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sadiqutp
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United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:04 pm

Seat map of united A350s:

-60 Business (Polaris)
-91 Premium Economy
-186 Economy

Total: 337 seats

Seat suppliers: Zodiac&B/E Aerospace

https://twitter.com/A350_Production/sta ... 4604599297

P.S: I am not sure what their source is.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: UA won't ordering additional 77W aircraft, rules out A330neo

Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:53 pm

It's difficult to picture so many Premium Economy seats. I suppose Premium Economy should be Economy Plus?
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intotheair
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Re: UA won't ordering additional 77W aircraft, rules out A330neo

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:02 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
I suppose Premium Economy should be Economy Plus? Otherwise the aircraft would be too premium heavy.


Most likely they mean E+. That would be about the same ratio of E+ to E- on UA's other aircraft.

Interesting that it's also the same J count as the 77W and slots up above the projected 50J for the 772 refurbs, if those ever happen this decade.
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TheGeordielad
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:19 pm

Nice.Cant wait to see them!
 
Flighty
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:27 pm

They won't get that ratio of paid Y+, so who knows what they are doing. Protecting their FF's I guess.
 
sadiqutp
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:31 pm

Flighty wrote:
They won't get that ratio of paid Y+, so who knows what they are doing. Protecting their FF's I guess.


It's probably Economy+
 
Okcflyer
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:56 pm

Basically a 10% reduction in Y capacity (E and E+) competed to the new 77W. Same 60 seat count up front in Polaris.

The 60-seat Polaris section surprised me; I expected 52 or 56.
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:59 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
Basically a 10% reduction in Y capacity (E and E+) competed to the new 77W. Same 60 seat count up front in Polaris.

The 60-seat Polaris section surprised me; I expected 52 or 56.


The A350s was always planned on having 60 Polaris seats.
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crimsonchin
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:01 pm

But aren't they cancelling all their orders?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:02 pm

crimsonchin wrote:
But aren't they cancelling all their orders?


For now it seems just to be a deferral.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Scorpio
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:34 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
But aren't they cancelling all their orders?


For now it seems just to be a deferral.

Don't think UA has deferred any of the A350s. You're probably thinking of AA.
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:42 pm

Scorpio wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
But aren't they cancelling all their orders?


For now it seems just to be a deferral.

Don't think UA has deferred any of the A350s. You're probably thinking of AA.


Yes UA has deferred the first 5 A350s and as of right now all induction work is on hold and first A350 Sim delivery has been pushed back.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 12:31 am

I find the seat count comparison interesting with the 777-300ER. Given the same number of business class seats, the A350-1000 will have 29 fewer seats. Is this common for what we expect other operators to have? 30 seats is about an 8-9% capacity difference.
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 12:59 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
I find the seat count comparison interesting with the 777-300ER. Given the same number of business class seats, the A350-1000 will have 29 fewer seats. Is this common for what we expect other operators to have? 30 seats is about an 8-9% capacity difference.


In part this appears to reflect the lower payload capability of the A350-1000 at ~ 6000nm
 
Okcflyer
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 1:03 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
I find the seat count comparison interesting with the 777-300ER. Given the same number of business class seats, the A350-1000 will have 29 fewer seats. Is this common for what we expect other operators to have? 30 seats is about an 8-9% capacity difference.


Yes and this is primarily what is driving discussion around the A350-1000 Stretch ... either to be called -1000 or -2000.

While the A35K is a like-for-like replacement (capacity wise) for a 9-abreast 77W, is a whole step down for 10-abreast operators.

Most 77W's are now 10-abreast.

Ignore the front cabin capacity as the extra width of the 77W doesn't materially change space utilization.

Using United's proposed/actual configurations in Y capacity, the A35K seats 277 whilst the 77W 306. Considering only Y capacity, that's basically 10% smaller ... a materially significant difference if existing load factors are reasonable.

Most airlines expect annual growth. The 77W to A35K downsize can be a problem for some business models....hence the talk of the -1100/-2000. Other wise the 779 is the only platform larger (ignoring A380) and hence the success of the 779 so early in the program. The A35K order book is surprising small considering it's point in the lifecycle.

On the other hand, the A35K is a more natural, reasonable capacity step for existing 772 operators looking for modest growth in replacement frames. For 9-abreast operators, you're looking at roughly 7-8 more rows of seats. For 10-Abreast 772 operators, it's almost like-for-like capacity wise, maybe 18 seats more, with more cargo volume available.

