lowfareair
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:26 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
I still fail to see exactly why B6 needs a focus city in the Midwest or West Coast. It's just not a natural fit when one considers B6's core strengths (LatAm, NYC, Boston, FLL). And that's ok.


I think it is less finding a natural fit and more finding a place for B6 to grow. When you stop growing, your labor force starts aging up, which increases average labor costs per ASM as the same number of people are making more with little fresh blood to lower the average down.

AUS seems like it could work as a central focus city - no major hubs in the city, relatively small ULCC presence, large and growing business segment plus relatively strong leisure travel to the city, nice gateway to Latin America from Mountain/West, and the city seems to match JetBlue's target demographic fairly well. Add in the 9 new gates coming online in 18-24 months, and it seems like there is space to grow.

I definitely see B6 and AS eventually growing closer, acknowledging that they need each other in many ways. Code share on non-overlapping routes and eventual merger (think 6- years, maybe more) is not far-fetched.

Agreed
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:34 am

If AS+B6 is a fait accompli, they both might as well just skip the whole opposite-coast focus-city focus and build up their respective networks. It'll be less messy when the inevitable merger is finally proposed.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3278
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:39 am

Some interesting tidbits from the conference call:

1. E190 leases are up in 2023. Taking a "hard look" at what the fleet should look like after. High frequency and high margin Boston markets are specifically cited as being key drivers.
2. JFK-LAX/SFO Mint RASM increased 10% YOY in March, 6% Q1
3. Tactical approach to each Mint market to separate business from high end leisure traffic
4. FLL-LAX Mint initial reception mirrors BOS
5. BOS-LGA exceeding expectations, recently increased close-in fares
6. Initial ATL demand is very strong
7. Reduced EWR-Florida capacity producing positive RASM improvement
8. Strong emphasis on keeping ex-fuel costs down; 0-1% inflation expected 2018-2020
9. Q1 ex-fuel cost increase was 3.3% versus 3-5% estimate range, which did not budget for 2 major weather events
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:52 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
If AS+B6 is a fait accompli, they both might as well just skip the whole opposite-coast focus-city focus and build up their respective networks. It'll be less messy when the inevitable merger is finally proposed.



I say bring it on, the sooner the better.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:55 am

flyby519 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
lowfareair wrote:

Why are the first airports obviously out more than LAS? LAS is home to large focus cities/small hubs to 4 LCCs/ULCCs that will depress yields, on top of being a very leisure destination in the first place. Some of the above may have some space issues, but LAS seems like one of the least likely in your list. So why are the others obviously out while LAS is a strong option?

As you alluded to, B6 still has practically all of middle America to start flying to. If they figure out how to make the Ejets work or dump then for C series, I could see any of MCI, AUS, IND, CVG, STL, CMH, MEM, etc working for them as a small hub while providing a healthy amount of O&D.


SFO has no gates and is extremely congested and is delay prone
LAX has no gates and is extremely congested
SNA has no slots, gates, curfew
LGB has no slots, gates, curfew
DEN has UA and WN major hubs with some F9 in there with depressed yields
SLC has no gates
PHX currently has limited gates

As far as LAS goes, G4 doesn't pose any threat at all. B6 isn't going after that type of traffic and business travelers don't use NK or G4. The only real hub competition would be from WN and it seems that they're in the process of trying to improve intra-cali and north-South west coast flying to compete against AS, as well as trying to make DEN more O&D instead of 87% connecting. F9, G4 and NK are no threat to a B6 LAS hub.

I think AUS is too far south to be a hub. The rest would be okay, although I don't think STL has the gates at the moment.


Just because it is the only option left doesn't mean it is a good option for B6.

I think they would have better luck bulking up their existing east coast bases with connecting the dots with existing bluecities. Also, adding small-midsized Midwest cities like MKE, MCI, STL, IND to the map. Maybe even take a lesson from Frontier and try some point-to-point Midwest flying. Yes, low yields, leisure, blah blah, but with the right plane (CSeries) I think they could make a profit.

