Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
TasosANG
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 12:50 am

Wow, that is a rare situation, i hear something like that happend around 30 years ago and was with ships. I guess the different is big.
But lets see from the begining, you have your boarding pass in your hand with your destination, flight number and gate.is common logic i think that from time to time you check a flight schedule board to check the status of your flight. not only for a gate change but also for delay or cancelling. I can admit, that in AMS which make announsments in at least two languages that i understand very good, still i can miss something, mainly because of the noise around me or earphones that i use. it is clear that untill there i am responsible 100% if i am not on time or/and to the correct gate.
The lady said that they didn't made announsment in France. that is a little strange because in big airports and main destinations and even a destination which they speak a quite common languge as France, should be the announsment in France also. If that not happent for me is a point for improvment for the airport.
also the Lady said, that was no E-mail send to her for the gate change??? happent that? never hear that the company or the airport has to send you mail for a gate change. you can have some notification via smart telephones if you use apps of the airport or the company but nobody have to blame you if you don't do it
Further the lady said that has a family member with her as translator. also miss to hear the announsment in English or to read the board?
to this point the reponsibility is for them mainly. But on the gate is other, exept the fact that still you can see your flight number and your destination on the board there, and is written in latin alfabet which every body who speaks English or France can read, the FA there, they really mees it up. they -should- check thershelves the pass if is for this flight, very easy i think, and then to put it in the reader. also very simple. If you fail there, i don't know what to say more.
and in the airplane, two boarding passes with the same seat. can happent but not so often, was not a bell ringing there to someones head to check a little better?
i don't know to me looks very stupid from both sides that you can make to create a hole story like this just out of a gate change. as pasenger, you need to focus more to what you have to do and how you gonna do it correct and as airline to not became a joke by not be possible to bring under control a simple case like this
:P
 
Planetalk
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 1:59 am

It's so good to be able to be a part of this community on which I am blessed to be able to converse with some of the most briliant, capable, flawless, and no doubt handsome, minds on the planet. I mean they must be right, because they can't have ever made a single mistake in their entire lives, because anyone, who ever makes a mistake, must be stupid, ignorant, not fit to travel and just a failure of a human being. Oh to be so perfect! So much I could learn from you guys. Perhaps not so much in terms of emotional intelligence which is distinctly lacking in some of the usual suspects, and which you should perhaps remember is just as important as intellectual. Who knows how many things you're doing each day that are just completely idiotic to any normal person hey? ;)

Sarcasm off. Look, airports see all types of people from all walks of life. They have to have systems in place to deal with that. Yes the lady obviously has some responsibility for ending up on the wrong plane. But this WILL happen. It's inevitable, which is why airlines, who do (or should, I'm probably being over generous) understand everything about how airports work, have to have systems that can deal with inevitable events like this.

It's set up from the moment at check in the agent circles the gate number giving the clear impression to an infrequent passenger that that's where they should be. I fly frequently and I've been in plenty of situations at airports where multiple flights are departing at gates very close to each other, or even form the same gate, and it does quickly become confusing, even to frequent travellers. Obviously not to some of our flawless folk here, but to the rest of us mere mortals. I speak the language where I live and it can still be confusing, it's my second language and I'm generally fine, but with the way they rattle of their announcements and the 1930s sound system, I can see how this happens. There have been times I've approached a gate and shown my boarding pass because it was easier than trying to have a conversation amidst the chaos around us, in this situation I would have just been allowed onto the plane.

The fact is, there are probably other areas of life in which this lady is far more capable than the people judging her here, and if she happened to see you in her area of expertise she might think you're an idiot. But as she probably has some basic human empathy and emotional skills, probably wouldn't feel the need to go round shouting it. Anyway, some serious insecurities on display here, I'm sure we all know someone in real life who has to put everyone down all the time. They are never the sanest or smartest person we know. Very bizarre to judge all of humanity, including people you've never met, on how they deal with the world of planes just because you have a slightly geeky interest in it. (as do I, no judgement)
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4533
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 4:46 am

Flightsimboy wrote:
I can understand if the flight was cancelled or the timing changed. But a gate change. Gate numbers are announced at the airport just before the flight.

