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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 7:48 am

a320fan wrote:
Was looking at flights to London for later in the year and notice QR have the A380 loaded for the MEL sector. I must have missed this announcement as it's currently still a 77W. Wonder if it has anything to do with EY pulling the A380 from this market.


Nothing to do with EY, it was announced earlier this year that QR would upgrade MEL to A388
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 8:14 am

qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
According to airline insiders the 2nd batch of 789's will be BNE based operating either BNE-DFW or BNE-LAX along with launching BNE-PER-CDG

https://www.ausbt.com.au/next-for-the-q ... s-to-paris

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... d7f59a7a13


Interesting, I could see BNE-LAX-JFK, and BNE-DFW this would balance out the loss of capacity from the 744 being removed from the route.

How many aircraft would this absorb?

What's the bilateral between AU and France? Is it seat based, or frequency? I vaguely recall QF felt there was a market for CDG but were limited to three flights a week, and this made them unappealing and increased costs due to lack of scale. But this could have been a 744e higher capacity would absorb the seats.


The bilateral is in 3 parts, it's listed as route1,2 and 3 which could just mean option 1,2 or 3 though I'm not 100% sure on that

Route 1

3 units of capacity in each direction per week

Route 2

7 weekly frequencies in each direction using any aircraft type

Route 3

1612 seats in each direction

https://infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/ ... 270417.pdf

Note: a daily 789 is 1652 seats per week do only 5-6 seats a day would need to be blocked off


I'm posting this on my phone so I can't link the text of the "exchange of notes", but this is the summary:

Route One: Australia-France via Asia
Route Two: Australia-Tahiti (and onwards to US/Mexico)
Route Three: Australia-New Caledonia

PER-CDG is governed by Route One. I can't find the text, but an explanatory memoranda gives the calculation of "unit" for the purpose of Route One. Basically a "unit" is 1 747, so that should be about 5 weekly by 787. It's also interesting to note that Dubai is not a permitted routing.
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 8:42 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Interesting, I could see BNE-LAX-JFK, and BNE-DFW this would balance out the loss of capacity from the 744 being removed from the route.

How many aircraft would this absorb?

What's the bilateral between AU and France? Is it seat based, or frequency? I vaguely recall QF felt there was a market for CDG but were limited to three flights a week, and this made them unappealing and increased costs due to lack of scale. But this could have been a 744e higher capacity would absorb the seats.


The bilateral is in 3 parts, it's listed as route1,2 and 3 which could just mean option 1,2 or 3 though I'm not 100% sure on that

Route 1

3 units of capacity in each direction per week

Route 2

7 weekly frequencies in each direction using any aircraft type

Route 3

1612 seats in each direction

https://infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/ ... 270417.pdf

Note: a daily 789 is 1652 seats per week do only 5-6 seats a day would need to be blocked off


I'm posting this on my phone so I can't link the text of the "exchange of notes", but this is the summary:

Route One: Australia-France via Asia
Route Two: Australia-Tahiti (and onwards to US/Mexico)
Route Three: Australia-New Caledonia

PER-CDG is governed by Route One. I can't find the text, but an explanatory memoranda gives the calculation of "unit" for the purpose of Route One. Basically a "unit" is 1 747, so that should be about 5 weekly by 787. It's also interesting to note that Dubai is not a permitted routing.


Thanks for clearing this up.

According to the register of available capacity 1 unit is 400 seats and above.

The 789 fits in the 200-239 seat bracket so that is 0.5 unit so they could operate 6 services a week
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 9:12 am

getluv wrote:
EK413 wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Sydney Airport has "turned down the opportunity to build and operate the new airport at Badgerys Creek..."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/sydney-airport-finally-turns-down-chance-to-build-new-airport-at-badgerys-creek-20170501-gvwunr.html


Excellent news a win win no more shopping centres and expensive parking fees!

EK413


You're really naive if you think the new airport won't be full of shops and offering expensive parking.


I take it $18.50 for 30-60mins, $26.50 1-2hrs is reasonable considering the average family farewelling loved ones would spend approximately 1-2 hrs at the airport that's a steep parking bill. How about the $13.80 "access" fee to use the international & domestic train stations? Naive right?

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jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 10:31 am

^^^^^

I do hope you're not going to spend the next 10 years debating parking fees at the new airport ?

FWIW, I'm glad that Sydney Airport has passed it up, they would've only dragged out the process for as long as it would've suited them. Now the government needs to stick to their word and get the project going....... with a rail link from the start.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:00 am

So what's the date of this bi-lateral or last amendment and what's the do the route options mean?

