UA mainline returns to FAT

whatusaid · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:21 pm

From last nights schedule load, UA will launch 737-800 on FAT-SFO on the 6am on Aug 15. UA will also go to hourly departures between 6 and 8, add an e175 at 11 and 5. It's been at least 20 years if not more since mainline was here. I would expect DEN will see an upgage if the same pattern that played out at SBA comes to FAT. UA will be the first airline to benefit from the new FAT incentive program by upgrading to the 737.

dfwjim1 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:18 pm

Wow, nice for FAT. I lived in Fresno in the early 80s and at that time UAL was running 727s to DEN and ORD. Can't remember what they were flying to the Bay Area.

FATFlyer · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:55 pm

Very nice add.

This will be a big jump in capacity. The current FAT-SFO schedule is 2 CR2s and 1 CR7. That new schedule is 1 737-800, 2 E175s and 2 CR2 northbound flights (1 fewer CR2 return).

I'm glad UA finally responded to AA and AS growth at FAT over the last few years. Hopefully DL will also recognize FAT's nearly 40% growth in passengers over the last 6 or 7 years and add capacity or new routes to compete.

jkirbycomix · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:25 pm

Do we know if the mainline jet continues on anywhere after SFO?

nadavatar64 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:41 pm

Love those mainline upgauges in SFO! Now its time for DL to launch FAT-ATL.

n471wn · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:49 pm

Come on SWA and get into FAT now!!!

CONTACREW · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:59 pm

jkirbycomix wrote:
Do we know if the mainline jet continues on anywhere after SFO?

SFO-FAT aircraft sits overnight till it departs back to SFO at 6am.

FAT--SFO aircraft will fly anywhere we fly a 738.

flyfresno · Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:37 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
Love those mainline upgauges in SFO! Now its time for DL to launch FAT-ATL.

Don't hold your breath. Delta is holding firm on capacity right now, and they actually just downgraded one CR7 to a CRJ this summer to SLC. If they do add any new cities, expect SEA or, at the most, MSP.

flyfresno · Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:51 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
Very nice add.

This will be a big jump in capacity. The current FAT-SFO schedule is 2 CR2s and 1 CR7. That new schedule is 1 737-800, 2 E175s and 2 CR2 northbound flights (1 fewer CR2 return).

I'm glad UA finally responded to AA and AS growth at FAT over the last few years. Hopefully DL will also recognize FAT's nearly 40% growth in passengers over the last 6 or 7 years and add capacity or new routes to compete.

Yes! Glad to see mainline UA back in FAT!

As mentioned above, it's interesting how much capacity they are adding to SFO while keeping DEN the same. I would have expected them to swap out the morning RJ flight for the 737 and then add the E175s to DEN. SFO is definitely a more conservative add financially for them, but I would imagine that at least half of the pax leaving FAT have a final destination east of DEN. I wonder how much SkyWest's CRJ pilot/mx base has to do with the lack of DEN flights? I know it's dictated flight schedules in the past (most notably the 2X evening from LAX). I could see the two morning SFO RJs after the 737 as existing solely to get the planes in and out of MX for the night.

AS will be a big question going forward...they dropped the early PDX flight this summer, which means that the number of flights could be "right-sized," but with the VX merger, a few more markets might open up. SFO seems unlikely for them, but if they end up putting a lot of E175s in there, you might see one doing a terminator to FAT for MX. LAS is also a possibility I think in the E175...back in the day, 3 airlines flew it and there were double the number of passengers that there are today. We'll see...

SANFan · Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:48 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
jkirbycomix wrote:
Do we know if the mainline jet continues on anywhere after SFO?
FAT--SFO aircraft will fly anywhere we fly a 738.

I think what jkirby' is asking is: 'will the mainline flight FAT-SFO continue on as a direct, thru-flight to some other city beyond SFO?' For example, could UA start offering a direct FAT-SFO-SEA flight? (Same question for the return flight as well.)

In any case, great news for all you folks in the Central Valley. It will be awesome to see a big beautiful 738 sitting at the gate there soon!

I just wonder if this could possibly be some sort of preemptive strike by UA against something that some other carrier is planning soon -- such as some big adds by AAG or maybe even entry into the Fresno market by WN?

bb

flyfresno · Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:28 pm

SANFan wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
jkirbycomix wrote:
Do we know if the mainline jet continues on anywhere after SFO?
FAT--SFO aircraft will fly anywhere we fly a 738.