Payload range at ULH stage lengths may be a problem but the 772 was also weak here.
Last edited by Okcflyer on Mon May 01, 2017 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 1:16 am

CONTACREW wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
Basically a 10% reduction in Y capacity (E and E+) competed to the new 77W. Same 60 seat count up front in Polaris.

The 60-seat Polaris section surprised me; I expected 52 or 56.


The A350s was always planned on having 60 Polaris seats.


Even after the decision to acquire the 14 77W for 744 replacements? I have a hard time imaging 35+14=49 frames with 60 J seats each finding enough routes / markets in United network. I expected a stairstep in between the 50 seats in a 772 (48 in 789) and the 60 seats in the 77W to better match market demand to capacity amongst different routes. It would be a huge increase in J capacity if fully deployed.
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 1:21 am

Okcflyer wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
Basically a 10% reduction in Y capacity (E and E+) competed to the new 77W. Same 60 seat count up front in Polaris.

The 60-seat Polaris section surprised me; I expected 52 or 56.


The A350s was always planned on having 60 Polaris seats.


Even after the decision to acquire the 14 77W for 744 replacements? I have a hard time imaging 35+14=49 frames with 60 J seats each finding enough routes / markets in United network. I expected a stairstep in between the 50 seats in a 772 (48 in 789) and the 60 seats in the 77W to better match market demand to capacity amongst different routes. It would be a huge increase in J capacity if fully deployed.


Remember 5 have been deferred and the other 30 who knows but yes even if we do take the A350s they will have 60J seats.
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GamingPolaris
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 2:27 am

CONTACREW wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

For now it seems just to be a deferral.

Don't think UA has deferred any of the A350s. You're probably thinking of AA.


Yes UA has deferred the first 5 A350s and as of right now all induction work is on hold and first A350 Sim delivery has been pushed back.


Can you please cite your information. Thank you!
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 2:39 am

GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Don't think UA has deferred any of the A350s. You're probably thinking of AA.


Yes UA has deferred the first 5 A350s and as of right now all induction work is on hold and first A350 Sim delivery has been pushed back.


Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.
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GamingPolaris
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 2:48 am

CONTACREW wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:

Yes UA has deferred the first 5 A350s and as of right now all induction work is on hold and first A350 Sim delivery has been pushed back.


Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.


Not to be blind, but I won't believe it until I see it.
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 3:09 am

GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:

Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.


Not to be blind, but I won't believe it until I see it.


Until you see what?
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Matt6461
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 3:16 am

Polaris already seems tight in the 777. Seems like it's gonna be 8ab in the a350 as Well? Does anyone know the Polaris 787 layout?
 
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zeke
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 3:19 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
I find the seat count comparison interesting with the 777-300ER. Given the same number of business class seats, the A350-1000 will have 29 fewer seats. Is this common for what we expect other operators to have? 30 seats is about an 8-9% capacity difference.


That is just the result of 9 abreast Y vs 10.

sunrisevalley wrote:
In part this appears to reflect the lower payload capability of the A350-1000 at ~ 6000nm


Not really, just 10Y on the 77W. Even with a UA 77W lold of passengers (366 pax) in a A350-1000 you would not be near maximum payload on a 6000 nn trip. The A350-1000 can carry about 60 tonnes of payload at that range, clearly it could carry 2.9 tonnes of passengers if the seats were there.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 3:21 am

GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:

Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.


Not to be blind, but I won't believe it until I see it.


multiple UA employees have posted the information contained in the memo on multiple online forums.

expecting an employee to post an internal memo on a public forum to please you is rather silly.

thank you (as always) for your insights, CONTACREW.
 
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rotating14
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 4:06 am

GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:

Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.


Not to be blind, but I won't believe it until I see it.



What part of "internal memo" leaves room for further explanation? It's data that is sensitive to certain UA staff. You wouldn't hand over your banking information to a stranger would you?? :-?
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 4:43 am

Matt6461 wrote:
Polaris already seems tight in the 777. Seems like it's gonna be 8ab in the a350 as Well? Does anyone know the Polaris 787 layout?


It's not really 8ab. Saw it this week on the 77W. It is a dense layout, but it's all aisle access and each person truly has their own space.
 
ikramerica
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 5:02 am

sunrisevalley wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
I find the seat count comparison interesting with the 777-300ER. Given the same number of business class seats, the A350-1000 will have 29 fewer seats. Is this common for what we expect other operators to have? 30 seats is about an 8-9% capacity difference.


