Updated ITA/Alitalia News and Discussion Thread

ContinentalEWR · Fri May 14, 2021 11:20 am

DKNEF wrote:
Are they still flying to MEX? And do they plan to start SFO?

MEX, ICN, HAV, SCL were all axed for good. What's left of AZ long haul is planned to be JFK, BOS, LAX, EZE, GRU, NRT with all of it from FCO. MXP to JFK, NRT have been terminated. The "new" AZ will only have about 6-10 long haul aircraft to start.

N717TW · Fri May 14, 2021 12:18 pm

FWIW, Delta's most recent posting about partnerships has added AZ back into the graphics.
https://news.delta.com/infographic-delt ... e-partners

For much of the past few years AZ disappeared off its partner lists, maps except for anything that was listing a full SkyTeam partnership. Not sure if there is anything to read into this although DL codeshares with several other alliance partners but doesn't list them.

mercure1 · Fri May 14, 2021 4:49 pm

Government preparing to inject €800m as first tranch of eventual €3 bil in new company. Looking at "mid-July" launch of new entity.

https://www.corriere.it/economia/aziend ... 1502.shtml

dcajet · Wed May 26, 2021 10:14 pm

With its future viability surrounded in uncertainty and combined with the pandemic, Alitalia now says it does not plan to return to Buenos Aires EZE (one of its few profitable routes) until August.

https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2021/05/ ... ue-vuelva/

EFA2014 · Wed May 26, 2021 11:27 pm

What about IAD? I was there this past weekend and the ticket counter is still up

mercure1 · Thu May 27, 2021 4:49 pm

EU agrees on deal on Alitalia's successor company.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-26/

Agreed company will have about 60 aircraft and 5,000 employees.

The ground handling and maintenance parts, as well as the Alitalia brand, will have to be put in a tender in which the new company will have the ability to purchase back.

Goal is to have the entity up by August.

Per EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager the ultimate goal “is to give back to Italy a national air transport carrier, capable of ensuring internal and outside connections, guaranteeing the development of operations and employment, and operating at conditions of profitability”.

FCOTSTW · Thu May 27, 2021 5:24 pm

I was listening to Italian TV yesterday (RAI1, name of the program "Porta a Porta") and the Italian minister of labor clearly stated that although the company name is changing, the airline' s name (its D/B/A) will stay the same. Once again, a lot of public money thrown at a company that will go down again in a few years, no matter what.

eurotrader85 · Thu May 27, 2021 6:43 pm

mercure1 wrote:
EU agrees on deal on Alitalia's successor company.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-26/

Agreed company will have about 60 aircraft and 5,000 employees.

The ground handling and maintenance parts, as well as the Alitalia brand, will have to be put in a tender in which the new company will have the ability to purchase back.

Goal is to have the entity up by August.

Per EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager the ultimate goal “is to give back to Italy a national air transport carrier, capable of ensuring internal and outside connections, guaranteeing the development of operations and employment, and operating at conditions of profitability”.

This feels like a bit of a capitulation by the EU at the end hurdle. By my reckoning Alitalia will still keep most of its Linate slots (I'm deliberately using the Alitalia name to make a point) and will be flying in the air in Alitalia colours again once its gone through the tender farce. Call it what you like but seems a victory for the Italian political cronies who have been keeping a hard-on for 'an Italian flag carrier' at the expense to Italian taxpayers for a number of years. Given the stance only a few weeks ago one has to wonder what Italy has on the EU in diplomatic circles. A sad end to what was looking to be a real win for taxpayers over out of touch politicians with misguided romantic notions.

IADFCO · Thu May 27, 2021 7:07 pm

mercure1 wrote:

[...]

Agreed company will have about 60 aircraft and 5,000 employees.

[...]

