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Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:45 am
by mjoelnir
EA CO AS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

The contract is for carriage, not for a specified seat on a specified flight, so any lease/rent arguments are invalid.


I can well understand that this is your opinion.



It's actually a fact, but hey, don't let that get in the way of a good ol' fashioned "Airlines are eeeeeeeeeevil!" mjoelnir rant...


What is a fact? That airlines can enforce their COC with force against their passengers?
Or is it a fact, that it is possible that airlines can sell a ticket for a certain flight on a certain date, on a certain time, non changeable, non refundable if the passenger does not fly on that time on that date and still declare their are bound by nothing? Is your airline really prepared to defend this in a court of law?

What you do not seem to understand is that contract law regarding consumers is complicated and not every clause is enforceable or defendable in a court of law. It may stand in your COC, but only a court can decide if that clause is good and that is a big reason that corporation rather not defend some clauses in front of a court.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:50 pm
by dtw2hyd
EA CO AS wrote:
It's actually a fact, but hey, don't let that get in the way of a good ol' fashioned "Airlines are eeeeeeeeeevil!" mjoelnir rant...


Your condescending comments towards paid passengers are not helping the cause of 1000s of good airline employees.

Oscar shouldn't have tweeted. Let PR or attorneys handle the situation or stay with non-mainline excuse, not my problem.
There was no need to support the troops and city so quickly.
Oscar should have said "He is not wrong" without a pause, but said "He can't be wrong" with a pause. Real vs staged.

A series of costly mistakes of his own making.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:37 pm
by StarAC17
alfa164 wrote:
ahmetdouas wrote:
Let's not forget he'd have to pay 40% tax on whatever he gets ?


United1 wrote:
Could not tell you what the exact dollar amount is but it may not be as high as people think...probably low 7 figures if I were to hazard a guess. A huge percentage of that will go to the attorneys and another large chunk in taxes....


Payments designated for medical expenses and pain and suffering are generally not subject to federal income taxes. A properly-structured settlement will result in little, if any, tax liability.


No income taxes but a lot will be going to his lawyers that handled the settlement.

ikramerica wrote:
I'm sure it was for more than he deserved but not as much as he was hoping. Avoiding a trial and all the discovery of his past behaviors being made public was good for him.


First of all you have to convince a jury that his past indiscretions warranted him getting a concussion and losing two teeth. If this person had a rapsheet of causing disruptions on airlines then you might have an argument.

The main reason that UA did not want this is court is that they would have probably had to fork over more money, the COC would more than likely have been ripped apart by a judge, which would effect more than just UA.

727200 wrote:
I wouldn't have given this clown a dime. Go talk with the City of Chicago PD who did the damage. All this is going to do is encourage others to try the same thing. You should see all the crap airline employee's have to put up with since this happened. Its ridiculous the garbage they now encounter.


Then you would have been summoned in court and forced to by a jury and judge if you lost.

727LOVER wrote:
This reminds me of how quickly Disney settled with the alligator kid family. But why was there not as much hatred against Disney?


Many companies do shady stuff. Probably one of the most beloved companies out there is Apple.

They have had child labour issues, hide $2 trillion in cash overseas, colluded with other tech companies to keep labour costs down. Their former CEO whom is a genius was a certified asshole whom did nothing philanthropic while he was alive. Also there terms and conditions probably make UA's COC look angelic comparatively

People like Apple because they have a sexy phone that people love, Disney makes movies we like and now own the second biggest movie franchise in Star Wars.

People hate airlines and banks because they are for profit necessities and some of them probably act with way more corporate responsibility. The corporations people love make things or have services that people like and they put their blinders on.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:53 pm
by PlanesNTrains
mjoelnir wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

I can well understand that this is your opinion.



It's actually a fact, but hey, don't let that get in the way of a good ol' fashioned "Airlines are eeeeeeeeeevil!" mjoelnir rant...


What is a fact? That airlines can enforce their COC with force against their passengers?


You are twisting what he said.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:49 pm
by NorthTerminal
mjoelnir wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

I can well understand that this is your opinion.



It's actually a fact, but hey, don't let that get in the way of a good ol' fashioned "Airlines are eeeeeeeeeevil!" mjoelnir rant...