In part this appears to reflect the lower payload capability of the A350-1000 at ~ 6000nm

This is what I've been saying from the start of the A350-1000 program. It can't actually replace the 77W because it is effectively smaller (9Y vs 10Y) and has reduced payload. As long as airlines are okay with 8-10% less capacity as a replacement, okay then. But many airlines use the 77W to its full sardine can potential.

Which is why the 779 has a market, but the 778 not so much. The 778 really only makes sense for airlines that push the 77W beyond its limits and/or fly the 77L for the range. But if Boeing is looking to create the 777-F8 then I guess the 778 is worth developing. Not that the 777-F market has been al that good.
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strfyr51
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Re: UA won't ordering additional 77W aircraft, rules out A330neo

Mon May 01, 2017 5:24 am

KarelXWB wrote:
It's difficult to picture so many Premium Economy seats. I suppose Premium Economy should be Economy Plus?

That's Highly likely that's what it is, more Legroom but the seat is still Narrow.
 
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zeke
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 5:32 am

ikramerica wrote:
This is what I've been saying from the start of the A350-1000 program. It can't actually replace the 77W because it is effectively smaller (9Y vs 10Y) and has reduced payload. As long as airlines are okay with 8-10% less capacity as a replacement, okay then. But many airlines use the 77W to its full sardine can potential.


United published their recent operational performance which covered March this year, their international load factor was only 75.9%. That load factor would represent 277 pax on a 77W. The same number of seats on the A350-1000 in their configuration would be a load factor of 82%, at the same time burning 20-25% less block fuel per sector.

By adding additional unsold seats into their inventory with these low load factors has been reflected in their consolidated statements with flat passenger revenue per available seat mile (PRASM) performance.

No airline makes decisions based upon 100% load factors. One would also have to ask if the load factors are so low what sort of yield would be generated by trying to attract the market to the unsold inventory.
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Waterbomber
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 6:51 am

zeke wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
This is what I've been saying from the start of the A350-1000 program. It can't actually replace the 77W because it is effectively smaller (9Y vs 10Y) and has reduced payload. As long as airlines are okay with 8-10% less capacity as a replacement, okay then. But many airlines use the 77W to its full sardine can potential.


United published their recent operational performance which covered March this year, their international load factor was only 75.9%. That load factor would represent 277 pax on a 77W. The same number of seats on the A350-1000 in their configuration would be a load factor of 82%, at the same time burning 20-25% less block fuel per sector.

By adding additional unsold seats into their inventory with these low load factors has been reflected in their consolidated statements with flat passenger revenue per available seat mile (PRASM) performance.

No airline makes decisions based upon 100% load factors. One would also have to ask if the load factors are so low what sort of yield would be generated by trying to attract the market to the unsold inventory.


Zeke puts it nicely. Unless you're flying over 90% load factors at good yields consistently, an A35J is not a step down from a B77W, but a capacity and huge cost optimisation. In addition, the improved passenger experience brings added value in the form of returning business.
The B77W gives you 30 more seats in the 10Y sardine can configuration, while carrying around 12-15 additional tons of dead weight with less efficient and noisy engines. The B77W simply can't win, the A35J is an optimised aircraft.
 
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zeke
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 6:55 am

The only evidence on the other threads comes from the latest UA 10-Q filing. http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/unit ... F&hasPdf=1

"As of March 31, 2017, United had firm commitments and options to purchase aircraft from The Boeing Company (“Boeing”), Airbus S.A.S. (“Airbus”) and Embraer S.A. (“Embraer”) presented in the table below:

Airbus A350 35"

All A350s are still firm according to the latest filing, the redacted change in the purchase agreement suggests a delivery delay.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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RWA380
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 7:22 am

GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:

Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.


Not to be blind, but I won't believe it until I see it.
This is a peeve, you don't know that CONTRACREW isn't fully informed on what he was telling you. But because this member won't share an internal company memo (which can cost one their job) you immediately discard their contribution as rubbish.

There are plenty of us, who are well informed on certain aspects of this industry & when someone doesn't have a New York times article to pull out of their butt, it can still mean they know of what they speak.

If you think you'd be blind to follow CONTRACREW, you're worse off if you don't. I've read this members posts enough to know they are true, have been accurate information & knows what they write about. My experience only, but I've only just been here on A.net over a decade.

Everyone here can just accept the fact that sometimes people know stuff & can't substantiate it with a article every time.

I.E. I posted on the Cuba landing slot thread 5 different times that AS would only ask for LAX-HAV. I had promised my source I would not say where or who I heard it from, as only a couple of people knew at that time & it would have been obvious..

