Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 8:47 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Baggage fee. I went on the UA homepage and could not find how that UA agent managed to calculate 300 USD bag fee for a single flight New Orleans to San Francisco. One extra 70 lbs bag at 300 USD from New Orleans to San Francisco?
Is here on this thread somebody from UA that could tell us how the Gate Agent got to 300 USD? 125 I imagine is high. One does see the bag, the normal over sized monster bag travelers from the USA move around the whole world, but 300 USD?

The gate agent was wrong. The given reason for canceling the ticket and removing the passenger out of her sight was pure nonsense. If she wants to deny boarding because, to her judgement the customer is intoxicated, she should say so, especially when she is on camera.

The shit storm here in regards to the passenger is not understandable. There are wildly imaginative explanation how the customer just has to be wrong.
The simple truth is, there was a gate agent with serious overreach regarding her authority. It would also be interesting to know how the law enforcement removes the person on her say so only.


You might have missed the comment/explanation a few posts back.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
dc10co
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:41 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 8:55 am

[quote="mjoelnir"]Baggage fee. I went on the UA homepage and could not find how that UA agent managed to calculate 300 USD bag fee for a single flight New Orleans to San Francisco. One extra 70 lbs bag at 300 USD from New Orleans to San Francisco?
Is here on this thread somebody from UA that could tell us how the Gate Agent got to 300 USD? 125 I imagine is high. One does see the bag, the normal over sized monster bag travelers from the USA move around the whole world, but 300 USD?[\quote]

Clearly listed on the UA website.

https://mobile.united.com/BagFee/Additi ... mPage=AFBF
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9428
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 8:58 am

flyguy89 wrote:
ILUVDC10S wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Did you watch the video?

Yes I did .
Okay so do we not have bars at airports ?
Do we stop selling liquid courage on planes ? FYI Loss of revenue for profits
And yes its New Orleans MSY was this during Mardi Gras? those bars are open almost round the clock aint they ?
And what about in DEN do they do THC tests before people enter the terminal for intoxication ?

Okay so what do any of those things have to do with the fact that public intoxication is a misdemeanor crime for which airlines are required by law to deny transport?


Because that was not the given reason for canceling the ticket and throwing him out of the airport. She cleanly stated he would not fly before he erased the video.
Or do you say the gate agent was lying when videotaped given the reason for canceling his ticket being his videotaping?

The intoxication is an excuse after the fact, gobbled up here on a.net without any reflection.

Instead of throwing a fit about being taped, she should, being on tape, have calmly explained why she was charging 300 USD, mentioning the bag being over 70 lbs or to big or whatever. Instead she got herself plainly in the wrong.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:19 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Instead of throwing a fit about being taped, she should, being on tape, have calmly explained why she was charging 300 USD, mentioning the bag being over 70 lbs or to big or whatever. Instead she got herself plainly in the wrong.


You mean, like her co-worker had already tried doing? You mean, like she said she'd do when she was done helping the first customer but he kept interrupting? And he was clearly intoxicated which automatically makes it more stressful.

You criticize folks for not seeing the correct picture, yet you glaze over everything else and focus in on her issue with him filming her. He escalated it. Then escalated it some more. Then escalated it further. But because she didn't say all the right things in all the right tones, she's the bad guy.

You are nothing if not entertaining.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:26 am

The Headline caught my Attention, from what it reads it could have been that someone had an issue with his/her mother iin law. Could we agree on a "better English" campaign? :-)
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
bwest
Posts: 1134
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:54 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 10:12 am

dc10co wrote:
It's so easy for people to play Monday morning quarterback online after watching a short video and say "she's a disgrace" or "deserves to be fired" when in actuality you have no idea who this person is as an individual, you just place them into your cookie cutter mold of "another bitter airline employee". But maybe when you sit behind the veil of your computer screen you should take a moment and realize that this person is an actual human being too, and think about what you would say if you knew this person on a personal level.

hear hear!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 10:44 am

For a guy who is drunk and awake at 3AM , he has very stable hands. He is cognitive enough to know the difference between $125 and $300.

On the other hand lady needs to cut down on coffee, switch to decaf.
All posts are just opinions.
 