I can understand a text msg on your phone if you opted to track your flight.Hmm okay I see now if you do that it also allows you to provide your email too.

In some part of the world email have replaced the functionality of SMS in people's daily life
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
(≧▽≦) Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
(≧▽≦) Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
mikenz
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:27 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 5:43 am

It seems a security concern that she was let on the wrong flight. But I also agree with others who say there is a certain amount of personal responsibility here. I have travelled all over the world and I make very sure I'm at the correct gate
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13255
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 6:21 am

I didn't see a mention of a lawsuit coming.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 8:30 am

According to the article the auntie made it to the RIGHT gate. She followed the instructions given. She didn't just hit the first available gate or stumble up where it said SFO. For an inexperienced flyer, in a foreign country, she has done what one can expect of her she hs reached the gate that was assigned to her when she checked in.

Then comes the operational screw up. The gate gets changed but no information is given in he language that we can expect a reasonable number of passengers speak, French. So the passengers, that don't speak French and are inexperienced flyers not understanding what goes on, stays waiting at the gate thinking all is perfect. It takes an effort for them to notice the change themselves (Not exactly world class to not use the two languages, English and French, on a flight between US-France is it...). Leaving it to a paying customer notice changes to the service themselves is an error in itself. Changes are always arranged through either loudspeakers or through staff walking round ensuring everyone is aware of whats happened, especially on international flights and most definitely it would be expected that a question was asked to a French auntie sitting lone at the gate...

Also this assumption that all French reads the Latin alphabet? Read the name, look at the image of the lady - what makes you state so confidentially that the lady is a native reader of the Latin alphabet?
Why the assumption that she can read the Latin alphabet at all? She needs her niece to help with an interview (US news stations seems to have difficulty in finding reporters with basic language skills - pretty scary in itself).

So, despite the passenger having found her gate, no information that she can understand is given, she is after all sitting there waiting to board her flight.
Then, when its time to board, despite a gate change of the previous fight, the staff forget their primary task that is written in detail in their work manuals, ie the boarding pass check. So she walks through boarding happily assuming she is of to CDG.
The second check, when a passenger enters the cabin also fail to detect anything strange. Not sure why the UA cabincrew don't ask to see the boardingpass as she enters the airplane. Maybe that task is not part of their manual, if so, they are likely to see it added now. After all this is something do on virtually all non low cost airlines in the world.
This lady obviously knows her seat number and finds it and its occupied. She gets helped to a seat by nice crewmembers. No one spots the obvious, but its probably not this cabin members duty to do so, she is most likely just solving a problem as quickly as possible.

Failure on UAs part. Not something like Dr Dao where the air crews culture needs serious changes, but a failure to perform the duties that employees are paid for. The redundancy in the systems didn't work and its pretty easy to spot where mistakes where made.
The airline then does well. The SFO staff do whats expected of them, they get the lady on the next available plane to her final destination and we can assume that someone there is fluent enough in french to make the lady aware of whats happening.Thats handled the way it should. First ensure the customer is assisted and gets to er destination, then start the investigation int what went wrong and ensure that it doesn't happen again.

On A.net, there is then a discussion about whom to blame?
Hmm a paying customer at the right gate or an airline where processes haven't been adhered too. Difficult choice apparently since it seems to be about 50/50 on here.

In the real world the shifting of blame does not take place. UA states that it was their fault and take full responsibility. They put her on the next SFO-CDG flight plus provide her with compensation. Thas good. There will also be an investigation into what went wrong and I have a very distinct feeling that there are a few employees who has a lot to explain...
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
ubeema
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sat May 06, 2017 11:55 pm

Planetalk wrote:
It's so good to be able to be a part of this community on which I am blessed to be able to converse with some of the most briliant, capable, flawless, and no doubt handsome, minds on the planet. I mean they must be right, because they can't have ever made a single mistake in their entire lives, because anyone, who ever makes a mistake, must be stupid, ignorant, not fit to travel and just a failure of a human being. Oh to be so perfect! So much I could learn from you guys. Perhaps not so much in terms of emotional intelligence which is distinctly lacking in some of the usual suspects, and which you should perhaps remember is just as important as intellectual. Who knows how many things you're doing each day that are just completely idiotic to any normal person hey? ;)

Sarcasm off. Look, airports see all types of people from all walks of life. They have to have systems in place to deal with that. Yes the lady obviously has some responsibility for ending up on the wrong plane. But this WILL happen. It's inevitable, which is why airlines, who do (or should, I'm probably being over generous) understand everything about how airports work, have to have systems that can deal with inevitable events like this.