I think what jkirby' is asking is: 'will the mainline flight FAT-SFO continue on as a direct, thru-flight to some other city beyond SFO?' For example, could UA start offering a direct FAT-SFO-SEA flight? (Same question for the return flight as well.)

In any case, great news for all you folks in the Central Valley. It will be awesome to see a big beautiful 738 sitting at the gate there soon!

I just wonder if this could possibly be some sort of preemptive strike by UA against something that some other carrier is planning soon -- such as some big adds by AAG or maybe even entry into the Fresno market by WN?

bb

If SWA was going to enter FAT, wouldn't they keep it quiet until they announced?

FATFlyer · Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:36 pm

SANFan wrote:
In any case, great news for all you folks in the Central Valley. It will be awesome to see a big beautiful 738 sitting at the gate there soon!

To be specific that should be "see a big beautiful UNITED 738 sitting at the gate". AA's FAT-DFW is already a 738 twice a day. I sometimes see them overhead when I'm walking to/from my office parking lot.

SANFan wrote:
I just wonder if this could possibly be some sort of preemptive strike by UA against something that some other carrier is planning soon -- such as some big adds by AAG or maybe even entry into the Fresno market by WN?

As whatusaid mentioned above, FAT has a new incentive program for both new and existing routes. Replacing a frequency on a current route with a jet seating 107 passengers or more qualifies for 1 year of landing fee waivers. What is interesting is the additional frequencies on UAX above the current schedule.

whatusaid · Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:27 pm

flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Very nice add.

This will be a big jump in capacity. The current FAT-SFO schedule is 2 CR2s and 1 CR7. That new schedule is 1 737-800, 2 E175s and 2 CR2 northbound flights (1 fewer CR2 return).

I'm glad UA finally responded to AA and AS growth at FAT over the last few years. Hopefully DL will also recognize FAT's nearly 40% growth in passengers over the last 6 or 7 years and add capacity or new routes to compete.

Yes! Glad to see mainline UA back in FAT!

As mentioned above, it's interesting how much capacity they are adding to SFO while keeping DEN the same. I would have expected them to swap out the morning RJ flight for the 737 and then add the E175s to DEN. SFO is definitely a more conservative add financially for them, but I would imagine that at least half of the pax leaving FAT have a final destination east of DEN. I wonder how much SkyWest's CRJ pilot/mx base has to do with the lack of DEN flights? I know it's dictated flight schedules in the past (most notably the 2X evening from LAX). I could see the two morning SFO RJs after the 737 as existing solely to get the planes in and out of MX for the night.

AS will be a big question going forward...they dropped the early PDX flight this summer, which means that the number of flights could be "right-sized," but with the VX merger, a few more markets might open up. SFO seems unlikely for them, but if they end up putting a lot of E175s in there, you might see one doing a terminator to FAT for MX. LAS is also a possibility I think in the E175...back in the day, 3 airlines flew it and there were double the number of passengers that there are today. We'll see...

UA's FAT- DEN flights for the same period are placeholders. Historically, SFO changes seem to beat out DEN changes by a week at FAT. No doubt that that one if not two of the CRJs that follow are to get them out of MX and into the system. Frankly, I've always thought that FAT would be the last market that UA would upgrade to SFO or DEN because of that MX base. Does anyone know if that base is doing any work on 175's?

flyfresno · Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Very nice add.

This will be a big jump in capacity. The current FAT-SFO schedule is 2 CR2s and 1 CR7. That new schedule is 1 737-800, 2 E175s and 2 CR2 northbound flights (1 fewer CR2 return).

I'm glad UA finally responded to AA and AS growth at FAT over the last few years. Hopefully DL will also recognize FAT's nearly 40% growth in passengers over the last 6 or 7 years and add capacity or new routes to compete.

Yes! Glad to see mainline UA back in FAT!

As mentioned above, it's interesting how much capacity they are adding to SFO while keeping DEN the same. I would have expected them to swap out the morning RJ flight for the 737 and then add the E175s to DEN. SFO is definitely a more conservative add financially for them, but I would imagine that at least half of the pax leaving FAT have a final destination east of DEN. I wonder how much SkyWest's CRJ pilot/mx base has to do with the lack of DEN flights? I know it's dictated flight schedules in the past (most notably the 2X evening from LAX). I could see the two morning SFO RJs after the 737 as existing solely to get the planes in and out of MX for the night.