TerminalD
Topic Author
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:13 am

So, here's the problem for UA. The agent didn't say I'm cancelling your ticket because you are drunk, she said I'm cancelling your ticket unless you stop filming me. That's the problem. That makes the entire discussion about whether he was drunk moot. In fact, it's worse. It means that she was perfectly willing to ignore the rules of boarding a drunk passenger as long as he didn't film her. That's where the problem is.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:28 am

Here is a training video Munoz can distribute to his employees on how to react if someone is recording them.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/v ... ji1ejVm003
All posts are just opinions.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5018
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 12:09 pm

Anything with United is going to be picked up by the media these days.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 25604
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 12:40 pm

laser1180 wrote:
I do have to say, with today's flying culture, I always be careful of what I say in public. The other day I had to deny some non-rev into first class cabin because of his dress code, I had to be very specific "Sir, since you are flying on a buddy pass and our company dress code requires you to have a collar shift to be in our first class cabin, do you have one? If not, no problem, you will be cleared in coach cabin". JUST in case someone is recording..


Yes, a clear explanation of what the policy is and how it's being followed is the right thing to do. Not sure why this would not be considered part of the job, instead it seems to be considered going the extra mile. And yes, that means having front line staff that both understands and can communicate the policies, not just say "the computer says you owe $325".

Trust me, I have sympathy for those in customer facing roles having to be the ones to extract every single last dollar, or foist every possible inconvenience onto travelers so they have no choice but cough up the last dollar, but that's what happens when the executive class makes the kinds of policies we see these days. In order to avoid these PR nightmares the airlines need to pay and train the front line employees a lot better, or make the policies a lot simpler.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
mcdu
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 12:55 pm

jumbojet wrote:
antoniemey wrote:
[
Umm, did you watch the video?

My assumption, based on the claims he made, is that on the way there the agent only charged him for the over 50lb overweight cost while the bag was actually over 70lbs... or it was near 70lbs going and tipped over by things he was bringing back.


Even still, how does slurring ones words equate into the cancellation of a ticket? You have failed to articulate how slurred words can cause a scene which leads to a ticket being cancelled. Total fail on UA's part but hey, great job team!! :roll:



Slurred words are a good indication of intoxication. Adding belligerence to the slurring and it is quiet possible the gentleman was unfit for transportation. The agent perhaps prevented even more problems if this person was allowed onboard the aircraft.

If a delta pilot can open handed slap a passenger and be commended for that act this should put the agent in the CSR hall of fame.... also she didn't do a Delta and threaten to have his kids sent to foster care.
 
User avatar
Blimpie
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 1:10 pm

Said it before and will say it again; it will come to a point where personnel working with customers are going to need to start wearing body cameras. I'm sure the truth lies between column A and column B.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 1:32 pm

mcdu wrote:
Slurred words are a good indication of intoxication. Adding belligerence to the slurring and it is quiet possible the gentleman was unfit for transportation. The agent perhaps prevented even more problems if this person was allowed onboard the aircraft.


Based on the video you will have tough time to prove he is unfit for transportation.

He conducted himself very well with agent and law enforcement. He was not the one screaming.
His hands were not shaking.
He remembered what he paid earlier.
He is aware UA is charging more ($325 is greater than $125).
He followed cops instructions.
He used escalator on his own with his oversized bag.

Even slightly damp clothes increases weight significantly. A good agent would have explained the weight, size and charges. She is not one of them. Just make sure she doesn't delete the video on her phone, because she will be subpoenaed.

She planted the word "irate" in cops mind and they ran with it.

Anybody comes between UA and a $1 is not irate and belligerent.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15764
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Smart phones have video stabilization these days so the videos quality is improved from moving vehicles on undulating surfaces.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
VC10er
Posts: 4293
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 2:20 pm

It's all so sad and depressing for me. I see it everywhere. I just witnessed a horrible situation with a pax and Amtrak. Everybody is covered with itching powder and we are suffering from a general loss of decorum - (In my OPINION). I am not going to take sides here...it's more about how things have devolved. Like the brawl at Spirit and screaming at the dry cleaner...Ive seen that too.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
United1
Posts: 4239
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 2:44 pm

VC10er wrote:
It's all so sad and depressing for me. I see it everywhere. I just witnessed a horrible situation with a pax and Amtrak. Everybody is covered with itching powder and we are suffering from a general loss of decorum - (In my OPINION). I am not going to take sides here...it's more about how things have devolved. Like the brawl at Spirit and screaming at the dry cleaner...Ive seen that too.


