Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
enilria wrote:*DL BOS-AUS OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-BNA SEP 0.7>1.4 OCT 0.7>1.7 NOV 0.8>1.8
*DL BOS-BUF SEP 0>1.9 OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
DL BOS-MBJ DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-MCI OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-MCO OCT 2>3
*DL BOS-NAS DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-ORF OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-PUJ DEC 0.1>0.3
DL JFK-CUN DEC 2>3
*DL JFK-PDX OCT 1.0>1.7 NOV 1.0>1.7
DL LAX-BOS DEC 1.3>3
DL LGA-BOS SEP 14>13
Q wrote:What is this airport code of USA? You meant UST (St Augustine) or UTA (Tunica)? Which one?
Q
Alsatian wrote:AUS 630 - 1220 BOS 319
BOS 1930 - 2310 AUS 319
dfwking wrote:Alsatian wrote:AUS 630 - 1220 BOS 319
BOS 1930 - 2310 AUS 319
A late evening departure from Boston is not going to capture Boston originating business traffic in this market. The schedule seems to sugges that the are they playing to capture Austin-originating business traffic. WN and B6 have sub-par schedules for Austin-originating traffic. This seems like a smart move on the part of DL.
Question is, will we see B6 or other airline response to maintain share on these routes? Does B6 have the planes to increase frequency on overlapping routes? Do they have the appetite to sustain RASM declines/losses on these routes?
avi8 wrote:Long live competition... may the best one survive
iyerhari wrote:Thank u enilria as always.
Q wrote:What is this airport code of USA? You meant UST (St Augustine) or UTA (Tunica)? Which one?
Q
BUFJACK10 wrote:All the G4 changes are cuts. Is this something seasonally normal for them? Due to MD80 retirements? Maintenance? Seems expensive to have so much hardware sitting around not generating revenue, especially that have brand new frames on order.
Thanks
avi8 wrote:Interesting to see that JAX, MCI and ORF have limited connections from BOS. No European flights connect to any of these.
Also interesting to note that this is the second hub invasion from DL. First it was SEA, now it's Boston; funny to note each city is at opposite corners of the country.
klm617 wrote:*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
enilria wrote:G4 LIT-SFB AUG 0.5>0.1
G4 SFB-XNA AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.6>0.3 OCT 0.5>0.3 NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.6>0.3
iyerhari wrote:*DL BOS-AUS OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-BNA SEP 0.7>1.4 OCT 0.7>1.7 NOV 0.8>1.8
*DL BOS-BUF SEP 0>1.9 OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
DL BOS-MBJ DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-MCI OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-MCO OCT 2>3
*DL BOS-NAS DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-ORF OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-PUJ DEC 0.1>0.3
DL LAX-BOS DEC 1.3>3
Wow - BOS expansion. DL is dead serious on being the legacy carrier of choice in BOS and not allowing either B6 or Southwest to takeover any route. AUS, MCI was surprising. Hopefully DL brings in ORD, DCA, SDF and PHLThank u enilria as always.
avi8 wrote:Interesting to see that JAX, MCI and ORF have limited connections from BOS. No European flights connect to any of these.
Also interesting to note that this is the second hub invasion from DL. First it was SEA, now it's Boston; funny to note each city is at opposite corners of the country.
freakyrat wrote:iyerhari wrote:*DL BOS-AUS OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-BNA SEP 0.7>1.4 OCT 0.7>1.7 NOV 0.8>1.8
*DL BOS-BUF SEP 0>1.9 OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
DL BOS-MBJ DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-MCI OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-MCO OCT 2>3
*DL BOS-NAS DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-ORF OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-PUJ DEC 0.1>0.3
DL LAX-BOS DEC 1.3>3
Wow - BOS expansion. DL is dead serious on being the legacy carrier of choice in BOS and not allowing either B6 or Southwest to takeover any route. AUS, MCI was surprising. Hopefully DL brings in ORD, DCA, SDF and PHLThank u enilria as always.