Also, B6 needs to find a way to have a commercial relationship with AS. That's their best option to serve west coast pax.


It's not about whether they should or shouldn't. It's an idea. Nothing more, nothing less. They're limited at BOS and JFK. They want to grow revenue. FLL has its limits.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
winginit
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:01 am

For better or for worse, the success of modern corporations is measured by shareholder returns, and apart from B6's stock being up 3.31% today on these earnings, the stock is up 25% in the past six months and 370% in the past 5 years. Hardly 'bad' by any definition.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:28 am

CobaltScar wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
If AS+B6 is a fait accompli, they both might as well just skip the whole opposite-coast focus-city focus and build up their respective networks. It'll be less messy when the inevitable merger is finally proposed.



I say bring it on, the sooner the better.


I'm not. I'd like to see what they each do over the next five years.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:24 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
If AS+B6 is a fait accompli, they both might as well just skip the whole opposite-coast focus-city focus and build up their respective networks. It'll be less messy when the inevitable merger is finally proposed.



I say bring it on, the sooner the better.


I'm not. I'd like to see what they each do over the next five years.


Unless B6 merges with HA first, which seems a lot more likely to me. Or even F9.

Jetblue is doing fine, they've just had some tough moments recently. But things could very well change if interest rate goes up or fuel prices goes up or economy goes in the tanks.
 
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admanager
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:32 am

Two of the 20 largest cities in North America lie within 400 miles from New York City and are unserved by B6. I'll get flamed for suggesting this because "costs/taxes/fees are too high there"; but Toronto and Montreal represent low hanging fruit. B6 would face exactly the same costs/fees/taxes that every other carrier faces who operates out of those cities. Huge amounts of business traffic, and even more traffic to sunny destinations that B6 is already serving.
Sure, a big percentage of the traffic will be Canadian point of sale, but consider the transatlantic flights that many people are salivating over; the UK is also very high cost location and B6 is an unknown airline there, yet the general consensus is that will be when, not if.
It's about connecting the dots, and 11 million people an hour from Boston or New York City is an easy start.
 
Jshank83
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:49 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
The rest would be okay, although I don't think STL has the gates at the moment.


STL has tons of gates. Since it was a former TWA/AA hub it has plenty of gates not in use. WN has slowing been taking them over but I think they have something like 30 open gates left even after WN takes over 4 more this summer. The end of C concourse has 14 not in use at the moment, if they really wanted to come in there they could have those I am sure. Not that I can see them doing it but the option is there.

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/documents ... m_2017.pdf


I stand corrected. Thanks for that. I wonder if they could convince the airlines in C to shuffle around to allow B6 to move in to turn it into a hub?
It is definitely in a good spot to connect NE to SW and NW to SE.


The 14ish gates at the end of C would be plenty to set up some kind of hub. WN is running 100 flights a day on 13 gates. But if we are going to get crazy..... AA is pretty much set in stone in C, they aren't moving. You could move Frontier to A and AirChoiceOne/Cape Air to about anywhere. But C still connects to D. So really if JetBlue wanted to get big they could use up all those at the end of C then start taking D gates and working their way towards WN who is working its way from the other direction.

All that is fun to think about but I think absolute best case would be a some kind of focus city. Even that is probably a long shot. Fun to think about though.
 
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Schweigend
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:17 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
That leaves LAS and I believe they're actually sitting on a bunch of empty, unused gates in December, where G4 used to be. With a good schedule, and probably a great place to put the E90 fleet to SEA, PDX, BOI, SMF, SFO, OAK, SJC, SNA, LAX, BUR, ONTARIO, SAN, et al, they can connect them onto A321 or A320 to the east. Flying MSP-SEA would probably still be better connecting over DEN or SLC if you have to connect, but they would still have excellent traffic flow from FLL, TPA, MCO, ATL, MAY, DFW, IAH, SAT, AUS, and from the NE....