Gemuser
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:19 am

[*]
Gemuser wrote:
So what's the date of this bi-lateral or last amendment and what's the do the route options mean?

Gemuser


The bilateral is largely unchanged since it was first signed in 1971, specifically the routes and capactiy addressed are entirely unchanged.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:25 am

So no daily service? Forget BNE-PER-CDG, if true.

Gemuser
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:38 am

Gemuser wrote:
So no daily service? Forget BNE-PER-CDG, if true.

Gemuser


Why forget if it's not daily? there's a number of cities, JNB / SFO / SCL aren't daily and still seem to do ok.
even the Asian flying to CGK / MNL aren't daily.

A QF ticket via PER to CDG one way then via DXB the other would still work out fine for the off days when the via PER doesn't operate, it's not like Paris is a remote location unsupported by their Emirati friends.

Still find it interesting how much PER is being leaned on right now, a couple of years ago they had zero QF international flying, I'm wondering if the aircraft capabilities get to the point where east coast to Europe/LHR become an option how quickly QF will drop PER like a hot potato with a polite thank you note to WA for the good times.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:43 am

EK413 wrote:
getluv wrote:
EK413 wrote:

Excellent news a win win no more shopping centres and expensive parking fees!

EK413


You're really naive if you think the new airport won't be full of shops and offering expensive parking.


I take it $18.50 for 30-60mins, $26.50 1-2hrs is reasonable considering the average family farewelling loved ones would spend approximately 1-2 hrs at the airport that's a steep parking bill. How about the $13.80 "access" fee to use the international & domestic train stations? Naive right?

EK413


You agree to the rates when you enter the carpark, like any other carpark you enter.

Sydney Airport doesn't own the train stations, that's owned by another company.
I'm that bad type.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:51 am

Why forget if it's not daily? there's a number of cities, JNB / SFO / SCL aren't daily and still seem to do ok.
even the Asian flying to CGK / MNL aren't daily.

Because QF stopped flying to CDG some time ago because it couldn't get daily. Apparently it can get daily with a smaller aircraft and the B789 [QF configuration] qualifies.Still have grave doubts about PER_LHR, let alone PER_CDG, but we will see, won't we?
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 12:42 pm

What is the fixation with CGD or Paris in general. Have QF looked at the ammount of pax changing to CDG in DBX and thought " (and the other rumered routes in germany etc) we can do this on our own. And what will this do in the long term with the EK alliance if QF open up these routes direct? Will they still be part of the EK deal or are QF treading on the toes of there partner ?

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 2:18 pm

I'm sure that if QF rocked up in Paris with a proposal to fly nonstop to PER from CDG then French authorities would find a way to update the bilateral pretty damn quickly.

I imagine the opposition 10-15 years ago was more to do with granting QF additional rights on the Asia-France routes rather than Australia-France. Cutting out the stop removes any protectionist motivations that might have existed then.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 8:37 pm

Sri Lankan Airlines will launch flights to Melbourne by the end of the year with the airline planning to introduce a 4 weekly direct flight from Colombo
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 9:32 pm

A330freak wrote:
Sri Lankan Airlines will launch flights to Melbourne by the end of the year with the airline planning to introduce a 4 weekly direct flight from Colombo
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year


Was the route announcement we expected and spoken about prior? Kinda came from left field. Just a shame it's a 330. Would have to have seen a 340 come back and grace the skies of Melbourne again!

With a growing tourist sector, and equally a large expat dispora in AU should be a winning route for UL. Seems APAM are determined to grow, so no doubt some discounts involved to attract new business. If only they'd invest more in their terminal!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 10:11 pm

getluv wrote:
EK413 wrote:
getluv wrote:

You're really naive if you think the new airport won't be full of shops and offering expensive parking.


I take it $18.50 for 30-60mins, $26.50 1-2hrs is reasonable considering the average family farewelling loved ones would spend approximately 1-2 hrs at the airport that's a steep parking bill. How about the $13.80 "access" fee to use the international & domestic train stations? Naive right?

EK413


You agree to the rates when you enter the carpark, like any other carpark you enter.

Sydney Airport doesn't own the train stations, that's owned by another company.


I took the original 'parking and duty free' comment as a dig at SYD - their "abuse" of their monopoly position is one of life's little frustrations for users of the airport.