According to the DOT statistics from last year on popular city pairs and developing markets there is probably enough demand now (Thanks to United's SBN-EWR flight) for Delta to offer an regional jet flight from SBN-BOS R/T.
ERJ170 wrote:Here's hoping DL does a RDU expansion next... MCI, JAX, BDA, MSY, and SJU would be nice... SAN or ORD would also make sense... then, I would think DL would've set, no???
BUFJACK10 wrote:All the G4 changes are cuts. Is this something seasonally normal for them? Due to MD80 retirements? Maintenance? Seems expensive to have so much hardware sitting around not generating revenue, especially that have brand new frames on order.
Thanks
dfwking wrote:Alsatian wrote:AUS 630 - 1220 BOS 319
BOS 1930 - 2310 AUS 319
A late evening departure from Boston will not capture Boston-originating business traffic. The schedule suggests that DL is playing for Austin-originating business traffic. WN and B6 have sub-par schedules to serve that segment. This seems like a smart move on the part of DL.
Question is, will we see a B6 or other airline response to maintain share on these routes? Does B6 have the planes to increase frequency on overlapping routes? Do they have the appetite to endure RASM declines/losses on these routes?
klm617 wrote:*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
HVNandrew wrote:avi8 wrote:Interesting to see that JAX, MCI and ORF have limited connections from BOS. No European flights connect to any of these.
Also interesting to note that this is the second hub invasion from DL. First it was SEA, now it's Boston; funny to note each city is at opposite corners of the country.
Definitely some similarities in terms of size, business-focus, and demographics between the cities. The also geographically mirror each other and have strong international demand.
Though DL is starting from a different place in BOS - quite a bit of history there, from having a full-fledged hub at one point to even now having quite a substantial operation. I think this expansion should work out - DL has a lot of brand awareness in the BOS market, modern and functional facilities, and has shown a commitment to stick it out and grow in what they consider strategically important markets over the last decade.
avi8 wrote:Interesting to see that JAX, MCI and ORF have limited connections from BOS. No European flights connect to any of these.
Also interesting to note that this is the second hub invasion from DL. First it was SEA, now it's Boston; funny to note each city is at opposite corners of the country.
tlecam wrote:I agree with this, although I also think that there are some differences. BOS is not SEA in the sense that DL isn't intending to turn it into an international hub with feeder domestic flights. I think that Delta's perspective on BOS is that it's a relatively large and wealthy market that wasn't already a hub for another major legacy airline and it sees opportunities to compliment it's traditional, larger hubs with a moderately sized O&D focused operation.
commavia wrote:tlecam wrote:I agree with this, although I also think that there are some differences. BOS is not SEA in the sense that DL isn't intending to turn it into an international hub with feeder domestic flights. I think that Delta's perspective on BOS is that it's a relatively large and wealthy market that wasn't already a hub for another major legacy airline and it sees opportunities to compliment it's traditional, larger hubs with a moderately sized O&D focused operation.
Agreed, although, as I said in the BOS thread - I find Delta's overall approach to its hub structure and domestic network, and by extension markets like BOS, intriguing because of how radically different it appears to be compared with AA and United. Whereas those two carriers seem to be almost singularly focused on bulking up the megahubs they already have, Delta seems far more interested in adventures in new hubs, focus cities and gateways - like LAX, SEA, RDU and BOS.
Delta's single largest hub (ATL, obviously) comprises a higher percentage of Delta's overall system capacity than either AA's (DFW) or United's (ORD), but the disparity in this metric also seems to be generally larger between ATL and Delta's other hubs as compared to DFW vs AA's other hubs and ORD and United's other hubs. And with Delta messaging to Wall St and analysts that it's domestic system capacity will be experiencing only minimal growth overall, what that effectively means in practice is that significant growth in one place - be it SEA, LAX, BOS or RDU - has to, often, be funded by cuts elsewhere, and in particular at other hubs (except, of course, ATL). My perception from following the general trends if not all of the details - could be wrong - is that the growth at JFK/LGA and the early phases of the buildups at SEA and LAX were funded to a large extent with CVG and MEM cuts, and now BOS, RDU and the later phases of SEA and LAX are being funded with cuts (relatively far smaller, obviously) at DTW and MSP.