I'm not really suggesting that B6 could not succeed with a LAS hub -- as you say, it seems to be the only viable one left in the U.S. western region. Because of LAS's popularity as a destination from just about anywhere, a B6 hub could be mounted there, focusing on O&D and connections, however --

Looking back at America West (HP) history, they had a secondary hub at LAS, supplementing their primary PHX base. Around 2005-6, if I remember correctly, it was shut down when they were merging with USAirways. Neither US then nor AA today have tried to attempt it again....

And now we have WN, who must serve 30-40 destinations from LAS -- not sure if they use it as a connecting hub like DEN. Still, B6's product could possibly trump WN's. It would be a tough road for JetBlue to make it work, but they just might!

As Jshank83 suggested, STL could make a great mid-continent hub, but WN is big there too.

With their complementary East Coast / West Coast operations, I do wonder if B6 and AS will eventually merge -- but I think that would come about 5-10 years from now at the earliest.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:02 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
Just because it is the only option left doesn't mean it is a good option for B6.

I think they would have better luck bulking up their existing east coast bases with connecting the dots with existing bluecities. Also, adding small-midsized Midwest cities like MKE, MCI, STL, IND to the map. Maybe even take a lesson from Frontier and try some point-to-point Midwest flying. Yes, low yields, leisure, blah blah, but with the right plane (CSeries) I think they could make a profit.

Also, B6 needs to find a way to have a commercial relationship with AS. That's their best option to serve west coast pax.


:checkmark:

I still fail to see exactly why B6 needs a focus city in the Midwest or West Coast. It's just not a natural fit when one considers B6's core strengths (LatAm, NYC, Boston, FLL). And that's ok...AS has been in business for decades and is the mirror image of B6, but on the opposite coast (obviously with some caveats). Let's also not forget that WN long stayed away from the East Coast. Obviously times have changed, but history doesn't suggest that B6 needs a Midwest or West Coast focus city.

Obviously B6 is very concentrated in the DC-BOS corridor, which presents weather event risk and the normal ATC issues. The growth in FLL and MCO should help alleviate some of these pressures, but it will still be difficult to diversify away fully.

I definitely see B6 and AS eventually growing closer, acknowledging that they need each other in many ways. Code share on non-overlapping routes and eventual merger (think 6- years, maybe more) is not far-fetched.


I'm not saying I disagree with you, but shouldn't you propose a solution, instead of just shooting down everyone else's ideas. And the point that was being made was that only a certain amount of cities in florida and Latin America can be served from BOS and JFK, therefore it would not be smart for B6 to box itself in. Plus, almost all of this aforementioned traffic is O&D, because JFK and BOS are not good locations for connecting unless you are flying TATL. Either PIT, CLE, MKE, and CMH seem to be the best midwest options for focus cities, as they are the only ones that aren't saturated with WN. Since you brought up AS, AS realized recently what B6 will learn in about 2-5 years. AS realized that in terms of the companies future, it would be ill-advised to box-itself in as solely a Pacific NW airline, and now they have routes to all the major midwest/east cities, a mid-american focus city, and various hubs all over the west coast. B6 should take note of AS, and expand into more markets before even a midwest/west coast hub/focus city becomes feasible. Finally, this hardline stance that B6 shouldn't expand out of BOS/FLL/MCO/JFK is a bit odd considering all of those airports are hubs/focus cities for other larger airlines. Plus anytime someone suggests the idea of a focus city outside of those four airports, it is shot down for going against the "history" of the company. Personally, I think that it is okay to let go of some of your history in order to adapt to the market of the day. B6 is falling behind its competitors, it may not be visible to some people now, but with its mentality it will be evident in the coming years.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
jumbojet
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:27 pm

Schweigend wrote:
[
.

With their complementary East Coast / West Coast operations, I do wonder if B6 and AS will eventually merge -- but I think that would come about 5-10 years from now at the earliest.


The last thing the consumer needs is another airline merger. Ticket prices will go up, service will go down.