About 50-52 aircraft to start (only about 40 currently used anyway, with all the covid cuts), with the expectation of 78 next year, https://www.corriere.it/economia/aziende/21_maggio_27/nuova-alitalia-primo-accordo-italia-ue-dimezzati-flotta-personale-995c9f88-be68-11eb-a5e7-170774e96424.shtml, on its way to about 100 (sorry, no link for this). IAD-FCO has always been rumored to stay (it's available today for purchase for a flight in mid-September in a mock reservation).

miaintl · Sat May 29, 2021 12:16 pm

Does anyone know if AZ will still fly to MIA? It was their only other profitable route in North America after JFK. It is still available for booking in July or august.

mercure1 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:46 pm

Seems like our German friends at Lufthansa still interested in participating in Alitalia restructuring having put forward a proposal to participate in capital infusion.

https://www.corriere.it/economia/aziend ... a044.shtml

dcajet · Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:12 pm

While this info is specific to EZE, I suspect the same applies for all of AZ´s long haul destinations (with the exception of JFK): AZ has pushed back its return to EZE until September, which is when the "new" AZ/ITA is expected to be operational.

https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2021/06/ ... -esta-vez/

LAXintl · Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:19 pm

Italy’s government to allocate another bridging loan to Alitalia, as the re-establishment of the carrier slips into the fall.

https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/alitali ... ti-AEANHfT

Also Italian government is holding talks with EU this week regarding details about the structure of the new company

LAXintl · Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:45 pm

ITA – Italia Trasporto Aereo obtained its AOC.

https://www.lagenziadiviaggi.it/ita-e-l ... ssunzioni/

Says looking at October takeoff.

ContinentalEWR · Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:17 am

LAXintl wrote:
ITA – Italia Trasporto Aereo obtained its AOC.

https://www.lagenziadiviaggi.it/ita-e-l ... ssunzioni/

Says looking at October takeoff.

I wouldn't hold my breath. The pandemic may push that off further.

LAXintl · Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:09 pm

EU reached deal with Italy and approved the launch of ITA

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-07-15/

"The statement said Alitalia would stop operating on Oct. 15 and that all passengers holding Alitalia tickets to travel after that date would be offered alternatives.

"With ITA a new important Italian airline, with significant development perspectives and capable of competing in the national and international market, is born," Transport Minister Enrico Giovannini said."

lightsaber · Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:55 pm

However, ITA will inherit only part of Alitalia's flight slots - one of the main sticking points in the negotiations and a key asset for carriers - thus accepting the Commission's demands. It will get 85% of the old Alitalia slots at Milan's Linate airport and 43% at Rome's Fiumicino hub.
https://m.investing.com/news/stock-mark ... ?ampMode=1

So significantly downsized. This is not what Italy wanted (Italy as in decision makers).

Of the 11,000-strong Alitalia staff, between 2,750 and 2,950 will be employed in the ITA's aviation unit this year, rising to 5,550-5,700 in 2025.
Ouch. Over 8,000 out the door initially, with about or just over half the staff in 2025...

This is the reset Alitalia needed. Hopefully staffed lean enough to recover. They should mandate a coronavirus vaccine for all hires. :devil:

PANAMsterdam · Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:24 pm

They can keep the same livery, just remove the AL and the LIA.

mercure1 · Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
However, ITA will inherit only part of Alitalia's flight slots - one of the main sticking points in the negotiations and a key asset for carriers - thus accepting the Commission's demands. It will get 85% of the old Alitalia slots at Milan's Linate airport and 43% at Rome's Fiumicino hub.

So significantly downsized. This is not what Italy wanted (Italy as in decision makers).

FCO slots dont really matter as they are available for the taking, so ITA will apply and receive new slots it needs.

LIN slots might hurt more as those are very scarce and certainly backfilled by someone else happy to have them.

dcajet · Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:59 pm

It appears that ITA will take to long haul international flying in stages, slowly rebuilding Alitalia´s network:

* Boston, New York, Tokyo and Miami this winter pending a further easing of Covid-19 travel restrictions
* Buenos Aires, Los Angeles, São Paulo and Washington DC., would begin by next summer

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/07/italy ... s-october/

It also appears that ITA will initially standardize its fleet with one supplier, and that it would be Airbus, That would leave out the 12'strong 777 fleet operated before the pandemic.

https://leehamnews.com/2021/07/19/ponti ... more-37102

lesfalls · Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:42 am

IAD I would expect is the lowest in terms of profit out of all of them (with the others being the main markets where profit is visible) so I don’t see the case for it as its barely operate for 2 years previously. All the other destinations have been served by AZ for a long time.