And I too am pleased that SAC will not own / operate SWZ. Apart from any other consideration, the competition will encourage SAC / SYD to prioritise their customers a little higher, their shareholders a little lower.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:12 pm

smi0006 wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Sri Lankan Airlines will launch flights to Melbourne by the end of the year with the airline planning to introduce a 4 weekly direct flight from Colombo
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year


Was the route announcement we expected and spoken about prior? Kinda came from left field. Just a shame it's a 330. Would have to have seen a 340 come back and grace the skies of Melbourne again!

With a growing tourist sector, and equally a large expat dispora in AU should be a winning route for UL. Seems APAM are determined to grow, so no doubt some discounts involved to attract new business. If only they'd invest more in their terminal!


Likely it was the expected announcement. It has been hinted at during the last couple of months. Great for tourism and business conections. Should also provide another connection option for many Indian cities, something currently dominated by KUL and SIN.

Should be a great year of One World carriers in Melbourne, with JL also close to an announcement according to multiple sources and people on various forums.
 
Internaute
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:17 pm

log0008 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Sri Lankan Airlines will launch flights to Melbourne by the end of the year with the airline planning to introduce a 4 weekly direct flight from Colombo
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year


Was the route announcement we expected and spoken about prior? Kinda came from left field. Just a shame it's a 330. Would have to have seen a 340 come back and grace the skies of Melbourne again!


Nope this is not the announcement I flagged - so there's another one to come for MEL this week.

It's seasonal, 4 x weekly. Runs over Aussie summer.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:27 pm

Internaute wrote:
log0008 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Was the route announcement we expected and spoken about prior? Kinda came from left field. Just a shame it's a 330. Would have to have seen a 340 come back and grace the skies of Melbourne again!


Nope this is not the announcement I flagged - so there's another one to come for MEL this week.

It's seasonal, 4 x weekly. Runs over Aussie summer.


Geez! How many announcements is MEL getting! :D

I'm guessing AC, MEL-YVR. AC might be trialling a MEL service before fully committing to year round services.

OR

OZ MEL-ICN.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:29 pm

Will be interesting to see if it connects to the London flight, could be a great way to get to London, especially business class
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:29 pm

Should be a great year of One World carriers in Melbourne, with JL also close to an announcement according to multiple sources and people on various forums.


It's good that traffic continues to grow at MEL but it does beg the question as to how all of this increased traffic will fit into T2 at MEL which is already beyond capacity during peak periods such as morning arrivals, mid-afternoon departures and late evening arrivals and departures. I can only assume that these additional services will either be outside of the peak banks or will be subject to terminal bussing.

The 2013 Master Plan for MEL talked of redeveloping T3 for international use but not until 2033!!! This cannot still be the plan. MEL is obsessed with developing new shopping and dining options but seems bereft of plans when it comes to addressing its core business. A new plan is due next year.; this will be the first plan developed since Lyell Strambi became MEL's CEO. It will need to formalise clear designs, rather than just concept drawings, what the plans are for terminals (domestic and international), freight operations and runway developments.
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log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 02, 2017 11:42 pm

kriskim wrote:
Internaute wrote:
log0008 wrote:


Nope this is not the announcement I flagged - so there's another one to come for MEL this week.

It's seasonal, 4 x weekly. Runs over Aussie summer.


Geez! How many announcements is MEL getting! :D

I'm guessing AC, MEL-YVR. AC might be trialling a MEL service before fully committing to year round services.

OR

OZ MEL-ICN.


I'll keep my money on JL - MEL-NRT :)

So are you saying UL is only going to run over the summer Internaute?
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:00 am

kriskim wrote:
Internaute wrote:
log0008 wrote:


Nope this is not the announcement I flagged - so there's another one to come for MEL this week.

It's seasonal, 4 x weekly. Runs over Aussie summer.


Geez! How many announcements is MEL getting! :D

I'm guessing AC, MEL-YVR. AC might be trialling a MEL service before fully committing to year round services.

OR

OZ MEL-ICN.


I don't think it could be AC without dropping BNE, per the bilateral they can only serve 2 ports in Oz (Correct?). I doubt they would drop BNE in place of MEL so soon after launching BNE, it probably hasn't gone as well as they hoped but it hasn't been a dismal failure.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:07 am

kriskim wrote:
Internaute wrote:
log0008 wrote:


Nope this is not the announcement I flagged - so there's another one to come for MEL this week.

It's seasonal, 4 x weekly. Runs over Aussie summer.


Geez! How many announcements is MEL getting! :D

I'm guessing AC, MEL-YVR. AC might be trialling a MEL service before fully committing to year round services.

OR

OZ MEL-ICN.


My money is on JL, as none of the other have been previously mentioned in the threads.

