Luisvalero
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IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:07 pm

IB has launched MAD-PVG and MAD-NRT, which have been working succesfully, with load factors up to 85%. I'm wondering if we can see any further expansion in to Asia.
I can see working BEY (A320) IKA, DEL/BOM, BKK, SIN, PEK or ICN with it's A330-200. What do you think?
 
PanzerPowner
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:11 pm

What about MNL?
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
anshabhi
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:15 pm

AI's DEL-MAD is not profitable, with 3/week B788
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:38 pm

Hong Kong?
 
dcajet
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:45 pm

HKG already taken care of (CX), Korean does INC so the only left with potential is PEK, although CA already covers it.

MNL would be a recipe to lose money. Extremely low yielding, and little demand. Spain's ties with the Philippines are not what they were in the past. The ME3 can take care of what little traffic there is, same as with the rest of Asian cities not presently served from MAD.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Cointrin330
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:49 pm

MNL is a low yield, VFR market and as stated above, ties between Spain and the Philippines aren't what they were in the past.

I don't see IB adding much more in Asia. It really does not need to.
 
Luisvalero
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:54 pm

dcajet wrote:
MNL would be a recipe to lose money. Extremely low yielding, and little demand. Spain's ties with the Philippines are not what they were in the past. The ME3 can take care of what little traffic there is, same as with the rest of Asian cities not presently served from MAD.


Yes that's true. Philippines Airlines, stated not long ago, that BCN was on their wish list, with FCO, CDG & AMS.

http://www.cerodosbe.com


I think there's more demand for BCN-MNL. MAD-MNL is absolutely taken by ME3 and CX
 
dcajet
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:27 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
dcajet wrote:
MNL would be a recipe to lose money. Extremely low yielding, and little demand. Spain's ties with the Philippines are not what they were in the past. The ME3 can take care of what little traffic there is, same as with the rest of Asian cities not presently served from MAD.


Yes that's true. Philippines Airlines, stated not long ago, that BCN was on their wish list, with FCO, CDG & AMS.

http://www.cerodosbe.com


I think there's more demand for BCN-MNL. MAD-MNL is absolutely taken by ME3 and CX


You need to remember that PAL has a completely different cost structure than Iberia's. PAL makes a living out of shuttling Filipinos expat workers to/from their overseas jobs and (not sure) making a profit doing so. That is not Iberia's business/target market.
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SCQ83
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:29 pm

PEK should be IB's next destination.
 
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thekorean
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:40 pm

IB has no feed at ICN and since KE serves Barcelona and Madrid, or will, I think that market is served enough.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:44 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
IB has launched MAD-PVG and MAD-NRT, which have been working succesfully, with load factors up to 85%. I'm wondering if we can see any further expansion in to Asia.
I can see working BEY (A320) IKA, DEL/BOM, BKK, SIN, PEK or ICN with it's A330-200. What do you think?


Beirut, Tehran, Mumbai were all former IB routes, as well as Jeddah, Kuwait, Amman, Damascus not sure if they served anywhere else in Asia, maybe Dubai or Abu Dhabi and Manila?
 
avi8
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:54 pm

I would say making their current destinations in Asia daily would come first.
avi8
 
nadavatar64
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:06 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
IB has launched MAD-PVG and MAD-NRT, which have been working succesfully, with load factors up to 85%. I'm wondering if we can see any further expansion in to Asia.
I can see working BEY (A320) IKA, DEL/BOM, BKK, SIN, PEK or ICN with it's A330-200. What do you think?


Beirut, Tehran, Mumbai were all former IB routes, as well as Jeddah, Kuwait, Amman, Damascus not sure if they served anywhere else in Asia, maybe Dubai or Abu Dhabi and Manila?


Damascus? Seriously?
Anyhow, BEY I think has a descent chance to work, not sure about IKA though. I think the other routes you have stated are already covered by the ME3 and Saudia. I think PEK would be a logical addition, later followed by PEK.
 
dcajet
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:11 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
IB has launched MAD-PVG and MAD-NRT, which have been working succesfully, with load factors up to 85%. I'm wondering if we can see any further expansion in to Asia.
I can see working BEY (A320) IKA, DEL/BOM, BKK, SIN, PEK or ICN with it's A330-200. What do you think?


Beirut, Tehran, Mumbai were all former IB routes, as well as Jeddah, Kuwait, Amman, Damascus not sure if they served anywhere else in Asia, maybe Dubai or Abu Dhabi and Manila?


I am happy to be proved wrong, but when did Iberia serve Mumbai, Tehran and Kuwait? Or Manila, Dubai or Abu Dhabi? Are you sure?