ContinentalEWR · Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:58 am

lesfalls wrote:
IAD I would expect is the lowest in terms of profit out of all of them (with the others being the main markets where profit is visible) so I don’t see the case for it as its barely operate for 2 years previously. All the other destinations have been served by AZ for a long time.

Not sure why AZ is focused on IAD. They have no connectivity on the IAD end and compete with UA (when the seasonal IAD-FCO route operates). JFK, BOS, GRU, EZE, NRT, LAX and MIA are the only long haul destinations that were ever profitable for AZ and so it's logical that they'd focus on those markets. Interesting that MXP-JFK will come back as part of the "new" airline as it was slated to be axed. Not holding my breath on this one. The new company remains a state-subsidized hot mess.

IADFCO · Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:47 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
IAD I would expect is the lowest in terms of profit out of all of them (with the others being the main markets where profit is visible) so I don’t see the case for it as its barely operate for 2 years previously. All the other destinations have been served by AZ for a long time.

Not sure why AZ is focused on IAD. They have no connectivity on the IAD end and compete with UA (when the seasonal IAD-FCO route operates). JFK, BOS, GRU, EZE, NRT, LAX and MIA are the only long haul destinations that were ever profitable for AZ and so it's logical that they'd focus on those markets. Interesting that MXP-JFK will come back as part of the "new" airline as it was slated to be axed. Not holding my breath on this one. The new company remains a state-subsidized hot mess.

HEY! Leave IAD-FCO alone! :mad:

dcajet · Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:26 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
IAD I would expect is the lowest in terms of profit out of all of them (with the others being the main markets where profit is visible) so I don’t see the case for it as its barely operate for 2 years previously. All the other destinations have been served by AZ for a long time.

Not sure why AZ is focused on IAD. They have no connectivity on the IAD end and compete with UA (when the seasonal IAD-FCO route operates). JFK, BOS, GRU, EZE, NRT, LAX and MIA are the only long haul destinations that were ever profitable for AZ and so it's logical that they'd focus on those markets. Interesting that MXP-JFK will come back as part of the "new" airline as it was slated to be axed. Not holding my breath on this one. The new company remains a state-subsidized hot mess.

Lots still up in the air, or at least, not publicly disclosed. If ITA indeed ends up with a fleet of A330s on a first phase, I am not sure how they plan to serve EZE, which unless flown by the 242T version of the A330-200, it is subject to important load penalties from FCO. AR flies on the route (the longest by distance A330-200 route) but using the newer 242T version. Tokyo may also be a challenge for the A330, particularly westbound.

Time will tell...

ContinentalEWR · Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:37 pm

Will they continue to maintain the lease on the sole 77W which was converted to a freighter earlier this year?

dcajet · Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:49 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Will they continue to maintain the lease on the sole 77W which was converted to a freighter earlier this year?

I don't think so. The odd 77W was rumored to have been on its way out before COVID (it was used to fly to EZE, GRU & JFK). It has been stored for a while now, so I think if one 777 is going away, this has to be it....

ContinentalEWR · Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm

dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Will they continue to maintain the lease on the sole 77W which was converted to a freighter earlier this year?

I don't think so. The odd 77W was rumored to have been on its way out before COVID (it was used to fly to EZE, GRU & JFK). It has been stored for a while now, so I think if one 777 is going away, this has to be it....

The 77W was to be returned to lessors as COVID19 took hold (it was on an expensive lease owing to AZ's poor credit rating). It was retained and to at least March/April 2021, it was flying cargo only as an AZ plane. It was used for pax service to JFK during Northern Hemisphere summer and to EZE/GRU in Southern Hemisphere summer.

bennett123 · Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:46 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-wla

Not flown in last 7 days.

bennett123 · Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:48 pm

IIRC, the A319, A320 and A321 are on the same type rating. What about the A330?.

jbs2886 · Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:53 pm

I imagine ITA will not be in Skyteam (at least at launch)? Tried to look through the thread but didn't see an answer.

eurotrader85 · Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:09 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
I imagine ITA will not be in Skyteam (at least at launch)? Tried to look through the thread but didn't see an answer.

