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Spiderguy252
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Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:49 pm

With a huge launch and several dozens of A320 orders same time a decade ago, they find themselves operating a scarce fleet of 7 birds flying to regional destinations today. Their DXB hub was shut down (forcibly by FlyDubai, some say) and their India operations wound up barely after they had got started.

They had the advantage of setting up shop at a time when the national carrier KU was effectively static, and the frequently flying 3+ million population of Kuwait as their target market.

I was fortunate to fly KWI-BOM on them back in Summer '08 and it was a nice experience, especially since it was my first time on any LCC until that point. I recall the in-flight magazine on that flight in particular proclaiming the start of something big for the airline, but here we are and they've only shrunk.

What did they do wrong?
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TheLion
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:26 pm

Good question. They were ambitious but the DXB operation closure and financial crisis made them to change their plans in 2010. They cancelled their Airbus orders and retrenched:

http://www.atwonline.com/aircraft-amp-e ... s-25-a320s

Their Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazeera_Airways) also has this in the history section:

"Jazeera changed its operation model by concentrating on its Kuwait hub and trying to launch a second hub somewhere else. By Q2 2010, the new model proved unprofitable as the Kuwait hub suffered from overcapacity. The airline changed its plans by cancelling many stations and parking some aircraft which were later returned to lessor."

I think they do still have ambitions but their home market is still a small one, just 4.3 million. The rise and rise of the ME3 dominating traffic across the the region won't have helped either, nor will KU's modernisation, which seems intent on restoring them to past glories.
 
keitherson
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:35 pm

Air Arabia destroyed them.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:31 am

Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Not enough thrust at liftoff and boost stages. ;)
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TheGeordielad
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:15 am

Some restrictions by governments to protect their very own carriers like in Dubai they were launching FlyDubai at the time and didn't want anyone taking up space,Slots and most of all passengers.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:29 am

TheGeordielad wrote:
Some restrictions by governments to protect their very own carriers like in Dubai they were launching FlyDubai at the time and didn't want anyone taking up space,Slots and most of all passengers.


Yeah, it's funny how FlyDubai have been granted unlimited access to KWI with even their own dedicated terminal (Sheikh Saad), while Jazeera got booted out of DXB.

Politics at play there.
Vahroone
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:20 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
Some restrictions by governments to protect their very own carriers like in Dubai they were launching FlyDubai at the time and didn't want anyone taking up space,Slots and most of all passengers.


Yeah, it's funny how FlyDubai have been granted unlimited access to KWI with even their own dedicated terminal (Sheikh Saad), while Jazeera got booted out of DXB.

Politics at play there.

Yeah I bet jazeera wasn't happy at all.
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:37 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
Some restrictions by governments to protect their very own carriers like in Dubai they were launching FlyDubai at the time and didn't want anyone taking up space,Slots and most of all passengers.


Yeah, it's funny how FlyDubai have been granted unlimited access to KWI with even their own dedicated terminal (Sheikh Saad), while Jazeera got booted out of DXB.

Politics at play there.


That is one rumor but it's not necessarily true or not the only reason.

Jazeera was using DXB as a hub between 2007-09. But when EK asked the Kuwait authorities if they could set up a hub at KWI and get fifth-freedom rights from there, the Kuwait authorities refused. So Dubai in turn cut the rights for Jazeera at DXB.
 
Monty1988
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:06 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
Some restrictions by governments to protect their very own carriers like in Dubai they were launching FlyDubai at the time and didn't want anyone taking up space,Slots and most of all passengers.


Yeah, it's funny how FlyDubai have been granted unlimited access to KWI with even their own dedicated terminal (Sheikh Saad), while Jazeera got booted out of DXB.

Politics at play there.


That is one rumor but it's not necessarily true or not the only reason.

Jazeera was using DXB as a hub between 2007-09. But when EK asked the Kuwait authorities if they could set up a hub at KWI and get fifth-freedom rights from there, the Kuwait authorities refused. So Dubai in turn cut the rights for Jazeera at DXB.


The rumor is not true, Kuwait & UAE enjoy exceptional relations on every level, Emirates never asked for 5th freedom rights in Kuwait, Jazeera was asked to cease operations in Dubai as its a private company competing with FlyDubai and that was not acceptable, If EY or EK or KU would ask for 5th freedom rights it would be granted immediately believe it or not! Sheikh Saad Terminal in Kuwait was about to be demolished after Wataniya airways ceased operations but FlyDubai asked Kuwait civil aviation authority if they can use it as KWI is small and extremely congested and it was approved, Jazeera was hoping to buy KAC but the parliament apposed it, By the way Jazeera is a profitable airline and they are currently building their own terminal and they are planning to open KWI AGP maybe this summer, Wataniya airways will restart operations this fall.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:23 pm

I too find it hard to believe that EK asked for fifth freedom rights from KWI. DXB has always been their sole hub.