Delta's strategy is interesting for multiple reasons - first and foremost because SEA, LAX and BOS all have intense competition from lower-cost operators (Alaska, Southwest and JetBlue), and also - again - because of how it seems to differ so starkly from what AA and United appear to be doing. As said elsewhere - will be fascinating to watch.
jb1087xna wrote:Thanks as always
adamh8297 wrote:Thanks enilria!
The Caribbean additions appear to be result of daily service for the Holidays from 12/21 to 1/5. PUJ and MBJ will not have service on 12/25.klm617 wrote:*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
Its horrible that an airline would correctly serve a market that is three times larger than another one.
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:BUFJACK10 wrote:All the G4 changes are cuts. Is this something seasonally normal for them? Due to MD80 retirements? Maintenance? Seems expensive to have so much hardware sitting around not generating revenue, especially that have brand new frames on order.
Thanks
Within the context of these otherwise very insightful OAG updates, they're meaningless.
(Thanks as always, Enilria.)
enilria wrote:Response to AS adding PDX-JFK?*DL JFK-PDX OCT 1.0>1.7 NOV 1.0>1.7
jb1087xna wrote:Thanks as always enilria!enilria wrote:G4 LIT-SFB AUG 0.5>0.1
G4 SFB-XNA AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.6>0.3 OCT 0.5>0.3 NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.6>0.3
I personally couldn't imagine going in August or September, but I feel like these cuts are a little close for any families wanting to plan an end of summer vacation to Orlando/Disney.
(I realize many more airports are affected besides LIT and XNA, those are just the two I follow the closest.)
klm617 wrote:Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
WaywardMemphian wrote:jb1087xna wrote:Thanks as always enilria!enilria wrote:G4 LIT-SFB AUG 0.5>0.1
G4 SFB-XNA AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.6>0.3 OCT 0.5>0.3 NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.6>0.3
I personally couldn't imagine going in August or September, but I feel like these cuts are a little close for any families wanting to plan an end of summer vacation to Orlando/Disney.
(I realize many more airports are affected besides LIT and XNA, those are just the two I follow the closest.)
NWA schools all start in in mid Aug these days instead of last week. Couple that with many elementary schools (particularly Fayetteville) that operate of a continuous calendar, summer break is over first week of August. That's the bread and butter of the "Disney" traveler. Allegiant has learned that the first week of Feb is a "early" spring break for these schools and I've notice prices have "adjusted" the past two years for that.
iyerhari wrote:*DL BOS-AUS OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-BNA SEP 0.7>1.4 OCT 0.7>1.7 NOV 0.8>1.8
*DL BOS-BUF SEP 0>1.9 OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
DL BOS-MBJ DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-MCI OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-MCO OCT 2>3
*DL BOS-NAS DEC 0.1>0.3
*DL BOS-ORF OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.9
DL BOS-PUJ DEC 0.1>0.3
DL LAX-BOS DEC 1.3>3
Wow - BOS expansion. DL is dead serious on being the legacy carrier of choice in BOS and not allowing either B6 or Southwest to takeover any route. AUS, MCI was surprising. Hopefully DL brings in ORD, DCA, SDF and PHLThank u enilria as always.
TransGlobalGold wrote:dfwking wrote:Alsatian wrote:AUS 630 - 1220 BOS 319
BOS 1930 - 2310 AUS 319
A late evening departure from Boston will not capture Boston-originating business traffic. The schedule suggests that DL is playing for Austin-originating business traffic. WN and B6 have sub-par schedules to serve that segment. This seems like a smart move on the part of DL.
Question is, will we see a B6 or other airline response to maintain share on these routes? Does B6 have the planes to increase frequency on overlapping routes? Do they have the appetite to endure RASM declines/losses on these routes?