AS will be a big question going forward...they dropped the early PDX flight this summer, which means that the number of flights could be "right-sized," but with the VX merger, a few more markets might open up. SFO seems unlikely for them, but if they end up putting a lot of E175s in there, you might see one doing a terminator to FAT for MX. LAS is also a possibility I think in the E175...back in the day, 3 airlines flew it and there were double the number of passengers that there are today. We'll see...

UA's FAT- DEN flights for the same period are placeholders. Historically, SFO changes seem to beat out DEN changes by a week at FAT. No doubt that that one if not two of the CRJs that follow are to get them out of MX and into the system. Frankly, I've always thought that FAT would be the last market that UA would upgrade to SFO or DEN because of that MX base. Does anyone know if that base is doing any work on 175's?

They take E175s to the hangar every night, so likely at least service checks and minor things like replacing lights and tires. But I believe C and D checks as well as heavier MX items are done elsewhere like BOI and SLC...

DABEAR · Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:44 pm

Moving there in a month...should be good for some photography.

MIflyer12 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:49 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
As whatusaid mentioned above, FAT has a new incentive program for both new and existing routes. Replacing a frequency on a current route with a jet seating 107 passengers or more qualifies for 1 year of landing fee waivers. What is interesting is the additional frequencies on UAX above the current schedule.

Maybe a Delta 717 to LAX?

I don't expect FAT-ATL. They keep trying ONT-ATL (not succeeding). Even SMF-ATL looks to be only 2x daily.

flyfresno · Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
As whatusaid mentioned above, FAT has a new incentive program for both new and existing routes. Replacing a frequency on a current route with a jet seating 107 passengers or more qualifies for 1 year of landing fee waivers. What is interesting is the additional frequencies on UAX above the current schedule.

Maybe a Delta 717 to LAX?

I don't expect FAT-ATL. They keep trying ONT-ATL (not succeeding). Even SMF-ATL looks to be only 2x daily.

SMF-ATL is going 3X daily (bringing back a morning flight after almost a decade without one), but yeah, even OAK is having trouble with 1X per day to ATL and they have 3X A320 to SLC + 3X E175 and 1X 738 to LAX. FAT does not have high enough yield for it...

jkirbycomix · Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:27 am

With the current incentives, I am surprised no new carriers or cities have been announced. In Fresno's case "if you add it, they will come." Look at SAN for Alaska.

dfwjim1 · Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:56 am

I wonder if there would be any local traffic between FAT and SFO?

IPFreely · Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:07 am

nadavatar64 wrote:
Love those mainline upgauges in SFO! Now its time for DL to launch FAT-ATL.

LOL. DL is a non-factor at FAT and that isn't going to change.

FX1816 · Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:05 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
As whatusaid mentioned above, FAT has a new incentive program for both new and existing routes. Replacing a frequency on a current route with a jet seating 107 passengers or more qualifies for 1 year of landing fee waivers. What is interesting is the additional frequencies on UAX above the current schedule.

Maybe a Delta 717 to LAX?

I don't expect FAT-ATL. They keep trying ONT-ATL (not succeeding). Even SMF-ATL looks to be only 2x daily.

DL does NOT keep trying ONT-ATL, I've been back, working at the tower, since November 2014 and there have been NO Delta to ATL flights out of ONT since then.

Q · Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:01 am

United flew 727 many years ago DEN and ORD-FAT nonstop.

Q

flyfresno · Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:56 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
I wonder if there would be any local traffic between FAT and SFO?

I know a few people who have done it...if someone works for a big enough company, they will expense the $200+ each way rather than drive or take the train, even though the total travel time is only slightly faster in many cases when flying (and can be longer). But generally, not much...

CO953 · Mon May 01, 2017 1:59 am

Q wrote:
United flew 727 many years ago DEN and ORD-FAT nonstop.

Q

I remember back in about 1971, when I was a wee tot of about 4, going to FAT with my dad and his cousin to pick up the cousin's sons. No idea where they flew in from, but they came down jet-stairs and were riding a United 727 with the old pre-tulip livery.

Q · Mon May 01, 2017 2:43 am

CO953 wrote:
Q wrote:
United flew 727 many years ago DEN and ORD-FAT nonstop.

Q

I remember back in about 1971, when I was a wee tot of about 4, going to FAT with my dad and his cousin to pick up the cousin's sons. No idea where they flew in from, but they came down jet-stairs and were riding a United 727 with the old pre-tulip livery.