GF on the other hand did around 2013-14, and even got permission to operate to CDG/FRA/Cyprus, but never followed through IIRC.
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CanadaFair
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:05 pm

Saudia and Kuwait Airways used to route some flights via Dubai in 1970s/80s to subcontinent, one of KU aircraft got hijacked on the Dubai-Karachi sector.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:48 pm

Good question and it is quite strange that they are still as small as they are after all this time.

Kuwait authorities allegedly also play hard ball with KU which was rumoured to be the reason for their CEO quitting. According to an article I read at the time this news surfaced, foreign carriers were receiving more favourable treatment than the national carrier.

I am not entirely certain what form this more favourable treatment takes but the fact that there are 2 home carriers in a burgeoning, wealthy market failing to make any significant and lasting impact is suspicious.

Kuwait government also appears to drag it's feet with regards to airport infrastructure construction. Compared to it's neighbours, it seems to move at a snail's pace.

Air travel to and from Kuwait is apparently booming. The airport can barely handle current traffic and is, the last time I heard, operating way beyond it's capacity.

It is all really weird...
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:14 am

CanadaFair wrote:
Saudia and Kuwait Airways used to route some flights via Dubai in 1970s/80s to subcontinent, one of KU aircraft got hijacked on the Dubai-Karachi sector.


If you're referring to this incident, it was a KWI-KHI non-stop:

On 3 December 1984, a Kuwait Airways flight from Kuwait City to Karachi, Pakistan, was hijacked by four Lebanese Shi'a hijackers and diverted to Tehran.[105] The hijackers' demand was the release of 17 Shi'ite Muslim prisoners for their role in the 1983 Kuwait bombings, which was not met. During the course of the stand-off women, children and Muslims were released and two American officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development, Charles Hegna and William Stanford, were shot dead and dumped on the tarmac. The few dozen passengers left on board, particularly Americans were threatened and tortured. "Every five minutes there was a frightening incident. There was no letup at all," British flight engineer Neil Beeston told the BBC.Paradoxically the hijackers released a statement claiming "We do not have any enmity toward anyone and we do not intend to deny the freedom of anyone or to frighten anyone..." On the sixth day of the grueling ordeal, Iranian security forces stormed the plane and released the remaining hostages. Authorities said they would be brought to trial, but the hijackers were released and allowed to leave the country. Some passengers and officials suggested complicity by Iran in the hijacking and that the hostage rescue had been staged. One Kuwaiti and two Pakistani passengers claimed that the hijackers received additional weapons and equipment once the plane had landed, including handcuffs and nylon ropes used to tie passengers to their seats. One American official wondered if the surrender was not preplanned: "You do not invite cleaners aboard an aeroplane after you have planted explosives, promised to blow up the plane, and read your last will and testament." The U.S. State Department announced a $250,000 reward for information leading to the arrests of those involved in the hijacking, but made no military response. Later press reports linked Hezbollah's Imad Mughniyah to the hijackings.
Vahroone
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 am

Im sure it was via Dubai and this mentiones it http://www.pressreader.com/kuwait/kuwai ... 9664852637
 
Monty1988
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:09 am

MoKa777 wrote:
Good question and it is quite strange that they are still as small as they are after all this time.

Kuwait authorities allegedly also play hard ball with KU which was rumoured to be the reason for their CEO quitting. According to an article I read at the time this news surfaced, foreign carriers were receiving more favourable treatment than the national carrier.

I am not entirely certain what form this more favourable treatment takes but the fact that there are 2 home carriers in a burgeoning, wealthy market failing to make any significant and lasting impact is suspicious.

Kuwait government also appears to drag it's feet with regards to airport infrastructure construction. Compared to it's neighbours, it seems to move at a snail's pace.

Air travel to and from Kuwait is apparently booming. The airport can barely handle current traffic and is, the last time I heard, operating way beyond it's capacity.

It is all really weird...


Currently as we speak 3 Airports are under construction in Kuwait, 1 Kuwait International airport new Terminal. 2 Kuwait airways terminal. 3 Jazeera airways terminal. As for the reason projects in Kuwait usually get delayed is the government bureaucracy plus an apposing parliament, KAC Chairwoman mentioned all the obstacles in her resignation letter
 
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:52 pm

3 Airports are under construction in Kuwait?

Do you mean three construction projects are taking place at Kuwait International Airport or actually three airports are currently under construction in Kuwait?
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TheGeordielad
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:16 pm

I believe he means 3 airport terminals.
 