At any rate, hopefully there are no more big airline mergers. If by some chance B6 and AS tie the knot, I would imagine the name JetBlue will be the name to get 86'd.
 
gsg013
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:14 pm

As B6 has no presence in the south east or the west coast I think a good place for them to start would to evaluate creating a hub in Memphis.

Right before the DL/NW merger the MEM airport was built up to accommodate a full scale NW hub. The airport is still there albeit mostly empty but it could definitely be another easy entry point for B6 to build out another hub.

City is really growing over 2 million people in the local area with no hometown carrier anymore. It would allow them to build out a great hub to reach both the southeast and southwest including building up presence in Texas.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:30 pm

gsg013 wrote:
As B6 has no presence in the south east or the west coast I think a good place for them to start would to evaluate creating a hub in Memphis.

Right before the DL/NW merger the MEM airport was built up to accommodate a full scale NW hub. The airport is still there albeit mostly empty but it could definitely be another easy entry point for B6 to build out another hub.

City is really growing over 2 million people in the local area with no hometown carrier anymore. It would allow them to build out a great hub to reach both the southeast and southwest including building up presence in Texas.


Memphis is the poorest major metro area in America; B6 would be stupid to set a hub there. There is a reason (besides ATL) that DL pulled out. B6's brand is coastal and does not translate well to middle America...
 
gsg013
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:53 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
gsg013 wrote:

Memphis is the poorest major metro area in America; B6 would be stupid to set a hub there. There is a reason (besides ATL) that DL pulled out. B6's brand is coastal and does not translate well to middle America...



I am not entirely sure of this. While I know Memphis has many poverty stricken areas there is also a lot of wealth that the average person living on the coast does not see. I have family that lives in Memphis and they have decided to start flying Private, with the exception of going overseas, due to the lack of a local airline in Memphis. (I know this is not everyone in Memphis but there are so many upper middle class folks in the MEM Area) For everything else that fly DL through ATL.

I also am not saying set up MEM as a hub for O&D. It would be a great connection point for the rest of the south east/ South West region probably a better and more cost effective way of getting into the South East without going against DL's fortress in ATL where B6 has no connection options.
 
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Polot
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:01 pm

gsg013 wrote:
I also am not saying set up MEM as a hub for O&D. It would be a great connection point for the rest of the south east/ South West region probably a better and more cost effective way of getting into the South East without going against DL's fortress in ATL where B6 has no connection options.

Setting up MEM as a connecting hub for the South East is going against DL's fortress in ATL, along with AA's fortress in CLT.


I don't think Jetblue's fleet and business model would work well for such a venture. It would be a bloodbath that would not end well for JetBlue.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:08 pm

admanager wrote:
Two of the 20 largest cities in North America lie within 400 miles from New York City and are unserved by B6. I'll get flamed for suggesting this because "costs/taxes/fees are too high there"; but Toronto and Montreal represent low hanging fruit. B6 would face exactly the same costs/fees/taxes that every other carrier faces who operates out of those cities. Huge amounts of business traffic, and even more traffic to sunny destinations that B6 is already serving.


On business-dominated routes they would need frequency and the E190s are too big for that JFK/BOS-YYZ/YUL -- at least for a few years. I don't see how they build share for a few years without losing a ton of money.

As for Canadian leisure traffic, there are AC and WS non-stops to most relevant markets. Connections won't be popular unless fares are just trash. As for cities in sun destinations, I guess B6 could run YYZ/YUL-MCO/FLL/TPA/SJU. WRT strategy, B6 should beat (absolutely concrete-footed) Southwest to Canada.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:14 pm

gsg013 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
gsg013 wrote:

Memphis is the poorest major metro area in America; B6 would be stupid to set a hub there. There is a reason (besides ATL) that DL pulled out. B6's brand is coastal and does not translate well to middle America...



I am not entirely sure of this. While I know Memphis has many poverty stricken areas there is also a lot of wealth that the average person living on the coast does not see. I have family that lives in Memphis and they have decided to start flying Private, with the exception of going overseas, due to the lack of a local airline in Memphis. (I know this is not everyone in Memphis but there are so many upper middle class folks in the MEM Area) For everything else that fly DL through ATL.