It's set up from the moment at check in the agent circles the gate number giving the clear impression to an infrequent passenger that that's where they should be. I fly frequently and I've been in plenty of situations at airports where multiple flights are departing at gates very close to each other, or even form the same gate, and it does quickly become confusing, even to frequent travellers. Obviously not to some of our flawless folk here, but to the rest of us mere mortals. I speak the language where I live and it can still be confusing, it's my second language and I'm generally fine, but with the way they rattle of their announcements and the 1930s sound system, I can see how this happens. There have been times I've approached a gate and shown my boarding pass because it was easier than trying to have a conversation amidst the chaos around us, in this situation I would have just been allowed onto the plane.

The fact is, there are probably other areas of life in which this lady is far more capable than the people judging her here, and if she happened to see you in her area of expertise she might think you're an idiot. But as she probably has some basic human empathy and emotional skills, probably wouldn't feel the need to go round shouting it. Anyway, some serious insecurities on display here, I'm sure we all know someone in real life who has to put everyone down all the time. They are never the sanest or smartest person we know. Very bizarre to judge all of humanity, including people you've never met, on how they deal with the world of planes just because you have a slightly geeky interest in it. (as do I, no judgement)

:checkmark: :checkmark:
 
phluser
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sun May 07, 2017 12:09 am

MillwallSean wrote:
Then, when its time to board, despite a gate change of the previous fight, the staff forget their primary task that is written in detail in their work manuals, ie the boarding pass check. So she walks through boarding happily assuming she is of to CDG..


I also wonder if a FA might have assumed she was flying EWR-SFO-CDG. While it's much a backtrack, maybe UA sells it. AA still sells PHL-DFW-LHR even after the merger with US, and the several better ways to reach LHR on AA from PHL.
 
coairman
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:31 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Sun May 07, 2017 2:47 am

No one is exclusively 100% at fault.........

-Passenger could look at the destination screen....it says San Francisco ....not Paris. In French it's all the same. No excuses.
-Boarding Agent scans boarding pass and the gate reader "beeps".....indicating wrong city. Obviously the agent messed up by either ignoring the beep or just forgot to scan the boarding pass as the agent might have been distracted by the language barrier...it happens.
-The flight attendant didn't bring up to the gate agent that there was a "seat duplication".....this discrepancy is usually clarified when it occurs prior to departure.
-There is no security issue....the passenger was screened through the TSA Security Checkpoint. There would have been an immigration issue if the destination scenario was reversed in such a manner that a passenger arrives into Paris without a passport.

Summary......these types of scenarios have happened quite frequently in the past. Especially prior to the electronic boarding pass and boarding pass scanner reader age. Technology has helped reduce these types of scenarios......but mistakes still happen.

If the details are valid and true...then mistakes were by the gate agent, fight attendant and the passenger.

There was no safety issue here and no harm done. Just a big inconvenience to the passenger........this would have not even been in the media prior to the Dr. Dao incident........not nice and very unfair and unbalanced media coverage....UA and other major US based legacy air carriers are easy targets under such unfair scrutiny.....
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Mon May 08, 2017 4:34 pm

guyanam wrote:
xxcr wrote:
sounds like the passenger needs to check her brain!! how do you board the wrong plane??? !!!!!!



Interesting that you don't suggest that the airline should ensure that the RIGHT passengers board their planes.

Now suppose a passenger buys a ticket NYC to ORD and boards a flight to HNL intentionally, so makes out like a bandit would you suggest that this person is stupid? He will beg to differ. In fact passengers do come up with schemes to defraud airlines. So I would think that the airlines would in fact protect themselves against this.



when you the board the plane, they make multiple announcements on the flight number and destination. The lady didnt speak english, but im pretty sure she was able to differentiate San Francisco and Paris.
 
