSD for EI-WLA please?

What does OSD stand for?


Out of Service Date
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:04 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Any chance when everything cleans up AZ returns to EWR?


It would be a good time to return to EWR and add more frequencies to MIA, since AZ suspended SCL and ICN but it is necessary to eliminate more routes such as JNB and DEL that are lost and are not profitable.
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 pm

onwFan wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Good for AZ and Italy! I am in the side that feels Italy needs a national carrier :-) I have seen it mentioned many times that AZ was suppressed from expanding to the US (its most profitable long haul) as part of the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV and was basically used as just a feeder carrier. In fact, most of their long haul network suffers from lack of good partners. They need to find strong partners that can feed their network...

Interestingly, though they are in SkyTeam, most of their long haul destinations are oneworld hubs: NRT/HND, ORD, MIA, JNB, LAX, JFK, GRU, EZE (till LA leaves). If SkyTeam blocks them from pursuing external partnerships that benefit them, they should strongly consider looking elsewhere...



AZ was not being used as a feeder carrier. Rather, the JV was attempting to coordinate the deployment of their respective assets as equals and did not see any profitability in flying FCO-SFO. The reason why AZ flies mostly into other alliances’ hubs is that DL has larger crews based in their traditional hubs of ATL, DTW and MSP, so they are better equipped to fly to Italy from those stations while letting AZ serve the mega destinations like JFK/MIA/LAX with their larger aircraft. DL is now the top US3 carrier at JFK while it continues to grow at LAX, so no, DL is not a weak partner for AZ. Further, AZ’s hub in Rome is largely useful for Italy only, and its geographical placement is not sufficient to be a strong competitor against the EU3. Meanwhile, the premium traffic flies to Milan, but AZ was forced to move most of its long-haul flying back to FCO against its own interests years ago. That just hurt them in the long run.

Blaming AZ’s failure on others is old hat, tired and thoroughly hashed. No number of new markets or new flight attendant uniforms will help it anymore. AZ should have been reorganized in the way of SABENA and Swissair, but it has refused to let go of its dysfunctional, codependent self. Now Italy will continue to waste taxpayer money on it as an abused wife gives her alcoholic husband money to get drunk and beat her again.


I completely agree with the fact that AZ has not been managed well. But they are staying, so my comments are with that as a given - what next?

It is interesting that you say DL flies the routes to ATL, MSP and DTW because they have larger crews and bases. The reality is that AZ will never fly to ATL, FCO or MSP even if they were not in SkyTeam or part of their JV; because these are insignificant markets for Italy (this is true for most SkyTeam members). DL flies them because they want to connect people at these places and FCO to their own network and thats where they can. AZ flies to places which are relevant markets for Italy and its customers want to fly - ORD, MIA, LAX, IAD, SFO, etc. For example, they even fly twice daily to TYO but cannot even sustain sub-daily to ICN. AZ has said openly that their AF/KL JV was structured to just benefit AF/KL which is why they withdrew from it.

What other SkyTeam hubs are important markets for AZ - SLC? CGK? SGN? JED? NBO? TPE? PVG? XMN? FOC? Perhaps PVG, but they have not been able to make it work. For e.g., if LATAM gets closer to AF/KL, AZ will probably be blocked from parnering closely with them - the same way they had to go to Avianca Brazil and Azul instead of GOL. So, yes - apart from a few like AR, I feel that SkyTeam and their current partners offer little to AZ in terms of network or growth opportunities.


You have to wonder what exactly it was about the AF/KL JV that made AZ want to withdraw. The way each individual carrier benefits from a JV is through the terms and conditions of the contract they have signed with the other carriers, and if the contract is set up correctly, all carriers will benefit equally in terms of revenue sharing. It is thus AZ's responsibility to see that those terms are set up to its advantage. So, even if AZ cannot solely serve a passenger from NAP to NTE, for example, it should still get its share of revenue from AF's flights between the two cities. FCO's geography is very challenging overall, as it presents many opportunities for tourists, but it does not for business travelers outside of Italy, who are traveling mainly to places north and west of there. It could be that AZ would be better off forming its own bilateral agreements with whichever carriers they deem fit instead of trying to fit in any one alliance. I do think that a carrier like LA, who already has an agreement with QR, would entertain partnering with both AF/KL and AZ in some markets, as they seem rather agnostic to alliance purity. It might be good for AZ to look at carriers like A3 and copy what they are doing. Both the Italian and Greek markets are similar. They are both seasonal and mainly touristic with a need for an expansive domestic network, though AZ has many more longtime employees than A3.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:03 pm

Apparently the new Alitalia public company will be much smaller, with only 25-30 aircraft

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/alit ... -aircraft/
 
hinckley
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:37 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
Apparently the new Alitalia public company will be much smaller, with only 25-30 aircraft

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/alit ... -aircraft/

. . . and a corresponding staffing reduction from 11,000 to 3,000.