United may be used B737-200 LAX-FAT-VIS-SFO or FAT-BFL-VIS-MCD-SFO not sure remember what they have route feeding cities. I have United old timetables in my storage room. I can't get them too much boxes piled it up. LOL!

Q

CONTACREW · Mon May 01, 2017 3:04 am

From departed flights: 6-1-1972

UA893 FAT-BFL 9:30a 10:00a
UA280 FAT-DEN 8:30a 11:24a
UA835 FAT-LAX 7:25a 8:13a
UA885 FAT-LAX 2:40p 3:26p
UA631 FAT-LAX 5:25p 6:11p
UA325 FAT-LAX 7:50p 8:36p
UA911 FAT-LAX 9:20p 10:06p
UA869 FAT-LAX 10:50p 11:36p
UA850 FAT-SFO 6:50a 7:28a
UUA810 FAT-SFO 10:20a 11:00a
UA846 FAT-SFO 2:15p 2:53p
UA781 FAT-SFO 6:50p 7:28p

FATFlyer · Mon May 01, 2017 5:29 am

Q wrote:
CO953 wrote:
Q wrote:
United flew 727 many years ago DEN and ORD-FAT nonstop.

Q

I remember back in about 1971, when I was a wee tot of about 4, going to FAT with my dad and his cousin to pick up the cousin's sons. No idea where they flew in from, but they came down jet-stairs and were riding a United 727 with the old pre-tulip livery.

United may be used B737-200 LAX-FAT-VIS-SFO or FAT-BFL-VIS-MCD-SFO not sure remember what they have route feeding cities. I have United old timetables in my storage room. I can't get them too much boxes piled it up. LOL!

Q

In the early 70's Fresno had 1 UA frequency that was LAX-BFL-FAT-SFO as mentioned above. But nearly all of the Fresno UA service in the 70s was nonstop to SFO and LAX on the 737-200.

The UA milk runs in the 70s served the other San Joaquin Valley cities (except for Fresno) in various combinations like LAX-BFL-MOD-SFO; LAX-BFL-VIS-SFO; LAX-VIS-MCD-SFO; LAX-VIS-MCD-SCK-SFO; LAX-MOD-SCK-SFO; etc.

FATFlyer · Mon May 01, 2017 5:31 am

FATFlyer wrote:
Q wrote:
CO953 wrote:
I remember back in about 1971, when I was a wee tot of about 4, going to FAT with my dad and his cousin to pick up the cousin's sons. No idea where they flew in from, but they came down jet-stairs and were riding a United 727 with the old pre-tulip livery.

United may be used B737-200 LAX-FAT-VIS-SFO or FAT-BFL-VIS-MCD-SFO not sure remember what they have route feeding cities. I have United old timetables in my storage room. I can't get them too much boxes piled it up. LOL!

Q

In the early 70's Fresno had 1 UA frequency out of all the service mentioned above that was LAX-BFL-FAT-SFO. Nearly all of the Fresno UA service in the 70s was nonstop to SFO and LAX on the 737-200.

The UA milk runs in the 70s served the other San Joaquin Valley cities (except for Fresno) in various combinations like LAX-BFL-MOD-SFO; LAX-BFL-VIS-SFO; LAX-VIS-MCD-SFO; LAX-VIS-MCD-SCK-SFO; LAX-MOD-SCK-SFO; etc.

Tan Flyr · Mon May 01, 2017 5:40 am

FAT-BFL-VIS-MCD-SFO was the general route for may years ending in 1980. As best I recall, UA ended mainline in 87 or 88...89 at absolute latest.
I seem to recall at least 2 years between UA dropping and AA starting in June of 90.

We still hope for an ORD on a 1 x daily some day again! AA??

RWA380 · Mon May 01, 2017 7:40 am

CO953 wrote:
Q wrote:
United flew 727 many years ago DEN and ORD-FAT nonstop.

Q

I remember back in about 1971, when I was a wee tot of about 4, going to FAT with my dad and his cousin to pick up the cousin's sons. No idea where they flew in from, but they came down jet-stairs and were riding a United 727 with the old pre-tulip livery.

