Not long to wait now for the official launch details of the much-heralded nonstop PER-LHR flight.
Thurs 27 Apr for the maiden flight details.....rumour of a special fare too !

Im super excited, finally the desired nonstop flight between the UK and Australia comes to fruition! I wonder how many years will pass until a nonstop SYD-LHR

Think QF's Alan Joyce was mentioning 2022 for SYD-LHR, and SYD-JFK, n/s.

TC957 wrote:

Think QF's Alan Joyce was mentioning 2022 for SYD-LHR, and SYD-JFK, n/s.

The only aircraft in the pipeline that can possibly do SYD-LHR is the 778, unless the A359ULR can do it. Is Joyce signaling a possible 777X order?

It was the A359ULR that was being mentioned in his speech as I recall.

Schedule was published on the independent newspaper in the uk last weekend btw.

This is already being discussed at length in the Aussie Aviation thread, probably better to keep the discussion going over there until QF actually makes an announcements worth creating a new thread for...

n729pa wrote:

Schedule was published on the independent newspaper in the uk last weekend btw.

See the Aussie aviation thread. That schedule look "odd" to most of us and does not align well with known QF slot times. We shall see tomorrow!

Gemuser

nadavatar64 wrote:

Im super excited, finally the desired nonstop flight between the UK and Australia comes to fruition! I wonder how many years will pass until a nonstop SYD-LHR

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

Interesting to see this QF flight materialise direct to PER but I prefer a layover on my trips to Perth... I have travelled a few times over the years to PER visiting family with the ME3 airlines flying from MAN and always had great journeys with a short layover between flights, and that hour or two to stretch legs, freshen up, get a bite to eat etc... really does help... I personally wouldn't use the direct service as much happier flying locally from MAN than having to travel down to LHR...

It may be for some people to fly direct, but id sooner stick to using the ME3 (specifically QATAR)... guess we will see how the QF flights perform...

8herveg wrote:

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

I think it's fair to say that you would certainly have some business travellers who would prefer this flight particularly time sensitive ones. You are never going to come up with a product/flight schedule which is going to make everyone happy. There have been numerous threads discussing SYD-LHR and other long haul non-stop flights with some posters saying they'd love the non-stop option whilst you had other people saying they'd avoid it like the plague.

Ultimately QF will launch the flight if there is sufficient demand for such a flight, and you can be sure they'll do their due diligence before committing to such an undertaking particularly as they'll need to order a new subfleet specifically for this mission.

This flight is also significant in that one of the world's longest flight is finally coming back to Europe. Right now, all of the world's longest flights don't even touch the continent.

SYDSpotter wrote:

Ultimately QF will launch the flight if there is sufficient demand for such a flight, and you can be sure they'll do their due diligence before committing to such an undertaking particularly as they'll need to order a new subfleet specifically for this mission.

The keyword here if "if". I believe there is a sizable demand by premium passengers, but not by people that can only afford economy class seats..

keitherson wrote:

This flight is also significant in that one of the world's longest flight is finally coming back to Europe. Right now, all of the world's longest flights don't even touch the continent.

What is the significance here?

Rome, Paris and Berlin might follow

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-eyes-no ... ome-berlin

qf789 wrote:

Flight schedule has been released

PER-LHR 1850-510+1
LHR-PER 1330-1315+1

First flight starts on 24 March 18

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-non-sto ... ch-24-2018

Does this line up with know QF LHR slot times?

Gemuser

Gemuser wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Flight schedule has been released

PER-LHR 1850-510+1
LHR-PER 1330-1315+1

First flight starts on 24 March 18

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-non-sto ... ch-24-2018

Does this line up with know QF LHR slot times?

Gemuser

The 0510 arrival is not used by QF1/9 but the 1330 departure is the same departure slot as QF10 at present. QF do have 2 other slots on lease IIRC so the 0510 arrival may be one of those.

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

Could not agree more. Who cares what class......22 hours a a plane? I'm a Aviation geek but please, once in the air and you can tell China from India to Europe who cares? So the colors change. Bid deal. It;s like thinking at snow from SEA to CPH. It's all snow.

alexinwa wrote:

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

Could not agree more. Who cares what class......22 hours a a plane? I'm a Aviation geek but please, once in the air and you can tell China from India to Europe who cares? So the colors change. Bid deal. It;s like thinking at snow from SEA to CPH. It's all snow.

From the article:

Qantas will begin daily non-stop flights between Perth and London on its new Boeing 787 Dreamliner from March 24, 2018, with tickets going on sale at 11.30am today – although travellers can expect to pay a premium over one-stop flights such as London via Dubai.
....
Fares will kick off at $2,270 for economy return, with $4,250 for premium economy and $9,725 for business class - although these are likely to drop during sale periods.