Believe the ruling was that they would have to leave the FF programme behind and thus the new entity will have to divorce itself from SkyTeam from the start. Not sure if this was also dropped by the EU in the seeming last-minute overall capitulation, but there have of course been the rumours of LH being involved with the new group so maybe a Miles & More could be an option.

lesfalls · Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
I imagine ITA will not be in Skyteam (at least at launch)? Tried to look through the thread but didn't see an answer.

Believe the ruling was that they would have to leave the FF programme behind and thus the new entity will have to divorce itself from SkyTeam from the start. Not sure if this was also dropped by the EU in the seeming last-minute overall capitulation, but there have of course been the rumours of LH being involved with the new group so maybe a Miles & More could be an option.

Sounds like LH is highly connected to the EU compared to AF as Germany and France must be the strong countries in the EU. Anyone able to explain the political agenda of LH as they seem to have lobbyers in Berlin and Brussels and seem to get what they want?

Do send a message directly if you don’t want to be seen posting a direct response to the following question.

RvA · Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:15 pm

lesfalls wrote:
eurotrader85 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
I imagine ITA will not be in Skyteam (at least at launch)? Tried to look through the thread but didn't see an answer.

Believe the ruling was that they would have to leave the FF programme behind and thus the new entity will have to divorce itself from SkyTeam from the start. Not sure if this was also dropped by the EU in the seeming last-minute overall capitulation, but there have of course been the rumours of LH being involved with the new group so maybe a Miles & More could be an option.

Sounds like LH is highly connected to the EU compared to AF as Germany and France must be the strong countries in the EU. Anyone able to explain the political agenda of LH as they seem to have lobbyers in Berlin and Brussels and seem to get what they want?

Do send a message directly if you don’t want to be seen posting a direct response to the following question.

The question didn’t follow? Was there meant to be something after?

davidjohnson6 · Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:18 pm

AF and KL wasted large quantities of time and money in the last 30 years on trying to keep Alitalia viable and/or within Skyteam. Eventually they gave up. While AF-KL has since changed its CEO, I imagine the combined memory of many of the AF-KL employees suggests a reluctance to get involved again

DUSZRH · Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:44 pm

AF has a ton of competitive problems itself. No need to further complicate things with getting involved with Alitalia.

Moreover the EUC commanded no takeover as long as the state aid isn’t paid back. Given AFs struggles before the pandemic (just barely profitable), this will still take some time.

usdcaguy · Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:29 pm

You do have to wonder what DL is thinking about all of this. They had initially teamed up with FS and another entity to make a proposal for AZ itself, but the plans fell apart in the end. I imagine they made the proposal to increase the buying price for any potential LH offer. I believe AZ offers very little in the way of additional connectivity over AF/KL. There are of course the domestic Italian markets that AZ offers, but DL flies (or flew) to places like FCO, MXP, VCE and PSA on their own, which make up the bulk of US traveler destinations in Italy. With AF/KL flying to places like FLR and CTA anyway, US-based travelers loyal to DL aren't really losing much if AZ goes to Star.

davidjohnson6 · Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Apart from FCO, MXP, VCE, PSA, FLR and CTA, AF-KL also cover TRN, VRN, GOA and NAP

That leaves just BRI and PMO as well as Sardinia amongst the busiest airports that Delta can't reach.

MIflyer12 · Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:29 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
You do have to wonder what DL is thinking about all of this. They had initially teamed up with FS and another entity to make a proposal for AZ itself, but the plans fell apart in the end. I imagine they made the proposal to increase the buying price for any potential LH offer. I believe AZ offers very little in the way of additional connectivity over AF/KL. There are of course the domestic Italian markets that AZ offers, but DL flies (or flew) to places like FCO, MXP, VCE and PSA on their own, which make up the bulk of US traveler destinations in Italy. With AF/KL flying to places like FLR and CTA anyway, US-based travelers loyal to DL aren't really losing much if AZ goes to Star.

