chiki
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787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 6:38 am

With the 787-10 actively testing now we will soon be having all 3 variants of a passenger widebody being produced at the same time. I know this has happened with freighters included but having 3 variants of a passenger widebody in production is quite a feat.

Your comments if there other examples i might have might have missed
 
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intotheair
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 6:49 am

Some I can think of:

767. CO took delivery of 767-200ERs and -400ERs at about the same time, also not to mention that other airlines were still getting -300ERs.

The A340 was produced in four different lengths. There was a period when Airbus was building A343s, A345s, and A346s at the same time, though production of the A342 ended long before.

Also, the CRJ has had several models in production at once (and I suppose it theoretically still does). I'm not sure when the last CRJ-100/200 was built, but the 700, 900, and 1000 were/are produced concurrently and are still available for order.
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anshabhi
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 6:51 am

A358/359/35X soon all of them will be in production.
 
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scbriml
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 6:55 am

anshabhi wrote:
A358/359/35X soon all of them will be in production.


The A350-800 is not currently scheduled to be produced and likely never will be.
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CARST
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 6:56 am

There was the 767 ... which had -200s, -300s and -400s produced. I think some -200ERs might still have rolled off the line when the shortlived -400 was produced?

And of course you could argue about the A340/A330, which are more or less the same plane, just that one has 4 and the other 2 engines. So we had 4 to 5 models in production at the same time here (A332, A333, A343X, A345, A346).

I'm not sure if all three length variants of the L1011 were produced at the same time? (-100, -200, -500)

And I'm sure the 777 had 77E, 77L and 77W (so 200ER, 200LR, 300ER) in production at the same time, because when the 77L was launched in 2005, it was too heavy, with too much range for many airlines and they kept ordering 77Es.

I think that's it. Perhaps there are other examples, too?
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 7:06 am

Were 747-100/100B/200B/SP made in the same timeframe?
A300 have plenty of variants especially if you also count A310 as such.
I think DC-10 also have those like -10/-30/-40
So, from the aboce posts, A300/A330/767/777/787/L1011/DC10 and possibly 747 have all seen 3 variants being made in the same time frame, so only il-86/96/A380/MD11 have not? With A350 waiting to see will they give it a further stretch or relaunch 358
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 8:09 am

Not a jumbo of course but 4 models of the 737 is quite a feat. 737-600,700,800,900
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 8:59 am

b747400erf wrote:
Not a jumbo of course but 4 models of the 737 is quite a feat. 737-600,700,800,900


The OP was specifically referring to widebody frames.
 
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keesje
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 9:05 am

How many 787-8's are in the backlog? The production overlap between -8 and -10 might not last for very long.

https://leehamnews.com/2016/03/21/pontifications-787-8-no-longer-favored-boeing/
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KarelXWB
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 9:17 am

This has been done before: 767-200/300/400 and 777: -200A/200ER/300A/300ER.
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reidar76
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 10:09 am

A330-200, A330F, A330 MRTT, A330 Beluga XL, A330-300, A330 regional, A330-800neo, A330-900neo. These are different variants (certification).

One could argue that the A300/A310, and at least the A340 are different variants of the same basic widebody design as the A330. They have to some extent more in common than a 737 Jurassic has with a 737 MAX.
Last edited by reidar76 on Fri May 05, 2017 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
b747400erf
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 10:10 am

reidar76 wrote:
A330-200, A330F, A330 MRTT, A330 Beluga XL, A330-300, A330 regional, A330-800neo, A330-900neo. These are different variants (certification).

One could argue that the A300, A310, and at least the A340 are different variants of the same basic widebody design. The were produced at the same FAL, and has to some extent more in common than a 737 Jurassic has with a 737 MAX.


But most of your list had not been produced at the same time.
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 10:56 am

-8 won't be in production for too long.
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 11:02 am

keesje wrote:
How many 787-8's are in the backlog? The production overlap between -8 and -10 might not last for very long.

https://leehamnews.com/2016/03/21/pontifications-787-8-no-longer-favored-boeing/


Currently 89 787-8s are in the backlog.
 