Most likely either SFO or LAX. This OAG page from 1975 shows UA flying n/s from FAT to SFO, LAX, BFL & DEN with a DC-8-61

http://www.departedflights.com/FAT75p1.html

Here is a timetable from 1972, still shows LAX, BFL, SFO & DEN n/s services.

http://www.departedflights.com/UA060172p15.html

It clearly shows the route several have mentioned already, LAX-BFL-FAT-SFO

MIflyer12 · Mon May 01, 2017 12:11 pm

FX1816 wrote:
DL does NOT keep trying ONT-ATL, I've been back, working at the tower, since November 2014 and there have been NO Delta to ATL flights out of ONT since then.

My grasp of Delta's history on ONT-ATL exceeds 2 1/2 years. Yours could, too, with effort.

BoeingGuy · Mon May 01, 2017 1:06 pm

RWA380 wrote:
CO953 wrote:
Q wrote:
United flew 727 many years ago DEN and ORD-FAT nonstop.

Q

I remember back in about 1971, when I was a wee tot of about 4, going to FAT with my dad and his cousin to pick up the cousin's sons. No idea where they flew in from, but they came down jet-stairs and were riding a United 727 with the old pre-tulip livery.

Most likely either SFO or LAX. This OAG page from 1975 shows UA flying n/s from FAT to SFO, LAX, BFL & DEN with a DC-8-61

http://www.departedflights.com/FAT75p1.html

Here is a timetable from 1972, still shows LAX, BFL, SFO & DEN n/s services.

http://www.departedflights.com/UA060172p15.html

It clearly shows the route several have mentioned already, LAX-BFL-FAT-SFO

You beat me to it. I was going to mention that UA actually flew DC-8s at one time FAT-DEN.

PSA started SFO-SCK-FAT-LAX with 727s around 1971 too.

FSDan · Mon May 01, 2017 2:45 pm

IPFreely wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
Love those mainline upgauges in SFO! Now its time for DL to launch FAT-ATL.

LOL. DL is a non-factor at FAT and that isn't going to change.

Surprise! It's an unnecessary and spiteful comment from IPFreely! I also don't expect DL to add ATL-FAT in the near future, but I can't see how a response like this adds to the discussion in any way.

If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.

Adipocere · Mon May 01, 2017 2:58 pm

Did FAT ever have scheduled widebody service, especially during the golden age of multi-stop hop routes in the 60's and 70's?

BoeingGuy · Mon May 01, 2017 3:53 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Did FAT ever have scheduled widebody service, especially during the golden age of multi-stop hop routes in the 60's and 70's?

Not that I'm aware of. The only likely airline would have been UA and I'm not aware of them ever sending DC-10s to FAT. PSA didn't run the L-1011s to FAT either. DC-8s are the biggest thing I know that has ever been scheduled to FAT.

IPFreely · Mon May 01, 2017 4:24 pm

FSDan wrote:
Surprise! It's an unnecessary and spiteful comment from IPFreely! I also don't expect DL to add ATL-FAT in the near future, but I can't see how a response like this adds to the discussion in any way.

If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.

Delta has a 3.3% market share in Fresno. That's not spiteful, thats a fact. If they do anything in Fresno it will be closing the station.

flyfresno · Mon May 01, 2017 6:31 pm

IPFreely wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Surprise! It's an unnecessary and spiteful comment from IPFreely! I also don't expect DL to add ATL-FAT in the near future, but I can't see how a response like this adds to the discussion in any way.

If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.

Delta has a 3.3% market share in Fresno. That's not spiteful, thats a fact. If they do anything in Fresno it will be closing the station.

DAL won't close FAT, it's too important to have a presence in the Central Valley, and right now, it's the only station between Burbank and Sacramento (and SJC). Despite dropping from 5 flights ten years ago to 3 now, passengers to SLC have continued to rise, albeit slowly. Delta doesn't seem to care much about developing FAT, but I doubt they will drop it.

FSDan · Mon May 01, 2017 9:04 pm

IPFreely wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Surprise! It's an unnecessary and spiteful comment from IPFreely! I also don't expect DL to add ATL-FAT in the near future, but I can't see how a response like this adds to the discussion in any way.

If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.

Delta has a 3.3% market share in Fresno. That's not spiteful, thats a fact.

I'm not denying that DL is a small player in the market. But no one was arguing that they are a big player, which is why your interjection didn't add to the discussion. Also, the derisive "LOL" was simply unnecessary (although in line with your general tone towards DL). I get the feeling you'd be delighted to see DL fail in FAT, which is not what most posters in this thread want.

Tan Flyr · Mon May 01, 2017 11:22 pm

If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.

I'd add to that at least 1 daily MSP r/t...The upper midwest is the one hole in the general map of hubs with a spoke to FAT.