Needless to say, I was ridiculed, told I was on drugs, AS would need to stop in Florida to make the route viable & all I could say was, you'll have to wait & see if you refuse to take what I already know as fact. It sucks when people blast you, when you know your subject.

I'm not saying to buy everything anyone says, hook, line & sinker, but consider there are plenty of airline employees here that DO know WTF they are talking about & to immediately disbelieve folks indicate a trust issue with yourself.
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OA940
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 8:08 am

If this is true, then UA are going all-in with J.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
94717
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 8:58 am

All J and Y seems to be a trend, with Lufthansa doing the same over time.

I have a sensation with Banking jobs moving from London the next 10 years even BA will follow the same trend.
 
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RL777
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 10:02 am

But guys remember the A350 has no business at UA! Nobody is excited for it either! ;)
 
94717
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 11:33 am

When the 744 vs 777 was in the same position a few years ago the logical was obvious - Leave the low yield passangers behind!

Y is useless only F and perhaps J generates money ;-)

Now F dissaperas and 777W getting old...
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 11:40 am

zeke wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
This is what I've been saying from the start of the A350-1000 program. It can't actually replace the 77W because it is effectively smaller (9Y vs 10Y) and has reduced payload. As long as airlines are okay with 8-10% less capacity as a replacement, okay then. But many airlines use the 77W to its full sardine can potential.


United published their recent operational performance which covered March this year, their international load factor was only 75.9%. That load factor would represent 277 pax on a 77W. The same number of seats on the A350-1000 in their configuration would be a load factor of 82%, at the same time burning 20-25% less block fuel per sector.

By adding additional unsold seats into their inventory with these low load factors has been reflected in their consolidated statements with flat passenger revenue per available seat mile (PRASM) performance.

No airline makes decisions based upon 100% load factors. One would also have to ask if the load factors are so low what sort of yield would be generated by trying to attract the market to the unsold inventory.



The 75.9% is the full year through march. Those are the lowest load factor months of the year. United has a full year load factor of 80.1% with a pacific load factor of 82.1%. All three US airline have similar international and transpacific load factors that time of year. First three months is close to 76% on all three

During January to march United does have excessive international capacity. During peak season planes are averaging 85-90%. Smaller planes would help load factor by maybe a percent over the year and help winter load factors. They would hurt revenue in the summer. The current revenue management systems rarely can fill a plane reliably to 100%. Getting 90% load factor on international sectors is usually the most profitable. On domestic travel load factors are higher since the market is more elastic. If capacity dropped, it would not just be unsold seats and magically lift load factor. Flights are sold to maximize revenue and that usually does keep some seats unsold. 90% load factors June - September make up for times like Chinese New Year when international business travel plummets to Asia and flights can have 50% load factors in mid February.

I don't think looking at the lowest 3 month of load factors gives us much information so we can really draw that many conclusions regarding flying the smaller A350 vs larger 777.
 
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zeke
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 12:19 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
The 75.9% is the full year through march.


The results I was referring to

http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-10-U ... erformance

The way I read the published results was that March international was 75.9%, 2017 YTD international was 75.2%. I used the international numbers as that is where the aircraft is deployed.

FYI 337 (A350)/ 366 (77W) = 92% means passengers are only would not be accommodated on the A350-1000 only when the 77W load factor was in excess of 92%.

You don't even think that is all that likely.

June 2016 international 85%
July 2016 international 86.6%
August 2016 international 84.8%
September 2016 international 81.2%

None over or around 90% like you suggested. The highest would have been Latin America in July with 89.6% but if I am not mistaken that is not where the UA 77W is deployed.
Last edited by zeke on Mon May 01, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VC10er
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 12:32 pm

I hate reading the word "deferral". So, when does #1 arrive on the property, or are the deferrals TBD? I would love to see the A350-1000 in the United fleet. I flew the 77W twice in Polaris and I was very impressed. I felt very comfortable in the seat, and while not the most "private" of all, it is private enough. The entire cabin is very attractive, especially given current cabin design...I can imagine the inside of the A350 will be beautiful in both cabins....and do wonders for UA's reputation, and when they change the current twin aisle aircraft, especially the 787's.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 12:36 pm

zeke wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
The 75.9% is the full year through march.


The results I was referring to

http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-10-U ... erformance

The way I read the published results was that March international was 75.9%, 2017 YTD international was 75.2%. I used the international numbers as that is where the aircraft is deployed.