User avatar
antoniemey
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 2:34 am

MillwallSean wrote:

Also this assumption that all French reads the Latin alphabet? Read the name, look at the image of the lady - what makes you state so confidentially that the lady is a native reader of the Latin alphabet?
Why the assumption that she can read the Latin alphabet at all?


If French was her native language (which seems the implication in what I read) then by that fact we can assume she reads the Latin alphabet because French is a language written SOLELY in the Latin alphabet. Not all French speaking people are native French speakers, but all French is written with Latin characters.

Now... on to other "Issues" people are raising:

The United gate reader system gives the same warning beep for several different reasons. Usually this is an indication to the agent to check their screen before letting the passenger proceed. Sometimes an agent who is busy and/or distracted may miss the beep, misinterpret which of the half-dozen reasons caused it, or, as others have noted, fail to actually scan the boarding pass.

I have also encountered situations where the reader refused to read the barcode on the boarding pass and the agent must revert back to the stone age way of reconciling the passenger, that is, looking at the unique identifying number on the boarding pass and keying that in. Note, that number is only unique within the people booked on the same flight. If you have a boarding pass for CAK-ORD and try to board CAK-EWR and your number is 15, and the agent keys it in, the computer will see the person on CAK-EWR with number 15 boarded. The name that pops up to confirm using the gate reader SHOULD be compared to the boarding pass, but, again, if the human doing this is distracted in some way, this step might be skipped.

The lady was checked in to go to CDG and if no reason was flagged for her bag not to be loaded into a container or into the bulk pit for her flight, it would be loaded as usual. If it was bulk loaded there would be an effort made to remove the bags from the aircraft she was supposed to be on when she didn't show for that flight. However, if it was not possible, it would go and United would sort out the penalty (if any) later. Some countries fine for any bag that arrives without a passenger, others take into account the fact that people miss flights and are OK with a bag arriving a certain amount of time before the person who owns it.

For those holding onto the idea that the announcements should have been made in French... well, maybe they should. But you can't guarantee that you'll always have a gate agent fluent in French available in the US. Announcements are made in English and in whatever other official language a local country may have. Nowhere in the US is French an official language for anything overseen by the Federal government. French announcements might have helped, but they might not, as I've had plenty of people try to board my flight to Chicago whilst holding tickets to Newark (and vice-versa) when I clearly stated "now welcoming group 3 for flight 1234 to Chicago". What you cannot expect is announcements in a language not native to the region you are in.

And for the scenario someone suggested where some con artist buys a cheap ticker to one destination and hops onto a flight to a more expensive location, if he gets caught he's thrown off the aircraft, potentially arrested, and depending on where he was trying to go, jailed by very unfriendly customs people. That is NOT a reason to consider this situation as anything more serious than a series of mistakes that are usually caught before the passengers ends up in the wrong place.

It happens, it was fixed as well as UA could when the issue was discovered, and there's plenty of blame to go around.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 3:27 am

I think the woman made a innocent mistake because she is elderly and not a seasoned traveler. Airlines used to care for these people, and kids or animals. Now not so much any more and those things happen, because although they stopped caring they still take the business. Maybe it can be worked out with better and redundant controls, possibly not intrusive controls.
 
PDX88
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:17 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 3:52 am

xxcr wrote:
when you the board the plane, they make multiple announcements on the flight number and destination. The lady didnt speak english, but im pretty sure she was able to differentiate San Francisco and Paris.


I doubt she was paying any attention to an announcement in a language she doesn't understand. How often are you trying to recognize words in a PA made in a language you don't know?
 
User avatar
tjcab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:14 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 4:07 am

gatibosgru wrote:
As usual on A.net, the blame is solely on the PAX.


so true. It's getting really annoying. Yes we are enthusiasts but is does not excuse the complete failure of United. May as well have been a secret security test-passenger revealing major gaps. meanwhile, were her bags sent off on the flight to Paris?
 