I also am not saying set up MEM as a hub for O&D. It would be a great connection point for the rest of the south east/ South West region probably a better and more cost effective way of getting into the South East without going against DL's fortress in ATL where B6 has no connection options.


I am sorry, it actually is the 2nd poorest metro area in the US now. I think your family is more of an anomaly (and I have spent alot of time in Memphis)
http://archive.commercialappeal.com/new ... 96031.html

Having a hub that focuses almost solely on connections does not fit B6's business model and is most certainly not going to help solve B6's revenue problem. B6 does not have appropriate aircraft (in fact, if they dump the E190's they will be moving in the opposite direction) to serve the small and medium sized cities that it would need to make such a hub possibly work.
 
DaveFly
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:16 pm

For me, one of the great things about JetBlue, besides the generous legroom, is that they serve two additional NYC-area airports -- White Plains (HPN) and Newburgh/Stewart (SWF). Unfortunately, the latter two are served by E190s, which are great if you're a passenger, but could end these services if JetBlue eliminates the aircraft from its fleet. Sometimes I think that despite Delta and United's claim to being "New York's Hometown Airline," the title should go to JetBlue since they cover every airport except Islip/MacArthur.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
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Polot
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:21 pm

DaveFly wrote:
Sometimes I think that despite Delta and United's claim to being "New York's Hometown Airline," the title should go to JetBlue since they cover every airport except Islip/MacArthur.

Delta also serves HPN (as does UA) and SWF...
 
usflyer msp
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:22 pm

DaveFly wrote:
For me, one of the great things about JetBlue, besides the generous legroom, is that they serve two additional NYC-area airports -- White Plains (HPN) and Newburgh/Stewart (SWF). Unfortunately, the latter two are served by E190s, which are great if you're a passenger, but could end these services if JetBlue eliminates the aircraft from its fleet. Sometimes I think that despite Delta and United's claim to being "New York's Hometown Airline," the title should go to JetBlue since they cover every airport except Islip/MacArthur.


AA serves all 6...
 
DaveFly
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:25 pm

I should have said Mainline only, but I concede your point.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:17 pm

320s go to HPN and SWF too.

re: merger and the state of JetBlue,

How long should employees tolerate abysmal pay and work rules and how long should shareholders tolerate crappy returns in the name of low fares for the consumers and to a lesser extent job security to a very over bloated middle management? Especially since these consumers are showing themselves to chase the lowest fare they can find anyways.

If a merge can create economies of scale to compete with the already merged up "Big 4" and would leapfrog JetBlues workforce into superior contracts then BRING IT ON!

The postponement of aircraft deliveries has me very worried as that means a even slower slog towards becoming a large airline with real work rules, benefits, and pay. People need to open their eyes and see how the Virgin America's workers were absolutely hoodwinked and beguiled by crap like "oh we are a new airline, please suffer just a few more years and we promise you the promised land". Yeah right, all they did was allow that airline to remain barely afloat until the owners could sell. Virgin America employees should count their lucky stars that they did get bought and are moving towards industry standard pay and work rules.

Everyday a AirTran FA wakes up, they open their eyes and say "Thank the lord Southwest bought us".

Everyday a Virgin America FA wakes up they are saying "Thank Heaven Alaska bought us and we will soon be getting a near double increase in pay and Southwest style work rules" etc. etc.

I want the same for JetBlue. Please, SOMEONE buy them. American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, hell even Hawaiian has superior pay and work rules.

If the "public" wants low fares, book on spirit.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:20 pm

The absolute worse case scenario for JetBlue is to stop grown and remain a middling average airline.

Either continue breakneck growth in all directions, or SELL OUT.

I hope the board of directors see this and force managements hand (who has a very vested interest in keeping things as is, for their own well paying jobs).
 