FYI 337 (A350)/ 366 (77W) = 92% means passengers are only would not be accommodated on the A350-1000 only when the 77W load factor was in excess of 92%.

You don't even think that is all that likely.

June 2016 international 85%
July 2016 international 86.6%
August 2016 international 84.8%
September 2016 international 81.2%

None over or around 90% like you suggested. The highest would have been Latin America in July with 89.6% but if I am not mistaken that is not where the UA 77W is deployed.


UA had a very low February load factor.

The way revenue management works is that it uses models to price tickets to try to maximize revenue. To do that, fares increase with time as departure time gets closer. If load factors are almost 100%, there are no seats to sell at exorbitantly expensive walk up fares, the most profitable seats don't exist. A smaller plane will have the goal of higher load factors, but it is not a one of one ratio. Usually the early fares sold will be reduced. It depends on what the market looks like with pricing on whether or not the early discount sales are profitable. Given the excess capacity from the Chinese operators who are not always rational with regards to capacity and profit hurt profitability. Like I said earlier, it would boost load factors by a few percent or so year round with most of that benefit being in winter by flying smaller planes. It won't go from 75 to 82%. I think here are places where UA would benefit from higher frequency in peak using smaller airplanes. The 787 is where they are trying to do this more since it is operating on routes that have some marginal profitability. I don't think it is a logical conclusion that just because they have a 75% winter season load factor that they should fly smaller planes. UA has a good fleet mix and there are some routes that will miss out on revenue when the 747s are retired unless they can adjust frequency.

From what I read, a few flights really kill the transpacific load factor. The newer China routes on 787s had low load factors. NRT-ICN and a few other routes also underperformed. The A350 would likely be used on established routes with healthy capacity like SFO-NRT/ICN/HKG/SYD. UA has plenty of demand for large widebodies.
Last edited by Newbiepilot on Mon May 01, 2017 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 1:09 pm

GamingPolaris wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:

Can you please cite your information. Thank you!


Internal memo.


Not to be blind, but I won't believe it until I see it.


GamingPolaris I understand your skepticism UA is in the mist of a fleet review with talks still ongoing with both Airbus and Boeing. I know we are all sitting on pens and needles waiting to hear the results of this review which is taking for ever but I'm glad UA is taking their time to make sure they have the right aircraft to meet their future needs.
Internal memos can not be posted employees are free to comment on sites like this one but we can not copy and post internal memos. I know from working at WHQ that there a few internal memos out there in addition to those memos there are a lot of rumors and speculation, which is why I stopped posting on the UA's A350's for a while because there is just to much going on even for some one like me who works at WHQ sometimes it hard to separate fact from fiction. I understand why you said what you said but the reality is we all are going to have to be patience a little longer, UA will not publicly announce what is going on with the A350-1000 till they have finished the fleet review and right now a lot of focus is being placed on what will replace UA's aging 763 fleet. What I can tell you is UA still does not have a replacement for the 763, the fleet review continues. UA can not afford to be stuck with the wrong aircraft for 20 -30 years they have to get it right.
 
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zeke
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 1:19 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
UA had a very low February load factor.


I made no reference to February, the average international load factor for the whole of 2016 was around 78%, therefore March which I did refer to us very close to average. Every airline has seasonal load factors, it is an industry phenomenon that can be observed in the annual IATA reports. The question I guess that begs to be asked, is the 77W as it is currently configured too big for the routes it is deployed on with UA ? It would seem on face value (as I have not seen evidence to the contrary) the A350-1000 would be able do the current 77W routes with a higher load factor and significant reduction in fuel burn.

Newbiepilot wrote:
The way revenue management works is that it uses models to price tickets to try to maximize revenue. To do that, fares increase with time as departure time gets closer. If load factors are almost 100%, there are no seats to sell at exorbitantly expensive walk up idea that a smaller plane will have attain the goal of higher load factors is not a one of one ratio. Like I said earlier, it would boost load factors by a few percent or so year round with most of that benefit being in winter by flying smaller planes. It won't go from 75 to 82%.


I know how revenue management is performed within airlines, I have written about in detail on this site before. I dont know what that distraction of a topic change has to do with the current discussion. United would sell a lot of its inventory on contract basis to various companies, your simplistic explanation of retail sales is only a portion of sales.

Newbiepilot wrote:
UA has plenty of demand.