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Channex757
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 11:03 am

b747400erf wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
A330-200, A330F, A330 MRTT, A330 Beluga XL, A330-300, A330 regional, A330-800neo, A330-900neo. These are different variants (certification).

One could argue that the A300, A310, and at least the A340 are different variants of the same basic widebody design. The were produced at the same FAL, and has to some extent more in common than a 737 Jurassic has with a 737 MAX.


But most of your list had not been produced at the same time.

As the first A339 has been built, only the A338 remains to be constructed. The Beluga XL is also at the stage where it is being bolted together. So all of those aircraft except the future A330-800neo are in current production.
 
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Polot
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 12:43 pm

I think by "variants" the OP meant lengths. Things like 777-200 vs 777-200ER or especially A330-300 Regional vs regular A330-300 is starting to split hairs. Might as well start breaking planes down by engine type and paper MTOWs too at that point.
 
ikramerica
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 12:55 pm

Polot wrote:
I think by "variants" the OP meant lengths. Things like 777-200 vs 777-200ER or especially A330-300 Regional vs regular A330-300 is starting to split hairs. Might as well start breaking planes down by engine type and paper MTOWs too at that point.

Then you would have so many 747 variants your head would spin. -100, -200, F, C, M, SR, SP, 3 different engine makers and engine variants...

The OP obviously meant different lengths.
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 1:02 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Polot wrote:
I think by "variants" the OP meant lengths. Things like 777-200 vs 777-200ER or especially A330-300 Regional vs regular A330-300 is starting to split hairs. Might as well start breaking planes down by engine type and paper MTOWs too at that point.

Then you would have so many 747 variants your head would spin. -100, -200, F, C, M, SR, SP, 3 different engine makers and engine variants...

The OP obviously meant different lengths.
It is hard to determine where to draw the line. The 77E and 77L are the same length, but definitely different planes. That said, is this the first time we have had three different length widebodies in production with the same wing?
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 1:13 pm

This is a milestone. Since the 777 only has two lengths until the -8/-9, it hasn't matched.
The A350 currently only has two lengths, but might gain the 1100 (the 800 is dead and won't be produced).
We did see the 767 in three lengths as already noted.

But this is an accomplishment. Let's celebrate. Now new engine PIPs and airframe PIPs always improve the economics of the larger variants more than the smaller, that is just the economics of aircraft. The days of the 787-8 are numbered. Cest la vie, we still have 3 in production in 2017.

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chiki
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 1:26 pm

Polot wrote:
I think by "variants" the OP meant lengths. Things like 777-200 vs 777-200ER or especially A330-300 Regional vs regular A330-300 is starting to split hairs. Might as well start breaking planes down by engine type and paper MTOWs too at that point.


I agree its different lengths eg 777-200/200ER/200LR have same lengths though engines, capabilities differ.
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 3:18 pm

They may, for a short while, do 777F/778/77W/779 production.

I'm fairly certain interest in the 787-8 will decrease as we go forward.
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airzona11
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Pretty cool feat for the 787. I think this is the first time that 1 airline will have operated all 3+ variants of the widebody (if going by length) family. UA, NH and BA soon will. Side note but these same airlines operate 3 777 models side by side and did 3 747 families too.

dtw2hyd wrote:
-8 won't be in production for too long.


Would Boeing prevent airlines from ordering the 788?

The 762ER had not sold in a while when CO placed their order.
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 3:23 pm

b747400erf wrote:
Not a jumbo of course but 4 models of the 737 is quite a feat. 737-600,700,800,900


And in a few years we'll have the 737 Max-7, Max-8, Max-200, Max-9 and Max-10 all in production. 5 models, now that's a feat.
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 4:09 pm

airzona11 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
-8 won't be in production for too long.


Would Boeing prevent airlines from ordering the 788?


Boeing didn't implement any of -9/-10 performance improvements in -8, effectively making it less desirable.
 
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Polot
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 4:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
-8 won't be in production for too long.