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diverdave
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:53 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
6. Initial ATL demand is very strong


How can the demand in ATL be strong when B6 must endure the terrible, horrible, no good, really bad Concourse D gates? :stirthepot:

David
 
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nikeson13
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:16 pm

I'll admit there isn't much more places they can go, but what about MKE? They have been in a slump and got some room, they could do a couple flights from there. Same could go for SDF, IND, CVG. While it is somewhat a branch from their business model, unless they go transatlantic they really got no chance of expanding.
Nikolas
 
ridgid727
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:18 pm

For those who say LAS, B6 could always try the "Nite Flite" type operation that HP started then shut down. One major porblem for B6 though is still their 2 Upper North East hubs. They are always hit with weather in the Summer and Winter causing pretty much an entire system shut down. They do not have a place to re-direct traffic.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:21 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
320s go to HPN and SWF too.

re: merger and the state of JetBlue,

How long should employees tolerate abysmal pay and work rules and how long should shareholders tolerate crappy returns in the name of low fares for the consumers and to a lesser extent job security to a very over bloated middle management? Especially since these consumers are showing themselves to chase the lowest fare they can find anyways.

If a merge can create economies of scale to compete with the already merged up "Big 4" and would leapfrog JetBlues workforce into superior contracts then BRING IT ON!

The postponement of aircraft deliveries has me very worried as that means a even slower slog towards becoming a large airline with real work rules, benefits, and pay. People need to open their eyes and see how the Virgin America's workers were absolutely hoodwinked and beguiled by crap like "oh we are a new airline, please suffer just a few more years and we promise you the promised land". Yeah right, all they did was allow that airline to remain barely afloat until the owners could sell. Virgin America employees should count their lucky stars that they did get bought and are moving towards industry standard pay and work rules.

Everyday a AirTran FA wakes up, they open their eyes and say "Thank the lord Southwest bought us".

Everyday a Virgin America FA wakes up they are saying "Thank Heaven Alaska bought us and we will soon be getting a near double increase in pay and Southwest style work rules" etc. etc.

I want the same for JetBlue. Please, SOMEONE buy them. American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, hell even Hawaiian has superior pay and work rules.

If the "public" wants low fares, book on spirit.


Are you a troll? Please tell me you are.
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
MD82/MD83/MD88/MD90 Q100/Q400
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:32 am

B6 still has plenty of places for expansion. The issue from the recent investor call is that they have completely sold themselves out to the gospel of short term wall street profit taking anthem. Since they spooked the investors out in January in an otherwise solid Q4, they've been trying to be on amend by consistently talking of cost cutting and capacity discipline, when this is an airline with plenty of need to expand still.

So expansion areas:
- Continue connecting the dots out of BOS to get up to 200 flights a day
- Continue connecting the dots out of FLL to get up to 140 flights a day
- Starting in 2019, they can start using the A321LR for transatlantic flying. They can even looking into A330neo if they want to be bold. But to start off, London, Dublin and Paris are places they need to fly to in order to get corporate contract of the wall street types.
- Start adding more flights out of EWR to fully utilize those 4 gates now that they cut back on Florida. Start adding mint to LAX. Starting adding flights to leisure locations like LAS, MSY, PHX and the islands. All places UA is not that strong at. Plenty of New Yorkers and NJ folks would love to not fly UA to those locations!
- Start adding more flights out of MCO, which has not really expanded in the past year or so. Maybe they are waiting for the new terminal here.
- Add more flights out of IAD to florida.
- Their new gate situation in LAX does allow for some additional capacity, so keep adding more mint flights out of JFK/EWR, BOS, FLL and maybe even IAD.
- Since AS has moved in with VX at SFO, there should be more gate space out there for B6 to add flights to JFK/BOS/LAS.

That seems to me like a lot of additions they can make without a base in the middle of the country. They can get to 70 flights a day out of the LA area airports (35 at LGB, 25 to 30 at LAX, 3 at SNA and some at BUR) even with the constraints they have right now. That counts as somewhat of a west coast base.
 