This is very different and very interesting news. The article essentially asserts that after nationalization, the Italian government will do the dirty work to take a machete rather than a scalpel to AZ's structure, and then try to float a new, much much smaller AZ on the public market, thereby "un-doing" the initial nationalization. A very admirable plan, if accurate. And of course the larger "if" is "if possible" in Italy's turbulent government environment. I wish them the best.
 
Blerg
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:57 pm

This is a smart move in the right direction. Will be interesting if it all goes through. I think focusing on point to point traffic would be the wisest move at the moment. Rome has enough O&D to make it work with such a fleet. What interests me the most is the fleet make up and how many and which widebodies they would keep.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:31 pm

Lets hope that the 8,000 terminated staff don't protest infront of the state and to Conte after they take action on this. I highly doubt this will pass as Italy cannot adapt into the future unless there is a major event like what is happening right now.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Sounds they gonna keep long haul and maybe some key EU routes
 
danipawa
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:41 pm

with no local competition> All A321 and olders A319/20 going, maybe A330 or the B772 fleet. supossing 30 AC in mainline
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:00 pm

What's gonna happen with the slots AZ got at LIN?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:23 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Lets hope that the 8,000 terminated staff don't protest infront of the state and to Conte after they take action on this. I highly doubt this will pass as Italy cannot adapt into the future unless there is a major event like what is happening right now.


Protest how? Italy is on a lockdown, with self-declarations necessary for anyone found outside, with a listed serious reason for being out and about.
I gather the item "participating a mass protest against restructuring of Alitalia" is not an acceptable option on self-declaration... Not to mention even gathering into crowds.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
iadadd
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:21 pm

Laying off 8000 people from a nationalized company when the country is suffering from a global pandemic (with the potential of economic downturn post-COVID) just sounds off. While this may be necessary, it's pretty bad PR and I don't think will occur soon
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:25 am

iadadd wrote:
Laying off 8000 people from a nationalized company when the country is suffering from a global pandemic (with the potential of economic downturn post-COVID) just sounds off. While this may be necessary, it's pretty bad PR and I don't think will occur soon


Upthread, a "comair" scenario was mentioned. It remains a legitimate option, just this one is "comair-light".

You could actually structure it in several different ways, for example:
1) hand-picking who stays and who goes
2) offering voluntary (incentivized) redundancies
3) giving the final force structure directly to the unions, and suggesting they work out internally -- who stays

It goes without saying that it needs a PR exercise about how kind it is of taxpayers to give this boatload of money to save a loss-making company, and how visionary the government is to do it, and how grateful should the employees be for not facing unemployment through the bankruptcy.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
spannacomo
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:33 am

FlyHappy wrote:
Its fashionable and so easy to mock Alitalia and the Italian Govt here on a.net for their dysfunction, but not only is this the right thing do now for the Italian people, I dare say it possibly justifies past actions.
In the end, it is in every countries own strategic interest to have a carrier that can provide "guaranteed lift", regardless of market forces. One that serves the interests of the local people (yes, via govt guidance) and not purely beholden to private shareholders, particularly when foreign.

What is alitalia doing that can't be done by other private companies such as Neos or Blue Panorama just to name a few from Italy? These are healthy companies that do not require billions of taxpayer money to stay afloat.
FlyHappy wrote:
There's no way Italy can forever rely on the likes of Ryan, EasyJet, Wizz or even LH group to provide assured connectivity thru thick and thin.

why? I am sure they can also provide connectivity at a fair price, especially now that hundreds or even thousands of planes are available.Fair price means you do not need to waste billions as with alitalia.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:26 pm

spannacomo wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
Its fashionable and so easy to mock Alitalia and the Italian Govt here on a.net for their dysfunction, but not only is this the right thing do now for the Italian people, I dare say it possibly justifies past actions.
In the end, it is in every countries own strategic interest to have a carrier that can provide "guaranteed lift", regardless of market forces. One that serves the interests of the local people (yes, via govt guidance) and not purely beholden to private shareholders, particularly when foreign.