Monty1988
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Tue May 02, 2017 9:08 pm

Cunard wrote:
3 Airports are under construction in Kuwait?

Do you mean three construction projects are taking place at Kuwait International Airport or actually three airports are currently under construction in Kuwait?


I apologize I meant 3 new Terminals, Kuwait International T2, Kuwait Airways Supporting Terminal, Jazeera Airways Terminal, + New 4.5 KM 3rd Runway and new taxiway ways plus massive car parking.
 
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Tue May 02, 2017 9:10 pm

Monty1988 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
3 Airports are under construction in Kuwait?

Do you mean three construction projects are taking place at Kuwait International Airport or actually three airports are currently under construction in Kuwait?


I apologize I meant 3 new Terminals, Kuwait International T2, Kuwait Airways Supporting Terminal, Jazeera Airways Terminal, + New 4.5 KM 3rd Runway and new taxiway ways plus massive car parking.


Is a third runway really necessary?
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Monty1988
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Tue May 02, 2017 11:06 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
Monty1988 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
3 Airports are under construction in Kuwait?

Do you mean three construction projects are taking place at Kuwait International Airport or actually three airports are currently under construction in Kuwait?


I apologize I meant 3 new Terminals, Kuwait International T2, Kuwait Airways Supporting Terminal, Jazeera Airways Terminal, + New 4.5 KM 3rd Runway and new taxiway ways plus massive car parking.


Is a third runway really necessary?


Yes very much needed specialy with KAC's fleet expansion, Wataniya airways making a return, Jazeera airways also is planning an expansion in its operations, KWI has been experiencing massive increase in traffic, As far as i know the new runway will be mainly used for heavy wide bodies, And the 2nd east runway will be enhanced as well.
 
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 5:32 am

Monty1988 wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
Monty1988 wrote:

I apologize I meant 3 new Terminals, Kuwait International T2, Kuwait Airways Supporting Terminal, Jazeera Airways Terminal, + New 4.5 KM 3rd Runway and new taxiway ways plus massive car parking.


Is a third runway really necessary?


Yes very much needed specialy with KAC's fleet expansion, Wataniya airways making a return, Jazeera airways also is planning an expansion in its operations, KWI has been experiencing massive increase in traffic, As far as i know the new runway will be mainly used for heavy wide bodies, And the 2nd east runway will be enhanced as well.


Sure, but one of the existing two runways (15L / 33L) is barely used. Any reasons for that?
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 8:28 am

I remember Jazeera Airways (J9) operated to a number of interesting destinations out of Dubai. You could fly nonstop to BAH (the flight continued to KWI), MLE, BOM, DEL, and COK. I think MCT and SLL as well.
From KWI, J9 operated to a number of secondary destinations, like Damascus, Deir ez Zor in Syria, plus a large number of secondary cities in Egypt, like Alexandria, Assiut, Luxor, Sohag etc. Interestingly, they only came to CAI-by far the most important city in Egypt- at a later stage. They still fly to most of these places in Egypt, but of course the Syrian routes have been cut completely.
I myself recall doing at least two roundtrips on J9, DXB-BAH between 2005-2008. They were a nice outfit, and cheap, around 600 dirhams for a return ticket, baggage included. There was no flydubai back then, and we hated making the drive to fly Air Arabia out of SHJ.

Does anyone remember Bahrain Air (2B)? They were an LCC that flew out of BAH to places like DXB, AMM, HBE, BEY etc., but didn't last long.
 
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 8:49 am

MoKa777 wrote:
Monty1988 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
3 Airports are under construction in Kuwait?

Do you mean three construction projects are taking place at Kuwait International Airport or actually three airports are currently under construction in Kuwait?


I apologize I meant 3 new Terminals, Kuwait International T2, Kuwait Airways Supporting Terminal, Jazeera Airways Terminal, + New 4.5 KM 3rd Runway and new taxiway ways plus massive car parking.


Is a third runway really necessary?


Of course it's not needed, it's a vanity project which will mean lots of wasta in the 'right hands', but little of any real operational value. Compare, if you will, with LGW - a single runway airport.

In 2016 numbers
LGW: 275,633 movements& 43M passengers
In 2015 numbers
KWI: 100.000 movements & 11M passengers

KWI needs a third runway in the same way I need a third leg. Which is to say, not a lot.
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 9:07 am

B777LRF wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
Monty1988 wrote:

I apologize I meant 3 new Terminals, Kuwait International T2, Kuwait Airways Supporting Terminal, Jazeera Airways Terminal, + New 4.5 KM 3rd Runway and new taxiway ways plus massive car parking.


Is a third runway really necessary?


