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deltalaw
Topic Author
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:47 pm

DL expands MIA-HAV

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:08 pm

Just saw the release from DL, but they are adding an additional MIA-HAV daily frequency from Dec 15 2017. Very interesting move as most carriers are retreating from the Cuban market. No mention of what kind of metal, but maybe a second frequency with both being downguaged?
 
sagechan
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:17 pm

Umm.. Wouldn't they have to apply for one of the recently opened authorities first?
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MAH4546
Posts: 26529
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:18 pm

Delta has applied with DOT to operate an additional, second daily Miami-Havana flight. Nothing can be added unless it is approved, and there could be more applications than available slots.
a.
 
commavia
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Delta has applied with DOT to operate an additional, second daily Miami-Havana flight. Nothing can be added unless it is approved, and there could be more applications than available slots.


Indeed. JetBlue and Delta have now moved to capture some of the freed-up HAV frequencies - let's see if AA, Southwest or United vie for them as well.
 
miaskies
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:08 am

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:33 pm

Any word on equipment?
Crosscheck Complete :)
 
Superunkown
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:34 am

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:29 am

Does DL have a flight to any other place that is not ATL/DL hub, from MIA?

Maybe B6 and DL are hoarding all operations from Florida to Cuba sensing that demand will warrant it.
Last edited by Superunkown on Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
deltalaw
Topic Author
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:31 am

miaskies wrote:
Any word on equipment?


The initial press release didn't include a proposed schedule or equipment type.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9321
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:17 am

Superunkown wrote:
Does DL have a flight to any other place that is not ATL/DL hub, from MIA?

Maybe B6 and DL are hoarding all operations from Florida to Cuba sensing that demand will warrant it.


Orlando.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... Airport.do

This isn't a 'Let's compete more broadly in MIA' thing. Cuba-destination demand is overwhelmingly from SoFlorida.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26529
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:25 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Superunkown wrote:
Does DL have a flight to any other place that is not ATL/DL hub, from MIA?

Maybe B6 and DL are hoarding all operations from Florida to Cuba sensing that demand will warrant it.


Orlando.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... Airport.do

This isn't a 'Let's compete more broadly in MIA' thing. Cuba-destination demand is overwhelmingly from SoFlorida.


Also DL flies MIA-IND/CMH/DCA/RDU, but with RJs, for cruise traffic.
a.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:33 am

MAH4546 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Superunkown wrote:
Does DL have a flight to any other place that is not ATL/DL hub, from MIA?

Maybe B6 and DL are hoarding all operations from Florida to Cuba sensing that demand will warrant it.


Orlando.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... Airport.do

This isn't a 'Let's compete more broadly in MIA' thing. Cuba-destination demand is overwhelmingly from SoFlorida.


Also DL flies MIA-IND/CMH/DCA/RDU, but with RJs, for cruise traffic.


Not at MIA of course there huge hub there already but I wish AA would take DL approach on these kind of mini / focus hub PTP flying.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10300
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:36 am

DL flies numerous flights every day from Miami to the various New York airports. New York, of course, has a substantial and diverse Latino population.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:53 am

Delta is asking for 7 of 21 available vacant frequencies.

Proposes Eff 12/15/17

DL585 MIA-HAV 0700-0820 A320
DL586 HAV-MIA 0920-1040 A320

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:51 am

LAXintl wrote:
Delta is asking for 7 of 21 available vacant frequencies.

Proposes Eff 12/15/17

DL585 MIA-HAV 0700-0820 A320
DL586 HAV-MIA 0920-1040 A320

=


Are they forcing AA hand? or preemptively grabbing them for the market has it matures.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26529
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:10 am

Delta's application states the that it's strongest performing Cuba route has been MIA. This isn't shocking, but people were arguing ad nauseum how it was a pointless application and DL should stick to ATLHAV.
a.
 
grbauc
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:16 am

I wonder why AA hasn't tried to pick up more.
 
FSDan
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:35 pm

grbauc wrote:
I wonder why AA hasn't tried to pick up more.


Well, if competitors like DL and B6 are applying for additional South Florida to HAV service, there's almost no chance the DOT would opt to strengthen AA's leading position over awarding the additional slots to a competitor.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:37 pm

FSDan wrote:
Well, if competitors like DL and B6 are applying for additional South Florida to HAV service, there's almost no chance the DOT would opt to strengthen AA's leading position over awarding the additional slots to a competitor.


I agree. Despite the fact that AA probably has the highest likelihood of filling MIA-HAV flights - given the connections and huge O&D traveler base owing to its hub at MIA - I can't imagine the DOT giving AA any more HAV frequencies at this point.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9321
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:42 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Superunkown wrote:
Does DL have a flight to any other place that is not ATL/DL hub, from MIA?

Maybe B6 and DL are hoarding all operations from Florida to Cuba sensing that demand will warrant it.


Orlando.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... Airport.do

This isn't a 'Let's compete more broadly in MIA' thing. Cuba-destination demand is overwhelmingly from SoFlorida.


Also DL flies MIA-IND/CMH/DCA/RDU, but with RJs, for cruise traffic.


Thanks for correcting my list. Flightstats.com for Friday, 4/21, didn't show those routes because they weren't operating that day.
 
axiom
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:49 pm

Superunkown wrote:
Does DL have a flight to any other place that is not ATL/DL hub, from MIA?

Maybe B6 and DL are hoarding all operations from Florida to Cuba sensing that demand will warrant it.