Would Boeing prevent airlines from ordering the 788?


Boeing didn't implement any of -9/-10 performance improvements in -8, effectively making it less desirable.

Well that and since they didn't implement those improvements it raises the cost to build -8 vs the -9/-10 (or you can look at it the other way, it raises the costs to build the -9/-10 but they have higher margins built into their price) as their is less commonality between the variants.

That said if an airline really wants the -8 Boeing will sell it to them and build it. Some on A.net have a tendency to use the link that Keesje posted to say that Boeing is ending -8 production after 2020 because of apparent reading comprehension problems.
 
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Fri May 05, 2017 4:54 pm

Polot wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
airzona11 wrote:


Would Boeing prevent airlines from ordering the 788?


Boeing didn't implement any of -9/-10 performance improvements in -8, effectively making it less desirable.

Well that and since they didn't implement those improvements it raises the cost to build -8 vs the -9/-10 (or you can look at it the other way, it raises the costs to build the -9/-10 but they have higher margins built into their price) as their is less commonality between the variants.

That said if an airline really wants the -8 Boeing will sell it to them and build it. Some on A.net have a tendency to use the link that Keesje posted to say that Boeing is ending -8 production after 2020 because of apparent reading comprehension problems.
While I don't think anyone thinks the 788 is going to be a large volume seller in the future, it is not dead yet. It's last order was just over a month ago.
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neutrino
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Sat May 06, 2017 5:54 am

airzona11 wrote:
Pretty cool feat for the 787. I think this is the first time that 1 airline will have operated all 3+ variants of the widebody (if going by length) family. UA, NH and BA soon will.

And maybe Scoot too.
They are currently operating both the -8 and -9.
Parent SQ has 30 -10s on the books, with 19 more (excluding 6 options) to be firmed up pretty soon, if not already.
Hopefully a few or more of that large number will go to Scoot.
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b747400erf
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Sat May 06, 2017 8:24 am

BartSimpson wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
Not a jumbo of course but 4 models of the 737 is quite a feat. 737-600,700,800,900


The OP was specifically referring to widebody frames.

The first reply mentioned the CRJ and I added what I explained was not a widebody to that. Not difficult.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Sat May 06, 2017 1:37 pm

Polot wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
airzona11 wrote:


Would Boeing prevent airlines from ordering the 788?


Boeing didn't implement any of -9/-10 performance improvements in -8, effectively making it less desirable.

Well that and since they didn't implement those improvements it raises the cost to build -8 vs the -9/-10 (or you can look at it the other way, it raises the costs to build the -9/-10 but they have higher margins built into their price) as their is less commonality between the variants.

That said if an airline really wants the -8 Boeing will sell it to them and build it. Some on A.net have a tendency to use the link that Keesje posted to say that Boeing is ending -8 production after 2020 because of apparent reading comprehension problems.


Order book is not showing any sign of interest from airlines. It is probably not up to spec in both weight and reliability and -9 and -10 are better alternatives. It may not have much resale value either. Nothing to do with English comprehension.
 
Arion640
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Sat May 06, 2017 3:32 pm

From someone with a little bit less knowledge on the 787 compared to some.

What performance improvements do the 9 and 10 have that the 8 doesn't?
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Re: 787 will soon have 3 Variants of Widebody Aircraft Being Produced

Sat May 06, 2017 5:45 pm

intotheair wrote:
Some I can think of:

767. CO took delivery of 767-200ERs and -400ERs at about the same time, also not to mention that other airlines were still getting -300ERs.

The A340 was produced in four different lengths. There was a period when Airbus was building A343s, A345s, and A346s at the same time, though production of the A342 ended long before.

Also, the CRJ has had several models in production at once (and I suppose it theoretically still does). I'm not sure when the last CRJ-100/200 was built, but the 700, 900, and 1000 were/are produced concurrently and are still available for order.

Since people are throwing in RJs, we can also add the EMB 135/140/145/145XR (the last one is still a 145 on paper, but a much more robust airframe with external differences), and the E-jets.
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