AFAIK, IB's only foray into Far East was in the 80s with a MAD-SVO-NRT, for which they ordered a 747-256B Combi, EC-EEK. Route only lasted a decade or so.
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MD80
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:05 pm

IIRC, Iberia served BOM, KWI, THR, AUH either in the 1970s and/or 1980s.
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SCQ83
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:17 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
Damascus? Seriously?
Anyhow, BEY I think has a descent chance to work, not sure about IKA though. I think the other routes you have stated are already covered by the ME3 and Saudia. I think PEK would be a logical addition, later followed by PEK.


BEY was to be launched in 2006 but cancelled with the war.

BEY could work but on the other hand Iberia is usually very conservative with "risky" destinations. Also compared to 2006, BEY is now way better connected to the Americas with Turkish and the ME3 (at least flying BEY-ME3-Brazil is not that out of the way) which are probably happy to sell rock bottom fares, specially in 2017.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:59 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
IB has launched MAD-PVG and MAD-NRT, which have been working succesfully, with load factors up to 85%. I'm wondering if we can see any further expansion in to Asia.
I can see working BEY (A320) IKA, DEL/BOM, BKK, SIN, PEK or ICN with it's A330-200. What do you think?


Beirut, Tehran, Mumbai were all former IB routes, as well as Jeddah, Kuwait, Amman, Damascus not sure if they served anywhere else in Asia, maybe Dubai or Abu Dhabi and Manila?


Damascus? Seriously?
.


Damascus launched with A319 in latter 2000s, probably seasonal.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:01 pm

MD80 wrote:
IIRC, Iberia served BOM, KWI, THR, AUH either in the 1970s and/or 1980s.


Correct.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:03 pm

dcajet wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
IB has launched MAD-PVG and MAD-NRT, which have been working succesfully, with load factors up to 85%. I'm wondering if we can see any further expansion in to Asia.
I can see working BEY (A320) IKA, DEL/BOM, BKK, SIN, PEK or ICN with it's A330-200. What do you think?


Beirut, Tehran, Mumbai were all former IB routes, as well as Jeddah, Kuwait, Amman, Damascus not sure if they served anywhere else in Asia, maybe Dubai or Abu Dhabi and Manila?


I am happy to be proved wrong, but when did Iberia serve Mumbai, Tehran and Kuwait? Or Manila, Dubai or Abu Dhabi? Are you sure?

AFAIK, IB's only foray into Far East was in the 80s with a MAD-SVO-NRT, for which they ordered a 747-256B Combi, EC-EEK. Route only lasted a decade or so.


Amswered above, not sure about Dubai and Manila

Tokyo was originally routed via Mumbai in early 1980s.
 
Luisvalero
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:12 pm

What about DOH? Iberia stated that they were going to launch it

http://www.larioja.com/economia/201508/ ... 721-v.html

(Link in Spanish, in 2015, saying that possible new routes could be NRT, JNB, DOH, & BSB)
 
Luisvalero
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:15 pm

anshabhi wrote:
AI's DEL-MAD is not profitable, with 3/week B788


I don't know were did you get that information. I've heard that is doing very well, and AI is evaluating to raise the frequencies to 5 per week
 
nadavatar64
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:39 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:

Beirut, Tehran, Mumbai were all former IB routes, as well as Jeddah, Kuwait, Amman, Damascus not sure if they served anywhere else in Asia, maybe Dubai or Abu Dhabi and Manila?


Damascus? Seriously?
.


Damascus launched with A319 in latter 2000s, probably seasonal.


OK, but you have to remember that in the 2000s there was no civil war in Syria. IIRC, European airlines are forbidden to fly over there (correct me if I am wrong).
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:42 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
Damascus? Seriously?
Anyhow, BEY I think has a descent chance to work, not sure about IKA though. I think the other routes you have stated are already covered by the ME3 and Saudia. I think PEK would be a logical addition, later followed by PEK.


BEY was to be launched in 2006 but cancelled with the war.

BEY could work but on the other hand Iberia is usually very conservative with "risky" destinations. Also compared to 2006, BEY is now way better connected to the Americas with Turkish and the ME3 (at least flying BEY-ME3-Brazil is not that out of the way) which are probably happy to sell rock bottom fares, specially in 2017.


Are you saying IB never served Beirut? they flew there for quite a while.
 
vv701
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:35 pm

There are four Asian destinations served by IB as detailed in the April 1995 edition of the 'ABC World Airline Guide'. Three of these are in the Middle East:

AMM (IB106) (Twice weekly)
KWI (IB168) (Once weekly)
NRT (IB6711) (Thrice weekly)
TLV (IB3790 and IB3796) (Six weekly)

I did not check BCN in the expectation that would not add other Asian destinations
 
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albertocsc
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Re: IB in Asia

Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:39 pm

I'm coming back in 4h from PVG with IB and the service was quite good on the first flight. Just meals were too poor.