I don't disagree with your reasoning but I have to wonder how much the Alitalia codeshare made those routes viable with Italian POS. This isn't good for Delta - we just don't know how bad it is yet.

usdcaguy · Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:22 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
You do have to wonder what DL is thinking about all of this. They had initially teamed up with FS and another entity to make a proposal for AZ itself, but the plans fell apart in the end. I imagine they made the proposal to increase the buying price for any potential LH offer. I believe AZ offers very little in the way of additional connectivity over AF/KL. There are of course the domestic Italian markets that AZ offers, but DL flies (or flew) to places like FCO, MXP, VCE and PSA on their own, which make up the bulk of US traveler destinations in Italy. With AF/KL flying to places like FLR and CTA anyway, US-based travelers loyal to DL aren't really losing much if AZ goes to Star.

I don't disagree with your reasoning but I have to wonder how much the Alitalia codeshare made those routes viable with Italian POS. This isn't good for Delta - we just don't know how bad it is yet.

You're right. It likely isn't good for Delta, but most of its business is US POS anyway, so I don't see much potential loss. AA already flies into Italy without a partner and does just fine, and it can also route traffic over LHR/MAD as needed as DL can over CDG/AMS. NYC is also very important to the Italian market where DL is strong, and if AZ does pull MIA, DL can funnel that traffic over ATL as needed. I just don't see DL losing much here but see ITA (aka AZ) as the winner if they go with Star given the preference of Northern Italians for LH and the Italian diaspora in Germany. Not great for SkyTeam, but they won't miss AZ.

NZ321 · Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:16 am

usdcaguy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
You do have to wonder what DL is thinking about all of this. They had initially teamed up with FS and another entity to make a proposal for AZ itself, but the plans fell apart in the end. I imagine they made the proposal to increase the buying price for any potential LH offer. I believe AZ offers very little in the way of additional connectivity over AF/KL. There are of course the domestic Italian markets that AZ offers, but DL flies (or flew) to places like FCO, MXP, VCE and PSA on their own, which make up the bulk of US traveler destinations in Italy. With AF/KL flying to places like FLR and CTA anyway, US-based travelers loyal to DL aren't really losing much if AZ goes to Star.

I don't disagree with your reasoning but I have to wonder how much the Alitalia codeshare made those routes viable with Italian POS. This isn't good for Delta - we just don't know how bad it is yet.

You're right. It likely isn't good for Delta, but most of its business is US POS anyway, so I don't see much potential loss. AA already flies into Italy without a partner and does just fine, and it can also route traffic over LHR/MAD as needed as DL can over CDG/AMS. NYC is also very important to the Italian market where DL is strong, and if AZ does pull MIA, DL can funnel that traffic over ATL as needed. I just don't see DL losing much here but see ITA (aka AZ) as the winner if they go with Star given the preference of Northern Italians for LH and the Italian diaspora in Germany. Not great for SkyTeam, but they won't miss AZ.

Agreed. We could see a new alignment here, but surely we need a new name on the plane (even: "Italia") and a new visual feel. The old brand is pretty tried and tarnished. Not their best friend going forward. Time to shake off the shackles and emerge from the rubble.

factsonly · Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:33 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Apart from FCO, MXP, VCE, PSA, FLR and CTA, AF-KL also cover TRN, VRN, GOA and NAP

That leaves just BRI and PMO as well as Sardinia amongst the busiest airports that Delta can't reach.

- KLM and Transavia also serve Bologna and Cagliari on Sardinia
- Transavia flies to Olbia, Perugia, Bari and Palermo
- AF/HOP serve most of these destinations as well.

DL sells all these destinations on their website via CDG/AMS.

JerseyFlyer · Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:55 pm

Speculation about an all-Airbus fleet in Simple Flying:

"The confidential sources, reporting through the Italian media, already have a potential fleet plan. The airline’s future composition may be as follows:

12 Airbus A220-300s
40 Airbus A320neo
Five A321neos
23 A330-900 or A350-900"

https://simpleflying.com/alitalia-repla ... t-options/

bennett123 · Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:27 pm

A completely new fleet.