I'm not sure 19:30 can be described as late evening. Seems to me like the hours posted would work well for business travellers. There aren't many alternative to get pax into BOS earlier unless you want a departure from AUS around 03:00. This should work I think.
ANA787 wrote:DL continues to grow its PDX footprint. PDX-CDG next anyone? Or PDX-BOS?
klm617 wrote:*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
klm617 wrote:*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
flyguy89 wrote:klm617 wrote:*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.
Speaks volumes of what exactly? I suppose that everyone at the WCAA should also add this to the reasons they should all resign in shame.
Longhornmaniac wrote:TransGlobalGold wrote:dfwking wrote:
A late evening departure from Boston will not capture Boston-originating business traffic. The schedule suggests that DL is playing for Austin-originating business traffic. WN and B6 have sub-par schedules to serve that segment. This seems like a smart move on the part of DL.
Question is, will we see a B6 or other airline response to maintain share on these routes? Does B6 have the planes to increase frequency on overlapping routes? Do they have the appetite to endure RASM declines/losses on these routes?
I'm not sure 19:30 can be described as late evening. Seems to me like the hours posted would work well for business travellers. There aren't many alternative to get pax into BOS earlier unless you want a departure from AUS around 03:00. This should work I think.
The point is that these times aren't meant to capture people that live and work in Boston and would travel to Austin, but the other way around. The times are perfect for someone needing to go from Austin to Boston for a week. Leave Monday AM, return Friday PM.
But if you're traveling Boston to Austin, you have to leave either Sunday night or Monday night, either sacrificing part of your weekend or missing a full business day, and then having to return first thing Friday morning. It reduces the business hours you're away by 40% on a Monday-Friday trip.
clrd4t8koff wrote:Longhornmaniac wrote:TransGlobalGold wrote:
I'm not sure 19:30 can be described as late evening. Seems to me like the hours posted would work well for business travellers. There aren't many alternative to get pax into BOS earlier unless you want a departure from AUS around 03:00. This should work I think.
The point is that these times aren't meant to capture people that live and work in Boston and would travel to Austin, but the other way around. The times are perfect for someone needing to go from Austin to Boston for a week. Leave Monday AM, return Friday PM.
But if you're traveling Boston to Austin, you have to leave either Sunday night or Monday night, either sacrificing part of your weekend or missing a full business day, and then having to return first thing Friday morning. It reduces the business hours you're away by 40% on a Monday-Friday trip.
Leaving at 7:30pm on a Sunday night is hardly losing a part of anyone's weekend. I know lots of business people that fly out on Sunday nights to work Monday morning vs. getting up at 3:30-4am for a 6am flight to get in and have a full day.
Longhornmaniac wrote:TransGlobalGold wrote:dfwking wrote:
A late evening departure from Boston will not capture Boston-originating business traffic. The schedule suggests that DL is playing for Austin-originating business traffic. WN and B6 have sub-par schedules to serve that segment. This seems like a smart move on the part of DL.
Question is, will we see a B6 or other airline response to maintain share on these routes? Does B6 have the planes to increase frequency on overlapping routes? Do they have the appetite to endure RASM declines/losses on these routes?
I'm not sure 19:30 can be described as late evening. Seems to me like the hours posted would work well for business travellers. There aren't many alternative to get pax into BOS earlier unless you want a departure from AUS around 03:00. This should work I think.
The point is that these times aren't meant to capture people that live and work in Boston and would travel to Austin, but the other way around. The times are perfect for someone needing to go from Austin to Boston for a week. Leave Monday AM, return Friday PM.
But if you're traveling Boston to Austin, you have to leave either Sunday night or Monday night, either sacrificing part of your weekend or missing a full business day, and then having to return first thing Friday morning. It reduces the business hours you're away by 40% on a Monday-Friday trip.
klm617 wrote:
Your perception is correct my fear is that will put an end to international expansion at Detroit in favor of Boston as we seen with the MAN and DUB adds from BOS.