I guess IKA will be done by Iran Air in a near future, and SIN and BKK will have to wait. All other destinations are already served or they wre (BEY).

Regarding MNL, I would love to see it as a destination in MAD, but I guess Iberia will never fly it. Maybe PAL or some low-cost like Norwegian or maybe, if they get A340s/A350s/B777s/... Cebu Pacific or Level.
 
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albertocsc
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:05 am

Adding information to my previous post, main unserved destinations from MAD in Asia, according to anna.aero are:

Wenzhou, Taipei, Guangzhou and Manila.
I don't see Iberia flying any of these routes soon, but I hope someone does.
 
dcajet
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:18 am

Wenzhou? Tell anna.aero to try her luck somewhere else!
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
smi0006
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:28 am

I think SIN would be a great port for feed into south east Asia. Prior to the agreement with EK would have also had feed from QF from across AU. SIN is a big financial hub, but not confident the market is there from Spain. Perhaps in 5years? Otherwise DOH, and HKG? Both having large one would feed, although both CX, and QR have that locked up. And that's all I could foresee in the next 5-10years.
 
Luisvalero
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:37 am

dcajet wrote:
Wenzhou? Tell anna.aero to try her luck somewhere else!


Wenzhou is the City in China where 70% of chinese people living in spain come from. In Spain there are 160.000 chinese citizens living, so 70% is more or less 112.000 chinese which have arrived from Wenzhou, Zhejiang. This Also happens in Italy, where most of the chinese people living in Italy come from Zhejiang. China Eastern has a direct flight between FCO and Wenzhou. I can see China Eastern flying as well to Mad from Wenzhou. Even Though most of the chinese people in Spain come from Wenzhou, the International gateway of Zhejiang province is Hangzhou. Beijing Capital Airlines flies MAD-CTU-HGH, which caters chinese population flying between MAD and Wenzhou.
 
Softaero
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:35 am

SCQ83 wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
Damascus? Seriously?
Anyhow, BEY I think has a descent chance to work, not sure about IKA though. I think the other routes you have stated are already covered by the ME3 and Saudia. I think PEK would be a logical addition, later followed by PEK.


BEY was to be launched in 2006 but cancelled with the war.

BEY could work but on the other hand Iberia is usually very conservative with "risky" destinations. Also compared to 2006, BEY is now way better connected to the Americas with Turkish and the ME3 (at least flying BEY-ME3-Brazil is not that out of the way) which are probably happy to sell rock bottom fares, specially in 2017.

Is BEY any riskier than, say, CCS?
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly
 
dcajet
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:52 am

Luisvalero wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Wenzhou? Tell anna.aero to try her luck somewhere else!


Wenzhou is the City in China where 70% of chinese people living in spain come from. In Spain there are 160.000 chinese citizens living, so 70% is more or less 112.000 chinese which have arrived from Wenzhou, Zhejiang. This Also happens in Italy, where most of the chinese people living in Italy come from Zhejiang. China Eastern has a direct flight between FCO and Wenzhou. I can see China Eastern flying as well to Mad from Wenzhou. Even Though most of the chinese people in Spain come from Wenzhou, the International gateway of Zhejiang province is Hangzhou. Beijing Capital Airlines flies MAD-CTU-HGH, which caters chinese population flying between MAD and Wenzhou.


Same scenario as with PAL and Manila. Chinese airlines can make these flights possible where the European airlines can't. No way we will see Iberia on any of those routes. Look, I live in SF and United has flights to both HGH and CTU. Even here in California, where we have WAY more traffic to China than anywhere in Spain or any other Euro destination, exception made of perhaps London, those flights are a mixed bag,

Out of curiosity I just checked fares from CTU and HGH to MAD on the Beijing Capital Airlines website. Fares are a joke. Y R/T starts at CY880, which equals US$130. C R/T starts at CY8800, US$1230. How can they make money with those fares, it is beyond me.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:00 am

Softaero wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
Damascus? Seriously?
Anyhow, BEY I think has a descent chance to work, not sure about IKA though. I think the other routes you have stated are already covered by the ME3 and Saudia. I think PEK would be a logical addition, later followed by PEK.


BEY was to be launched in 2006 but cancelled with the war.

BEY could work but on the other hand Iberia is usually very conservative with "risky" destinations. Also compared to 2006, BEY is now way better connected to the Americas with Turkish and the ME3 (at least flying BEY-ME3-Brazil is not that out of the way) which are probably happy to sell rock bottom fares, specially in 2017.

Is BEY any riskier than, say, CCS?



