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flybynight
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 6:38 pm

I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

1 - Favorite thing - ease of parking the car and getting quickly into/out the airport...but prices just went up again to $30/day
2 - Traffic - oh man can it bad leaving or coming. Leaving around 5'ish and getting on I5 or I405 can be a nightmare
3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming
7 - C'mon SEA, you charge enough. Make the upgrades to allow Emirates and LH to fly their A380's. And BA would likely consider it too, just like they did seasonally at YVR
8 - It seems to me that SEA seldom uses all three runways at the same time. Is it just me?

What I'd like to see:
1- Another proper exit from the airport. Perhaps south and directly onto to the 5
2 - Bigger food court and proper food courts in the S and N terminals.
3 - More shops
4 - Better ecstatic's. Overall the airport seems a little bush league
Heia Norge!
 
JBoy
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:11 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 9:18 pm

I believe (not confirmed) that the runways are too close together to all be used at the same time. Also, they are confined in real estate. They don't have much room to grow beyond the plans already in place.
 
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ER757
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 9:29 pm

flybynight wrote:
I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

1 - Favorite thing - ease of parking the car and getting quickly into/out the airport...but prices just went up again to $30/day
2 - Traffic - oh man can it bad leaving or coming. Leaving around 5'ish and getting on I5 or I405 can be a nightmare
3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming
7 - C'mon SEA, you charge enough. Make the upgrades to allow Emirates and LH to fly their A380's. And BA would likely consider it too, just like they did seasonally at YVR
8 - It seems to me that SEA seldom uses all three runways at the same time. Is it just me?

What I'd like to see:
1- Another proper exit from the airport. Perhaps south and directly onto to the 5
2 - Bigger food court and proper food courts in the S and N terminals.
3 - More shops
4 - Better ecstatic's. Overall the airport seems a little bush league


Traffic definietly terrible at the times you describe - I voluteer there once a week until 18:00 and headed south is a choose your poison experience, wait forever for the metered ramp from 518 onto 5 South or deal with innumerable stoplights on Pac Highway
Food court in the Central marketplace is pretty nice IMO and let's face it, for an airplane junkie, there's few better places to hang out while waiting for your flight than in front of that big wall of windows!
I am totally with you on #7 - I wanna see the Big Bus here at SEA!!!! :hissyfit:
Agree with #2 on your wish list as well
#4 - I don't have an issue with the aesthetics - but that's just my opinion
FWIW, I think the DL club between the B and A gates is fantastic and the AMEX lounge is pretty nice too. AS is building what is supopsed to be a world class loubge in the expanded N satellite
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 245
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 9:51 pm

flybynight wrote:
I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

1 - Favorite thing - ease of parking the car and getting quickly into/out the airport...but prices just went up again to $30/day
2 - Traffic - oh man can it bad leaving or coming. Leaving around 5'ish and getting on I5 or I405 can be a nightmare
3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming
7 - C'mon SEA, you charge enough. Make the upgrades to allow Emirates and LH to fly their A380's. And BA would likely consider it too, just like they did seasonally at YVR
8 - It seems to me that SEA seldom uses all three runways at the same time. Is it just me?

What I'd like to see:
1- Another proper exit from the airport. Perhaps south and directly onto to the 5
2 - Bigger food court and proper food courts in the S and N terminals.
3 - More shops
4 - Better ecstatic's. Overall the airport seems a little bush league


There is not much you can do with size. SEA uses just about all of the land it can possibly use and is surrounded by residential areas on all sides, hell even the runways are too close together to operate two at once. There just isn't room for expansion.
 
Prost
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 9:57 pm

In Seattle, us locals never say 'the 5.' In LA, yes, but in Seattle, it's just I-5, or I-405, never 'the' in front of it. One of our many quirks.

A southern access point to the freeways is going to occur with the continuation it SR-509 to I-5, intersecting around Kent/DesMoines road.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/sr ... ionrelief/
http://www.ci.seatac.wa.us/Modules/Show ... entid=6913

Like everything else in this neck of the woods, if you think it should happen in 2-3 years, it'll be done in 10.
 