What is alitalia doing that can't be done by other private companies such as Neos or Blue Panorama just to name a few from Italy? These are healthy companies that do not require billions of taxpayer money to stay afloat.
FlyHappy wrote:
There's no way Italy can forever rely on the likes of Ryan, EasyJet, Wizz or even LH group to provide assured connectivity thru thick and thin.

why? I am sure they can also provide connectivity at a fair price, especially now that hundreds or even thousands of planes are available.Fair price means you do not need to waste billions as with alitalia.


I perceive you are an Italian taxpayer; I am not. As such, I respect your more vested interest in local taxation.

I can only say from afar, that Neos/Blue Panorama are small, leisure focused carriers with limited capability. They cannot be counted on to fill a "strategic" role in the national interest if needed (will they even fully survive COVID-19?). You may not feel this to ever be necessary, but I think its good insurance for every independent country to possess.
 
spannacomo
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
I perceive you are an Italian taxpayer; I am not. As such, I respect your more vested interest in local taxation.

10 billion euros so far, and still growing, it's too much believe me

FlyHappy wrote:
I can only say from afar, that Neos/Blue Panorama are small, leisure focused carriers with limited capability. They cannot be counted on to fill a "strategic" role in the national interest if needed (will they even fully survive COVID-19?). You may not feel this to ever be necessary, but I think its good insurance for every independent country to possess.

Neos and Blue Panorama combined have a fleet of about 30 airplanes, some of them are brand new B787 while alitalia has none of that. Do you know how many AZ airplanes are flying at a given moment nowadays? No more than a dozen, so I guess we don't need big airlines. Both Neos and Blue Panorama were involved to bring back italians stranded abroad, but only a minority, you know why? Because the government payed 53 M€ to alitalia for that reason, and gave nothing to other national airlines. Only private money is paying neos and blue panorama flights. The government a few days ago allocated 500 M€ to national airlines that "ensure a public service", do you know how many italian companies qualify for this definition? Just one. Nothing was allocated for other companies. Do you know that air italy just folded without one cent going into their pockets from the government to save them? Do you know that Ernest airlines, another small italian airline just folded without any help from the government?
Italy needs a national airline for moments like the one we are living? I can agree with that, but why we need this airline to be alitalia instead of neos for instance? The government should help healthy national airlines to grow and develop their business, but they are not doing that, on the opposite they are ensuring healthy companies face the competition of one large out of the market company that can sell at any price their seats because at the end of the year taxpayers will pay the bills, can you tell me what is the sense of this?
 
hinckley
Posts: 559
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Re: Italy has nationalized Alitalia

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:35 pm

spannacomo wrote:
The government should help healthy national airlines to grow and develop their business, but they are not doing that, on the opposite they are ensuring healthy companies face the competition of one large out of the market company that can sell at any price their seats because at the end of the year taxpayers will pay the bills, can you tell me what is the sense of this?

Unfortunately, I think that that is exactly why this very high-minded restructuring plan will never be implemented.
 
Nola
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:02 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
onwFan wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:


AZ was not being used as a feeder carrier. Rather, the JV was attempting to coordinate the deployment of their respective assets as equals and did not see any profitability in flying FCO-SFO. The reason why AZ flies mostly into other alliances’ hubs is that DL has larger crews based in their traditional hubs of ATL, DTW and MSP, so they are better equipped to fly to Italy from those stations while letting AZ serve the mega destinations like JFK/MIA/LAX with their larger aircraft. DL is now the top US3 carrier at JFK while it continues to grow at LAX, so no, DL is not a weak partner for AZ. Further, AZ’s hub in Rome is largely useful for Italy only, and its geographical placement is not sufficient to be a strong competitor against the EU3. Meanwhile, the premium traffic flies to Milan, but AZ was forced to move most of its long-haul flying back to FCO against its own interests years ago. That just hurt them in the long run.

Blaming AZ’s failure on others is old hat, tired and thoroughly hashed. No number of new markets or new flight attendant uniforms will help it anymore. AZ should have been reorganized in the way of SABENA and Swissair, but it has refused to let go of its dysfunctional, codependent self. Now Italy will continue to waste taxpayer money on it as an abused wife gives her alcoholic husband money to get drunk and beat her again.