Perhaps a CR7 to SEA to feed trans-pac flights? ( where is the relationship with Alaska at this time?)

As I have mentioned numerous times over the years..either a MSP/ DTW on DL or a ORD flight ( most likely AA) to fill the map gap.

After that I think one could reasonably say Fresno is "very well served!"

FATFlyer · Tue May 02, 2017 12:08 am

Tan Flyr wrote:
If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.
I'd add to that at least 1 daily MSP r/t...The upper midwest is the one hole in the general map of hubs with a spoke to FAT.
Perhaps a CR7 to SEA to feed trans-pac flights? ( where is the relationship with Alaska at this time?)
As I have mentioned numerous times over the years..either a MSP/ DTW on DL or a ORD flight ( most likely AA) to fill the map gap.
After that I think one could reasonably say Fresno is "very well served!"

Under the new incentive program, ATL; ORD or MDW; MSP; IAH or HOU; LGB; and SNA are considered "new priority destinations" with the highest potential incentives.

flyfresno · Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am

Tan Flyr wrote:
If DL wants to grow their presence at FAT, I'd think LAX-FAT would be high on the list along with a potential upgauge of SLC-FAT.

I'd add to that at least 1 daily MSP r/t...The upper midwest is the one hole in the general map of hubs with a spoke to FAT.

Perhaps a CR7 to SEA to feed trans-pac flights? ( where is the relationship with Alaska at this time?)

As I have mentioned numerous times over the years..either a MSP/ DTW on DL or a ORD flight ( most likely AA) to fill the map gap.

After that I think one could reasonably say Fresno is "very well served!"

I would put SEA above LAX. LAX is already pretty saturated for a route with very little O&D, and SEA has definitely seen more DL expansion lately than LAX. The "relationship" is over with AS, meaning Delta has no way to get FAT passengers to Asia other than making them double connect through SLC. Being as most Mexico passengers would likely continue to connect through GLD on AM rather than a new LAX on DL, and even with all the SkyTeam partners in LA, I think that LAX would create the least additional demand between the two markets. Additionally, SEA would probably siphon off more AS passengers than LAX would. That said, with the new gates in LAX, if DAL wants to become the airport's largest airline, they will probably want to duplicate AA and UA's routes, including FAT.

I agree with you...MSP/ORD would really fill in the map.

d8s · Tue May 02, 2017 12:54 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
Did FAT ever have scheduled widebody service, especially during the golden age of multi-stop hop routes in the 60's and 70's?

FAT used to have wide bodies come in for line training and maintenance flights in the 80's and 90's. It was always fun to watch a 767 fly the pattern.

By the late 80's almost all the UA flights, FAT-SFO and FAT-DEN were 732's. Decent loads in the back but the F cabin was always empty which made pass riding easy.

FX1816 · Tue May 02, 2017 5:02 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
FX1816 wrote:
DL does NOT keep trying ONT-ATL, I've been back, working at the tower, since November 2014 and there have been NO Delta to ATL flights out of ONT since then.

My grasp of Delta's history on ONT-ATL exceeds 2 1/2 years. Yours could, too, with effort.

So does mine in fact all the way back to 1985. Delta flew regularly from ONT-ATL for well over 2 decades before turning it in to a seasonal route then getting rid of it all together. I merely pointed out that you are incorrect in saying they keep trying ATL. Obviously using 763/762/752 aircraft regularly displayed that it was hardly a struggling route, every time I flew on them the flights were packed.

flyfresno · Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:27 pm

The Fresno City Council is slated to hear (and likely approve) a remodel of gates 6/8 including a new jetway for gate 8. If you read the agreement, one airline (client) made it a requirement that the new jetway be able to support both 737 and A320 aircraft (the latter was listed as adding extra cost due to additional fueling and fire suppression requirements). While the airline was not listed, these gates are currently dedicated to Alaska. This certainly adds fuel to the speculation that AS is planning to add mainline service to FAT in the near future, likely either to SEA and/or HNL. It is certainly possible, of course, that UA and AS will swap spaces (with AS moving upstairs) and UA will use these gates along with the ones across the hall...

https://fresno.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=

ericm2031 · Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:53 pm

Very likely could be AS to SEA. They are also adding mainline on SBA-SEA and that route saw less frequency to SEA than what FAT has. They seem to be using the E175's for the newer less mature routes.

FATFlyer · Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:15 pm

The funding was in the new city budget approved a few weeks ago. I've been waiting to see the contract on the council agenda.