Don't forget, WN is also in the market with FLL-HAV, FLL-VRA, FLL-SNU, and TPA-HAV. They may also dive for an additional FLL-HAV frequency, though I see them as the most conservative player in the FL-Cuba market.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1284
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Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:05 pm

commavia wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Well, if competitors like DL and B6 are applying for additional South Florida to HAV service, there's almost no chance the DOT would opt to strengthen AA's leading position over awarding the additional slots to a competitor.


I agree. Despite the fact that AA probably has the highest likelihood of filling MIA-HAV flights - given the connections and huge O&D traveler base owing to its hub at MIA - I can't imagine the DOT giving AA any more HAV frequencies at this point.

14 out of 21 slots are being applied for, right? So why would AA not be allowed to try for 7?
-Andrés Juánez
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:25 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
14 out of 21 slots are being applied for, right? So why would AA not be allowed to try for 7?


True. I should have been more clear - I was making that comment in the context of my earlier comment hypothesizing about other airlines also applying for slots. I agree that, hypothetically, if no other airline applies for any more of the freed-up frequencies, AA could also apply for seven additional frequencies and each of AA, Delta and JetBlue would get their frequencies uncontested. But if other airlines apply, and the available frequencies are then subject to a competitive route proceeding, I think AA will be at the absolute back of the line.

This may, in fact, be precisely the calculus that AA is weighing - waiting and watching to see if other carriers apply and, if so, for what. If no other carriers apply, AA may well apply for the other seven frequencies. As said, I could easily see AA wanting a fifth daily MIA-HAV. Given the scheduling flexibility that having a hub in MIA affords, maybe AA's smartest play is to emphasis the speed with which it could restore lost capacity into the South Florida-HAV market. Spirit is exiting FLL-HAV on 31 May, and Frontier is exiting MIA-HAV a few days later on 4 June. JetBlue has proposed to start its seven new weekly flights on 1 November, and Delta "no later than" 15 December. AA could apply for seven frequencies and say "we'll start our new flights no later than 15 June to ensure this important market isn't without vital capacity" blah blah blah or something like that.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:12 pm

commavia wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Well, if competitors like DL and B6 are applying for additional South Florida to HAV service, there's almost no chance the DOT would opt to strengthen AA's leading position over awarding the additional slots to a competitor.


I agree. Despite the fact that AA probably has the highest likelihood of filling MIA-HAV flights - given the connections and huge O&D traveler base owing to its hub at MIA - I can't imagine the DOT giving AA any more HAV frequencies at this point.



So best thing to battle this will be AAA up gauging it's aircraft. I'm sure HAV can handle big planes.
 
nadavatar64
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:16 pm

Nice to see DL growing in AA's territory.Out of curiosity , how is the ATL-HAV flight doing?
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:23 pm

commavia wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
14 out of 21 slots are being applied for, right? So why would AA not be allowed to try for 7?


True. I should have been more clear - I was making that comment in the context of my earlier comment hypothesizing about other airlines also applying for slots. I agree that, hypothetically, if no other airline applies for any more of the freed-up frequencies, AA could also apply for seven additional frequencies and each of AA, Delta and JetBlue would get their frequencies uncontested. But if other airlines apply, and the available frequencies are then subject to a competitive route proceeding, I think AA will be at the absolute back of the line.

This may, in fact, be precisely the calculus that AA is weighing - waiting and watching to see if other carriers apply and, if so, for what. If no other carriers apply, AA may well apply for the other seven frequencies. As said, I could easily see AA wanting a fifth daily MIA-HAV. Given the scheduling flexibility that having a hub in MIA affords, maybe AA's smartest play is to emphasis the speed with which it could restore lost capacity into the South Florida-HAV market. Spirit is exiting FLL-HAV on 31 May, and Frontier is exiting MIA-HAV a few days later on 4 June. JetBlue has proposed to start its seven new weekly flights on 1 November, and Delta "no later than" 15 December. AA could apply for seven frequencies and say "we'll start our new flights no later than 15 June to ensure this important market isn't without vital capacity" blah blah blah or something like that.


I hope so. I understand why American Airlines is conservative especially with Doug running the helm and what he's seen airlines go through the last 20yrs. Minus LAX I just don't see American always being so proactive and forward thinking in grabbing market share. Delta never seems to miss a beat on an opportunity I just hope and wish American would be a little more like that.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: DL expands MIA-HAV

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:30 pm

grbauc wrote:
I understand why American Airlines is conservative especially with Doug running the helm and what he's seen airlines go through the last 20yrs. Minus LAX I just don't see American always being so proactive and forward thinking in grabbing market share. Delta never seems to miss a beat on an opportunity I just hope and wish American would be a little more like that.


I'm not sure I agree with that premise, or assessment.

First off, AA under Doug Parker's leadership has been anything but conservative (I'd actually say AA has been "proactive and forward thinking") when it comes to network development in strategically important areas like LAX and Asia. In fact, even domestically, I think AA's network evolution in the last few years has been extremely impressive - not only leveraging the network synergies of the combined route system to link AA hubs with USAirways spokes, and vice versa, but also enhancing and deepening AA's presence in some historically weak spots (particularly the west coast).

Beyond that, I don't think AA - or any other airline - would ever, in this day in age, say they were "grabbing market share." The U.S. network carriers are working to build comprehensive global networks relevant to high-yielding customers, not gain or retain market share.

In this case specifically, we'll soon see if AA feels the need to respond to competitive moves in the South Florida-HAV market, and whether or not AA thinks it is worth trying to bulk up its MIA-HAV schedule.

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