There was even a fight on WN Sunday...not sure whats gotten into everyone lately but I agree with you entirely that peoples manners, common sense and patience have just devolved.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/10/us/fight- ... index.html
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 2:53 pm

One other thing overlooked here is that very Ticket agent is being videotaped by MSY itself is she going to refuse to work until the video cameras overhead are removed? Not a very observant worker in my view . So is MSY breaking her so called No filming of United people huh? And this is why airlines should NOT be charging for passenger bags period ! This in my opinion is a scheme to pad pockets of upper management and those on Wall Street nothing more . Do you get extra services for that additional charges uh NO . In fact you run a 50/50 chance of your bag or its contents being damaged ruined or stolen so how is baggage fees beneficial to the passenger? I see zero none zilch nada!
Sure he may have been intoxicated Yes that is against the law I get that when you are in public. Wonders how many airline passengers have reservations cancelled in CUN/LAS/SJU/MBJ/LAX/DEN for being intoxicated since booze flows freely there like Niagara Falls ! Must be some empty flights on the return huh ? If UA wants no taping or photos taken then ORD - EGV must make the change and enact it systemwide . I guarantee you this they will be innoudated with tons of calls from the airline spotting and airport and aviation nuts there are many people who do this to record history, for enjoyment and some for profit.
 
s4popo
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:36 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 2:53 pm

grbauc wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Did nobody watch the entire video? The man was removed from the terminal for being jntoxicated. Not sure why this is United's fault.


Its seems most people would rather be outraged.. If there were more employees to run the front lines instead of the bare bones staffing on flight and at check in and boarding. But for that we need higher fares and people just don't want that. I get it that agents and power trips gets old. Its seems to be more prevalent due to minimum staffing?


Really? Higher fares would solve this problem? I got an idea... how about the airlines subtracting a few thousand $ from their record billion dolllar profits to adequately staff their stations?

I think this type of behavior is prevalent for multiple reasons, with minimum staffing being one of them. How about the reduced seat pitch? How about passengers being herded around like cattle (some of this blame goes to TSA.) How about passengers running to the front of the line so they can get onboard and stow their carry-ons (guess who conditioned that behavior?) How about the ridiculous bag fees? (I understand the bag in this example was over sized and overweight, but is $325 the suitable and proportional fee/penalty?)
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2291
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 2:57 pm

This type of behavior has been around ever since I took my first flight in 1965. Douches are everywhere. I thank this agent for keeping this douche off the plane. I have sat beside these guys. Awful trips each and every one of them.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9428
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:01 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Instead of throwing a fit about being taped, she should, being on tape, have calmly explained why she was charging 300 USD, mentioning the bag being over 70 lbs or to big or whatever. Instead she got herself plainly in the wrong.


You mean, like her co-worker had already tried doing? You mean, like she said she'd do when she was done helping the first customer but he kept interrupting? And he was clearly intoxicated which automatically makes it more stressful.

You criticize folks for not seeing the correct picture, yet you glaze over everything else and focus in on her issue with him filming her. He escalated it. Then escalated it some more. Then escalated it further. But because she didn't say all the right things in all the right tones, she's the bad guy.

You are nothing if not entertaining.


And you seem to be a joker.

If somebody films you doing your work, you behave in a way that clearly puts yourself in the wrong, like being pissed off about being taped, or do you behave in a way, that that video can in no way way be used against yourself, because you show that you are cool, you give the right information and are the best customer service agent you can find.

You would of course choose the way to display yourself, that you would give a good reasons on the video to be fired.
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:11 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Slurred words are a good indication of intoxication. Adding belligerence to the slurring and it is quiet possible the gentleman was unfit for transportation. The agent perhaps prevented even more problems if this person was allowed onboard the aircraft.


Based on the video you will have tough time to prove he is unfit for transportation.

He conducted himself very well with agent and law enforcement. He was not the one screaming.
His hands were not shaking.
He remembered what he paid earlier.
He is aware UA is charging more ($325 is greater than $125).
He followed cops instructions.
He used escalator on his own with his oversized bag.

