Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
F9flyer wrote:For those Keeping score...
Yes, Alitalia keeps flying, but my take is that they are delaying the inevitable by 12 to 18 months. Make no mistake, without these agreements it would be a bad day at Italian ticket counters.
11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
eta unknown wrote:Well the govt. seems to have found a new magic formula: the 2 banks will lend AZ the money with the govt. as guarantor. Of course, how long EY will continue to throw money away is a mystery- with so much shrinkage you can't produce the plan's revenue projections which are unrealistic even if AZ stayed in current size.
Bongodog1964 wrote:11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
My prediction is contrary to yours, when the day finally comes when civil aviation ceases, Not only will Alitalia still be operating, but they'll also still be losing money
Bostrom wrote:11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
Why do you believe that?
(I'm not saying you're wrong, but so far, Alitalia has always managed to be saved somehow.)
lightsaber wrote:Bongodog1964 wrote:11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
My prediction is contrary to yours, when the day finally comes when civil aviation ceases, Not only will Alitalia still be operating, but they'll also still be losing money
I would not bet against that prediction. In fact, it will probably come true.
Alitalia is the ultimate Zombie corporation.
Lightsaber
lesfalls wrote:Is this the end for AZ then? I hope not.
lesfalls wrote:Is this the end for AZ then? I hope not.
aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale with the winner also acquiring the leases on aircraft.
TheGeordielad wrote:Why say no.If you get your wage cut it's better than not having a job is it AZ staff.In an economy which hasn't been in its prime for the last few years.Really AZ staff.
commavia wrote:Italian politicians have - for decades - repeatedly shown that when faced with the prospect of liquidation of the national flag carrier, they'll step in and bail Alitalia out, and in the process stave of economic reality of Alitalia's workers and unions. Alitalia's workers have just, yet again, called the politicians' bluff. We'll see if this time is any different - given the Italian government's mounting financial pressures, perhaps it will be.
aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale
Noshow wrote:The brand is an icon no doubt. But what would be the values left, that a new investor could make use of?
kitplane01 wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale
How does an airline sell it's routes. Except for a few international rights to non-EU and non-US destinations, they have no property rights in those routes.
Bostrom wrote:kitplane01 wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale
How does an airline sell it's routes. Except for a few international rights to non-EU and non-US destinations, they have no property rights in those routes.
I guess their slots at Heathrow have some value.
Bostrom wrote:kitplane01 wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale
How does an airline sell it's routes. Except for a few international rights to non-EU and non-US destinations, they have no property rights in those routes.
I guess their slots at Heathrow have some value.
aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale with the winner also acquiring the leases on aircraft. The business model of AZ has to end, which is why staff should be excluded from any sale. Might Air France-KLM be interested and implement an LCC structure? Might IAG be willing to expand Vueling? Might Lufthansa give Italy another try and make Milan a hub and reduce intercontinental routes from Rome?
Andy33 wrote:Bostrom wrote:kitplane01 wrote:
How does an airline sell it's routes. Except for a few international rights to non-EU and non-US destinations, they have no property rights in those routes.
I guess their slots at Heathrow have some value.
They do have some value to Etihad, but not alas to Alitalia. Etihad bought them from Alitalia during one of the earlier restructuring attempts, and leases them back.
kitplane01 wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:The airline's routes should be put up for sale
How does an airline sell it's routes. Except for a few international rights to non-EU and non-US destinations, they have no property rights in those routes.
I don't think so, because EY knew perfectly well what they were getting into, it's not like any new information has suddenly been revealed. In fact, they probably still have a bit to go to match the amount of money they have burned on AB.I see Etihad is committing even more money, some €200 million. They must be rueing the day they ever got involved.
We've been saying that every 3 years for the past 15 years. So why will it be different this time around? As has been said, AZ is the ultimate zombie airline. What amazes me is how they've been able to circumvent EU regulators each time - I guess it's the classic "too [politically] big to fail".My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
Bostrom wrote:So what happens now? Is there a plan B after plan A was rejected?