I completely agree with the fact that AZ has not been managed well. But they are staying, so my comments are with that as a given - what next?

It is interesting that you say DL flies the routes to ATL, MSP and DTW because they have larger crews and bases. The reality is that AZ will never fly to ATL, FCO or MSP even if they were not in SkyTeam or part of their JV; because these are insignificant markets for Italy (this is true for most SkyTeam members). DL flies them because they want to connect people at these places and FCO to their own network and thats where they can. AZ flies to places which are relevant markets for Italy and its customers want to fly - ORD, MIA, LAX, IAD, SFO, etc. For example, they even fly twice daily to TYO but cannot even sustain sub-daily to ICN. AZ has said openly that their AF/KL JV was structured to just benefit AF/KL which is why they withdrew from it.

What other SkyTeam hubs are important markets for AZ - SLC? CGK? SGN? JED? NBO? TPE? PVG? XMN? FOC? Perhaps PVG, but they have not been able to make it work. For e.g., if LATAM gets closer to AF/KL, AZ will probably be blocked from parnering closely with them - the same way they had to go to Avianca Brazil and Azul instead of GOL. So, yes - apart from a few like AR, I feel that SkyTeam and their current partners offer little to AZ in terms of network or growth opportunities.


You have to wonder what exactly it was about the AF/KL JV that made AZ want to withdraw. The way each individual carrier benefits from a JV is through the terms and conditions of the contract they have signed with the other carriers, and if the contract is set up correctly, all carriers will benefit equally in terms of revenue sharing. It is thus AZ's responsibility to see that those terms are set up to its advantage. So, even if AZ cannot solely serve a passenger from NAP to NTE, for example, it should still get its share of revenue from AF's flights between the two cities. FCO's geography is very challenging overall, as it presents many opportunities for tourists, but it does not for business travelers outside of Italy, who are traveling mainly to places north and west of there. It could be that AZ would be better off forming its own bilateral agreements with whichever carriers they deem fit instead of trying to fit in any one alliance. I do think that a carrier like LA, who already has an agreement with QR, would entertain partnering with both AF/KL and AZ in some markets, as they seem rather agnostic to alliance purity. It might be good for AZ to look at carriers like A3 and copy what they are doing. Both the Italian and Greek markets are similar. They are both seasonal and mainly touristic with a need for an expansive domestic network, though AZ has many more longtime employees than A3.



Alitalia probably wasn't included in the new JV due to uncertainty as to who exactly would own/run Alitalia and whether their cost structure could be changed. The JV partners said that they would be interested in discussing adding Alitalia in the future.

"Alitalia is not a party to the Amended JVA, which will not be implemented until the preexisting SkyTeam JV to which Alitalia is a party is terminated according to the terms of that agreement. Although the Parties hope to implement metal-neutral cooperation with Alitalia in the future, Alitalia is currently undergoing restructuring through the Italian bankruptcy process, and its future ownership structure is uncertain. The timing of any future agreement with Alitalia is currently uncertain," the application said.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... p-alitalia

Another article indicated that the JV was given six months (beginning in November2019) to work out a new deal with Alitalia:

"The US Department of Transportation (DOT) has given Alitalia and Delta Air Lines six months to reach a commercial agreement which would allow the Italian carrier to be included in a transatlantic joint venture that also includes Air France, KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, and Virgin Atlantic."

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nt-venture

I'd expect that once the state owned Alitalia business plan is implemented, the JV will seek to include Alitalia and ask for relief from the six month deadline due to the shutdown of global air travel.
 
factsonly
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:51 pm

April 2, 2020: Alitalia B77W EI-WLA is on the move to Novosibirsk:

- AZ9410 FCO 17.20 - OVB 04.13 B777-3Q8ER EI-WLA

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-wla
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:51 pm

If indeed brutally shrunk, the new Alitalia might be attractive to new investors. Not letting AF-KLM reform them was an error.
Not letting the management after KLM reform...
oh wait, must be Etihad's fault...
Then post Etihad reform.

I'm not thinking there will be real reform.
The ULCCs, some will survive. Alitalia must reform with the understanding that is the competition.

Lightsaber
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danipawa
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:22 pm

When will we start seeing massive withdrawals around here?

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