Even slightly damp clothes increases weight significantly. A good agent would have explained the weight, size and charges. She is not one of them. Just make sure she doesn't delete the video on her phone, because she will be subpoenaed.

She planted the word "irate" in cops mind and they ran with it.

Anybody comes between UA and a $1 is not irate and belligerent.


SPOT ON!
The passenger would have got on board and most likely fell flat asleep for the duration of the flight since he was out parting so there would have been no safety risk to crew period. He would have been a model passenger for a FA get on board go to sleep less work for the FA right ...
When you saw that segway did you not think Paul Blarrt Mall Cop LOL
And yes it seemed to me he was walking okay for the most part .
lack of sleep can cause you to be a bit wobbly too .
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:18 pm

s4popo wrote:
grbauc wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Did nobody watch the entire video? The man was removed from the terminal for being jntoxicated. Not sure why this is United's fault.


Its seems most people would rather be outraged.. If there were more employees to run the front lines instead of the bare bones staffing on flight and at check in and boarding. But for that we need higher fares and people just don't want that. I get it that agents and power trips gets old. Its seems to be more prevalent due to minimum staffing?


Really? Higher fares would solve this problem? I got an idea... how about the airlines subtracting a few thousand $ from their record billion dolllar profits to adequately staff their stations?

I think this type of behavior is prevalent for multiple reasons, with minimum staffing being one of them. How about the reduced seat pitch? How about passengers being herded around like cattle (some of this blame goes to TSA.) How about passengers running to the front of the line so they can get onboard and stow their carry-ons (guess who conditioned that behavior?) How about the ridiculous bag fees? (I understand the bag in this example was over sized and overweight, but is $325 the suitable and proportional fee/penalty?)

SPOT ON !
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Slurred words are a good indication of intoxication. Adding belligerence to the slurring and it is quiet possible the gentleman was unfit for transportation. The agent perhaps prevented even more problems if this person was allowed onboard the aircraft.


Based on the video you will have tough time to prove he is unfit for transportation.

He conducted himself very well with agent and law enforcement. He was not the one screaming.
His hands were not shaking.
He remembered what he paid earlier.
He is aware UA is charging more ($325 is greater than $125).
He followed cops instructions.
He used escalator on his own with his oversized bag.

Even slightly damp clothes increases weight significantly. A good agent would have explained the weight, size and charges. She is not one of them. Just make sure she doesn't delete the video on her phone, because she will be subpoenaed.

She planted the word "irate" in cops mind and they ran with it.

Anybody comes between UA and a $1 is not irate and belligerent.

Oh I don't think you'll have a tough time at all based on the video. Law enforcement described the guy as staggering, being loud and wreaking of alcohol to which the guy's first answer the officer's question of whether or not he had been drinking was, "Obviously." The fact of the matter is that the guy wasn't conducting himself very well at all. He was loud and belligerent, continuously tried to talk over the police and had a hard time comprehending a very straightforward conversation.

mjoelnir wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Instead of throwing a fit about being taped, she should, being on tape, have calmly explained why she was charging 300 USD, mentioning the bag being over 70 lbs or to big or whatever. Instead she got herself plainly in the wrong.


You mean, like her co-worker had already tried doing? You mean, like she said she'd do when she was done helping the first customer but he kept interrupting? And he was clearly intoxicated which automatically makes it more stressful.

You criticize folks for not seeing the correct picture, yet you glaze over everything else and focus in on her issue with him filming her. He escalated it. Then escalated it some more. Then escalated it further. But because she didn't say all the right things in all the right tones, she's the bad guy.

You are nothing if not entertaining.


And you seem to be a joker.

If somebody films you doing your work, you behave in a way that clearly puts yourself in the wrong, like being pissed off about being taped, or do you behave in a way, that that video can in no way way be used against yourself, because you show that you are cool, you give the right information and are the best customer service agent you can find.

You would of course choose the way to display yourself, that you would give a good reasons on the video to be fired.