User avatar
tjcab
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:14 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 4:17 am

Planetalk wrote:
It's so good to be able to be a part of this community on which I am blessed to be able to converse with some of the most briliant, capable, flawless, and no doubt handsome, minds on the planet. I mean they must be right, because they can't have ever made a single mistake in their entire lives, because anyone, who ever makes a mistake, must be stupid, ignorant, not fit to travel and just a failure of a human being. Oh to be so perfect! So much I could learn from you guys. Perhaps not so much in terms of emotional intelligence which is distinctly lacking in some of the usual suspects, and which you should perhaps remember is just as important as intellectual. Who knows how many things you're doing each day that are just completely idiotic to any normal person hey? ;)

Sarcasm off. Look, airports see all types of people from all walks of life. They have to have systems in place to deal with that. Yes the lady obviously has some responsibility for ending up on the wrong plane. But this WILL happen. It's inevitable, which is why airlines, who do (or should, I'm probably being over generous) understand everything about how airports work, have to have systems that can deal with inevitable events like this.

It's set up from the moment at check in the agent circles the gate number giving the clear impression to an infrequent passenger that that's where they should be. I fly frequently and I've been in plenty of situations at airports where multiple flights are departing at gates very close to each other, or even form the same gate, and it does quickly become confusing, even to frequent travellers. Obviously not to some of our flawless folk here, but to the rest of us mere mortals. I speak the language where I live and it can still be confusing, it's my second language and I'm generally fine, but with the way they rattle of their announcements and the 1930s sound system, I can see how this happens. There have been times I've approached a gate and shown my boarding pass because it was easier than trying to have a conversation amidst the chaos around us, in this situation I would have just been allowed onto the plane.

The fact is, there are probably other areas of life in which this lady is far more capable than the people judging her here, and if she happened to see you in her area of expertise she might think you're an idiot. But as she probably has some basic human empathy and emotional skills, probably wouldn't feel the need to go round shouting it. Anyway, some serious insecurities on display here, I'm sure we all know someone in real life who has to put everyone down all the time. They are never the sanest or smartest person we know. Very bizarre to judge all of humanity, including people you've never met, on how they deal with the world of planes just because you have a slightly geeky interest in it. (as do I, no judgement)


100% agree. And it seems to be getting worse and worse over the years.
 
RoySFlying
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:28 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 4:22 am

What amuses me is that posters feel that they have to take sides. This isn't a battle (or at least it shouldn't be) over who was right and who was wrong. The passenger made a mistake and boarded the wrong flight. That should been picked up when the boarding pass was scanned: it wasn't. It should also been picked up when the lady was assigned another seat: it wasn't. Mistakes were made. The solution is not to apportion blame but to first of all rectify it and secondly to find out why it occurred and see it a similar mistake can be avoided in future.

Mind you, I could have understood it a bit more if the passenger had arrived in Paris, Texas if flights actually went there. ;)
 
LGAviation
Posts: 871
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 6:36 am

The fun part for me is that late last week almost the same happened to a fellow passenger of mine on an AA JFK-LHR flight which departed next to an AA JFK-GIG flight. Suddenly this lady complained that her seat had already been taken and it was only then after boarding was completed that they realised that this Rio bound lady had been aboard the London flight, although fortunately she could still leave. Had the seat not been occupied, the lady would've traveled to London instead of Rio.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 6:43 am

While I think expecting there to always be someone who speaks French (or other language) available is probably not realistic, I do understand how someone can board the wrong flight and not pick up on the error. Certainly I struggle half the time to understand what gate agents, flight attendants, and pilots are saying as they either speak too quietly, too quickly, or are on a system that is so poor that it really is a joke. I get how that happens, but I also can understand how this woman might have been on a plane to San Francisco and not picked up the words "San Francisco" in a quickly spoken announcement.

I can also see how things might have gotten to the point of boarding based on what others here have said, but shouldn't an FA who sees two people with the same seat assignment question it at some point? That part escapes me a bit.

Finally, not sure why they contacted the media (if that's what happened) unless they have been watching the news and knew that recent events in the industry were causing a backlash and they thought her story was worth telling about.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3573
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 6:53 am

My wife's from Japan and we travel there often. I speak and understand a very basic amount of Japanese. When I hear an announcement in a Japanese airport, I might hear the words "New York" but I may get absolutely no context around it - I have no idea why "New York" was spoken, so I have no reason to pay attention to it. For all I know it's referring to some other flight on the other side of the airport, or to something else entirely (it could even be an advertisement).