While any gate assignment is possible (especially with the CUTE system at FAT), I would guess that it will remain the primary location for AS. With gate 6 remaining ramp boarding, while being shown in the documents as striped for Qs (along with CR2/7/9 and E-jets), and sharing the same hold room that seems to make sense. It allows AS to schedule a variety of their current aircraft at 6/8.

Gates 6 and 8 have the rental car area wall behind the aircraft parking so I see they plan in the diagram for angled aircraft parking.

The hold room is a little on the small size and will be crowded when used by a 737/A320. They can probably configure it with about 100 or so seats. It is too bad they couldn't include using some existing or new building space on the east side of the gate for more seating.

flyfresno · Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:25 am

FATFlyer wrote:
The funding was in the new city budget approved a few weeks ago. I've been waiting to see the contract on the council agenda.

While any gate assignment is possible (especially with the CUTE system at FAT), I would guess that it will remain the primary location for AS. With gate 6 remaining ramp boarding, while being shown in the documents as striped for Qs (along with CR2/7/9 and E-jets), and sharing the same hold room that seems to make sense. It allows AS to schedule a variety of their current aircraft at 6/8.

Gates 6 and 8 have the rental car area wall behind the aircraft parking so I see they plan in the diagram for angled aircraft parking.

The hold room is a little on the small size and will be crowded when used by a 737/A320. They can probably configure it with about 100 or so seats. It is too bad they couldn't include using some existing or new building space on the east side of the gate for more seating.

Not sure if you submitted any feedback on the FAT master plan website, but if not, I think you still have some time. My primary comment was how the entire portion of concourse between the newer building and the security checkpoint (affectionately dubbed "the cave") needs to be rebuilt to be two levels and widened by 10 or so feet on each side to have both a wider walkway and more seating. Unfortunately, with this expansion and the earlier rental car expansion, such a design becomes less practical and much more expensive. If they could add 4 more total jetways (current gates 5/7 and 6/8) AND rebuild the current FIS to be two levels with 2-3 jet bridges so the Mexican carriers don't need to also use the domestic side, the airport would be set for decades to come.

SANFan · Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:39 am

Thinking about AAG starting FAT-SNA, does anyone know if AS has or can get more slots at John Wayne to start such service?

Reading these hints/rumors about AS and FAT, it's very exciting to think that some nice growth is possibly coming to The Valley. I'm wondering if FAT-SAN might still be edging toward triple-daily, year-round service by AAG?

bb

whatusaid · Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:00 pm

Airport unofficially stated that the 6/8 remodel was for AS and the intent was they'd be able to handle whatever AS would fly here. Looking at the numbers since the 175's entered, FAT-SAN is actually down a few points - I would expect its a challenge to fill first class. Perhaps we will see that route return to 3X day Q400's, with 175's to PDX and 738's to SEA on a reduced frequency, say 2X a day, instead of the 3X 175. HNL is always out there. G4 ran decent numbers with unreliable service. A couple times a week would do well. Since coming to FAT, AS has added flights and/or frequencies and has a great reputation. The missing link now is the VX connection at SFO. Maybe they'll decide to add another Q run from SBA, FAT, maybe another, to SFO to feed the transcon. Looks like the remodel won't be done until June or so of next year, still ahead of the full post merger integration.

flyfresno · Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:59 pm

whatusaid wrote:
Airport unofficially stated that the 6/8 remodel was for AS and the intent was they'd be able to handle whatever AS would fly here. Looking at the numbers since the 175's entered, FAT-SAN is actually down a few points - I would expect its a challenge to fill first class. Perhaps we will see that route return to 3X day Q400's, with 175's to PDX and 738's to SEA on a reduced frequency, say 2X a day, instead of the 3X 175. HNL is always out there. G4 ran decent numbers with unreliable service. A couple times a week would do well. Since coming to FAT, AS has added flights and/or frequencies and has a great reputation. The missing link now is the VX connection at SFO. Maybe they'll decide to add another Q run from SBA, FAT, maybe another, to SFO to feed the transcon. Looks like the remodel won't be done until June or so of next year, still ahead of the full post merger integration.

Most of the time, first class on the FAT-SAN route is only priced $50-$60 more than coach. With that pricing (which was smart by AS), a few people might be willing to splurge for it. If it was 2X more like many routes, you're right, no one would do it, and it would be all upgrades and non-revs...

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