The fact of the matter is, we don't really know what happened. There's a whole stretch of time before the video and off-camera that we're not witness to. We don't know what interaction took place between the passenger and the manager, or what phone conversations took place. I find it hard to believe they didn't notice his drunkenness given the way he was speaking on the video and how the LEO was describing his behavior. It's equally as likely they were already going to deny him boarding for being intoxicated, but decided to leave confronting him about it to the police given how drunk people usually react to being told they're drunk. It's telling that the officer clearly, without batting an eye, communicated that UA was denying him boarding for being intoxicated.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:25 pm

Also the passenger posted that he had been out for drinks before the flight. As was pointed out above UA cant board a passenger who is intoxicated...


Had that been the reason for the cancellation/denied boarding/whatever, then I think you'd be right. However, the agent said the ticket was canceled due to the taping. Therefore, whether he was intoxicated or not is irrelevant. The ticket was canceled for the taping, therefore UAL has to respond to that issue.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15764
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:40 pm

The ticket was not cancelled, just the check in process.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:41 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Oh I don't think you'll have a tough time at all based on the video. Law enforcement described the guy as staggering, being loud and wreaking of alcohol to which the guy's first answer the officer's question of whether or not he had been drinking was, "Obviously." The fact of the matter is that the guy wasn't conducting himself very well at all. He was loud and belligerent, continuously tried to talk over the police and had a hard time comprehending a very straightforward conversation. .


That is your opinion. Obviously cop is setting stage for an arrest, based on agent's comments. Get the agent some refresher training or a new job.

Here are few videos of drunk passengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexz_SjANno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLo_ukjBNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FElfCVkKZCM
All posts are just opinions.
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 3:59 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Oh I don't think you'll have a tough time at all based on the video. Law enforcement described the guy as staggering, being loud and wreaking of alcohol to which the guy's first answer the officer's question of whether or not he had been drinking was, "Obviously." The fact of the matter is that the guy wasn't conducting himself very well at all. He was loud and belligerent, continuously tried to talk over the police and had a hard time comprehending a very straightforward conversation. .


That is your opinion. Obviously cop is setting stage for an arrest, based on agent's comments. Get the agent some refresher training or a new job.

Here are few videos of drunk passengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexz_SjANno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLo_ukjBNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FElfCVkKZCM

Of course he was. thats why the second officer came on scene I am sure a third or fourth soon to follow itching for a takedown.
Transfer her to the ramp for 6 months in that hot wet sponge weather of MSY hopefully she returns with a better attitude.
will PM you with a situation I had with a UA Agent in PVD
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 4:22 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Oh I don't think you'll have a tough time at all based on the video. Law enforcement described the guy as staggering, being loud and wreaking of alcohol to which the guy's first answer the officer's question of whether or not he had been drinking was, "Obviously." The fact of the matter is that the guy wasn't conducting himself very well at all. He was loud and belligerent, continuously tried to talk over the police and had a hard time comprehending a very straightforward conversation. .


That is your opinion. Obviously cop is setting stage for an arrest, based on agent's comments. Get the agent some refresher training or a new job.

Here are few videos of drunk passengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexz_SjANno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLo_ukjBNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FElfCVkKZCM

Which is also incidentally your opinion/speculation since you don't know what conversations occurred before and off-camera. I think the video speaks volumes on its own and clearly indicates what most reasonable people would consider intoxicated behavior.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 4:36 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Which is also incidentally your opinion/speculation since you don't know what conversations occurred before and off-camera. I think the video speaks volumes on its own and clearly indicates what most reasonable people would consider intoxicated behavior.


I don't need to know. She is the one pacing, pulling her jacket and exhibiting agressive in your face behavior. He didn't move an inch and walked out of terminal without any incident.

BTW, try going down escalator with 70+ pound bag and holding phone taping the cop with one hand, drunk or otherwise.

She had no clue about public place taping rule, but tried to enforce her opinion.

Also at no point in 6 minutes, she told that he has been denied boarding for intoxication, she actually told he will be flying he deletes the video and pays $325.

Her colleague or subordinate didn't call cops on her request, she has to call on her own, speaks volumes.
All posts are just opinions.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 4:38 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Which is also incidentally your opinion/speculation since you don't know what conversations occurred before and off-camera. I think the video speaks volumes on its own and clearly indicates what most reasonable people would consider intoxicated behavior.