What is a fact? That airlines can enforce their COC with force against their passengers?
Or is it a fact, that it is possible that airlines can sell a ticket for a certain flight on a certain date, on a certain time, non changeable, non refundable if the passenger does not fly on that time on that date and still declare their are bound by nothing? Is your airline really prepared to defend this in a court of law?

What you do not seem to understand is that contract law regarding consumers is complicated and not every clause is enforceable or defendable in a court of law. It may stand in your COC, but only a court can decide if that clause is good and that is a big reason that corporation rather not defend some clauses in front of a court.


I think the point being is that arguments relating to other types of contract are not really pertinent and don't help arguments for or against. They may be useful as a simile, but don't really hold up to scrutiny beyond that, so are essentialy pointless.

The contract is indeed for carriage and not a specified flight. That is, until the passenger is boarded, then the contract is for a specific flight unless there is a safety or security reason to remove the passenger from the flight.

It is somewhat amusing that this argument is still raging into a second thread, even after all that has been said and transpired over the last couple of weeks.

10/10 for tenacity.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:06 am
by KarelXWB
Bump.

In addition to the settlement, two security officers have been fired, and another one resigned:

Three of the Chicago law enforcement officers involved in dragging a Louisville doctor off a United Airlines’ flight in April are no longer on the job, officials revealed Tuesday.

Chicago’s Inspector General Joseph Ferguson said an officer and an Aviation Security sergeant were fired, a third officer resigned and another received a five-day suspension — which was shorted to two days on appeal — for their involvement in the “violent forcible removal” of Dr. David Dao.


https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airpl ... ht-n811546

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:37 am
by bennett123
Jeffery Redding had also gone.

Not clear if for this or earlier non disclosure.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:44 pm
by D L X
KarelXWB wrote:
Bump.

In addition to the settlement, two security officers have been fired, and another one resigned:

Three of the Chicago law enforcement officers involved in dragging a Louisville doctor off a United Airlines’ flight in April are no longer on the job, officials revealed Tuesday.

Chicago’s Inspector General Joseph Ferguson said an officer and an Aviation Security sergeant were fired, a third officer resigned and another received a five-day suspension — which was shorted to two days on appeal — for their involvement in the “violent forcible removal” of Dr. David Dao.


https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airpl ... ht-n811546

Good. This is the appropriate outcome. Cops that misuse their license to use force should be retrained and/or removed.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:29 pm
by L410Turbolet
2175301 wrote:
[Knowingly letting people impersonate police; people not following procedures and protocol, etc.


Why does the federal government let the TSA officers knowingly impersonate law enforcement officers, which they are not?

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:00 am
by Super80Fan
Good, the United argument aside, the issue here revolved around these "security officers" and thinking they were above the law.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 am
by ual777
I’ve heard the number is much lower than anyone thinks (5 figures). From what I’ve heard there is additional video of him in the terminal beating his ownhead against the wall or some other erratic behavior.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:03 am
by jumbojet
ual777 wrote:
I’ve heard the number is much lower than anyone thinks (5 figures). From what I’ve heard there is additional video of him in the terminal beating his ownhead against the wall or some other erratic behavior.


famous last words, 'from what I heard'. So basically in other words, Dao banging his head in the terminal never happened. Now, if you can provide video of it, than I will believe you. And the true amount of any settlement is not known to you or anyone else for that matter. Unless your Dr. Dao, its pure speculation. But, it most likely reached into the 7 figures.

Now, from what I heard, Dao and family get free life time United flights in First/Business but reportedly, they declined the offer.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:54 am
by Varsity1
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:02 am
by jumbojet
Varsity1 wrote:
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.


what does it say on the boarding pass and the side of the plane? It was for all intents and purposes, it was a United flight.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:48 am
by mjoelnir
Varsity1 wrote:
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.


Hidden in between other costs.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:57 am
by vfw614
The contract is indeed for carriage and not a specified flight.