But OZ and AC seem like a matter of time (although BNE just got downgauged) equally UA to SFO but none of these have been mentioned previously.

Even T1 and T3 seem to small for me for proper international Ops. I see MEL as a patched up band aid solution with an old building that can't cope. But equally I can't see desire for an adequate new build terminal facility - especially with the recent investment in road infrastructure to the current termal precinct.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:24 am

MooLor wrote:
getluv wrote:
EK413 wrote:

I take it $18.50 for 30-60mins, $26.50 1-2hrs is reasonable considering the average family farewelling loved ones would spend approximately 1-2 hrs at the airport that's a steep parking bill. How about the $13.80 "access" fee to use the international & domestic train stations? Naive right?

EK413


You agree to the rates when you enter the carpark, like any other carpark you enter.

Sydney Airport doesn't own the train stations, that's owned by another company.


I took the original 'parking and duty free' comment as a dig at SYD - their "abuse" of their monopoly position is one of life's little frustrations for users of the airport.

And I too am pleased that SAC will not own / operate SWZ. Apart from any other consideration, the competition will encourage SAC / SYD to prioritise their customers a little higher, their shareholders a little lower.


I disagree. They are a for profit corporation, and many Australians are exposed to SYD directly or indirectly through their superfunds.

Australian airports have always been neglected and poorly planned, but I think eventually they will have to change. In order to do this, you need more "expensive" parking and duty free shops. Believe it or not, airports derive a lot of income from those sources in order to subsidise modernisation and expansions without having to levy passengers.

"The airport is planning to build a fourth terminal, enabling it to "premiumise" the current T2 terminal, from which Jetstar and Tigerair currently operate, Ms Mather said."

http://www.afr.com/business/badgerys-cr ... 502-gvx616

I wouldn't be surprised if SYD and QF are having serious conversations about combining domestic and international together.
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DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:29 am

Seems the announcement for MEL is SriLankan. AusBT has this article this morning (no start dates, frequency, schedules, etc as yet):
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:55 am

Anybody planning to go to Wings Over Illawarra on the weekend? https://www.wingsoverillawarra.com.au

For anybody who has been before, what's the parking situation like, especially towards the middle of the Saturday?
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kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 1:20 am

Qantas16 wrote:
kriskim wrote:
Internaute wrote:

Nope this is not the announcement I flagged - so there's another one to come for MEL this week.

It's seasonal, 4 x weekly. Runs over Aussie summer.


Geez! How many announcements is MEL getting! :D

I'm guessing AC, MEL-YVR. AC might be trialling a MEL service before fully committing to year round services.

OR

OZ MEL-ICN.


I don't think it could be AC without dropping BNE, per the bilateral they can only serve 2 ports in Oz (Correct?). I doubt they would drop BNE in place of MEL so soon after launching BNE, it probably hasn't gone as well as they hoped but it hasn't been a dismal failure.


The bi-laterals were changed, it is now 9,000 weekly seats between Canadian international gateway cities to SYD, MEL, BNE, PER. The 2 city restriction is gone, this was changed before AC started BNE-YVR. No doubt AC has expressed their intention in serving MEL, I think it will happen sooner rather than later.
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log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 1:26 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Seems the announcement for MEL is SriLankan. AusBT has this article this morning (no start dates, frequency, schedules, etc as yet):
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year



The original poster of the rumor stated that UL was not what he was referring to
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 2:26 am

kriskim wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
kriskim wrote:

Geez! How many announcements is MEL getting! :D

I'm guessing AC, MEL-YVR. AC might be trialling a MEL service before fully committing to year round services.

OR

OZ MEL-ICN.


I don't think it could be AC without dropping BNE, per the bilateral they can only serve 2 ports in Oz (Correct?). I doubt they would drop BNE in place of MEL so soon after launching BNE, it probably hasn't gone as well as they hoped but it hasn't been a dismal failure.


The bi-laterals were changed, it is now 9,000 weekly seats between Canadian international gateway cities to SYD, MEL, BNE, PER. The 2 city restriction is gone, this was changed before AC started BNE-YVR. No doubt AC has expressed their intention in serving MEL, I think it will happen sooner rather than later.