I don't need to know.

And I think that tells us about all we need to know about you.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6278
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 4:41 pm

Got to hand it to a.net for postings on things no one has the full story on.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8628
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 4:47 pm

If anybody ever stuck a camera in my face in my past or present jobs, I would tell them to shove it somewhere the sun don't shine. This out-to-get everyone mentality needs to stop.
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2639
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 4:55 pm

I think the so-called analyst on the news report who says "he can tape anything he wants" is completely wrong......I agree that people should be free to record any "general" scene inside an airport without restriction.....provided there are no signs restricting recordings.....but to specifically point a camera at someone and record that person.....that crosses the line....you do need to take someone's permission to point a camera at him/her and start recording....whatever the purpose...
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15764
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:11 pm

The other aspect people forget is that in a lot of places you can take images in plublic places, you can get into a lot of hot water if you don't have everyone's permission to record audio. That agent was on the phone a fair amount of time, and he was recording the conversation without their consent. They made it very clear they did not have the consent to record. You can record the audio of a public officer like the police officer, but the gate agent is not a public officer.

From http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide

Louisiana
Summary of statute(s): Louisiana’s Elec- tronic Surveillance Act bars the recording, interception, use or disclosure of any oral or telephonic communication by means of any mechanical or electronic device with- out the consent of at least one party to the conversation. The state also prohibits the recording and disclosure of images inter- cepted in violation of its video voyeurism laws. Violators can face both civil and crim- inal penalties.
In-person conversations: A person can- not overhear or tape a private conversation to which that person is not openly present and participating or listening, unless con- sent to record is given by at least one of the parties to the conversation. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1303.
Electronic communications: Similarly,
the statute prohibits the willful interception of any telephone or wire communication absent the consent of at least one party to the communication. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1303.
Hidden cameras: The state’s video voy- eurism law bars the use of any type of hidden camera to observe or record a person where that person has not consented if the record- ing “is for a lewd or lascivious purpose.” La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:283.
Criminal penalties: A violation of the state’s eavesdropping law, whether by recording or disclosing the contents of a communication without proper consent, carries a prison sentence of up to 10 years of hard labor and a $10,000 ne. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1303. Violation of the state’s video voyeurism law can be punishable by a prison sentence anywhere from two to 10 years of hard labor and a court ne. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:283(B).
Civil suits: Anyone whose con dential communications are intercepted, disclosed or used in violation of the state’s eavesdrop- ping law may recover in a civil suit the pay- ment of actual and punitive damages, attor- ney fees and other litigation costs. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1312.
Disclosing recordings: Louisiana bars the transfer by e-mail, the Internet or a commercial online service any photo or lm images obtained in violation of the state’s video voyeurism law. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:283(A). The state also bars the disclosure or use of the contents of any oral or elec- tronic communication either knowing or having reason to know it was intercepted in violation of the state’s eavesdropping laws. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1303.
Last edited by zeke on Wed May 10, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:16 pm

antoniemey wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Even still, how does slurring ones words equate into the cancellation of a ticket?


If the agent believes a passenger to be intoxicated they cannot allow them to check in. The check in process has already started and is thus cancelled. The itinerary for that day can also be "cancelled" while leaving the ticket available for later use. Without being there to see what was on the screen, I couldn't tell you what exact context the term "cancel" was used in, but I'd bet it wasn't a full on "you have no ticket" because short of manually marking the ticket segment used or putting in a refund request, agents don't have the access to do that.


Right, but the agent specifically said on camera that she was cancelling it because the customer filmed her without her permission.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:30 pm

There are thousands of cameras installed at any airport. Anyone saying that their privacy is being violated are dreaming.

It is a public place, not UA's property. He has the right to tape, Sheriff's Deputy confirmed twice on tape. If I read correctly most wide bodies have cameras installed in the cabin.

Why should anyone trust the report police prepared with the help of UA corporate security and the agent herself. System is rigged to help themselves. Would they release tapes without years of legal process. No
All posts are just opinions.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:31 pm

The ticket was not cancelled, just the check in process.