I'm not sure how this woman would have missed the *visual* cues at her gate that the flight was going to SF, but let's think about confirmation bias for a minute here. She was told a particular gate to go to, she went to that gate, the UA employees then scanned her boarding pass and let her on the plane. What is she supposed to think? Personally, I might consider for a moment that the signs at the gate are wrong - they often are.

The bottom line is that this is UA's fault, because *at minimum*, this is no different than going to the Wendy's drive-thru and getting the wrong order. UA flew her to the wrong city! This is never the passenger's fault. She paid to fly to CDG, it is UA's responsibility to fly her to CDG. It's their ticketing system, their gate agents, their flight attendants, their planes. Why this is even open for debate here is beyond me. It's UA's responsibility to make sure that people ticketed for a certain flight don't get on another flight. It was that way even *before* we had computerized systems. It's sure as heck that way now.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
cskok8
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 7:14 am

PDX88 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
when you the board the plane, they make multiple announcements on the flight number and destination. The lady didnt speak english, but im pretty sure she was able to differentiate San Francisco and Paris.


I doubt she was paying any attention to an announcement in a language she doesn't understand. How often are you trying to recognize words in a PA made in a language you don't know?


It is difficult enough to hear announcements in a language that you DO understand
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 5:15 pm

cskok8 wrote:
PDX88 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
when you the board the plane, they make multiple announcements on the flight number and destination. The lady didnt speak english, but im pretty sure she was able to differentiate San Francisco and Paris.


I doubt she was paying any attention to an announcement in a language she doesn't understand. How often are you trying to recognize words in a PA made in a language you don't know?


It is difficult enough to hear announcements in a language that you DO understand



im still just sitting here reading the article and shaking my head at the same time!!! she learned the hard way i guess...........
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 5:45 pm

Curiousflyer wrote:
I think the woman made a innocent mistake because she is elderly and not a seasoned traveler. Airlines used to care for these people, and kids or animals. Now not so much any more and those things happen, because although they stopped caring they still take the business. Maybe it can be worked out with better and redundant controls, possibly not intrusive controls.


How did United not care in this case? Once she ended up in SFO, they got her to CDG. What could they have done that was more caring?
 
jakubz
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 6:46 pm

rwsea wrote:
Curiousflyer wrote:
I think the woman made a innocent mistake because she is elderly and not a seasoned traveler. Airlines used to care for these people, and kids or animals. Now not so much any more and those things happen, because although they stopped caring they still take the business. Maybe it can be worked out with better and redundant controls, possibly not intrusive controls.


How did United not care in this case? Once she ended up in SFO, they got her to CDG. What could they have done that was more caring?


Oh, idk, maybe get a USAF tanker to refuel the aircraft in-flight so it could fly to Paris, drop her off, then continue onto San Francisco?
Or divert as soon as they figured out that she was on the right flight, then charter a bizjet at the drop of a hat to get her to Paris in style?
Or how about buying up all the remaining Concordes, parts, and maintence docs, make one airworthy (and certified) then fly her at Mach 2.0 to Paris? </sarcasm>

Come on, this is A.Nets favorite past time. Bashing United.

Ok, on a more serious reply... IMHO, both the pax and UAL screwed up in their own ways. Multiple problems lined up and resulted in an inconvenienced pax. After that UAL flew her to Paris, albeit delayed. Unfortunate, but if that is the worst problem of the day, then it's not that bad.
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of SA!
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320, A380, 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

My comment are my own. I don't speak for any company.
 
User avatar
FredrikHAD
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Tue May 09, 2017 7:48 pm

antoniemey wrote:
I have also encountered situations where the reader refused to read the barcode on the boarding pass and the agent must revert back to the stone age way of reconciling the passenger, that is, looking at the unique identifying number on the boarding pass and keying that in. Note, that number is only unique within the people booked on the same flight. If you have a boarding pass for CAK-ORD and try to board CAK-EWR and your number is 15, and the agent keys it in, the computer will see the person on CAK-EWR with number 15 boarded. The name that pops up to confirm using the gate reader SHOULD be compared to the boarding pass, but, again, if the human doing this is distracted in some way, this step might be skipped.
...
For those holding onto the idea that the announcements should have been made in French... well, maybe they should. But you can't guarantee that you'll always have a gate agent fluent in French available in the US.