Thanks for the information. I would still be surprised to see AC announce MEL so soon after launching BNE. I would think they would want to give BNE a few years to "settle in" before expanding further.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 2:56 am

I'm sure there is a market for MEL to Canada. it would have much stronger ex Australia demand, where BNE may have more ex Canada demand. The first airline to offer a non stop will be popular as people wil now be able to avoid connecting in SYD, LAX or AKL.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 5:36 am

A330freak wrote:
Sri Lankan Airlines will launch flights to Melbourne by the end of the year with the airline planning to introduce a 4 weekly direct flight from Colombo
https://www.ausbt.com.au/srilankan-airl ... -this-year


Id be interested to see if QF, as a fellow one world carrier, might add some codes to this flight and beyond to India (assuming bilaterals allow)
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 10:02 am

Obzerva wrote:
Still find it interesting how much PER is being leaned on right now, a couple of years ago they had zero QF international flying, I'm wondering if the aircraft capabilities get to the point where east coast to Europe/LHR become an option how quickly QF will drop PER like a hot potato with a polite thank you note to WA for the good times.


Well if there is sufficient standalone traffic originating/terminating in PER, then the service stays, if the majority of the traffic originates in MEL, then yes it probably will get axed. There's no QF resentment/bias towards PER, it will simply be that the PER market isn't sufficient to support a QF Intl service and QF just can't operate a point-to-point service in competition against the well established Middle Eastern and Asian carriers.
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luftaom
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 10:31 am

I don't think that Badgery's Creek will be as straightforward as most think.

For starters getting a rail line there will be expensive - even if they join it up with the existing lines, available line capacity isn't superb (the forward planning on the sydney rail network shows packed trains in years to come with the lines at maximum capacity - so it's not straightforward to just built a railway to the new airport. The economics of heavy rail to airports is also difficult. Just look at the two most recent failures - Brisbane and Sydney. The higher yielding east coast CBD-CBD traffic probably isn't going to use Badgery's Creek (heck they'd have to go past SYD to get there) so airlines aren't going to move services to the new airport on mass. Sure there are a stack of people living in Sydney's west (what is it 1 in 10 or 11 people in Australia live in Western Sydney) and the South-West is growing like mad but I don't think that it will be that easy to get it up and running and making a decent rate of return on the vast sums of money which will need to be invested.

Couple this with the fact that they sold off some of the noise reserve land ten years ago and you are now going to have a bucketload of people impacted by the noise from the new airport which further complicates the political landscape. Heck look at the talk of 'no fly zones' at night for the new airport before the last election.

SYD is only really held back by the 20 movements/15 minutes cap - which is there for political reasons. Look at what airports like Heathrow do with 2 runways (I appreciate that they are longer and further apart but my point is that 3 runways means a lot of potential capacity). Now I don't see that changing anytime soon (not least while the current member for Grayndler is there - although this seat is moving more and more to the left so may well go the way of Melbourne and turn Green and then the significant personal power the current member has in relation to all things sydney airport will be diminished).

The management team behind Sydney Airport is world class (although there is a new CEO on the cards with the (excellent) CEO moving on). I suspect that they can see the litany of problems associated with the new airport and the difficulty in getting an acceptable return on capital deployed and have chosen to watch this one from the sidelines for now. The new airport could well be a complete fizzer...
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log0008
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 10:36 am

AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Looks seasonal - Flights operate 1 December - 2 February only at this stage.

From Poster at Skyscrapercity
 
kriskim
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 11:01 am

Very exciting news! I guess I was right then! hehehe

Let's hope that bookings go through the roof and AC makes MEL permanent!
A world built upon connectivity.
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 11:39 am

luftaom wrote:
For starters getting a rail line there will be expensive - even if they join it up with the existing lines, available line capacity isn't superb (the forward planning on the sydney rail network shows packed trains in years to come with the lines at maximum capacity - so it's not straightforward to just built a railway to the new airport. The economics of heavy rail to airports is also difficult. Just look at the two most recent failures - Brisbane and Sydney.


Patronage on the Sydney and Brisbane airport lines suffer from one issue, exorbitant pricing. Any future train line will need to have their operations subsidised by the Government. Take the Sydney Trains network as an example, it is loss making but the Government subsidises the operation because of the wider economic benefits generated by having the rail network. A dedicated airport rail link will never deliver any direct economic return to owner, so it will almost always be in government hands.

luftaom wrote:
Look at what airports like Heathrow do with 2 runways (I appreciate that they are longer and further apart but my point is that 3 runways means a lot of potential capacity).


SYD may have 3 runways, but it is effectively only 2 runways given only 2 can be used simultaneously. The East-west runway cannot be in use at any time if the other 2 parallel runways (North-South and the 3rd Runway) are in use. SYD has reached saturation point during the peak periods, this can only be relieved by using larger aircraft or increasing capacity. Bumping up or removing the hourly cap only provides so much capacity, at current airport growth rates, the 2nd airport will be needed sooner rather than later.

luftaom wrote:
I suspect that they can see the litany of problems associated with the new airport and the difficulty in getting an acceptable return on capital deployed and have chosen to watch this one from the sidelines for now. The new airport could well be a complete fizzer...


The airport will not generate an acceptable return in the first 5 years to it's owner, that is a given. If the airport is to be owned/operated by a private company from day 1, then the Government will need to provide significant subsidies. The more likely scenario is the Government builds and runs the airport for the first 5-10 years, and then it sells the airport off. Because of the wider economic and social benefit provided by the new airport, the Government can afford to incur all those losses in the early years of operations. If aircraft/passenger movements continue to grow at current rates, Sydney needs and can sustain a 2nd airport. Even if the growth tapers off, there is more than enough room for 2 airports, it just means the two airports will need to share the pie and in the case of Sydney Airport, it means they will need to accept their current returns on SYD will drop with the arrival of a new airport.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
smi0006
Posts: 2547
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:27 pm

log0008 wrote:
AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Looks seasonal - Flights operate 1 December - 2 February only at this stage.

From Poster at Skyscrapercity


Is UL seasonal too? Three months is a short season, but I suppose purely for skip traffic. This will hit NZ hard.

Is this the routed announcement, or like UL another surprise?
 
log0008
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 12:32 pm

smi0006 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Looks seasonal - Flights operate 1 December - 2 February only at this stage.

From Poster at Skyscrapercity


Is UL seasonal too? Three months is a short season, but I suppose purely for skip traffic. This will hit NZ hard.

Is this the routed announcement, or like UL another surprise?


UL is not seasonal, this is the route our 'friend' was referring to being 4x weekly and seasonal. Not an official announcement but from a very reliable source os SSC forum. I expect both will be 'official' tomorrow.

For those interested here is the (very long) list of changes coming in the next 12 months for Melbourne, along with the main rumours.

JETSTAR 3 weekly MEL-SGN from May 10
JQ063 MEL1515 – 2105SGN 788 136
JQ064 SGN2235 – 1010+1MEL 788 136

LATAM 3 weekly MEL-SCL from October 5th
LA805 SCL1255 – 1755+1MEL 789 146
LA804 MEL1955 – 1900SCL 789 257

QANTAS 6 weekly 789 MEL-LAX from December 15
QF095 MEL1425 – 0945LAX 789 x3
QF096 LAX2335 – 1010+2MEL 789

TIANJIN AIRLINES CKG-MEL 3 weekly from September 27
GS7945 CKG0010 – 1230MEL 332 357
GS7946 MEL1430 – 2200CKG 332 357

QATAR upgrades to A380 daily from June 30
QR904 DOH2050 – 1720+1MEL 388 D
QR905 MEL2205 – 0525+1DOH 388 D

GARUDA INDONESIA adds Friday flight from June 2nd
GA716 CGK 2355 MEL 0920+1 Dx27
GA717 MEL 1300 CGK 1735. DX13

SINGPORE AIRLINES adds 5th service 3x weekly from July 17
SQ247 SIN0200 – 1125MEL 333 156
SQ248 MEL1240 – 1830SIN 333 156

XIAMEN adds 3rd weekly flight from June 6th
MF803 XMN 2150 MEL 0915+1 247
MF804 MEL 1120 XMN 1855 135

VIRGIN AUSTRALIA adds 5x weekly Hong Kong from July 5th

VA089 MEL0035 – 0815HKG 332 246
VA087 MEL0940 – 1720HKG 332 3
VA087 MEL1025 – 1805HKG 332 1
VA086 HKG1950 – 0720+1MEL 332 x57

EMIRATES moves EK408/409 to A380 from March 25th 2018
EK409 DXB0300 – 2320MEL 388 D
EK409 MEL0500 – 1300DXB 388 D

QANTAS adds London Via Perth, end London Via Dubai from March 24th 2018
QF009 MEL1520 – 1720PER1850 – 0510+1LHR 789 D
QF010 LHR1330 – 1315+1PER1445+1 – 2020+1MEL 789 D

ETIHAD adds 787-9 flight, ends A380 from October 29th
EY460/461 777-300ER replaces A380, 1 daily
EY462/463 2-class 787-9 replaces 777-300ER, 1 daily

SINGAPORE AIRLINES goes daily on the A350-900 from October 29th
SQ207 SIN0745 – 1810MEL 359 D
SQ208 MEL1925 – 0005+1SIN 359 D

AIR CANADA adds seasonal 4x weekly 787-9 YVR serivce from December 1 to February 2nd

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

SriLankan Airlines adds 4 weekly service from late 2017

Awaiting schedule*

Main Rumours:

MU: MEL-KMG (Late 2017)
JQ: MEL-CGO x2 weekly (Late 2017)
JL: MEL-NRT (Late 2017)
CA or CZ: MEL-SZX (Mid to Late 2017)
ID: DPS-MEL and CGK-MEL 2017/2018
OD: KUL-MEL 2017/2018
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11097
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 1:11 pm

log0008 wrote:
AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Looks seasonal - Flights operate 1 December - 2 February only at this stage.