I think he meant in terms of profits not security
on the other hand vueling does fly to BEY ( SEASONAL ) from bcn it has a very bad schedule that never actually took it 4 am departure and it's always overpriced so i am guessing its doing good
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:37 am

vv701 wrote:
There are four Asian destinations served by IB as detailed in the April 1995 edition of the 'ABC World Airline Guide'. Three of these are in the Middle East:

AMM (IB106) (Twice weekly)
KWI (IB168) (Once weekly)
NRT (IB6711) (Thrice weekly)
TLV (IB3790 and IB3796) (Six weekly)

I did not check BCN in the expectation that would not add other Asian destinations


In 1987 they were doing Tel Aviv, Jeddah, Mumbai and Tokyo http://airline-memorabilia.blogspot.com ... ifras.html
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:59 am

Softaero wrote:
Is BEY any riskier than, say, CCS?


Was looking up some old IB maps to verify Beirut flights, they served it throughout civil war 1970s and 1980s, last map being from 1989.

Tehran was also served during initial revolution years 1979 to 1981.

Damascus was started in summer 2010 as seasonal route, trouble began that year.

Interestingly they had stopped serving Tel Aviv sometime in 1970s to early or mid 1980s.
 
SCQ83
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:12 am

OGLOBAL wrote:
I think he meant in terms of profits not security


I mean in terms of country risk:

- CAI was cancelled due to situation in Egypt.
- IST was cancelled due to situation in Turkey.
- DAM was cancelled... nothing else to say!
- BEY was cancelled before starting due to the 2006 war.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:18 am

SCQ83 wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
I think he meant in terms of profits not security


I mean in terms of country risk:

- CAI was cancelled due to situation in Egypt.
- IST was cancelled due to situation in Turkey.
- DAM was cancelled... nothing else to say!
- BEY was cancelled before starting due to the 2006 war.


Why dont you refer to BEY as a relaunch? and it was started viewtopic.php?t=320543
Last edited by CanadaFair on Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Luisvalero
Topic Author
Posts: 206
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:20 am

CanadaFair wrote:
Softaero wrote:
Is BEY any riskier than, say, CCS?


Was looking up some old IB maps to verify Beirut flights, they served it throughout civil war 1970s and 1980s, last map being from 1989.

Tehran was also served during initial revolution years 1979 to 1981.

Damascus was started in summer 2010 as seasonal route, trouble began that year.

Interestingly they had stopped serving Tel Aviv sometime in 1970s to early or mid 1980s.


Yes, I remember my father taking MAD-THR, but I'm not sure if the flight was direct. My father used to take that flight a lot, and he remembers that it was full of iranians leaving the country mainly to US (MIA, JFK, LAX etc)
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:23 am

Routemap shows it was Madrid-Barcelona-Tehran.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: IB in Asia

Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:57 pm

I know there's already service but ICN-MAD traffic is generally very high yielding as they are two of the biggest centers in the world for major Engineering companies. I have no data but my gut would say there's capacity for more.
 
hisham
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Re: IB in Asia

Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:30 pm

I'm pretty sure Iberia did not serve BEY during the majority of the war. No Western airline did. Nor Arab airlines either. The only airlines that did were Eastern Bloc one. The most consistent being Aeroflot, CSA, Malev and Bulgarian.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: IB in Asia

Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:18 pm

I thought they were being tardy not removing BEY from maps, but they removed TLV from it for some years, so they were particular about updating them.
 
taichen
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 7:33 pm

Re: IB in Asia

Wed May 24, 2017 10:18 am

I remember that some of these destinations apparead on IB advertising materials (maps, etc) but were not flown by Iberia itself. Beirut was mostly a MEA codeshare, yet still appeared on maps. This was a time when IB codeshared with almost any foreign carrier that flew to Madrid so I never knew why some destinations in the 80's - 90's appeared on maps while others, such as Eastern European cities, did not. IIRC Beirut was a very short lived A319 operation in the early-mids 2000's, as someone said. Anyhow, do check https://airline-memorabilia.blogspot.co ... bel/Iberia for more Iberia timetables and routemaps.
 
c933103
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Re: IB in Asia

Wed May 24, 2017 10:39 am

MAD-MNL seems to be almost as faraway as MNL-LAX... Can that be done by 332?
The message in signature have been removed according to demand.
 
migair54
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Re: IB in Asia

Wed May 24, 2017 11:35 am

I am not sure if I will expand in Asia much in the near future but as stated above the obvious candidate is PEK, even if CA operates the route I think IB could make it work, I don't think the same about SIN and for sure not MNL, BKK is a difficult market with too many competition already in place.
Another could be Dubai, I has a good network to some places where EK or EY can't reach, so they could get some traffic, if it's enough or not, that's the difficult question.
I am not sure about RUH or JED, but maybe some weekly freqs even if they do initially with the A319.
 
Crispi
Posts: 10
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Re: IB in Asia

Wed May 24, 2017 2:28 pm

Hi

I think that more than expanding destinations in Asia, what Iberia is going to do is consolidate the ones already has and expand them to a daily flight. Especially NRT.
Crispi

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