SQ found it difficult to get premiums for Y pax on SIN-LAX/EWR even though they were offering Y+ seats at top tier Y fares. I see no problem filling business and premium economy should be ok, but economy might be a challenge. Anyone in Y who is price sensitive will fly over Dubai.

alexinwa wrote:

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

Could not agree more. Who cares what class......22 hours a a plane? I'm a Aviation geek but please, once in the air and you can tell China from India to Europe who cares? So the colors change. Bid deal. It;s like thinking at snow from SEA to CPH. It's all snow.

So clearly non-stops of that duration are not for you lol

I'm sure Qantas did their research and there is a market for it. I feel like once upon a time people would have said the same thing you are saying about 12-15 hour nonstop flights once upon a time before they became technically and economically viable.

Personally I would prefer a 20 hr non stop over a 24 hour 1 stop with chances of problems at connection...but that is just my opinion

PER-LHR to use the QF9/10 numbers!! MEL-DXB-LHR is gone!

QF9 MELPER 1620- 1720/ PERLHR1850 0510+1

alexinwa wrote:

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

Could not agree more. Who cares what class......22 hours a a plane? I'm a Aviation geek but please, once in the air and you can tell China from India to Europe who cares? So the colors change. Bid deal. It;s like thinking at snow from SEA to CPH. It's all snow.

You are clearly speaking for the minority. People think that getting on and off a plane is simple because it's just sitting down on a seat and being fed. What you don't factor in is the possibility of not getting the same seat when you board the 2nd plane, a much fuller plane than the plane prior so you once empty seat to your left or right is now occupied by someone else.

Now, you seated, waiting to take off. Oops. Sorry, "This is your captain speaking, we've developed a mechanical issue with _____ and now are waiting for a spare to arrive from _____. I'm obligated to say that we at _____ _____ apologize for the delay but I honestly don't." Spare arrives, it's repaired. Good. Spare arrives, spare is installed but the airplane is still inoperable. Bad. You now need a new plane to fly X pax on to their last leg of their itinerary. Worse.

Say that there is no issue with the aircraft and its oversold. Now you're subject to the bidding wars between unwilling and willing passengers who are negotiating with the airline for more money.

Please don't make flying 22 hours out to be worse than it really is. People who fly long distances know what to expect and how to occupy their time. You make it seem like it's sitting down, staring at the seat back in front of you for the whole flight.

qantas747 wrote:

PER-LHR to use the QF9/10 numbers!! MEL-DXB-LHR is gone!

QF9 MELPER 1620- 1720/ PERLHR1850 0510+1

So what is going to make up the capacity, especially Y?

Gemuser

qf789 wrote:

Gemuser wrote:

qantas747 wrote:

PER-LHR to use the QF9/10 numbers!! MEL-DXB-LHR is gone!
QF9 MELPER 1620- 1720/ PERLHR1850 0510+1

So what is going to make up the capacity, especially Y?
Gemuser

EK is upgrading EK408/409 to A388
https://www.ausbt.com.au/emirates-goes- ... ai-flights

Yes just saw this on the QF site:

The Qantas Emirates partnership will continue to deliver an unrivalled offer to Europe with more options for passengers to choose from in both directions. Qantas customers in Melbourne will have the option to fly with partner Emirates on Qantas code to Dubai and then direct to nearly 40 destinations in Europe. Emirates is up-gauging its third daily flight from the Victorian city from a Boeing 777-300ER to an A380 service from the 25th March, 2018.
The Qantas A380 that currently operates the Melbourne-London route will be redeployed to meet periods of high demand from Melbourne and Sydney to destinations in Asia, such as Singapore and Hong Kong.

So given the premium fares QF is surrendering a goodly proportion of its Y volume from Victoria to UK to EK. I wonder if its a good idea? Well time will tell as always.
The flight is not currently 2:00pm AEST bookable on qantas.com.au, booking only go to 15/4/18.

Gemuser

rotating14 wrote:

What you don't factor in is the possibility of not getting the same seat when you board the 2nd plane

Would that be an issue flying MEL-SYD LHR or SYD-LHR via DXB? Would the airline not assign the same seat throughout? That certainly happened when BA flew PER-LHR with stops on the way because the same plane was used for the entire journey.
While, theoretically you might have an empty seat next to you on the SYD-DXB sector and find that you have a neighbour DXB-LHR, the converse could also happen.

I note that the Y fare is described by QF as competitive. I certainly hope so as it is usually possible to find fares that are lower, although they don't carry any premium for being non-stop. Either way, I wish Qantas well in this endeavour.

Qantas16 wrote:

Gemuser wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Flight schedule has been released

PER-LHR 1850-510+1
LHR-PER 1330-1315+1

First flight starts on 24 March 18

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-non-sto ... ch-24-2018

Does this line up with know QF LHR slot times?