It that is the position of US law, I hope that United is aware that this is not the legal situation in other jurisdictions where they do business. Most jurisdictions would find it slightly bizarre that when I enter into a contract of sale about a red car with leather seats, a specified engine and all kinds of gadgets, the car dealer can come up with a blue car with non-leather seats, a different engine and a different set of gadgets, based on the notion that it is a contract of sale about a car and not about a specified car as ordered.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:01 pm
by CaliguyNYC
Varsity1 wrote:
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.


When your annual profit is in excess of $1B, a $5M settlement is not material. Remember "material" is defined as material in relation to their business not a "big" number to normal people like us.

The comments on this thread are sort of shocking. I hope the heartless comments are not coming from airline employees. I would hate to flying on your airline. Fact remains, no one should be treated like Dr Doa was (unless you are literally threatening people, have a gun etc). This is an airline and airline employees are not God. America spoke very clearly on this. Everyone airline basically responded and changed how they handled overbooking and deplaning. If you can't connect the dots on this (and understand the airline industry knows it is wrong), you aren't seeing clearly what is going on. On a side note, I've avoided flying UA since the Dr Doa incident. Flying them for the first time because no choice. Let's see how it goes.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:11 pm
by mm320cap
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.


When your annual profit is in excess of $1B, a $5M settlement is not material. Remember "material" is defined as material in relation to their business not a "big" number to normal people like us.

The comments on this thread are sort of shocking. I hope the heartless comments are not coming from airline employees. I would hate to flying on your airline. Fact remains, no one should be treated like Dr Doa was (unless you are literally threatening people, have a gun etc). This is an airline and airline employees are not God. America spoke very clearly on this. Everyone airline basically responded and changed how they handled overbooking and deplaning. If you can't connect the dots on this (and understand the airline industry knows it is wrong), you aren't seeing clearly what is going on. On a side note, I've avoided flying UA since the Dr Doa incident. Flying them for the first time because no choice. Let's see how it goes.


What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:17 pm
by OA412
D L X wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Bump.

In addition to the settlement, two security officers have been fired, and another one resigned:

Three of the Chicago law enforcement officers involved in dragging a Louisville doctor off a United Airlines’ flight in April are no longer on the job, officials revealed Tuesday.

Chicago’s Inspector General Joseph Ferguson said an officer and an Aviation Security sergeant were fired, a third officer resigned and another received a five-day suspension — which was shorted to two days on appeal — for their involvement in the “violent forcible removal” of Dr. David Dao.


https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airpl ... ht-n811546

Good. This is the appropriate outcome. Cops that misuse their license to use force should be retrained and/or removed.

Agreed. This was the proper outcome.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm
by jumbojet
mm320cap wrote:
[
What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.


The airline policy mistreated Dao. It was the asinine policy that UA had back then that set the wheels in motion and that much was even admitted by the Chief Executive Officer of United Air Lines, Mr. Munoz. They are the ones that are ultimately responsible. Not only that, it was Oscar Munoz's two statements that immediately followed the incident that really flushed the toilet full throttle for United Airlines. People need to stop putting the blame squarely on security. This is like a plane crash. You have to identify and go back to the root cause of what ultimately led to the failures of this incident. You can't just say it was the fault of the security officer's that were called by United.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:23 pm
by dtw2hyd
mm320cap wrote:
What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.


Airport retail security is different from Airport security. Their responsibility was to enforce retail employee badges and make sure they are not entering unauthorized areas or someone shoplifting. Nothing to do with aviation security or planes in general.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:44 pm
by mjoelnir
mm320cap wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.


When your annual profit is in excess of $1B, a $5M settlement is not material. Remember "material" is defined as material in relation to their business not a "big" number to normal people like us.

The comments on this thread are sort of shocking. I hope the heartless comments are not coming from airline employees. I would hate to flying on your airline. Fact remains, no one should be treated like Dr Doa was (unless you are literally threatening people, have a gun etc). This is an airline and airline employees are not God. America spoke very clearly on this. Everyone airline basically responded and changed how they handled overbooking and deplaning. If you can't connect the dots on this (and understand the airline industry knows it is wrong), you aren't seeing clearly what is going on. On a side note, I've avoided flying UA since the Dr Doa incident. Flying them for the first time because no choice. Let's see how it goes.


What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.