According to the published results, the highest international demand is to Latin America, not where the 77W is deployed.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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Polot
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 1:48 pm

zeke wrote:
I made no reference to February, the average international load factor for the whole of 2016 was around 78%, therefore March which I did refer to us very close to average. Every airline has seasonal load factors, it is an industry phenomenon that can be observed in the annual IATA reports. The question I guess that begs to be asked, is the 77W as it is currently configured too big for the routes it is deployed on with UA ? It would seem on face value (as I have not seen evidence to the contrary) the A350-1000 would be able do the current 77W routes with a higher load factor and significant reduction in fuel burn.

A) With so few 77Ws in service (3 or 4?) the 77Ws really wouldn't have much effect on the reported load factor. Perhaps the issue is with the larger 744 (that also includes a large F cabin)?
B) Saying "the 77W as it is currently configured too big for the routes it is deployed on with UA" requires actually knowing the average load factors on the routes it operates. That may be higher than the average load factor of the region as a whole.
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 2:53 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
Yes UA has deferred the first 5 A350s and as of right now all induction work is on hold and first A350 Sim delivery has been pushed back.


Hey CONTACREW, hearing talk of deferring/delaying the first deliveries too. Heard they finalized the manufacturer for the A-350 monuments, and that the final cabin layout has been accomplished. Never know what might happen though.......

Don't you just love the dismissiveness of some posters. Supposed to be a aviation enthusiast site, makes one not want to post........

How's your integration going ? There are high time subUAL techs that have bid into MCO, TPA and other stations, finally bidding is open to all. Have a shift bid in MCO, and those high seniority subU techs are bidding. Going to be a avalanche and to think some are complaining about it. Complaining is to be expected, but it is the way forward and reality now. Seniority rules. It is United now.....
You are here.
 
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keesje
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 3:16 pm

The revenues both the 777-300ER and A350-1000 generate will be comparable. About direct operating cost I'm not sure. The A350-1000 will be 20t lighter (equivalent to 200 passengers) and fuel burn should be double digit better. That works out best on long flights.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
birdbrainz
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 4:54 pm

Does anyone know if UA's A350's are going to get the wavy cheatline (a la 787), or the straight one?
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
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precure787
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 5:27 pm

Given that capacity, they might replace the pre-merger 777-200ER aircraft (assuming that the A350-1000 would fly international routes)
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 5:37 pm

keesje wrote:
The revenues both the 777-300ER and A350-1000 generate will be comparable. About direct operating cost I'm not sure. The A350-1000 will be 20t lighter (equivalent to 200 passengers) and fuel burn should be double digit better. That works out best on long flights.


Comparable? Yes, except 29 economy seats or 9% of capacity. Not a huge difference, but certainly a difference. The difference between the 788 and 789 is only 32 seats although revenue gap is bigger due to more business in the 789.

The direct operating costs will favor the A350. Revenue on the 77W is higher and ownership costs are probably lower. In the end the it all depends on what oil prices are and what passenger demand is for which would be more profitable and which is preferable for the airline on a given route.
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 5:47 pm

CALTECH wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Yes UA has deferred the first 5 A350s and as of right now all induction work is on hold and first A350 Sim delivery has been pushed back.


Hey CONTACREW, hearing talk of deferring/delaying the first deliveries too. Heard they finalized the manufacturer for the A-350 monuments, and that the final cabin layout has been accomplished. Never know what might happen though.......

Don't you just love the dismissiveness of some posters. Supposed to be a aviation enthusiast site, makes one not want to post........

How's your integration going ? There are high time subUAL techs that have bid into MCO, TPA and other stations, finally bidding is open to all. Have a shift bid in MCO, and those high seniority subU techs are bidding. Going to be a avalanche and to think some are complaining about it. Complaining is to be expected, but it is the way forward and reality now. Seniority rules. It is United now.....


For FAs the new contract is being implemented in phases. We will be able to start flying together once all FAs are on the new CCS system (planned for March 2018). CQ classes are being mixed sub CO and sub UA and the first 4 initial in-flight training classes this year were a mix of sub CO and sub UA (Sub CO all foreign language speakers excluding Hebrew speakers and all non language FAs ; sub UA Hebrew speakers only) the rest of this years classes are tentatively scheduled as sub CO only.
Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Airlines A350-1000 to feature 337 seats

Mon May 01, 2017 7:11 pm

birdbrainz wrote:
Does anyone know if UA's A350's are going to get the wavy cheatline (a la 787), or the straight one?



I guess well find out in 2020 and later. Who knows maybe a new livery by then a lot can change in 3 years........

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