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flybynight
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 9:59 pm

ER757 wrote:
flybynight wrote:

FWIW, I think the DL club between the B and A gates is fantastic and the AMEX lounge is pretty nice too. AS is building what is supopsed to be a world class loubge in the expanded N satellite


Is that what's being currently built on the north end of the N gates? I thought that was additional gates. I believe there is also work going on at the south end of the N gates ( so facing over to the c-gates).

Yeah the center food court is very pleasing for us plane geeks to look out over the runway. My concern is the lack of seating. While it is a big area, SEA is growing so fast it needs additional seating. I do however love all those salmon hanging down.

Huh, I didn't realize the runways were considered too close for parallel landings or takeoffs. Is it that much closer than SFO, where parallel landings and takeoffs are common?
I wonder if SEA could annex some of the land directly south of the airport for expansion. There is a smallish wooded area down there.
Heia Norge!
 
Prost
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:03 pm

N gates becomes Northstar:

http://www.portseattle.org/About/Commis ... b_supp.pdf

A complete rebuild of the N concourse, additional gates and much improved amenities, a well deserved upgrade for Alaska Airlines.
 
Prost
Posts: 2451
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:06 pm

The runways are capable of handling dual arrivals, the problems with A380 operations in SEA involve the taxiway is too close to 16L/34R. In order to have A380 operations, you'd necessitate closing down all of the western facing gates. Ain't gonna happen for 1-2 airlines convenience.
 
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flybynight
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Prost wrote:
In Seattle, us locals never say 'the 5.' In LA, yes, but in Seattle, it's just I-5, or I-405, never 'the' in front of it. One of our many quirks.

A southern access point to the freeways is going to occur with the continuation it SR-509 to I-5, intersecting around Kent/DesMoines road.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/sr ... ionrelief/
http://www.ci.seatac.wa.us/Modules/Show ... entid=6913

Like everything else in this neck of the woods, if you think it should happen in 2-3 years, it'll be done in 10.


Haha, yes, I know. I live here too. But I actually call it both I90, I405 and I5 as well using the dreaded "the" word.

Interesting to see the updates to the N Terminal.

But the question that remains unanswered - are the runways at SEA that much closer than SFO? If landings were taking place on L and R, couldn't takeoffs occur right down in the middle on C?
Heia Norge!
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4994
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:18 pm

flybynight wrote:
Prost wrote:
In Seattle, us locals never say 'the 5.' In LA, yes, but in Seattle, it's just I-5, or I-405, never 'the' in front of it. One of our many quirks.

A southern access point to the freeways is going to occur with the continuation it SR-509 to I-5, intersecting around Kent/DesMoines road.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/sr ... ionrelief/
http://www.ci.seatac.wa.us/Modules/Show ... entid=6913

Like everything else in this neck of the woods, if you think it should happen in 2-3 years, it'll be done in 10.


Haha, yes, I know. I live here too. But I actually call it both I90, I405 and I5 as well using the dreaded "the" word.

Interesting to see the updates to the N Terminal.

But the question that remains unanswered - are the runways at SEA that much closer than SFO? If landings were taking place on L and R, couldn't takeoffs occur right down in the middle on C?


That happened last Wednesday afternoon. The L & R runways were used for landing and the center runway for takeoffs. SEA is getting pretty freakin' busy!
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:19 pm

flybynight wrote:
I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

1 - Favorite thing - ease of parking the car and getting quickly into/out the airport...but prices just went up again to $30/day
2 - Traffic - oh man can it bad leaving or coming. Leaving around 5'ish and getting on I5 or I405 can be a nightmare
3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming
7 - C'mon SEA, you charge enough. Make the upgrades to allow Emirates and LH to fly their A380's. And BA would likely consider it too, just like they did seasonally at YVR
8 - It seems to me that SEA seldom uses all three runways at the same time. Is it just me?


1 - $30/day in the terminal is the going rate at most major airports. LAX, Boston, and SFO (in a short, random sample) are all $25-35...the list goes on and on.
2 - Oh yea. It's nasty. That's why I take Link every single time unless I'm flying after 10p. Also, I'd guess it's directly tied to disincentivizing parking in the terminal (See your #1)
3 & 4 - Yea I also prefer PDX but it's pretty on par with most places...unless we're talking about the N or S satellites. Those are lacking.
5 - I don't really pay attention to this.
6 - I don't really pay attention to this
7 - Serious: Is there an actual need for a bird this big? I'd be surprised in the LFs demanded it.
8 - Really don't know this.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:29 pm

Prost wrote:
In Seattle, us locals never say 'the 5.' In LA, yes, but in Seattle, it's just I-5, or I-405, never 'the' in front of it. One of our many quirks.

A southern access point to the freeways is going to occur with the continuation it SR-509 to I-5, intersecting around Kent/DesMoines road.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/sr ... ionrelief/
http://www.ci.seatac.wa.us/Modules/Show ... entid=6913

Like everything else in this neck of the woods, if you think it should happen in 2-3 years, it'll be done in 10.


FWIW, as a life-long resident, I've always heard them as I-5, I-90 or sometimes just 90, and 405 (no 'I'). lol Years ago when Harry and the Henderson's came out, the dad was giving directions and said "Take THE I-5 north to Wallingford" - well, Wallingford, yes, but just "I-5" please. :-)

SEA has grown a lot, but it'll be much better when the S and N work is done in several years. Access used to be much better - in a sense - from the south when you could just turn directly into the parking garages from International Blvd. Now you have to basically drive past the airport and then come back - a slight exaggeration but if coming from the south that's how it feels. The I-5/I-405 interchange is also awkward and lacks capacity - one lane going each way? C'mon.....
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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ER757
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 10:51 pm

7 - Serious: Is there an actual need for a bird this big? I'd be surprised in the LFs demanded it.

Until their recent flight reductions to the US in general, EK flew a 77L and a 77W here daily - I am certain they'd have preferred a single A-380. I've been told as much by folks working at EK.
In summer BA has two daily flights some days of the week - combinations of 772, 77W, 744. Again, if pressed I am sure they'd tell you they'd rather do a single A-380 those days
 
FSDan
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Thu May 11, 2017 11:19 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
SEA is getting pretty freakin' busy!


As of this summer I believe SEA will be over 600 daily scheduled departures - slightly ahead of airports like MSP, DTW, and LGA, and just behind the likes of JFK, EWR, and SFO.

AS/VX ~310 departures
DL ~160 departures
WN ~40 departures
UA and AA each over 30 departures
Then you have NK, F9, B6, SY, HA, AC, and all the other international airlines.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5818
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 12:07 am

flybynight wrote:
I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming


To a large degree you can blame the carriers that operate there. In trying to keep their costs low (not the same as keeping fares low!) they have for years delayed and demanded scrimping by the airport authority.

Alaska fought the current international terminal expansion.

https://blog.alaskaair.com/alaska-airli ... -terminal/

Southwest fought against the plan that yielded the facilities in place today.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/so ... ing-field/

It all comes down to willingness to pay: how much, by whom, and when?
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 5:12 am

Maybe people in Snohomish County and northward should use Bellingham Airport?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1913
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 5:35 am

South Terminal needs to be refurbished. The food court there is a joke, not enough options. The central food court is good though.

Landing during peak international hours in afternoon is a pain though, they don't have enough immigration officers to man the lines. At least security has improved a little. I have spent almost 1.5-2 hours in security earlier last year. Couple of months back, it was around 20-30 mins, which is not bad.

The seatac rental car parking bus needs to make more stops. They just have two stops, and would be good if they make one stop in between.
 
Overthecascades
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 6:28 am

So, what's the latest status on the IAF? Are we already behind schedule? Is it even confirmed?
 
Prost
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 6:44 am

According to this:

https://www.portseattle.org/Business/Co ... vised.aspx

The project was to begin construction in the 1st quarter of 2017, but that must be utility work, as there are no visible signs of construction. Slated to open the fourth quarter of 2019, my guess is it will be in 2020 or early 2021.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 7:01 am

masgniw wrote:
1 - $30/day in the terminal is the going rate at most major airports. LAX, Boston, and SFO (in a short, random sample) are all $25-35...the list goes on and on.

Unless that's up-front parking, that's pure highway robbery for daily parking rates...do they wash/wax your car too? I'm all for capitalism as much as the next guy, but come on.
 
raddek
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:09 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 12:17 pm

Greater Seattle area needs a viable 2nd airport. Due to the growth of the area the last 20 years, Sea-Tac is not going to be enough. Paine Field would be brilliant if all those people who live close to it would stop bitching about everything there. Its annoying...
 
Bald1983
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 2:12 pm

flybynight wrote:
I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

1 - Favorite thing - ease of parking the car and getting quickly into/out the airport...but prices just went up again to $30/day
2 - Traffic - oh man can it bad leaving or coming. Leaving around 5'ish and getting on I5 or I405 can be a nightmare
3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming
7 - C'mon SEA, you charge enough. Make the upgrades to allow Emirates and LH to fly their A380's. And BA would likely consider it too, just like they did seasonally at YVR
8 - It seems to me that SEA seldom uses all three runways at the same time. Is it just me?

What I'd like to see:
1- Another proper exit from the airport. Perhaps south and directly onto to the 5
2 - Bigger food court and proper food courts in the S and N terminals.
3 - More shops
4 - Better ecstatic's. Overall the airport seems a little bush league


I suspect that Seattle would need several upgrades to take the A-380 and the issue is why spend the money to do it? At best a handful of flights, at best and the A-380 is not on its way to success, in any event.

There are no real amenities for people, outside the security areas. It is terrible for meeting people at the airport and i9ntentionally so, as they really do not want anyone there but ticketed passengers.
 
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flybynight
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 3:32 pm

dc10lover wrote:
Maybe people in Snohomish County and northward should use Bellingham Airport?


I think about that a lot since I live in Snohomish. The problem is that it just takes me back to SEA for most flights.
I really really wish BEL was a good alternative.
Or Paine Field could get some flights.
Heia Norge!
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 4:25 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
masgniw wrote:
1 - $30/day in the terminal is the going rate at most major airports. LAX, Boston, and SFO (in a short, random sample) are all $25-35...the list goes on and on.

Unless that's up-front parking, that's pure highway robbery for daily parking rates...do they wash/wax your car too? I'm all for capitalism as much as the next guy, but come on.


How is it highway robbery? Virtually all parking at SeaTac is all very very close to the terminal -- the walking difference between front row and worst case scenario is 5-10 min at most. It's also on par with other airports so I'm not sure why it's so outrageous.

The fact is that SeaTac has a nasty traffic problem and parking the central terminal is not helping. They've got a solid light rail system and incentivizing off-site parking (or not driving altogether) is one way to help alleviate the issue.
 
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flybynight
Topic Author
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 4:30 pm

masgniw wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
masgniw wrote:
1 - $30/day in the terminal is the going rate at most major airports. LAX, Boston, and SFO (in a short, random sample) are all $25-35...the list goes on and on.

Unless that's up-front parking, that's pure highway robbery for daily parking rates...do they wash/wax your car too? I'm all for capitalism as much as the next guy, but come on.


How is it highway robbery? Virtually all parking at SeaTac is all very very close to the terminal -- the walking difference between front row and worst case scenario is 5-10 min at most. It's also on par with other airports so I'm not sure why it's so outrageous.

The fact is that SeaTac has a nasty traffic problem and parking the central terminal is not helping. They've got a solid light rail system and incentivizing off-site parking (or not driving altogether) is one way to help alleviate the issue.

You're right, it isn't highway robbery, but it is still costly.

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.
Heia Norge!
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 5:30 pm

flybynight wrote:

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.


The other issue with the light rail system is they didn't run it to the terminal -- the closest it gets is about 1/4 mile from the northern most point of the terminal. If you're old, have a lot of baggage or didn't fly on Alaska it could be a difficult up to 1/2 mile+ walk. They should have put in moving walkways.
 
Tailwinds
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 5:48 pm

It's particularly difficult for SEA to use all three runways at the same time. Using south flow as an example, since it is by far the most common, for parallel arrivals they would land 16L and 16R and depart 16C. It can be done, but that means all departing traffic must cross 16L on the way out, and all traffic landing 16R must cross it on the way in. That's two streams of traffic crossing the runway. Unless 16L can be made to operate independently of the other runways, perhaps with an ATL-style end-around taxiway on the north and land-and-hold-short operation on the south, it'll never be the high-volume arrival runway it needs to be.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 5:53 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
flybynight wrote:

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.


The other issue with the light rail system is they didn't run it to the terminal -- the closest it gets is about 1/4 mile from the northern most point of the terminal. If you're old, have a lot of baggage or didn't fly on Alaska it could be a difficult up to 1/2 mile+ walk. They should have put in moving walkways.


Yep, and the weather in Seattle isn't necessarily compliant most of the year - 45 degrees and breezy doesn't make the walk through a parking garage all that enjoyable.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 6:26 pm

flybynight wrote:
masgniw wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Unless that's up-front parking, that's pure highway robbery for daily parking rates...do they wash/wax your car too? I'm all for capitalism as much as the next guy, but come on.


How is it highway robbery? Virtually all parking at SeaTac is all very very close to the terminal -- the walking difference between front row and worst case scenario is 5-10 min at most. It's also on par with other airports so I'm not sure why it's so outrageous.

The fact is that SeaTac has a nasty traffic problem and parking the central terminal is not helping. They've got a solid light rail system and incentivizing off-site parking (or not driving altogether) is one way to help alleviate the issue.

You're right, it isn't highway robbery, but it is still costly.

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.


Yea I'm slightly biased since I generally go to and from Ballard. But it's still a really good park-n-ride option for around the region. Coming from the eastside? There's plentiful free neighborhood street parking near the Beacon Hill stop. Coming from the south? There's neighborhood and long-term lots available near Angle Lake station, too.
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 6:28 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
flybynight wrote:

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.


The other issue with the light rail system is they didn't run it to the terminal -- the closest it gets is about 1/4 mile from the northern most point of the terminal. If you're old, have a lot of baggage or didn't fly on Alaska it could be a difficult up to 1/2 mile+ walk. They should have put in moving walkways.


Agree with moving walkways -- but it's really not that far.
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 6:29 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
flybynight wrote:

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.


The other issue with the light rail system is they didn't run it to the terminal -- the closest it gets is about 1/4 mile from the northern most point of the terminal. If you're old, have a lot of baggage or didn't fly on Alaska it could be a difficult up to 1/2 mile+ walk. They should have put in moving walkways.


Yep, and the weather in Seattle isn't necessarily compliant most of the year - 45 degrees and breezy doesn't make the walk through a parking garage all that enjoyable.


Maybe not but the heaters are forthcoming. An overhaul of the whole walkway is likely incoming: http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/port-to ... /469510613
 
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ER757
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 6:40 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
flybynight wrote:

The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.


The other issue with the light rail system is they didn't run it to the terminal -- the closest it gets is about 1/4 mile from the northern most point of the terminal. If you're old, have a lot of baggage or didn't fly on Alaska it could be a difficult up to 1/2 mile+ walk. They should have put in moving walkways.

They've started running a golf cart-like shuttle to/from the station and the northern skybridge on level four so those that can't or don't want to walk it can ride. It runs constantly from early morning well into the evening. Granted, a moving walkway would be a better option as it creates exponentially more capacity, but the shuttle is a start
 
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admanager
Posts: 247
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 7:47 pm

$30 is the daily rate for general parking in the garage attached to the terminal. If you choose to park on the 4th floor it's $37 a day (Terminal Direct). Makes off-airport parking pretty attractive.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 9:01 pm

I take the Light Rail to the airport all the time. The walk is no big deal.

I never get all this fuss about shopping and amenities. It's an airport not a shopping mall. I go there to fly someplace safely. If I want to shop, I'll go to Bel Square.

Restaurants are adequate. Again, if I want a fancy night out, I'll go somewhere else. I usually just want a little sustenance and beer or two prior to my flight, which is the real reason I'm at the airport. That Alaska pub is always full even on less peak times (e.g. a Thursday at 4pm) but that other pub farther south is usually fairly open.
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 9:40 pm

raddek wrote:
Greater Seattle area needs a viable 2nd airport. Due to the growth of the area the last 20 years, Sea-Tac is not going to be enough. Paine Field would be brilliant if all those people who live close to it would stop bitching about everything there. Its annoying...

Anyone remember 11-12 years ago WN went before the Port Authority with a plan to build their own terminal, concourses and parking structure at BFI? AS, AA, DL & UA threw a major fit over it :hissyfit:
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 9:48 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
raddek wrote:
Greater Seattle area needs a viable 2nd airport. Due to the growth of the area the last 20 years, Sea-Tac is not going to be enough. Paine Field would be brilliant if all those people who live close to it would stop bitching about everything there. Its annoying...

Anyone remember 11-12 years ago WN went before the Port Authority with a plan to build their own terminal, concourses and parking structure at BFI? AS, AA, DL & UA threw a major fit over it :hissyfit:


Another poster back then - DFW-something? - pointed out the conflicting flight paths as one reason it wasn't a good idea. Not sure how big of an issue that was but it likely would have affected flow at SEA and minimized the benefits of using BFI. The two area airports that would seem to make the most sense are PAE and JBLM. The former has faced a lot of local opposition and is likely decades from seeing light rail, while the latter is a military base that is heavily used and likely not open anytime soon to commercial use. I'm leaving Tanwax Lake out as that was basically in the middle of nowhere and had little support. There was also a proposal at one time (informal) to build a fill in Elliott Bay and put a runway out there. It was not popular then and would never happen today for a multitude of reasons.

I'd agree with those that think PAE is likely the best hope that the Puget Sound region has for a viable 2nd airport (vs something so rural that few want to use it).
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
SFOATLFlyer
Posts: 130
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 10:04 pm

flybynight wrote:
I fly in and out of SEA usually every other week, So I am there a lot.

But I feel SEA is struggling and with all the growth it feels far from world class.

1 - Favorite thing - ease of parking the car and getting quickly into/out the airport...but prices just went up again to $30/day
2 - Traffic - oh man can it bad leaving or coming. Leaving around 5'ish and getting on I5 or I405 can be a nightmare
3 - Amenities - to me it seems far behind, even when compared to PDX. I was just in DEN, and it blows SEA away
4 - Food court - nice enough. Needs to be bigger. Great place to sit and watch activity on the runway. And really, it needs to step it up in selection.
5 - lack of proper shopping especially for international travels.
6 - International terminal is seriously lacking. I know changes are coming
7 - C'mon SEA, you charge enough. Make the upgrades to allow Emirates and LH to fly their A380's. And BA would likely consider it too, just like they did seasonally at YVR
8 - It seems to me that SEA seldom uses all three runways at the same time. Is it just me?

What I'd like to see:
1- Another proper exit from the airport. Perhaps south and directly onto to the 5
2 - Bigger food court and proper food courts in the S and N terminals.
3 - More shops
4 - Better ecstatic's. Overall the airport seems a little bush league


My first post! I have to ask how you can consider SEA bush league? Yes it needs work. Meteoric growth in a very limited space is always going to be a challenge. I can think of a lot of airports with large traffic numbers that are less than desirable, but SEA is nowhere nearly as bad as you state.
 
bhill
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Fri May 12, 2017 11:21 pm

Pffft...take the Link rail....as for parking..there is A TON of offsite that will shuttle you to the terminal. It's an AIRPORT!! for catching a flight to somewhere else...not a shopping center or culinary hub!!
Carpe Pices
 
LH707330
Posts: 2210
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 3:29 am

I don't mind the walk to the light rail, it wakes me up after long flights! That said, I could see how it'd be a PITA for people with mobility impairments. What irks me are the long security and immigration lines (especially in the lunch rush), the rest is manageable.

Traffic around Seattle overall is garbage, that's why I mostly ride my bike everywhere now, it's often faster. From my old office in Bellevue to home in the CD was 35 mins, try doing that in a car at 1700.

The 380 won't happen anytime soon because of the spacing. I'm hoping that LH eventually does a 748, but their 744s have been pretty empty up front the last two times I took them, albeit in the winter.

BFI would indeed mess with the right traffic downwind during south flow, unless they space arrivals at different altitudes to get BFI traffic under the SEA traffic. Either way, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4002
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 4:03 am

The food at SEA is horribly bad. The only thing ok is wolfgang puck pizza. Most of the "restaurants especially in N don't even have kitchens.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 4:09 am

was just at SEA last week and will be there again in July, totally agree about the food choices. I ended up pacing around a bit, boarded my flight, and grabbed something to eat at SLC.
 
dashdrvr
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 5:09 am

Having conducting flight operations in and out of SEA since 1980 I hope the airport doesn't improve. The improvements needed to address all the above would be so extensive, disruptive, and for so long it would be unbearable. I lived through the 16R added runway and the remove and replace 16C and 16L. Guess what the delays are worse now than before. More and bigger is not better. It meerly enables the Port of Seattle to perpetuate the distunction of under capacity on a grander scale.
 
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ER757
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 1:32 pm

Was at SEA yesterday and spoke to an administrator at POS about a couple of the topics in this thread and thought I'd pass along what I was told

Yes, the construction work on the south side for the International expansion has start and it is mostly "behind the scenes" at this point.
No, there is no plan to make the airport A-380 ready anytime soon
The shuttle to/from the light rail station may continue on past skybridge #6 at some point but as of now that's as far as they go (makes for one heck of a hike if you're flying out of the A concourse or the South Satellite!)
New cruise ship passenger staging area on level 1 of the parking garage is up and running - I took a look and it's pretty nice. Pax can check their bags for their return flight while still on the ship and don't have to recover them and check them when they arrive at the airport any longer
North Satellite expansion work is progressing on schedule so far.

That's it for now
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5818
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Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 1:59 pm

dashdrvr wrote:
Having conducting flight operations in and out of SEA since 1980 I hope the airport doesn't improve. The improvements needed to address all the above would be so extensive, disruptive, and for so long it would be unbearable.


Do you perhaps have good familiarity with BOS both before and after the Logan 2000 projects. I chided some local friends - the name seemed to indicate 2000 more days of construction. But the airport really is vastly better off for that disruption and investment. The Ted Tunnel makes access & departure a lot better; the Delta (+WN) terminal is really nice. Massport carved out enough space to give JetBlue the opportunity to become the #1 carrier by passengers (and brought better service and lower prices).

As for a 2nd airport for the metro, that would stunt Sea-Tac and forever diminish the number of viable non-stop destinations for the area. The primary role of a hub airport is to aggregate traffic. Spreading demand over two airports (like ORD/MDW, IAH/HOU) or three (LGA/JFK/EWR, BWI/DCA/IAD) means some destination airports won't have enough passengers to meet a minimum increment of capacity (50 for short-range domestic flights, maybe 160 on a 738 for domestic, and ~210 for a 767 for intercon). Delta alone at ATL has nearly as many non-stop destinations (219 per a 4/17 fact sheet) as all carriers combined from all five PANYNJ NYC airports (229). The Census Bureau puts the NYC MSA population at 20.1 million on 1/1/16; ATL was #9 in the U.S. at 5.8 million.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... N_2017.pdf
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 3:01 pm

bhill wrote:
Pffft...take the Link rail....as for parking..there is A TON of offsite that will shuttle you to the terminal. It's an AIRPORT!! for catching a flight to somewhere else...not a shopping center or culinary hub!!


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3127
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 4:40 pm

Engineering and construction staging during major remodeling has greatly improved over the last 50 years. The disruption to continuing operations is minimal compared with the past. Whereas once it was haphazardly makeshift, money (hopefully not too much) is now spent if needed for temporary detours, crowd and moving vehicles(including planes) traffic are understood better, with better lighting more work is done at night time etc.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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maxlg
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:17 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 5:30 pm

flybynight wrote:
Prost wrote:
In Seattle, us locals never say 'the 5.' In LA, yes, but in Seattle, it's just I-5, or I-405, never 'the' in front of it. One of our many quirks.

A southern access point to the freeways is going to occur with the continuation it SR-509 to I-5, intersecting around Kent/DesMoines road.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/sr ... ionrelief/
http://www.ci.seatac.wa.us/Modules/Show ... entid=6913

Like everything else in this neck of the woods, if you think it should happen in 2-3 years, it'll be done in 10.


Haha, yes, I know. I live here too. But I actually call it both I90, I405 and I5 as well using the dreaded "the" word.

Interesting to see the updates to the N Terminal.

But the question that remains unanswered - are the runways at SEA that much closer than SFO? If landings were taking place on L and R, couldn't takeoffs occur right down in the middle on C?


Someone might have already said this as I haven't read the whole thread but the far, third runway (I believe 34R) from the terminals was built as a bad weather runway at least when it was proposed in 1988.

http://historylink.org/File/4211
A article on the third runway project.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4951
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 5:56 pm

flybynight wrote:
The solid light rail I will disagree with. If you're going into downtown Seattle it is fine, but nowhere else. That is coming, but it won't be for over 10 years.
masgniw wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
The fact is that SeaTac has a nasty traffic problem and parking the central terminal is not helping. They've got a solid light rail system and incentivizing off-site parking (or not driving altogether) is one way to help alleviate the issue.

The Seattle light-rail system, compared to those of other metros, is a joke. Portland got it right, Seattle got it very wrong. Considering that half of the metro area has zero light rail service. The "Tac" part won't have any for another 15-20ish years. I agree that the worst thing about SEA is the traffic. Sure, you can get onto 518, but any time after noon that's likely as not to be a standstill, and otherwise all traffic from the airport basically gets dumped onto surface streets. The area was just never ready for the kind of airport SEA became. It was bad enough before the DL hub.
 
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RL777
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:43 am

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 6:51 pm

SeaTac is one of my favorite airports despite many parts of it being inefficient and poorly designed. SEA traffic is indeed a joke and I don't even think about driving unless my flight departs/arrives late at night. The light rail system does indeed leave much to be desired but I believe the Port Authority is at least committed to the program and its reasonable to expect potential upgrades in the future. As per the A380 issue, even though Emirates has mentioned they would prefer to send a single frequency using the A388 the authority has said they won't be making the necessary changes to allow for scheduled service as the costs and logistics far outweigh the needs of a single airline.
 
masgniw
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: SEA...those upgrades are really needed

Sat May 13, 2017 7:11 pm

HPRamper wrote:
The Seattle light-rail system, compared to those of other metros, is a joke. Portland got it right, Seattle got it very wrong. Considering that half of the metro area has zero light rail service.


I don't understand this logic at all. Do you expect that light rail is just supposed to appear overnight to your doorstep? It's a long haul to get rail to a city that dragged its feet on the matter for decades. The network is growing and is doing so on schedule.

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