Jetmarc
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:54 am

Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:22 am

Why not add a first class cabin? There is repeated talk of how well Mint is doing and exceeding expectations and excellent margins, then why not add first class to the rest of the fleet? Surely they would fill up on all these business routes and with some premium leisure travellers. Other than WN, B6 is the only carrier without it other than Mint routes. The legacy carriers have also added first class to smaller regional jets and even VX is expanding from 8 to 12 seats. And with aircraft soon to be taken out of service for reconfiguration, wouldn't this be the perfect time to add First too? I also wonder how many Mint customers connect thru JFK/BOS that would have paid for a premium cabin had it been offered on the connecting flight.
"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
 
QueenoftheSkies
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:48 am

Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:57 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
Just because it is the only option left doesn't mean it is a good option for B6.

I think they would have better luck bulking up their existing east coast bases with connecting the dots with existing bluecities. Also, adding small-midsized Midwest cities like MKE, MCI, STL, IND to the map. Maybe even take a lesson from Frontier and try some point-to-point Midwest flying. Yes, low yields, leisure, blah blah, but with the right plane (CSeries) I think they could make a profit.

Also, B6 needs to find a way to have a commercial relationship with AS. That's their best option to serve west coast pax.


:checkmark:

I still fail to see exactly why B6 needs a focus city in the Midwest or West Coast. It's just not a natural fit when one considers B6's core strengths (LatAm, NYC, Boston, FLL). And that's ok...AS has been in business for decades and is the mirror image of B6, but on the opposite coast (obviously with some caveats). Let's also not forget that WN long stayed away from the East Coast. Obviously times have changed, but history doesn't suggest that B6 needs a Midwest or West Coast focus city.

Obviously B6 is very concentrated in the DC-BOS corridor, which presents weather event risk and the normal ATC issues. The growth in FLL and MCO should help alleviate some of these pressures, but it will still be difficult to diversify away fully.

I definitely see B6 and AS eventually growing closer, acknowledging that they need each other in many ways. Code share on non-overlapping routes and eventual merger (think 6- years, maybe more) is not far-fetched.


There's only so much flying they can add to JFK, BOS, and FLL sooo what next? Starting ending routes to open new ones? They really could become "a thing" in SJC.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:24 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Are you a troll? Please tell me you are.



Go to the Airline Pilots Central forums and read the multiple 30 page JetBlue threads there saying the same things you consider "trolling" here. There is more to life and this industry than $59 dollar one ways that make no money and zero dividends paid out in 15 years.

If you like the product, then pay a fair price for it. Otherwise let it die/merge so others can find themselves in a better situation. As I said, there is still Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant for those that are inclined.

Bring these next round of mergers ON. The efficiency gained will trickle down to everyone, and yes even the passengers will be better off too. Fares have never been lower and this is after the big 4 mega mergers.
 
FlyUSAir
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:26 am

Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:33 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Are you a troll? Please tell me you are.



Go to the Airline Pilots Central forums and read the multiple 30 page JetBlue threads there saying the same things you consider "trolling" here. There is more to life and this industry than $59 dollar one ways that make no money and zero dividends paid out in 15 years.

If you like the product, then pay a fair price for it. Otherwise let it die/merge so others can find themselves in a better situation. As I said, there is still Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant for those that are inclined.

Bring these next round of mergers ON. The efficiency gained will trickle down to everyone, and yes even the passengers will be better off too. Fares have never been lower and this is after the big 4 mega mergers.


Look, I'm sorry you were fired from B6, but making slanderous claims such as these is ignorant, un-educated, and one-sided. Off to the foe list with you troll.
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
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User avatar
nikeson13
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:35 am

Re: JetBlue Bad Q1 Results

Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:09 pm

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
There's only so much flying they can add to JFK, BOS, and FLL sooo what next? Starting ending routes to open new ones? They really could become "a thing" in SJC.


I believe they could easily, but theyd have to do two key things:
1) fight off AS. AS+VX definitely wants to be major players in SJC and SFO, thus they probably would need a bit of a fight to take SJC.
2) SJC needs more room. They are making efforts right now, but they need more gates if B6 or even AS wants to have a big presence there.
Nikolas

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