Still hiding behind that. I you ask somebody to beat someone else up, you are as guilty as the one doing the beating.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:07 pm
by GamingPolaris
mjoelnir wrote:
mm320cap wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

When your annual profit is in excess of $1B, a $5M settlement is not material. Remember "material" is defined as material in relation to their business not a "big" number to normal people like us.

The comments on this thread are sort of shocking. I hope the heartless comments are not coming from airline employees. I would hate to flying on your airline. Fact remains, no one should be treated like Dr Doa was (unless you are literally threatening people, have a gun etc). This is an airline and airline employees are not God. America spoke very clearly on this. Everyone airline basically responded and changed how they handled overbooking and deplaning. If you can't connect the dots on this (and understand the airline industry knows it is wrong), you aren't seeing clearly what is going on. On a side note, I've avoided flying UA since the Dr Doa incident. Flying them for the first time because no choice. Let's see how it goes.


What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.


Still hiding behind that. I you ask somebody to beat someone else up, you are as guilty as the one doing the beating.


No employee ever said, “Beat that man up.” So your speculation is flawed.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:11 pm
by GamingPolaris
mjoelnir wrote:
mm320cap wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

When your annual profit is in excess of $1B, a $5M settlement is not material. Remember "material" is defined as material in relation to their business not a "big" number to normal people like us.

The comments on this thread are sort of shocking. I hope the heartless comments are not coming from airline employees. I would hate to flying on your airline. Fact remains, no one should be treated like Dr Doa was (unless you are literally threatening people, have a gun etc). This is an airline and airline employees are not God. America spoke very clearly on this. Everyone airline basically responded and changed how they handled overbooking and deplaning. If you can't connect the dots on this (and understand the airline industry knows it is wrong), you aren't seeing clearly what is going on. On a side note, I've avoided flying UA since the Dr Doa incident. Flying them for the first time because no choice. Let's see how it goes.


What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.


Still hiding behind that. I you ask somebody to beat someone else up, you are as guilty as the one doing the beating.


No employee ever said, “Beat that man up.” If I’m correct, UA only asked for the passenger to be removed. So your speculation is flawed. There are too many ignorant people that fail to understand that UA or an airline has nothing to do with the airport security and their actions.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:19 pm
by ripcordd
Well when this happened they were called the DOA Department of Aviation Police Semi-Quasi Police force all went thru CPD training academy. They were glorified security guards well turns out they used Police and they were not so they are now called Security...CPD should have been called and they should have handled it but UA wanted this to go away quick and settled when Dao should have been charged and put on a ban list for life and other airlines should say this guy doesn't listen to crew members orders and put him on their ban list instead this opened a can of worms wanted to get paid for bad behavior. Sure UA could have kept offering more money until they had the number they needed off but they didn't and this guy refused lawful crew orders

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:20 am
by Varsity1
jumbojet wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If it were a material value it would have to be disclosed on UA's 10K filing.

I still find it amazing that Republic avoided any and all liability, it was their airplane and their crew.


what does it say on the boarding pass and the side of the plane? It was for all intents and purposes, it was a United flight.


If we're being honest it says Republic on the side of the plane and on the boarding pass.

Re: United and Dr. Dao reach settlement

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:28 am
by mcdu
mjoelnir wrote:
mm320cap wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

When your annual profit is in excess of $1B, a $5M settlement is not material. Remember "material" is defined as material in relation to their business not a "big" number to normal people like us.

The comments on this thread are sort of shocking. I hope the heartless comments are not coming from airline employees. I would hate to flying on your airline. Fact remains, no one should be treated like Dr Doa was (unless you are literally threatening people, have a gun etc). This is an airline and airline employees are not God. America spoke very clearly on this. Everyone airline basically responded and changed how they handled overbooking and deplaning. If you can't connect the dots on this (and understand the airline industry knows it is wrong), you aren't seeing clearly what is going on. On a side note, I've avoided flying UA since the Dr Doa incident. Flying them for the first time because no choice. Let's see how it goes.


What AIRLINE employee mis-treated Dr. Dao? It was Chicago Airport Security. And they have been terminated.


Still hiding behind that. I you ask somebody to beat someone else up, you are as guilty as the one doing the beating.


Did southwest demand the cops rough up the lady that would deplane recently ?