From Poster at Skyscrapercity


Effective 3rd December to 4 February, ex MEL dates quoted above are ex YVR
AC37 YVR 2245 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

AC will also use this seasonal route to gauge support of potential expansion beyond peak season

https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-canada-to- ... m-december
Forum Moderator
 
a320fan
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 1:36 pm

log0008 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Looks seasonal - Flights operate 1 December - 2 February only at this stage.

From Poster at Skyscrapercity


Is UL seasonal too? Three months is a short season, but I suppose purely for skip traffic. This will hit NZ hard.

Is this the routed announcement, or like UL another surprise?


UL is not seasonal, this is the route our 'friend' was referring to being 4x weekly and seasonal. Not an official announcement but from a very reliable source os SSC forum. I expect both will be 'official' tomorrow.

For those interested here is the (very long) list of changes coming in the next 12 months for Melbourne, along with the main rumours.

JETSTAR 3 weekly MEL-SGN from May 10
JQ063 MEL1515 – 2105SGN 788 136
JQ064 SGN2235 – 1010+1MEL 788 136

LATAM 3 weekly MEL-SCL from October 5th
LA805 SCL1255 – 1755+1MEL 789 146
LA804 MEL1955 – 1900SCL 789 257

QANTAS 6 weekly 789 MEL-LAX from December 15
QF095 MEL1425 – 0945LAX 789 x3
QF096 LAX2335 – 1010+2MEL 789

TIANJIN AIRLINES CKG-MEL 3 weekly from September 27
GS7945 CKG0010 – 1230MEL 332 357
GS7946 MEL1430 – 2200CKG 332 357

QATAR upgrades to A380 daily from June 30
QR904 DOH2050 – 1720+1MEL 388 D
QR905 MEL2205 – 0525+1DOH 388 D

GARUDA INDONESIA adds Friday flight from June 2nd
GA716 CGK 2355 MEL 0920+1 Dx27
GA717 MEL 1300 CGK 1735. DX13

SINGPORE AIRLINES adds 5th service 3x weekly from July 17
SQ247 SIN0200 – 1125MEL 333 156
SQ248 MEL1240 – 1830SIN 333 156

XIAMEN adds 3rd weekly flight from June 6th
MF803 XMN 2150 MEL 0915+1 247
MF804 MEL 1120 XMN 1855 135

VIRGIN AUSTRALIA adds 5x weekly Hong Kong from July 5th

VA089 MEL0035 – 0815HKG 332 246
VA087 MEL0940 – 1720HKG 332 3
VA087 MEL1025 – 1805HKG 332 1
VA086 HKG1950 – 0720+1MEL 332 x57

EMIRATES moves EK408/409 to A380 from March 25th 2018
EK409 DXB0300 – 2320MEL 388 D
EK409 MEL0500 – 1300DXB 388 D

QANTAS adds London Via Perth, end London Via Dubai from March 24th 2018
QF009 MEL1520 – 1720PER1850 – 0510+1LHR 789 D
QF010 LHR1330 – 1315+1PER1445+1 – 2020+1MEL 789 D

ETIHAD adds 787-9 flight, ends A380 from October 29th
EY460/461 777-300ER replaces A380, 1 daily
EY462/463 2-class 787-9 replaces 777-300ER, 1 daily

SINGAPORE AIRLINES goes daily on the A350-900 from October 29th
SQ207 SIN0745 – 1810MEL 359 D
SQ208 MEL1925 – 0005+1SIN 359 D

AIR CANADA adds seasonal 4x weekly 787-9 YVR serivce from December 1 to February 2nd

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

SriLankan Airlines adds 4 weekly service from late 2017

Awaiting schedule*

Main Rumours:

MU: MEL-KMG (Late 2017)
JQ: MEL-CGO x2 weekly (Late 2017)
JL: MEL-NRT (Late 2017)
CA or CZ: MEL-SZX (Mid to Late 2017)
ID: DPS-MEL and CGK-MEL 2017/2018
OD: KUL-MEL 2017/2018

There's going to be a lot more bussing in MEL
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 3:39 pm

SYDSpotter wrote:

SYD may have 3 runways, but it is effectively only 2 runways given only 2 can be used simultaneously. The East-west runway cannot be in use at any time if the other 2 parallel runways (North-South and the 3rd Runway) are in use.