That will cost a packet.

jbs2886 · Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:35 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Speculation about an all-Airbus fleet in Simple Flying:

"The confidential sources, reporting through the Italian media, already have a potential fleet plan. The airline’s future composition may be as follows:

12 Airbus A220-300s
40 Airbus A320neo
Five A321neos
23 A330-900 or A350-900"

https://simpleflying.com/alitalia-repla ... t-options/

Seems unnecessarily complicated - so doesn't look like ITA will really be that much better. Just dump the A223s and A321neos and go all in on A320neos. I can't imagine the benefit of those small fleets exceeds the extra costs (however minimal they may be for the A321neos).

airsmiles · Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:38 am

Are they definitely using “ITA” as the airline name? Regardless of their terrible financials, I still can’t believe they’re dumping the iconic Alitalia name.

ContinentalEWR · Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:17 am

airsmiles wrote:
Are they definitely using “ITA” as the airline name? Regardless of their terrible financials, I still can’t believe they’re dumping the iconic Alitalia name.

They're not necessarily dumping "Alitalia". They would have to purchase the name, at auction, in order to use it. It's not totally clear yet what this latest incarnation of Alitalia will be called.

ContinentalEWR · Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:20 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Speculation about an all-Airbus fleet in Simple Flying:

"The confidential sources, reporting through the Italian media, already have a potential fleet plan. The airline’s future composition may be as follows:

12 Airbus A220-300s
40 Airbus A320neo
Five A321neos
23 A330-900 or A350-900"

https://simpleflying.com/alitalia-repla ... t-options/

Simple Flying is a speculative mess, poorly written, and not fact checked a lot of the time. The issue with AZ's fleet is a combination of age and lease costs. The A321's were, I believe all removed (they were some of the oldest 321's flying around and dated back to the 1990s). The 319 and 320 fleets are also up in age. The A332s are all leased, as I recall, on high rates most likely given AZ's poor credit rating, and don't have the range and capacity for a good portion of what the new airline's long haul network will look like. The 777s were delivered in the early to mid-2000s (originally, AZ had ordered 6 747-400s, all of which ended up with VS, and the 772 was selected instead).

intotheair · Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:33 pm

That Simple Flying breakdown is basically just a rehashing of a Corriere della Sera article that interviewed “three industry sources.” They list that breakdown, but the original story also speculates quite a bit on whether ITA might go with a Boeing order.

Speedy752 · Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:09 am

jbs2886 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
Speculation about an all-Airbus fleet in Simple Flying:

"The confidential sources, reporting through the Italian media, already have a potential fleet plan. The airline’s future composition may be as follows:

12 Airbus A220-300s
40 Airbus A320neo
Five A321neos
23 A330-900 or A350-900"

https://simpleflying.com/alitalia-repla ... t-options/

Seems unnecessarily complicated - so doesn't look like ITA will really be that much better. Just dump the A223s and A321neos and go all in on A320neos. I can't imagine the benefit of those small fleets exceeds the extra costs (however minimal they may be for the A321neos).

I would think until they prove they’re actually turning a corner they would keep the 77E, renegotiate any a320 leases, get rid of the oldest and buy some a321XLRs and top up a320neos. Or perhaps get the a320s from lessors who repossessed them from other airlines recently. I can’t imagine the credit of new Alitalia will somehow be better than the old Alitalia.

jbs2886 · Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:48 am

Speedy752 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
Speculation about an all-Airbus fleet in Simple Flying:

"The confidential sources, reporting through the Italian media, already have a potential fleet plan. The airline’s future composition may be as follows:

12 Airbus A220-300s
40 Airbus A320neo
Five A321neos
23 A330-900 or A350-900"

https://simpleflying.com/alitalia-repla ... t-options/

Seems unnecessarily complicated - so doesn't look like ITA will really be that much better. Just dump the A223s and A321neos and go all in on A320neos. I can't imagine the benefit of those small fleets exceeds the extra costs (however minimal they may be for the A321neos).

I would think until they prove they’re actually turning a corner they would keep the 77E, renegotiate any a320 leases, get rid of the oldest and buy some a321XLRs and top up a320neos. Or perhaps get the a320s from lessors who repossessed them from other airlines recently. I can’t imagine the credit of new Alitalia will somehow be better than the old Alitalia.

Credit is actually probably much better by jettisoning old debt, union contracts, and other obligations, coupled with some government backing. (Yes, I know its not *that* simple, but I anticipate much better finances because its cleaner.) But, I agree seems a full-blown fleet replacement is a bit aggressive.

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