Gemuser

The 0510 arrival is not used by QF1/9 but the 1330 departure is the same departure slot as QF10 at present. QF do have 2 other slots on lease IIRC so the 0510 arrival may be one of those.

QF9/10 is getting axed on March 23 2018 and the flight no. handed over to the PER-LHR service, the flight will actually begin as a domestic service in Melbourne flight times as follows:

QF9
MEL: 1520h
PER: 1720h
Layover: 90mins
PER: 1850h
LHR: 0510h +1

QF10
LHR: 1330h
PER: 1315h +1
Layover: 90mins
PER: 1445h
MEL: 2010h

Gemuser wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Gemuser wrote:

So what is going to make up the capacity, especially Y?
Gemuser

EK is upgrading EK408/409 to A388
https://www.ausbt.com.au/emirates-goes- ... ai-flights

Yes just saw this on the QF site:

The Qantas Emirates partnership will continue to deliver an unrivalled offer to Europe with more options for passengers to choose from in both directions. Qantas customers in Melbourne will have the option to fly with partner Emirates on Qantas code to Dubai and then direct to nearly 40 destinations in Europe. Emirates is up-gauging its third daily flight from the Victorian city from a Boeing 777-300ER to an A380 service from the 25th March, 2018.
The Qantas A380 that currently operates the Melbourne-London route will be redeployed to meet periods of high demand from Melbourne and Sydney to destinations in Asia, such as Singapore and Hong Kong.

So given the premium fares QF is surrendering a goodly proportion of its Y volume from Victoria to UK to EK. I wonder if its a good idea? Well time will tell as always.
The flight is not currently 2:00pm AEST bookable on qantas.com.au, booking only go to 15/4/18.

Gemuser

It wouldn't be just Y volume, it would be in all classes, but I think using the A380s to Asia will be more profitable for QF.

The new QF9/10 has been bookable for the past few hours. QF fares only go up to 355 days in advance.

I wouldn't be surprised to see QF1/2 go the same way with the next tranche of B787s.

Will have to put the brakes on if makes up too much time across the long flight. 4:30 earliest can

Personally I like long flight idea. You are in control of your own sleep/jet lag plan. Also not just the 2hrs on the ground, it is the 2 hours before hand the crew wakes you for food etc.

I tried a mock booking but the MEL-PER leg that was supposed to be there in place of the MEL-DXB-LHR isn't showing up.

Not for me, but it's awesome that a 787 will be doing this non stop. I remember many years ago the fuss about a QANTAS 744 doing LHR - Australia nonstop and that was empty!!

Wes...

Gemuser wrote:

qantas747 wrote:

PER-LHR to use the QF9/10 numbers!! MEL-DXB-LHR is gone!

QF9 MELPER 1620- 1720/ PERLHR1850 0510+1

So what is going to make up the capacity, especially Y?

Gemuser

QF probably aren't to worried about Y, they have said recently LHR is a hard route and I wonder what Y loads are like on the DXB-LHR sector? Probably full MEL-DXB leg.

Gemuser wrote:

So given the premium fares QF is surrendering a goodly proportion of its Y volume from Victoria to UK to EK. I wonder if its a good idea?

With their joint venture between Australia and Europe, it doesn't matter

Will the 789 take any sort of payload restrictions on this route? Or will it be able to fly a full load of pax both ways?

B752OS wrote:

Will the 789 take any sort of payload restrictions on this route? Or will it be able to fly a full load of pax both ways?

Block time is only 10 minutes longer UA SFO-SIN so that implies similar fuel loads required. Depending on time of the year and winds, UA sometimes flies with no blocked seats, and can block as many as 30 or so. I am assuming that QF would have similar numbers. Hopefully they put a more premium configuration in the airplane.

RoySFlying wrote:

rotating14 wrote:

What you don't factor in is the possibility of not getting the same seat when you board the 2nd plane

Would that be an issue flying MEL-SYD LHR or SYD-LHR via DXB? Would the airline not assign the same seat throughout? That certainly happened when BA flew PER-LHR with stops on the way because the same plane was used for the entire journey.
While, theoretically you might have an empty seat next to you on the SYD-DXB sector and find that you have a neighbour DXB-LHR, the converse could also happen.

I note that the Y fare is described by QF as competitive. I certainly hope so as it is usually possible to find fares that are lower, although they don't carry any premium for being non-stop. Either way, I wish Qantas well in this endeavour.

Indeed. On MEL-SYD you'll keep your seat when transitioning to LHR. But to your point, I was speaking in generalities in terms of quelling the hysteria over flying for over 18+ hours straight.