Unless something has changes recently I think 4 of the 10 runway modes of operation allow for 07/25 to be used in conjunction with 16/34L&R.

Mode 5 - Arrivals on 25 (and if necessary on 16R) + departures off 16L&R
Mode 7 - Arrivals on 34L&R + departures off 25 (and 34L for super heavies)
Mode 8 - Arrivals on 34L&R + departures off 34R and 25 (and 34L for the super heavies)
Mode 14a - Arrivals 07 (and if necessary 16R) + departures 16L&R

There is lots written about how Sydney airport is going to be completely full etc etc ... but take away the 20 movement per 15 minute cap and I think quite a number of those problems go away. This won't happen for political reasons ... but my point remains - the capacity problems are largely a result of the cap and not on the runways.
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smi0006
Posts: 2547
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 8:47 pm

 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 9:45 pm

qf789 wrote:
Effective 3rd December to 4 February, ex MEL dates quoted above are ex YVR
AC37 YVR 2245 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7
AC will also use this seasonal route to gauge support of potential expansion beyond peak season

I would expect they will be blocking some seats off. Max payload for probably what is a 16.5 hr sector is not enough for 298 seats.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 10:07 pm

Get your pics of the UPS MD-11 while you can; in a year or so the flight will transition to a B-744
FLYi
 
Internaute
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:08 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 11:12 pm

smi0006 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Is this the routed announcement, or like UL another surprise?


Yep this is the new service I flagged.

BNE aircraft change was partly in preparation for this.

MEL has been on the radar for a while, as many will know, but BNE was chosen in preference due to aircraft availability and capability at the time. Contrary to some suggestions, I believe BNE has performed well beyond expectations for AC.
 
log0008
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 11:24 pm

Internaute wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
AC to launch YVR-MEL - Seasonally

789 equipment

AC37 YVR 2345 - 0945+2 MEL 1,3,5,6
AC38 MEL 1140 - 0730 YVR 1,3,5,7

Is this the routed announcement, or like UL another surprise?


Yep this is the new service I flagged.

BNE aircraft change was partly in preparation for this.

MEL has been on the radar for a while, as many will know, but BNE was chosen in preference due to aircraft availability and capability at the time. Contrary to some suggestions, I believe BNE has performed well beyond expectations for AC.



Well Done!! Came as a bit of a surprise but fantastic news! You seem to have some good sources, what do you think the chances are of them ultimately moving to year-round sometime in the near future? :P
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7459
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 03, 2017 11:40 pm

Interesting, nice to see AC expanding down under, I had actually wondered if they might add AKL seasonally aswell, NZ have 2 premium 789's arriving later this year, no routes announced for them yet but some of us are speculating AKL-YVR, they have 37 less seats than the 772's mainly in Y but 7 less W aswell. Certainly a growing market though.
 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Thu May 04, 2017 1:28 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Interesting, nice to see AC expanding down under, I had actually wondered if they might add AKL seasonally aswell, NZ have 2 premium 789's arriving later this year, no routes announced for them yet but some of us are speculating AKL-YVR, they have 37 less seats than the 772's mainly in Y but 7 less W aswell. Certainly a growing market though.

While we are speculating I would suggest IAH. I believe that NZ would prefer to operate all EDTO-240 and greater with the 789. This would probably mean daily service to IAH.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7459
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2017

Thu May 04, 2017 2:49 am

sunrisevalley wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Interesting, nice to see AC expanding down under, I had actually wondered if they might add AKL seasonally aswell, NZ have 2 premium 789's arriving later this year, no routes announced for them yet but some of us are speculating AKL-YVR, they have 37 less seats than the 772's mainly in Y but 7 less W aswell. Certainly a growing market though.

While we are speculating I would suggest IAH. I believe that NZ would prefer to operate all EDTO-240 and greater with the 789. This would probably mean daily service to IAH.


It's daily in the peak DEC-FEB period, some have said the 77W could do some IAH flights and I'd say they would use 77W/772 rather than a 789 mix. But yes a 789 could allow IAH to go daily year round sooner. I wouldn't be surprised if it was daily year round by next year as is anyway
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