Of course it's not needed, it's a vanity project which will mean lots of wasta in the 'right hands', but little of any real operational value. Compare, if you will, with LGW - a single runway airport.

In 2016 numbers
LGW: 275,633 movements& 43M passengers
In 2015 numbers
KWI: 100.000 movements & 11M passengers

KWI needs a third runway in the same way I need a third leg. Which is to say, not a lot.


Exactly! I thought about LGW as well.

Even LHR and DXB with 2 runways give an idea of what KWI can achieve with the 2 runways they already have.

I am sure it would be much cheaper to upgrade, strengthen and/or lengthen the existing runways than to build a new one, if a "better" runway is needed.
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MoKa777
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 9:08 am

What are the pax growth figures expected for Kuwait?
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Monty1988
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 11:11 am

One of the current runways is mainly used by Military.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 1:57 pm

Monty1988 wrote:
One of the current runways is mainly used by Military.


It's only the transport arm of the KAF which is based at KWI. Or, as they call it, the Abdullah al-Mubarak Air Base. They employ a total of 8 airframes; 6 x C-130 and 2 x C-17. I'm not quite sure that warrents an entire runway for their sole use or maybe, with just a hint of pragmatism, that runway could also be utilised by commercial operators. I mean, it's hardly as if you've got a C-17 standing by for QRA duties!

But this is the ME we're talking about, even 'worse' a piece of real estate swimming in a sea of oil. A couple billion more or less hardly makes a difference, except for the person(s) at the receiving end of the wasta money.
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Monty1988
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Wed May 03, 2017 9:45 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Monty1988 wrote:
One of the current runways is mainly used by Military.


It's only the transport arm of the KAF which is based at KWI. Or, as they call it, the Abdullah al-Mubarak Air Base. They employ a total of 8 airframes; 6 x C-130 and 2 x C-17. I'm not quite sure that warrents an entire runway for their sole use or maybe, with just a hint of pragmatism, that runway could also be utilised by commercial operators. I mean, it's hardly as if you've got a C-17 standing by for QRA duties!

But this is the ME we're talking about, even 'worse' a piece of real estate swimming in a sea of oil. A couple billion more or less hardly makes a difference, except for the person(s) at the receiving end of the wasta money.


Actually that's not correct most of coalition fighting ISIS logistical airplanes are using that runway, And the decision to add another runway is to make the airport future proof specialy with the launch of the new terminals and the new cargo city, anyhow that's that.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Mon May 08, 2017 9:45 am

Monty1988 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Monty1988 wrote:
One of the current runways is mainly used by Military.


It's only the transport arm of the KAF which is based at KWI. Or, as they call it, the Abdullah al-Mubarak Air Base. They employ a total of 8 airframes; 6 x C-130 and 2 x C-17. I'm not quite sure that warrents an entire runway for their sole use or maybe, with just a hint of pragmatism, that runway could also be utilised by commercial operators. I mean, it's hardly as if you've got a C-17 standing by for QRA duties!

But this is the ME we're talking about, even 'worse' a piece of real estate swimming in a sea of oil. A couple billion more or less hardly makes a difference, except for the person(s) at the receiving end of the wasta money.


Actually that's not correct most of coalition fighting ISIS logistical airplanes are using that runway, And the decision to add another runway is to make the airport future proof specialy with the launch of the new terminals and the new cargo city, anyhow that's that.


Funny. I flew out of KWI overnight and we ended up using 15L for departure.

Image

I have used it in the past as well. It is surely reserved for commercial traffic every now and then.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Why didn't Jazeera Airways achieve escape velocity?

Mon May 08, 2017 3:01 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
Good question and it is quite strange that they are still as small as they are after all this time.

Kuwait authorities allegedly also play hard ball with KU which was rumoured to be the reason for their CEO quitting. According to an article I read at the time this news surfaced, foreign carriers were receiving more favourable treatment than the national carrier.

I am not entirely certain what form this more favourable treatment takes but the fact that there are 2 home carriers in a burgeoning, wealthy market failing to make any significant and lasting impact is suspicious.

Kuwait government also appears to drag it's feet with regards to airport infrastructure construction. Compared to it's neighbours, it seems to move at a snail's pace.

Air travel to and from Kuwait is apparently booming. The airport can barely handle current traffic and is, the last time I heard, operating way beyond it's capacity.

It is all really weird...


I found the airport to be quite busy but in general sufficient...except for the toilets. For some reason half of the toilets had "Closed" signs on them and those that were open were tiny and only had 1 or 2 cabins and a line of about 5 men waiting to use them. They were also, of course, dirty and smelly. Very unimpresive! I've never seen a problem like that at an airport before. Even in India and other poor countries you don't see such conditions.

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