This reminds me of LCY-(SNN)-JFK on an A318. It's doable, people want to do it BUT in the volumes required to make it worthwhile? Not sure this will last. My sanity would be lost at that long in an aircraft, even a comfortable C class cabin. At some point, I just need some air and exercise, be that DXB or SIN. There's not THAT many people who need to fly between WA and London who can't afford the extra 2-3 hours and are willing to pay the premium IMHO

8herveg wrote:

nadavatar64 wrote:

Im super excited, finally the desired nonstop flight between the UK and Australia comes to fruition! I wonder how many years will pass until a nonstop SYD-LHR

People keep asking when this will happen, but why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

Believe me many people will, including me. In my opinion, that extra stop doesn't really contribute, if I have the chance I would rather fly nonstop, and that comes from someone who always flies in Economy. But hey, every person has a different opinion.

8herveg wrote:

why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

A few points really:
(1) Economy passengers aren't really the focus of an ultra-long-haul flight like LHR-SYD. 22 hours in a business class cabin with lie-flat seats and perhaps a bar area to while away a bit of time really doesn't sound so awful. You start with an unrushed meal service after an evening departure, followed by at least 8-10 hours of uninterrupted sleep time (but on demand snacks/drinks if desired). After a breakfast service 12-14 hours into the flight, several hours to accomplish work (or watch movies, play games) using the satellite internet service (or watch movies, play games, etc.) with another meal a couple of hours before arrival. The business class cabin is typically uncrowded enough to allow for a periodic stroll to stretch one's legs.
(2) The hour or two to stretch one's legs on the layover isn't as great as it sounds. Often the stop is at a time when one would prefer to be sleeping rather than walking around. Dragging a rollaboard or toting hand luggage around a foreign airport for a couple of hours isn't really all that much fun either. Sitting in a departure lounge or eating in an airport restaurant/club when one could be sitting or eating on a flight feels like a monumental waste of time.
(3) An extra stop is an extra opportunity for things to go wrong. Back in the day, CO 1/2 operated IAH-HNL-GUM and vice versa -- but the aircraft between IAH and HNL typically was not the aircraft which continued to GUM. In the event of a delay on the first leg, one could very easily miss the second leg and end up with an unexpected 24-hour delay. Yuck.

Now I hope QF does not take so long time to launch SYD-GRU nonstop.

AwysBSB wrote:

Now I hope QF does not take so long time to launch SYD-GRU nonstop.

Yes, I too think that has some good potential if the Brazilian economy continues recovering. But it will take the sails off a bit from the services going between Argentina/Chile and Australia/NZ.

ScottB wrote:

8herveg wrote:

why would anyone WANT to fly LHR-SYD non-stop? Especially Economy pax. Wouldn't people prefer to stop off for an hour or two to stretch their legs? 22 hours or whatver non-stop sounds like a horrible experience.

In the event of a delay on the first leg, one could very easily miss the second leg and end up with an unexpected 24-hour delay. Yuck.

Please tell me how a 24-hour delay in HNL, surrounded by oxygenated air and cocktails, could ever be unwelcome. Or maybe I'm just not jaded enough. You're right that things could always go wrong in that pesky connecting gateway, though. You might find yourself drinking Arab coffee and listening to the ethan at 545a. Crying shame.

qf789 wrote:

OA940 wrote:

I tried a mock booking but the MEL-PER leg that was supposed to be there in place of the MEL-DXB-LHR isn't showing up.

It is there. You can book QF9/10 as a domestic flight only but QF is discouraging that. The price of a one way on QF9/10 between PER-MEL is approximately double of QF's other flights on the route. There is also another domestic flight operating in each direction within 15-30 minutes of QF9/10

The price difference is probably because the route just launched. Happened with their MEL-LAX route on the 789.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the fares:

Fares will start from $2270 for a return economy fare, $4250 for premium economy and $9725 for business class, though Qantas said sale fares would likely be less than $2000.

http://www.traveller.com.au/qantas-pert ... urn-gvtf3u
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 466afbac91

Newbiepilot wrote:

B752OS wrote:

Will the 789 take any sort of payload restrictions on this route? Or will it be able to fly a full load of pax both ways?

Block time is only 10 minutes longer UA SFO-SIN so that implies similar fuel loads required. Depending on time of the year and winds, UA sometimes flies with no blocked seats, and can block as many as 30 or so. I am assuming that QF would have similar numbers. Hopefully they put a more premium configuration in the airplane.

Qantas puts only 236 seats into the 787-9, versus 252 on United Airlines.

usdcaguy wrote:

Please tell me how a 24-hour delay in HNL, surrounded by oxygenated air and cocktails, could ever be unwelcome. Or maybe I'm just not jaded enough. You're right that things could always go wrong in that pesky connecting gateway, though. You might find yourself drinking Arab coffee and listening to the ethan at 545a. Crying shame.

If you're connecting somewhere beyond GUM (in my case, it was to TKK), that 24-hour delay can snowball to a two- or three-day delay because the island hopper isn't daily. If you're headed from Australia to LON on business, a day's delay means missed appointments -- so it's preferable to reduce the risk of delays.