Respectfully, semantics. Since he wasn't allowed to check in and board, his ticket was for all intents and purposes, cancelled. We can argue the precise legal definition but cancellation is how the average guy on the street would read this. Toss in calling the cops on him which was a clear and not so ambiguous "suggestion" to clear out, yeah, "cancelled" is a good word. Since his reservation wasn't going to be honored, his ticket was worthless, certainly for that particular flight.
 
United1
Posts: 4239
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:37 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Why should anyone trust the report police prepared with the help of UA corporate security and the agent herself. System is rigged to help themselves. Would they release tapes without years of legal process. No


Actually video gets released very easily...generally all it takes is a request from law enforcement or a rather easy to get court order.

I also will take the word of two cops over a drunk guy any day of the week...I also am more than capable of coming to my own opinion, from watching the tape, that he was completely drunk and in no shape to do anything but sleep it off.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
hvusslax
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:42 pm

Shoving a cell phone camera in someone's face is fine because public places have CCTV?
 
United1
Posts: 4239
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:44 pm

tlecam wrote:
antoniemey wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Even still, how does slurring ones words equate into the cancellation of a ticket?


If the agent believes a passenger to be intoxicated they cannot allow them to check in. The check in process has already started and is thus cancelled. The itinerary for that day can also be "cancelled" while leaving the ticket available for later use. Without being there to see what was on the screen, I couldn't tell you what exact context the term "cancel" was used in, but I'd bet it wasn't a full on "you have no ticket" because short of manually marking the ticket segment used or putting in a refund request, agents don't have the access to do that.


Right, but the agent specifically said on camera that she was cancelling it because the customer filmed her without her permission.


Yeah and she should not have said it that way...a better way would simply to have told the passenger they were denying him boarding at this time and rebooking him for a later flight. What we don't know is what happened before he started recording...quite frankly both parties made a bit of an ass of themselves. I will say that dealing with drunks, especially obnoxious drunks, is never easy and while she should not have reacted that way, provoke anyone enough and you will get a reaction that is completely out of character for that person.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15764
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:44 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Since he wasn't allowed to check in and board, his ticket was for all intents and purposes, cancelled.


He didn't pay the fee for his bag to the first agent, then went to the second agent and interrupted her whilst she was serving another customer. Still didn't pay the fee, decided to record her whilst she was on the phone instead or arranging payment. I saw no attempt for him to take cash or a credit card out to pay. They gave him more than a reasonable amount of time to pay with two different agents.

The checkin process cannot be completed until the fee is paid to add the bag to the passengers record, baggage does not fly unattended.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 5:49 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Instead of throwing a fit about being taped, she should, being on tape, have calmly explained why she was charging 300 USD, mentioning the bag being over 70 lbs or to big or whatever. Instead she got herself plainly in the wrong.


You mean, like her co-worker had already tried doing? You mean, like she said she'd do when she was done helping the first customer but he kept interrupting? And he was clearly intoxicated which automatically makes it more stressful.

You criticize folks for not seeing the correct picture, yet you glaze over everything else and focus in on her issue with him filming her. He escalated it. Then escalated it some more. Then escalated it further. But because she didn't say all the right things in all the right tones, she's the bad guy.

You are nothing if not entertaining.


And you seem to be a joker.

If somebody films you doing your work, you behave in a way that clearly puts yourself in the wrong, like being pissed off about being taped, or do you behave in a way, that that video can in no way way be used against yourself, because you show that you are cool, you give the right information and are the best customer service agent you can find.

You would of course choose the way to display yourself, that you would give a good reasons on the video to be fired.


Again, you miss the point. It isn't that she performed admirably, it's that the customer was an ass who was not going to be happy until the world stopped and appeased him. He_escalated_it. He_escalated_it_again. She obviously handled it poorly. The point many of us make - yet again - is that it's possible that both of them made errors, but you choose to take one side every single time. If you are only able to be waiting for the Gotcha! moment then you will always miss the rest of the story.

The phone being in her face, him interrupting her, her feeling pressure that perhaps she'd not encountered before - that all is part of the picture of being human. But to some it's all about the Gotcha! moment. It doesn't matter what played into it - it only matters that we Gotcha! on camera snapping. Well congratulations Mr. Humanity.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 6:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Slurred words are a good indication of intoxication. Adding belligerence to the slurring and it is quiet possible the gentleman was unfit for transportation. The agent perhaps prevented even more problems if this person was allowed onboard the aircraft.