I'm not going to join the blame choir, just share some thoughts. From the quote above (no criticism against antoniemey), is it really true that you can board a pax with only the seat number? I would have thought every boarding pass had a unique number. At any airport, 6 digits would be enough for having unique numbers not repeated for days. Surely if you can take the shortcut of entering just the seat number, you'd verify the name of the pax properly?

Commenting on the second paragraph above, it would hardly be a technical challenge to have recorded or even synthesized messages in more or less any language, so the need for a French[/Spanish/German/...] speaking gate agent just isn't there any more. Surely it would be a huge benefit for all to have at least change announcements in the languages most likely spoken by the pax for a particular flight? This would be a great improvement in customer service in my opinion, especially for destinations where a lesser part of the population in the destination country speaks English (like France, Germany, Spain and Italy to mention the most common examples of large countries in Europe where English is not very widely spoken). Recorded announcements in the gate area could even be generic, not mentioning flight numbers, times and such, just "We are now boarding for Paris" or "The flight scheduled from this gate has been moved to another gate" to mention just two examples of what would simplify the life for inexperienced travellers from other countries.

About the FAs missing the headcount, could it be that one pax that was supposed to go to SFO didn't show so the numbers added up anyway? No-show is not uncommon.

Lastly, if the woman was early, carefully reading the signs and sitting down in the (at that time correct) gate area, waiting for boarding to commence, it really isn't hard to imagine that when everyone else got up to board, this woman also did. Perhaps she did verify the signs, just not at that point in time?

Give everyone involved a break - and learn instead of blaming.

/Fredrik
 
weekendppl
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:59 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Thu May 11, 2017 1:57 pm

spacecadet wrote:
When I hear an announcement in a Japanese airport, I might hear the words "New York" but I may get absolutely no context around it - I have no idea why "New York" was spoken, so I have no reason to pay attention to it. For all I know it's referring to some other flight on the other side of the airport, or to something else entirely (it could even be an advertisement).

Exactly. And in many gate areas, there is a huge amount of aural pollution. There are announcements for that gate only. And spill over from surrounding gates. And for that terminal. General announcements for the airport. CNN on the TVs. People talking, always too loudly, into their devices. And on and on. All of it in a foreign language except for a few key words that are the same. And this lady failed to figure out "gate change announcement" (which is "Annonce de changement de porte" according to Google) when she only speaks French? The mere fact of it should have INCREASED gate agent vigilance that a passenger for Paris might be boarding for SFO by accident. (And all of that ignores the very real possibility that the passenger has compromised hearing to begin with.)
 
weekendppl
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:59 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Thu May 11, 2017 2:00 pm

rwsea wrote:
How did United not care in this case? Once she ended up in SFO, they got her to CDG. What could they have done that was more caring?

Cared enough to see that she got on the right aircraft in the first place. Duh.
 
jakubz
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Thu May 11, 2017 2:07 pm

weekendppl wrote:
Exactly. And in many gate areas, there is a huge amount of aural pollution. ... CNN on the TVs. ....


While I won't argue with the rest of those, last time I went through an airport and paid attention to the TVs (KMIA, a couple of weeks ago), the TV's were muted and closed captioning was on.
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of SA!
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320, A380, 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

My comment are my own. I don't speak for any company.
 
weekendppl
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:59 am

Re: UA EWR passenger sent to SFO instead of CDG

Thu May 11, 2017 4:02 pm

I have been at KDEN gates where TV audio was on overhead speakers. Never been to EWR, but it it's anything like LGA, I assume it's among the worst airports in the world by most any measure.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: addew1, ADL77W, Agent, Argent, Baidu [Spider], bardon04, Bing [Bot], Boeing74741R, Carpethead, flyjoe, Google Adsense [Bot], Grandforks12, GSP psgr, Jaybekay, Jetty, melpax, Ncfc99, oakleaf1, Obzerva, OTTOMANAIR, Panagiotis, qf789, RobTrueBlueFox, Speedbird96, xwb777 and 215 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos