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workhorse
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 4:51 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Wow that is nuts - given this is Russia, I'm sure the pax were kept aboard the plane. In any case I wonder how many hotel rooms of reasonable quality there are in a place like Bratsk, even if they were let off the plane. For J class pax it would be ok - but omg I cannot fathom being stuck in economy class on a diversion like this - yikes!


Bratsk airport is officially international (although currently there are no scheduled international flights out of there), so, if needed, local authorities definitely could process the pax from the ANA flight.

Also, it is a city with 230 000 population, so there definitely are enough hotel rooms for 133 people (as for quality: this may not be a Hilton, but it will surely be much better than an economy class seat on a 787!). The city itself is not bad at all, it is very green, has theaters, shopping malls and the countryside around is lovely.

That ANA choose, for whatever reasons, not to deplane is another story.
 
workhorse
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 4:52 pm

Duplicate - DELETE
 
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NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1351
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 7:49 pm

eisenbach wrote:
LJ wrote:
ILUVDC10S wrote:
Noticed how they did not fly over N Korea or China they danced around Chinese airspace and went directly into Russian airspace speaks volumes eh?


Not really, it's quite normal to save overflight costs by reducing the number of countries which one overflies. Nothing political intended but probably purely commercially motivated.


Further than that - North Korea is not really much on the route and the Chinese airspace is always a pain, thus avoided by airlines (not many air routes and very frequent short term closures due to military reasons).


Delta Air Lines had a 747 which was flying to Seoul, Korea, that requested to divert around an active storm. The Chinese denied the request and the aircraft was heavily damaged by large hail. It did make Seoul, Korea. It never flew in revenue service again. Temporary repairs were made and the aircraft was flown to MHV for permeant storage and retirement. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 7:53 pm

NWAROOSTER wrote:
eisenbach wrote:
LJ wrote:

Not really, it's quite normal to save overflight costs by reducing the number of countries which one overflies. Nothing political intended but probably purely commercially motivated.


Further than that - North Korea is not really much on the route and the Chinese airspace is always a pain, thus avoided by airlines (not many air routes and very frequent short term closures due to military reasons).


Delta Air Lines had a 747 which was flying to Seoul, Korea, that requested to divert around an active storm. The Chinese denied the request and the aircraft was heavily damaged by large hail. It did make Seoul, Korea. It never flew in revenue service again. Temporary repairs were made and the aircraft was flown to MHV for permeant storage and retirement. :old:

And DL wants to use ICN as a hub YIKES ! Where is the DL safety department huh ? On a endless Georgia afternoon siesta ! crikey what is ti going to take to get thru to the DL brass they are making a mistake!
 
thegman
Posts: 513
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 8:03 pm

B777LRF wrote:

Your idea may just take the biscuit as the most stupid one this site.

I wouldn't say it's the most stupid, it's just ignorant.

This guy is looking at the problem through the lens of someone who has never been trained to fly an airliner.
 
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eisenbach
Topic Author
Posts: 202
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 8:07 pm

paul101 wrote:
Good Forum guys very informative,

I was on ANA 787, landing was a bit harsh but nothing particularly out of the ordinary.

Engine is leaking oil onto the runway, pic attached

Image


Thanks for the good photo! It seems to be a rather small oil leak.

May you give us more insight about the event (information policy, accommodation and (food) supply)?

Thanks so much,

eisenbach
DC-6, DC9, Do228, Saab340, Twin-Otter, C212, Fokker50, AN24, MD90, MD83, EMB120, A380, A300, A343, A346, B721, B742, B744, B748...
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 8:30 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
ILUVDC10S wrote:
B777LRF wrote:

You couldn't be more wrong. First of all, you don't go about carrying out experimental flights on a scheduled commercial service. Never. Secondly, whilst twin engine aircraft are wonderfully economic to operate, they do come with the inherent that a loss of one is an emergency. Not an inconvenience, not an operational challenge, not a mildly distressing event, it's an emergency. Thirdly, whilst the routing was over land, suitable diversion airfields are few and far apart in that part of the world. It's not like the US or Europe, where you overfly a suitable runway every 15 minutes. In Siberia, it could be hours. Last, but not least, you might have noticed the aircraft dropped around 10.000ft and lost a bit of airspeed. That increases both time to destination and fuel burn; the one engine carrying the whole load will be working much harder; the aircraft will be yawing and therefore suffer from increased drag; it's flying through 'thicker' air in the lower altitudes, meaning more drag and higher fuel burn. They most certainly wouldn't have fuel for DUS from the point the lost an engine, not by a long shot.

Your idea may just take the biscuit as the most stupid one this site.


Gotcha. Thank you for the explanation on that. I did learn something from that post FYI . Just was thinking how one would perform said experiment without doing it in actual operations ? could this situation be replicated in testing in Washington State or South Carolina ? with exact passenger load and cargo onboard and full fuel load or at the engine manufacturer ? I am asking a serious question here ..


The 787 is capable of flying for 330 minutes on a single engine. The plane could have continued flying. However, there is too much risk if another failure happens.

The pilots must follow the Flight Crew Operations Manual / Quick Referece Handbook. It is going to tell the pilots to land at the nearest suitable alternate airport. There is no question there. The airplane is designed to be able to be flown for 330 minutes (given sufficient fuel), but the pilots must find the nearest suitable airport. The FAA or in this case JCAB establishes definitions of suitable alternate with the airline. It usually means an airport with a sufficiently long runway, acceptable weather and basic accommodations. As we have seen from some diversions in Alaska accommodations might be a warehouse, forklift and fire truck, but in any case the plane must get on the ground as quick as reasonably possible.



The 330 minutes you have quoted is not a fuel/power plant limitation as you may have implied, but rather a cargo fire suppression limitation. In theory the airplane would fly for hours more if it had fuel. I doubt that ANA dispatched this flight under 330 ETOPS rules. Probably 180 ETOPS. About the only place in the world where you encounter the need for 330 minutes is way down low in the southern hemisphere.
 
Kilopond
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 9:01 pm

paul101 wrote:
[...]I was on ANA 787[...]


Thank you for sharing your first-hand experience!

How was the mood among passengers? Did they suffer bitterly? Or did some of them appriciate the exemplary airmanship of the ANA pilots who had put priority on safety instead of company profits? (That had been a very expensive stopover!).

eisenbach wrote:
[...]May you give us more insight about the event[...]


Yes, exactly my thaught, this would be very interesting. At least, I failed to find any report about an American-style hysteria that could have broken out.
 
Flyglobal
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:25 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 9:34 pm

In a German Forum 'Vielfliegertreff', the event was also discussed.
http://www.vielfliegertreff.de/airlines ... den-2.html
#33 and #36 have the best information for the ones who can read German. (I guess almost all forum members)

Handling of ANA was extremely professional.

Food supply until ANA on Board supplies were gone, but additional local supplies have been arranged.
ANA did not want to have people going out, because they feared the airports toilets would have been worse than the ones at the plane.
But Russian staff made also support where they could- in case of a longer stay accommodation would have been arranged, but was not needed.

The reserve Plane came in with 17 additional ANA Crew members. They assisted in changing the luggage of the plane and had special support with them. I guess loading equipment.

After landing in DUS the 17 crew members went to the front of the plane and said good bye to each passenger and handed a letter of apology to each with an envelope having 600 Euros for each passenger.

Amazing.

Flyglobal

PS:
Proposal: Maybe UA should send their staff to ANA for training and some cultural exchange (one direction only please).
 
Tedd
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:22 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 10:37 pm

eisenbach wrote:
paul101 wrote:
Good Forum guys very informative,

I was on ANA 787, landing was a bit harsh but nothing particularly out of the ordinary.

Engine is leaking oil onto the runway, pic attached

Image


Thanks for the good photo! It seems to be a rather small oil leak.


May you give us more insight about the event (information policy, accommodation and (food) supply)?

Thanks so much,

eisenbach


It may be that there wasn`t any more oil to come out! I`m no turbine expert, but with any engine needing oil,
any loss is not good, hence the quick shutdown. These turbines may not require a large reservoir of oil, I`m
hoping that as there is evidence of oil on the tarmac, that there`s a chance this engine may not be too badly
damaged......for RR`s sake & for ANA in that it can return to service quickly.
 
paul101
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:00 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Sun May 14, 2017 10:59 pm

It was all very calm actually and I would endorse the comments made in the German Forum that the crew were very professional and very apologetic. The incident took place when most passengers were sleeping and the first we knew of a problem was when the lights came on and the message came that there had been a system malfunction but that it was now all working ok and nothing to worry about. On the maps though it was showing that we were landing at Bratsk in 30mins and we had dropped from 40000 ft to 23000 ft but it was around another 15 minutes till we actually got the announcement that there was a problem with the aircraft and that we were landing at Bratsk as a precaution. As we came into land it did appear that we were landing on an airstrip in the middle of a forest and I did wonder if the runway would be long enough but it was all played very low key and there was certainly no panic. The point at which most of us realised the seriousness of the situation was when we were actually on the runway and there was a line of fire trucks and ambulances on standby. Fortunately they were not needed thanks to the skill of the pilot. The locals offered to provide food at a local restaurant but ANA decided they would prefer to keep the passengers on the plane, however we were able to disembark and walk on the apron although it was quite cold and not many people took the opportunity. The food supplied was airline quality sandwich and piece of bread, nothing special but quite edible. Anyway it was an experience to watch the sunrise over the Siberian horizon the next morning and although the delay overall was around 18 hours there were plenty of movies to watch, wine to drink, and the fact that the plane wasn't very crowded helped a great deal. We did make it to the terminal building when we were changing planes at which point one of the passengers brought out his violin and entertained us all. I can confirm the 600 euros given to each passenger together with an apologetic letter was most appreciated. Overall what could have been a very difficult experience was made bearable by the very hard working crew. Even as we waited in the terminal building they were organising drinks and snacks for everyone that they had brought from the plane. Well done to ANA for bringing us all home safely.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3687
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Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Mon May 15, 2017 8:11 am

ILUVDC10S wrote:
NWAROOSTER wrote:
eisenbach wrote:

Further than that - North Korea is not really much on the route and the Chinese airspace is always a pain, thus avoided by airlines (not many air routes and very frequent short term closures due to military reasons).


Delta Air Lines had a 747 which was flying to Seoul, Korea, that requested to divert around an active storm. The Chinese denied the request and the aircraft was heavily damaged by large hail. It did make Seoul, Korea. It never flew in revenue service again. Temporary repairs were made and the aircraft was flown to MHV for permeant storage and retirement. :old:

And DL wants to use ICN as a hub YIKES ! Where is the DL safety department huh ? On a endless Georgia afternoon siesta ! crikey what is ti going to take to get thru to the DL brass they are making a mistake!


Because a 747 encountered a hailstorm over China, this somehow makes ICN a bad airport? Okay...
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TurboJet707
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:30 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Mon May 15, 2017 9:02 am

Thanks Paul for the picture and the inside info!

On a side note: for the usual bunch of plane spotters at Bratsk airport (if any) this must have been quite an event :-)
I can imagine they don't get to see a Japanese 787 in real life too often!
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1759
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Mon May 15, 2017 6:55 pm

paul101 wrote:
It was all very calm actually and I would endorse the comments made in the German Forum that the crew were very professional and very apologetic. The incident took place when most passengers were sleeping and the first we knew of a problem was when the lights came on and the message came that there had been a system malfunction but that it was now all working ok and nothing to worry about. On the maps though it was showing that we were landing at Bratsk in 30mins and we had dropped from 40000 ft to 23000 ft but it was around another 15 minutes till we actually got the announcement that there was a problem with the aircraft and that we were landing at Bratsk as a precaution. As we came into land it did appear that we were landing on an airstrip in the middle of a forest and I did wonder if the runway would be long enough but it was all played very low key and there was certainly no panic. The point at which most of us realised the seriousness of the situation was when we were actually on the runway and there was a line of fire trucks and ambulances on standby. Fortunately they were not needed thanks to the skill of the pilot. The locals offered to provide food at a local restaurant but ANA decided they would prefer to keep the passengers on the plane, however we were able to disembark and walk on the apron although it was quite cold and not many people took the opportunity. The food supplied was airline quality sandwich and piece of bread, nothing special but quite edible. Anyway it was an experience to watch the sunrise over the Siberian horizon the next morning and although the delay overall was around 18 hours there were plenty of movies to watch, wine to drink, and the fact that the plane wasn't very crowded helped a great deal. We did make it to the terminal building when we were changing planes at which point one of the passengers brought out his violin and entertained us all. I can confirm the 600 euros given to each passenger together with an apologetic letter was most appreciated. Overall what could have been a very difficult experience was made bearable by the very hard working crew. Even as we waited in the terminal building they were organising drinks and snacks for everyone that they had brought from the plane. Well done to ANA for bringing us all home safely.


Wow - very interesting. Thank you for joining a.net (welcome!) and for sharing your experience! Seems ANA did about as well as they could've. Incredibly nice gesture to give EUR 600 per passenger as well, that will go a long away in maintaining goodwill. Any more pics you can share of the terminal, catering, etc? Thank you again for sharing. I've always wondering what a diversion like this would be like. And now I know more than I ever thought I would!
 
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tistpaa727
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 5:23 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Mon May 15, 2017 7:24 pm

paul101 wrote:
Good Forum guys very informative,

I was on ANA 787, landing was a bit harsh but nothing particularly out of the ordinary.

Engine is leaking oil onto the runway, pic attached

Image


Thanks for coming onto the forum to share your pic! Glad you made it safely.
Don't sweat the little things.
 
aviationjunky
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Mon May 15, 2017 8:41 pm

workhorse wrote:
Duplicate - DELETE


I'm gonna go ahead and say if you're the 52nd reply, I don't think the post is a duplicate at that point.
LAS is Life
 
crazyplane1234
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:58 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Mon May 15, 2017 10:49 pm

aviationjunky wrote:

I'm gonna go ahead and say if you're the 52nd reply, I don't think the post is a duplicate at that point.

He meant to say that he accidentally double-posted.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: ANA 787 engine troubles - emergency landing in Siberia

Tue May 16, 2017 1:33 am

ILUVDC10S wrote:
And DL wants to use ICN as a hub YIKES ! Where is the DL safety department huh ? On a endless Georgia afternoon siesta ! crikey what is ti going to take to get thru to the DL brass they are making a mistake!


Well let's be realistic. How many flights will DL actually be operating to ICN in 2-3 years? They will be perfectly happy to sell tickets while KE does most of the heavy lifting of operating flights. A business model best described as a "virtual airline".

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