Based on the video you will have tough time to prove he is unfit for transportation.

He conducted himself very well with agent and law enforcement. He was not the one screaming.
His hands were not shaking.
He remembered what he paid earlier.
He is aware UA is charging more ($325 is greater than $125).
He followed cops instructions.
He used escalator on his own with his oversized bag.

Even slightly damp clothes increases weight significantly. A good agent would have explained the weight, size and charges. She is not one of them. Just make sure she doesn't delete the video on her phone, because she will be subpoenaed.

She planted the word "irate" in cops mind and they ran with it.

Anybody comes between UA and a $1 is not irate and belligerent.


1. He conducted himself well once on camera - that doesn't mean he wasn't an absolute terror before he decided to whip out his phone, straighten his shirt, and turn into another Jeckyll and Hyde idiot.

2. He remembered what he'd paid earlier and is aware he's being charged more - means what actually? Plenty of drunks find their way home, perform complex tasks, etc. It is their judgment that is impaired as much as anything.

3. Him following cops instructions shows even more that he thought he could bully the gate agents but once the cops arrived he mellowed out.

4. You say a good agent would have explained all the charges - apparently they already had, but this guy wasn't having any of that. Just because they don't have this in HD for your personal analysis doesn't mean that you know all the facts.

In most of these cases I try to picture myself or a family member in each person's shoes. If my son was the drunk idiot and my daughter was the gate agent, I'd probably want to pound my son for being such a jerk. I'd coach my daughter but at the end of the day, she didn't go looking for trouble - he did.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 6:09 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If anybody ever stuck a camera in my face in my past or present jobs, I would tell them to shove it somewhere the sun don't shine. This out-to-get everyone mentality needs to stop.


I'd probably go into a sort of Cindy Brady/Baton Rouge moment and just freeze-frame stare at the camera. At least I wouldn't be caught saying anything wrong. lol
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
slider
Posts: 7687
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 6:23 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
I think the so-called analyst on the news report who says "he can tape anything he wants" is completely wrong......I agree that people should be free to record any "general" scene inside an airport without restriction.....provided there are no signs restricting recordings.....but to specifically point a camera at someone and record that person.....that crosses the line....you do need to take someone's permission to point a camera at him/her and start recording....whatever the purpose...


No you do not. Not in a public area you don't.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8835
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 6:36 pm

He didn't put camera in her face. There are counters and kiosks between them. A CCTV camera can really get into your face. There is a concerted effort to prove he is wasted and unfit to fly and employees/cops are always right. You guys enjoyed for 16 years, can't face the reality party is coming to an end.

What a shame, using aviation safety as tool to promote personal power trip ego.
All posts are just opinions.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 6:41 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
He didn't put camera in her face. There are counters and kiosks between them. A CCTV camera can really get into your face. There is a concerted effort to prove he is wasted and unfit to fly and employees/cops are always right. You guys enjoyed for 16 years, can't face the reality party is coming to an end.

What a shame, using aviation safety as tool to promote personal power trip ego.


No, he didn't literally "put the camera in her face" - are we going to be that pedantic here?

Nobody needs to prove anything - he proved it by his behavior and his words. Wait, maybe I misunderstood? Perhaps you meant the power trip the customer was on by whipping out his cellphone, interrupting employees, arguing rather than taking responsibility..... Lol, I know, that'll never happen. :-)

If you think working for an airline and dealing with this crap day in and day out is a party, you are absolutely out of touch. IMHO, and with all due respect.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 7:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
He didn't put camera in her face. There are counters and kiosks between them. A CCTV camera can really get into your face. There is a concerted effort to prove he is wasted and unfit to fly and employees/cops are always right. You guys enjoyed for 16 years, can't face the reality party is coming to an end.

What a shame, using aviation safety as tool to promote personal power trip ego.

Fortunately no conspiring is necessary since the guy decided to record a 13-minute live-stream of his drunkenness.
 
jakubz
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 7:15 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
There is a concerted effort to prove he is wasted and unfit to fly .....


By who, the guy himself?
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of SA!
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320, A380, 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

My comment are my own. I don't speak for any company.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos