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Bald1983
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 8:11 pm

jumbojet wrote:
MesaFlyGuy wrote:
the passenger was causing a scene, slurring his words.


you deducted this how? The article made no mention of him slurring words and even if he was, even if he was, so what. When did slurring words become grounds for cancelling a ticket? Again, UA is wrong and obviously, they have not learned a thing since Dr. Dao. Quite frankly, why anyone flies UA anymore is beyond me.

Next, how was the passenger causing a scene, what did he exactly do that caused a scene, breaking out his cell phone and recording? Nice try but not enough.

Lets see Oscar's response, bet it will go something like, 'Team, great job cancelling that passengers ticket. The passenger was rude, discourteous and was slurring his words. I stand behind you 100%, great work team!!!! :roll:
Actually, the company is apologizing. The agent needs to be fired. UAL needs to make it right.
 
ScottB
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 8:48 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Nobody needs to prove anything - he proved it by his behavior and his words. Wait, maybe I misunderstood? Perhaps you meant the power trip the customer was on by whipping out his cellphone, interrupting employees, arguing rather than taking responsibility..... Lol, I know, that'll never happen. :-)

If you think working for an airline and dealing with this crap day in and day out is a party, you are absolutely out of touch. IMHO, and with all due respect.


I've worked in customer service and I've had to deal with both bad & good customers. Even if you're dealing with an obnoxious customer, you still have to follow policy and not wig out. Refusing to check the guy in because he was intoxicated would have been perfectly reasonable and, in fact, probably required by Federal regulations. Refusing to check in the passenger because he wouldn't pay the bag fee again would be reasonable and in keeping with the airline's policy. But that's not what the agent did. If you know you're on camera (and these days that's probably a good assumption in any customer-facing activity) then you just keep your cool and stick to the book. Maybe that's easier said than done, but it's also part of the job description. You definitely don't go on a power trip and refuse service because you don't like being filmed without permission.
 
manny
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:02 pm

United needs to first of all have a 5 minute video sent out to all its employees showing them how their salaries are paid. This is getting ridiculous.

This is a another shocking example of how how airline employees and Law enforcement gang up against passengers. She did never brought up she was refusing him entry because he was intoxicated. She was very upset at only one thing that he was recording her which he had every right to do. Now because she is unjustifiably upset she calls the cops. Than the LEO essentially makes an excuse for the check in agent saying they are not allowing him because he is intoxicated, does not want to listen to the passengers side of the story and throws him out of the airport without allowing him to make alternate arrangements. The assumption in the system is the passenger is always wrong and every move is made to inconvenience the passenger if they as much as do anything that can upset the over sensitive people who are on a power trip.

The fact that people come here and try to defend this indefensible behavior just shows this woman is not just one bad apple. That they are rotten to the core. Airline employees seriously need a gut check. If they do not like interacting with people they should find another line of work instead of inconveniencing passengers.
 
dc10co
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:38 pm

manny wrote:
United needs to first of all have a 5 minute video sent out to all its employees showing them how their salaries are paid. This is getting ridiculous.

This is a another shocking example of how how airline employees and Law enforcement gang up against passengers. She did never brought up she was refusing him entry because he was intoxicated. She was very upset at only one thing that he was recording her which he had every right to do. Now because she is unjustifiably upset she calls the cops. Than the LEO essentially makes an excuse for the check in agent saying they are not allowing him because he is intoxicated, does not want to listen to the passengers side of the story and throws him out of the airport without allowing him to make alternate arrangements. The assumption in the system is the passenger is always wrong and every move is made to inconvenience the passenger if they as much as do anything that can upset the over sensitive people who are on a power trip.

The fact that people come here and try to defend this indefensible behavior just shows this woman is not just one bad apple. That they are rotten to the core. Airline employees seriously need a gut check. If they do not like interacting with people they should find another line of work instead of inconveniencing passengers.


Well gee, let's see...there's probably at least 50,000 people that work in airport CS across the US airline industry. But yes, every single one of us is rotten to the core and are hellbent on making sure that the millions of passengers we serve each and every day have the most rotten experience possible. :spin:
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:39 pm

ScottB wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Nobody needs to prove anything - he proved it by his behavior and his words. Wait, maybe I misunderstood? Perhaps you meant the power trip the customer was on by whipping out his cellphone, interrupting employees, arguing rather than taking responsibility..... Lol, I know, that'll never happen. :-)

If you think working for an airline and dealing with this crap day in and day out is a party, you are absolutely out of touch. IMHO, and with all due respect.


I've worked in customer service and I've had to deal with both bad & good customers. Even if you're dealing with an obnoxious customer, you still have to follow policy and not wig out. Refusing to check the guy in because he was intoxicated would have been perfectly reasonable and, in fact, probably required by Federal regulations. Refusing to check in the passenger because he wouldn't pay the bag fee again would be reasonable and in keeping with the airline's policy. But that's not what the agent did. If you know you're on camera (and these days that's probably a good assumption in any customer-facing activity) then you just keep your cool and stick to the book. Maybe that's easier said than done, but it's also part of the job description. You definitely don't go on a power trip and refuse service because you don't like being filmed without permission.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: What boggles my mind is that there were perfectly valid reasons to deny him from flying, the intoxication and the refusal to pay the fee. That's not what happened here though. She deserves to be fired.
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EA CO AS
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:45 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
If anybody ever stuck a camera in my face in my past or present jobs, I would tell them to shove it somewhere the sun don't shine. This out-to-get everyone mentality needs to stop.


I'd probably go into a sort of Cindy Brady/Baton Rouge moment and just freeze-frame stare at the camera. At least I wouldn't be caught saying anything wrong. lol


I don't know what's worse; the fact that I understood that reference, or that most people on this site won't have a clue what it means. ;)
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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antoniemey
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 9:49 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
The agent needs to be fired.


No she doesn't. Coached, probably. Retrained, possibly. But if you fire anyone who ever makes a small error in judgement while handling a situation you'll have no one capable of doing anything.


manny wrote:
That they are rotten to the core. Airline employees seriously need a gut check. If they do not like interacting with people they should find another line of work instead of inconveniencing passengers.


Nice to know you're a perfect angel who's never lost their temper in a stressful situation. I'm happy to know that you think I'm rotten to the core because I empathize with a fellow agent whose shoes I have been in many times.


mjoelnir wrote:
If somebody films you doing your work, you behave in a way that clearly puts yourself in the wrong, like being pissed off about being taped, or do you behave in a way, that that video can in no way way be used against yourself, because you show that you are cool, you give the right information and are the best customer service agent you can find.


A stressed human cannot be counted on to think logically, and you are operating from hindsight with no external factors impairing your thought process as you consider the situation.


dtw2hyd wrote:
Anybody comes between UA and a $1 is not irate and belligerent.


No, but someone raising their voice, cursing, and/or interrupting another customer's transaction when asked politely to wait IS.


dtw2hyd wrote:
There are thousands of cameras installed at any airport.


Which generally do not record audio or closeups.


Aptivaboy wrote:
Since he wasn't allowed to check in and board, his ticket was for all intents and purposes, cancelled.


Actually, no. He could have either been rebooked to another, later flight or requested a refund at any time within a few days of the CHECK IN PROCESS being cancelled. The ticket was still there and available for use.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
OB1504
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 10:06 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
eastalt wrote:
As a Customer Service Agent for a major airline, I have learned the flying public will not tell the truth. When they are wrong and the conversation is not on their side they then start recording.


First off, how *dare* you? No one in the flying public tells the truth? Ever? That's incredibly presumptuous of you and the CUSTOMERS who are ultimately the reason for your business' existence.

Second, airlines (like many organizations) record customer service phone calls "to better serve you." Turnabout is fair play. If the customer suspects he's being wronged, that's totally legitimate. And we've seen plenty of incidents recently where a customer WAS wronged, and where the public at large found out about it only due to a recording.


As a general rule, if someone says "I flew with it last time/on the way here", it is extremely unlikely that they are telling the truth. There are, of course, graceful ways to handle that and that's where the art of being a customer service agent comes in.

My objection with being recorded is because I am doing my best to serve the customer in accordance with the policies established by the company, and I don't want to be the target of an Internet vigilante mob based on a one-sided recording.
 
dc10co
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 10:24 pm

OB1504 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
eastalt wrote:
As a Customer Service Agent for a major airline, I have learned the flying public will not tell the truth. When they are wrong and the conversation is not on their side they then start recording.


First off, how *dare* you? No one in the flying public tells the truth? Ever? That's incredibly presumptuous of you and the CUSTOMERS who are ultimately the reason for your business' existence.

Second, airlines (like many organizations) record customer service phone calls "to better serve you." Turnabout is fair play. If the customer suspects he's being wronged, that's totally legitimate. And we've seen plenty of incidents recently where a customer WAS wronged, and where the public at large found out about it only due to a recording.


As a general rule, if someone says "I flew with it last time/on the way here", it is extremely unlikely that they are telling the truth. There are, of course, graceful ways to handle that and that's where the art of being a customer service agent comes in.

My objection with being recorded is because I am doing my best to serve the customer in accordance with the policies established by the company, and I don't want to bye the target of an Internet vigilante mob based on a one-sided recording.


Which I think is a sentiment shared by many of us in the industry. I'm terrified of something like this happening to me, especially now that it hit this close to home. The irony in this situation is that I think by reacting to the fear of becoming the next online sensation is what propelled this situation into the vigilante mob.

I don't believe that any agent wakes up in the morning and says I'm going to ruin people's day today. I think that the majority of agents really try to provide the best service possible, but the reality is that we work in a highly regulated and complex industry and that it is impossible to please everyone. There are people in this world who will literally complain because their ice cream is cold.
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.
 
Flighty
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 10:33 pm

So, the gate agent informed the customer about a $325 fee, the customer declined to purchase that additional service, so the agent followed the customer's instruction that he would not agree to the business relationship, and thus the relationship was over.

Isn't that what happened? What am I missing? What are the facts about the baggage? Was she correct?
 
glfblz59
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 10:56 pm

Well, after working the gates at ORD for 4+ years, and the ticket counter for another 3+ years,(total; 27+yrs)
passengers are NOT the most respectful people in the world. They do think if they bought a ticket
from A to B, they can do what they want. I was swang at, cursed at and, spit at. Really, a FUN job at $3.78
to $4.29/hr. Kurt Goudie swing at me at gate K-2, for missng his, and the last flight of the night to BOS. So,
the "club lounge" took him back in and then paid for a hotel room - OMG! Yes, it was tough, but we did have
to adapt to whatever happend. Glad I retired...................Things have changed SO much.[photoid][/photoid]
 
ILUVDC10S
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:26 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
MesaFlyGuy wrote:
the passenger was causing a scene, slurring his words.


you deducted this how? The article made no mention of him slurring words and even if he was, even if he was, so what. When did slurring words become grounds for cancelling a ticket? Again, UA is wrong and obviously, they have not learned a thing since Dr. Dao. Quite frankly, why anyone flies UA anymore is beyond me.

Next, how was the passenger causing a scene, what did he exactly do that caused a scene, breaking out his cell phone and recording? Nice try but not enough.

Lets see Oscar's response, bet it will go something like, 'Team, great job cancelling that passengers ticket. The passenger was rude, discourteous and was slurring his words. I stand behind you 100%, great work team!!!! :roll:
Actually, the company is apologizing. The agent needs to be fired. UAL needs to make it right.

Before they do the firing send her to the ramp for a year forgot what I said earlier about 6 months one year in that hot humid New Orleans sun will surely do a reality check for her.
 
AngMoh
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:28 pm

antoniemey wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
The agent needs to be fired.


No she doesn't. Coached, probably. Retrained, possibly. But if you fire anyone who ever makes a small error in judgement while handling a situation you'll have no one capable of doing anything.


manny wrote:
That they are rotten to the core. Airline employees seriously need a gut check. If they do not like interacting with people they should find another line of work instead of inconveniencing passengers.


Nice to know you're a perfect angel who's never lost their temper in a stressful situation. I'm happy to know that you think I'm rotten to the core because I empathize with a fellow agent whose shoes I have been in many times.


mjoelnir wrote:
If somebody films you doing your work, you behave in a way that clearly puts yourself in the wrong, like being pissed off about being taped, or do you behave in a way, that that video can in no way way be used against yourself, because you show that you are cool, you give the right information and are the best customer service agent you can find.


A stressed human cannot be counted on to think logically, and you are operating from hindsight with no external factors impairing your thought process as you consider the situation.


dtw2hyd wrote:
Anybody comes between UA and a $1 is not irate and belligerent.


No, but someone raising their voice, cursing, and/or interrupting another customer's transaction when asked politely to wait IS.


dtw2hyd wrote:
There are thousands of cameras installed at any airport.


Which generally do not record audio or closeups.


Aptivaboy wrote:
Since he wasn't allowed to check in and board, his ticket was for all intents and purposes, cancelled.


Actually, no. He could have either been rebooked to another, later flight or requested a refund at any time within a few days of the CHECK IN PROCESS being cancelled. The ticket was still there and available for use.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

You can not really expect counter staff to stay calm and handle this properly if first they are not trained to do so and secondly the culture of the company as a whole does not appear to be one where staff is supported in handling difficult customers.
The staff in question does not deserve to be fired, they deserve to be trained. If you are going to fire the staff for this, next time it happens to some other staff, they are going to get defensive because the first response to the unreasonable customer is "this a***hole is trying to get me fired!". That is not a good starting point to get a stressful situation resolved.
Problem is that in many organisations supervisors are not promoted to that job because they are the best of developing the people under them, but because they are good at "getting things done" (by hook or by crook).
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JoeCanuck
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Public service agents of all sorts, would be well advised to keep a camera recording all of the time. This achieves a couple of things; First, it captures the real story, every story from start to finish good and bad. There will always be disputes between customers and businesses and the honest of either side are best served by ALL of the information being available for review, NOT just what a special interest edits for public consumption.

There's the rub; everybody has a bad day, but what gets recorded is a one off event. As a public face of a company, you are expected to comport yourself in a professional manner ALL of the time. Not always possible but it's a lot easier to win in the court of public opinion if there is a track record of you doing an excellent job and losing it once, than having the only thing on recorded being when you screw up.

Maybe you didn't screw up...but the recording has been creatively edited in such a way that makes it look like you did. If you don't have a raw, unedited recording....you lose.

Some cops resist the idea of body cams, and others rightly see them as very strong tools that can be used for their own protection as well. The truth is your friend...if you're honest. Video is the great equalizer. It can work to accuse and defend. How many lives have been ruined by false accusations and how many have been saved by chance recordings?

Basically...in today's reality, just assume you are being filmed...because you probably are...and conduct yourself accordingly.

There's an old adage that if there's a mic in the room, it's safest to assume it's always on. Well, today, there are always mics and cameras in every room...and if there is the least chance that something interesting is happening, it's being filmed.

Not just Big Brother....but the little brothers, sisters, moms, dads and cousins are watching you.
What the...?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:38 pm

dc10co wrote:
As someone with inside knowledge of this situation, let me tell you what happened before this man started filming. The agent being filmed is the lead agent for the ticket counter and was in the middle of assisting another customer. This is why she is on the phone for almost the entire video, trying to resolve the issue with the customer she was helping. The man filming was being helped by another agent who explained to him that his bag was oversized and overweight and that the fee was $325. This is clearly stated on the UA website, $200 oversized, $100 overweight, and $25 first bag fee and the man was explained this breakdown as well. It can also be clearly seen in the video the man is filming that the bag weighs over 60 pounds and is clearly oversized.

So the man filming became irate at the first agent and demanded to speak to a manager, but because it was 3:30AM and the counter had just opened there was no MOD at the time only a lead agent. As soon as he found out she was the lead he stormed over to her and refused to wait for her to finish helping the customer she was already assisting. When he was asked to wait for her to finish a second time is when he pulled out the camera and began filming.

As someone who also knows this agent personally, she loves her job and is one of the most kind and compassionate people you will ever meet. Nobody can sit here and tell me that it's easy to deal with an irate man shoving a camera in your face at 3AM because he was too impatient to wait for you to finish with the customer that you were already helping. It's so easy for people to play Monday morning quarterback online after watching a short video and say "she's a disgrace" or "deserves to be fired" when in actuality you have no idea who this person is as an individual, you just place them into your cookie cutter mold of "another bitter airline employee". But maybe when you sit behind the veil of your computer screen you should take a moment and realize that this person is an actual human being too, and think about what you would say if you knew this person on a personal level.


I do hope UA will not capitulate in the name of PR in this case. Clearly the passenger was in the wrong & thus should pay for his indiscretion.

And if UA fires the agent I hope she sues the company AND the passenger for undue stress & harassment.
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antoniemey
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Wed May 10, 2017 11:47 pm

ILUVDC10S wrote:
Before they do the firing send her to the ramp for a year forgot what I said earlier about 6 months one year in that hot humid New Orleans sun will surely do a reality check for her.


And a week on the counter at any airport in the US will do a wonderful reality check for you.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
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zeke
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:03 am

antoniemey wrote:
And a week on the counter at any airport in the US will do a wonderful reality check for you.


They are a very new member on this site, I don't think anyone would take them seriously. There has been some very wild comments made on these threads, no reasonable person would see punitive measures against staff just performing their role in the face of these "outliners". Everyone knows the behavior exhibited by the passenger is not what society (i.e. a group of fellow passengers) would deem acceptable or normal. I would not want to sit next to that passenger the way they were behaving.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Avi8r747
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:07 am

Folks seriously, we need to STOP posting this crap. Stop broadcasting this lunacy. It has been very well documented that a lot of news sources check this site for information. Has this really become what A.net is about now? Are we really going to post EVERY bad day a passenger has at an airport?! Let the drama networks broadcast this. This is another useless, overhyped, non-factual puff piece. If anyone here for one second thinks that all these airlines are training their employees to humiliate their customers, and see how far they can go, you are out of your mind, and I hope for society sake, you do not work in this industry.

Unless you are front line staff ( tickets agents, gate agents, supervisors, inflight crew) you have no idea how insanely infuriating it is having these ridiculous stories going around the news bashing their company, their job, and their way of life. You have no idea what these professionals put up with on a day by day basis. You have no idea what they see, what they hear, what they observe, what they put up with, what they go through, what they're told, or what they incur on every flight, everyday. Imagine if they were allowed to carry a camera and observe the idiocy they contend with.

This has gone on long enough. Stop. Just stop. This is not aviation worthy news. This does not help inform aviation enthusiasts. This does nothing other than start debate that quickly escalates to drama over policy, emotion over regulation, opinion over fact.

Come on A.net, we are better than this
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:08 am

This is where the authorities should have been summoned. Someone had one drink too many.
 
bob75013
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:09 am

OB1504 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
eastalt wrote:
My objection with being recorded is because I am doing my best to serve the customer in accordance with the policies established by the company, and I don't want to be the target of an Internet vigilante mob based on a one-sided recording.


Your objection, while noted, is irrelevant.

The Supreme Court ruled that no one in a "public setting" has any expectation of privacy. That means that anyone can film anyone else for any or no reason at an airport, in the street, on the highway. You may not like it, but you better get used to it because the courts have ruled that it is completely legal.
 
ILUVDC10S
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:14 am

antoniemey wrote:
ILUVDC10S wrote:
Before they do the firing send her to the ramp for a year forgot what I said earlier about 6 months one year in that hot humid New Orleans sun will surely do a reality check for her.


And a week on the counter at any airport in the US will do a wonderful reality check for you.

I would enjoy it. I love dealing with people. would love to take that offer where at ?
 
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antoniemey
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:16 am

ILUVDC10S wrote:
antoniemey wrote:
ILUVDC10S wrote:
Before they do the firing send her to the ramp for a year forgot what I said earlier about 6 months one year in that hot humid New Orleans sun will surely do a reality check for her.


And a week on the counter at any airport in the US will do a wonderful reality check for you.

I would enjoy it. I love dealing with people. would love to take that offer where at ?


I'm sure that somewhere near wherever you live some airline or airline contractor is hiring right this moment. Remember to tell them how much you love dealing with people when you apply.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
bob75013
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:17 am

Flighty wrote:
So, the gate agent informed the customer about a $325 fee, the customer declined to purchase that additional service, so the agent followed the customer's instruction that he would not agree to the business relationship, and thus the relationship was over.

Isn't that what happened? What am I missing? What are the facts about the baggage? Was she correct?


What you are missing is two things:

1) The customer did say multiple times that he'd pay the fee
2) The agent said she was cancelling the ticket, not because he wouldn't pay the fee, but because the pax was taping her.
 
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zeke
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:20 am

bob75013 wrote:
The Supreme Court ruled that no one in a "public setting" has any expectation of privacy. That means that anyone can film anyone else for any or no reason at an airport, in the street, on the highway. You may not like it, but you better get used to it because the courts have ruled that it is completely legal.


Filming, taking photos, CCTV is different to filming and recording audio. I have already posted earlier on this thread what the state law states about recording audio, and the distribution of that audio which was taken without consent.

He needed to have her consent or the consent of another person who was on that phone call according to state law to record audio while she was on the phone, she clearly said many times she did not consent. This is normally under the wiretapping and eavesdropping statutes.

This is different to filming a police officer while on duty, you can record a public official in video and audio without needing consent. A gate agent is not a public official.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
ILUVDC10S
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:26 am

antoniemey wrote:
ILUVDC10S wrote:
antoniemey wrote:

And a week on the counter at any airport in the US will do a wonderful reality check for you.

I would enjoy it. I love dealing with people. would love to take that offer where at ?


I'm sure that somewhere near wherever you live some airline or airline contractor is hiring right this moment. Remember to tell them how much you love dealing with people when you apply.


Working in the service industry for over 20 years and 10 in other avenues There is nothing that would surprise me anymore. Handled my fair share of customers who clearly had a bad day.
 
bob75013
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:31 am

"He needed to have her consent or the consent of another person who was on that phone call according to state law to record audio while she was on the phone, she clearly said many times she did not consent. This is normally under the wiretapping and eavesdropping statutes."

That is not correct. When the camera is in plain view it is obvious that filming is occurring, consent is not a requirement.
The consent of the person she is talking with is also not required because no video or audio of the person is seen/heard.
 
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zeke
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:33 am

Not correct, filiming is not the same as AUDIO, that would be taping.

From http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide

Louisiana’s Electronic Surveillance Act bars the recording, interception, use or disclosure of any oral or telephonic communication by means of any mechanical or electronic device without the consent of at least one party to the conversation. The state also prohibits the recording and disclosure of images intercepted in violation of its video voyeurism laws. Violators can face both civil and criminal penalties.
In person conversations: A person cannot overhear or tape a private conversation to which that person is not openly present and participating or listening, unless consent to record is given by at least one of the parties to the conversation. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1303.

§1303. Interception and disclosure of wire, electronic, or oral communications

A. Except as otherwise specifically provided in this Chapter, it shall be unlawful for any person to:

(1) Willfully intercept, endeavor to intercept, or procure any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire or oral communication;
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:54 am

You also have a right to control your visage and where it appears. If someone takes a recording and then posts it on a public forum or uses it without your express permission, you hit on another set of federal (and some state laws) involving copyright. To push that along a little further, if you hold them up to public ridicule you may be subject to slander or other civil action. Facebook and YouTube execute take down notices daily from this.

You do give up some rights of expected privacy in public places like airports, but you also have the right to revoke any implied license to record or use your visage for any reason. Now, weather it is worth all this litigation is another matter, but there are no blanket rights of having a phone cam take your picture and someone using it for any purpose whatsoever.

If I was her, I would send the douche a bill for my "performance" as an outraged customer service agent.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 1:33 am

Now-a-days even upper elementary students are taught conflict resolution . By the time teenagers are out of high school, they know how to deal with various types of people in a civil manner. Even employees at fast food restaurants have better customer facing skills.

Question is where the heck airlines are hiring these employees from who lack basic skills any teenager has. Is $14.50/hr salary the issue? Airlines at least need to pony up training money. The condescending nature towards own customers is appalling.

Did they hire the cheapest bidder as social media handler?
All posts are just opinions.
 
manny
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 1:33 am

antoniemey wrote:
manny wrote:
That they are rotten to the core. Airline employees seriously need a gut check. If they do not like interacting with people they should find another line of work instead of inconveniencing passengers.


Nice to know you're a perfect angel who's never lost their temper in a stressful situation. I'm happy to know that you think I'm rotten to the core because I empathize with a fellow agent whose shoes I have been in many times.



Not on my job. Now no one forces you to take up a job where you have to deal with multiple people a day. But once you choose that profession than you have to be professional. Of late there have been too many instances caught on tape. Threatening passengers with jail time, foster care for children or physical abuse. In this case an unprofessional gate agent essentially called law enforcement to harass a passenger just because he was recording her, which he is entitled to do. She was the one who was raising her voice, being belligerent and created a situation, which she escalated further by get law enforcement involved and by leveling false accusations against the passenger. For any person to deal with law enforcement is a stressful experience and this woman put a passenger through that experience on a whim. You have to be rotten to the core to be able to do that without any regrets.
 
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antoniemey
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 1:35 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Now-a-days even upper elementary students are taught conflict resolution . By the time teenagers are out of high school, they know how to deal with various types of people in a civil manner.


What school district are you dealing with?
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 1:43 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Did they hire the cheapest bidder as social media handler?


Don't be so hard on yourself. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Braniff1
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 2:04 am

Customers are not always right, yet the bottom line is, they pay the bills and salary of every employee including the executives that are responsible for the company and rake in excessive salaries. The agent that got carried away with her own self-importance was totally out of line and is a prime example of why the public is sick of the airlines and their rude employees. This problem is only going to escalate until the airlines return to customer service, understanding that the public is paying their salaries. Gate agents and FAs now believe they have a power over the public which is horribly misplaced.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 2:14 am

Braniff1 wrote:
Customers are not always right, yet the bottom line is, they pay the bills and salary of every employee including the executives that are responsible for the company and rake in excessive salaries. The agent that got carried away with her own self-importance was totally out of line and is a prime example of why the public is sick of the airlines and their rude employees. This problem is only going to escalate until the airlines return to customer service, understanding that the public is paying their salaries. Gate agents and FAs now believe they have a power over the public which is horribly misplaced.


One bad customer doesn't pay the salary of an agent. In fact I doubt the fare paid even covers a tenth of that agent's salary. As such the agent shouldn't have to take it if one bad customer chose to throw a tantrum just because he didn't get what he wants.

Stop enabling bad behaviour on the account of "I pay your salary".
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Braniff1
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 2:58 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Braniff1 wrote:
Customers are not always right, yet the bottom line is, they pay the bills and salary of every employee including the executives that are responsible for the company and rake in excessive salaries. The agent that got carried away with her own self-importance was totally out of line and is a prime example of why the public is sick of the airlines and their rude employees. This problem is only going to escalate until the airlines return to customer service, understanding that the public is paying their salaries. Gate agents and FAs now believe they have a power over the public which is horribly misplaced.


One bad customer doesn't pay the salary of an agent. In fact I doubt the fare paid even covers a tenth of that agent's salary. As such the agent shouldn't have to take it if one bad customer chose to throw a tantrum just because he didn't get what he wants.

Stop enabling bad behaviour on the account of "I pay your salary".


Slick, it's obvious that you must be an airline employee. It is not one person, if you would notice I stated 'they," meaning more than one, as in the flying public pay the salaries. It's called economy of scale. If I for one pay for a service, I expect that service to be what it is advertised to be. There is no such thing as 'The Friendly Sky's," because of the poor service dispensed by shoddy airline employees, i.e., sorry FAs and gate agents. You might also learn to spell before criticizing others. In my world, those who work for a living are expected to be representatives of the product they sell. In the case of the airline industry, service and quality representation of the product represented is sadly absent. It's obvious that you know nothing about corporate or business management. Take your pay check and continue to render sub-par service. I hope you're happy screwing the people that pay your way.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 4:55 am

Braniff1 wrote:
Slick, it's obvious that you must be an airline employee. It is not one person, if you would notice I stated 'they," meaning more than one, as in the flying public pay the salaries. It's called economy of scale. If I for one pay for a service, I expect that service to be what it is advertised to be. There is no such thing as 'The Friendly Sky's," because of the poor service dispensed by shoddy airline employees, i.e., sorry FAs and gate agents. You might also learn to spell before criticizing others. In my world, those who work for a living are expected to be representatives of the product they sell. In the case of the airline industry, service and quality representation of the product represented is sadly absent. It's obvious that you know nothing about corporate or business management. Take your pay check and continue to render sub-par service. I hope you're happy screwing the people that pay your way.


Well hoss, it's clear you've missed the bloody point. Didn't you read the account by someone who is familiar with the incident & the agent?

dc10co wrote:
As someone with inside knowledge of this situation, let me tell you what happened before this man started filming. The agent being filmed is the lead agent for the ticket counter and was in the middle of assisting another customer. This is why she is on the phone for almost the entire video, trying to resolve the issue with the customer she was helping. The man filming was being helped by another agent who explained to him that his bag was oversized and overweight and that the fee was $325. This is clearly stated on the UA website, $200 oversized, $100 overweight, and $25 first bag fee and the man was explained this breakdown as well. It can also be clearly seen in the video the man is filming that the bag weighs over 60 pounds and is clearly oversized.

So the man filming became irate at the first agent and demanded to speak to a manager, but because it was 3:30AM and the counter had just opened there was no MOD at the time only a lead agent. As soon as he found out she was the lead he stormed over to her and refused to wait for her to finish helping the customer she was already assisting. When he was asked to wait for her to finish a second time is when he pulled out the camera and began filming.


Which is why I said we should stop enabling passengers' bad behaviour just because of the notion that the passenger pays the airline staff's salary. It's utterly demeaning & disrespectful to the airline staff because they're not servants or even slaves - they're also human beings. If you have a complaint don't take it out on the front line staff because they are only administering policy, especially if you're in the wrong. There are times when the airline staff is clearly in the wrong - but not in this case.

*P.S: - "You might also learn to spell before criticizing others." - you mean my spelling of the word "behaviour" which is the only word that's misspelled on my computer's auto correct only because it's suggesting the Americanized spelling instead of the British spelling which I'm more familiar with?
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
eastalt
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 7:25 am

SurlyBonds wrote:
eastalt wrote:
As a Customer Service Agent for a major airline, I have learned the flying public will not tell the truth. When they are wrong and the conversation is not on their side they then start recording.


First off, how *dare* you? No one in the flying public tells the truth? Ever? That's incredibly presumptuous of you and the CUSTOMERS who are ultimately the reason for your business' existence.

Second, airlines (like many organizations) record customer service phone calls "to better serve you." Turnabout is fair play. If the customer suspects he's being wronged, that's totally legitimate. And we've seen plenty of incidents recently where a customer WAS wronged, and where the public at large found out about it only due to a recording.


Yes SurlyBonds, some people lie! I know its hard to believe because you think airlines and their employees are there to make your life miserable. Further, it also presumptuous to determine that the Agent in this video was wrong. You did not see what happen prior to the situation being recorded. I truly wish people who point the finger could work a full year in the environment we work. There are thousands of good stories to tell everyday and the only ones that get reported are the exceptions that are rare and inmost situations fully one sided.
 
ITB
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 8:01 am

Forgive me for being ignorant, but isn't an airline terminal private property? Does one have the right to pull out a video camera and start recording? For instance, if someone is taking video of the terminal security setup, how long do you think it would be before he was taken aside and sharply questioned?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 8:19 am

ITB wrote:
Forgive me for being ignorant, but isn't an airline terminal private property? Does one have the right to pull out a video camera and start recording? For instance, if someone is taking video of the terminal security setup, how long do you think it would be before he was taken aside and sharply questioned?


No, the terminal is not private property. The guy did not video security arrangements.
 
ILUVDC10S
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 8:24 am

ITB wrote:
Forgive me for being ignorant, but isn't an airline terminal private property? Does one have the right to pull out a video camera and start recording? For instance, if someone is taking video of the terminal security setup, how long do you think it would be before he was taken aside and sharply questioned?

Most airports are government public buildings there may be a few privately owned and operated ones MSY is not one of those last I knew.
 
ITB
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 8:36 am

ILUVDC10S wrote:
ITB wrote:
Forgive me for being ignorant, but isn't an airline terminal private property? Does one have the right to pull out a video camera and start recording? For instance, if someone is taking video of the terminal security setup, how long do you think it would be before he was taken aside and sharply questioned?

Most airports are government public buildings there may be a few privately owned and operated ones MSY is not one of those last I knew.

In many instances airports are owned and operated by independent entities, such PANYNJ and MWAA, which operates DCA and IAD. While I'm not entirely sure about PANYNJ being independent, MWAA surely is.
 
ITB
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 8:38 am

Even if an airport were considered government property, does that give one the right to take video on the premises? I'm not sure.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 10:36 am

eastalt wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
eastalt wrote:
As a Customer Service Agent for a major airline, I have learned the flying public will not tell the truth. When they are wrong and the conversation is not on their side they then start recording.


First off, how *dare* you? No one in the flying public tells the truth? Ever? That's incredibly presumptuous of you and the CUSTOMERS who are ultimately the reason for your business' existence.

Second, airlines (like many organizations) record customer service phone calls "to better serve you." Turnabout is fair play. If the customer suspects he's being wronged, that's totally legitimate. And we've seen plenty of incidents recently where a customer WAS wronged, and where the public at large found out about it only due to a recording.


Yes SurlyBonds, some people lie! I know its hard to believe because you think airlines and their employees are there to make your life miserable. Further, it also presumptuous to determine that the Agent in this video was wrong. You did not see what happen prior to the situation being recorded. I truly wish people who point the finger could work a full year in the environment we work. There are thousands of good stories to tell everyday and the only ones that get reported are the exceptions that are rare and inmost situations fully one sided.


The agent on the video was wrong. It does of course matter what happened before and what happened afterwards, but while on video the agent was wrong declaring that the customer would not fly until he stopped taping her and he would have to erase the video.
 
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klm617
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 12:57 pm

antoniemey wrote:
travaz wrote:
What ever happened to the customer is always right?


The problem with that philosophy is that in most cases the customer who thinks he is absolutely right is really wrong and is an asshole about it.

Further, there is no way to change the amount of a bag fee in AERO (United's primary check-in engine), nor in SHARES (the base reservation system). It is all or nothing. The intermediate program they used while AERO was being developed did allow adjustments, but it is no longer available.

On top of THAT, every guidance from United ever issued states that you follow and charge the passenger what AERO says except in very extreme (and limited) circumstances. If they claim they weren't charged or were charged a different amount last time, you apologize but stand firm on the price.

Why? Because passengers will lie like a politician to avoid a fee. Because a passenger may be mistaken about what they were previously charged. Because the circumstances may have changed since the last time they checked in. Because United wants consistency as much as possible, but they also want that money.

jumbojet wrote:
you deducted this how? The article made no mention of him slurring words and even if he was, even if he was, so what.


Umm, did you watch the video?

My assumption, based on the claims he made, is that on the way there the agent only charged him for the over 50lb overweight cost while the bag was actually over 70lbs... or it was near 70lbs going and tipped over by things he was bringing back.



And that is the problem right there the CSAs are trained to be insensitive to the customers situation. There is either lack of no problem resolution training what ever the computer says that's what you do right or wrong. Passengers are tired of being pushed around to bad this mindset wasn't in place in the past then maybe 9-11 and AI 181 might have turned out quiet differently as the passengers in both those cases got the CSA to mend the rules to meet their demands and the rest is history.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Braniff1
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 3:50 pm

Flying Disk wrote:
"It's utterly demeaning & disrespectful to the airline staff because they're not servants..."
This is exactly were you miss the boat old chap; you are a servant. You may not enjoy the word, yet according to your Oxford English Dictionary you are a servant. To quote OED, " A person who performs duties for others" is a servant. Only you have used the word "slave," here. Airline flight staff have over the years been Stewards and then Flight Attendants and today as you call yourself Flying Dicks. The only aspect of your job that you care about is getting off duty; a duty horribly under-served by the majority of FAs. I know FAs and their disdain for the public is rampant. When the public receives the service and product advertised there is little to no problem. You, your ilk and your unions along with corporate greed is why we are having these pointed discussions. The public did not rise up and become fed-up without good cause. The public travelers, are treated like cattle and to a lesser degree trash by flight staff and gate agents. The genesis of this current problem stems from your side of the net, not the public that yes, pay your salary.
The point that you care nothing about is, service. Airlines offer a service, a service that only the cockpit crew seems to understand. If pilots did their job in the same manner as most FAs, not a single aircraft would get off the runway. You may banter all you wish, make excuses all you care to, but the undeniable truth is, service is no longer part of the scam called in general, "The Friendly Sky's." Today air travel is a heard mentality, crammed aircraft and piss poor servants, i.e., FAs.
Ta- Ta chum and have a good flight.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 4:21 pm

klm617 wrote:
And that is the problem right there the CSAs are trained to be insensitive to the customers situation. There is either lack of no problem resolution training what ever the computer says that's what you do right or wrong.


Go with complete automation(kiosks and robots) and replace CSAs with Airport Whisperers who walk around in plain clothes and talk in third person with passengers fighting with kiosks.

A stranger saying "I heard $325 is the correct charge" will convince the passenger to pay up.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 4:24 pm

antoniemey wrote:

A stressed human cannot be counted on to think logically,


As a physician, I must disagree. Any pilot would have to disagree.

Professionals do their jobs under stress. If you aren't ready to be a professional, then don't get a job as one.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
tp1040
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 4:42 pm

Besides all the arguments about rules, laws, behavior, timing, disputes, I still can't get over the $325 for the bag.

Before somebody explains it to me, I know, it is their business, yada, yada, but profit, yada, yada, but safety, yada, yada, but metrics, yada, yada, yield, yada, yada, know the rules, yada, yada, shareholders, yada, yada.
 
Planetalk
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 4:47 pm

zeke wrote:
Not correct, filiming is not the same as AUDIO, that would be taping.

From http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide

Louisiana’s Electronic Surveillance Act bars the recording, interception, use or disclosure of any oral or telephonic communication by means of any mechanical or electronic device without the consent of at least one party to the conversation. The state also prohibits the recording and disclosure of images intercepted in violation of its video voyeurism laws. Violators can face both civil and criminal penalties.
In person conversations: A person cannot overhear or tape a private conversation to which that person is not openly present and participating or listening, unless consent to record is given by at least one of the parties to the conversation. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 15:1303.

§1303. Interception and disclosure of wire, electronic, or oral communications

A. Except as otherwise specifically provided in this Chapter, it shall be unlawful for any person to:

(1) Willfully intercept, endeavor to intercept, or procure any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire or oral communication;


All completely irrelevant to this incident, since it specifically states it is only guidance for reporters, and in the text itself refers to taping private conversations at which the person is not present. As the person was present in the conversation, the law actually specifically provides for htem to be permitted to record, as confirmed by the officer present at the scene.

Overally i'm not sure anyone comes out of this very well though, and if I were the passenger I wouldn't have been rushing to make this video public, it doesn't exactly show his best side!
 
TerminalD
Topic Author
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Re: UA Agent Canceled His Reservation Because He Filmed Her in Bag Dispute

Thu May 11, 2017 6:21 pm

This one officially blew up on Reddit today. I think it's going to get a lot of coverage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comment ... day_after/

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