nitepilot79
Topic Author
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:28 pm

An African-American woman who used her traveler status for an upgrade for her and her friend was automatically put in the back, yet the white friend was "left" in F when there weren't enough seats in that section. Not saying it was necessarily intentional, but you'd think that since the African-American woman was the one with the elevated status, she shouldn't have been the one to be automatically moved to Y by the airline.

If anything, it should have been the person who has the generous friend to be automatically moved. Or at least the two could've been told ahead of time by someone so that they had the option of choosing who got the upgrade between themselves, as it sounds like the people at the airline knew about the seating issue even before the plane was boarded:

https://www.popsugar.com/news/American- ... e-43522246

Article quote:

"The story begins on May 2 on an American Airlines flight from Kentucky to Charlotte, NC. Rane Baldwin, a black woman, used her credit card and American Airlines traveler status to upgrade her seat and her friend's to first class. However, when they scanned their tickets at the gate, Baldwin was given a new one with a seat at the back of the plane. Further, she says her friend, Janet Novack, a white woman, didn't have to change her seat."

"Novack explained that whenever Baldwin asked questions, she was ignored by the staff. However, when Novack asked anything, she was answered. She says Baldwin moved up to the front of the main cabin at one point and Novack joined her. But, Novack claims, the staff was confused as to why Novack would leave her first-class seat and told her she didn't 'have to' sit next to Baldwin."
 
BatonOps
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:36 pm

Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.
 
PanzerPowner
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:38 pm

BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.

I'm not sick with this one, but i was with the last United incident, wait how many United incidents have there been now?
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:47 pm

BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.



OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1735
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:47 pm

if there is an aircraft downgauge or change, I don't believe the system takes race into consideration.. if your seat/row is no longer there, its just not there.

so if they went from a CRJ 900 to CRJ 700 or something (not sure of the configurations), but I know that some planes have may have only 6/12/16 seats in F.
xx
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:48 pm

usxguy wrote:
if there is an aircraft downgauge or change, I don't believe the system takes race into consideration.. F.



Well apparently it did in this case. Implicit bias, meaning that some are less fit to fly in the front of the plane. They don't even have to consciously do it. Its just impressed upon their brains as to who looks the part and who doesn't.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:50 pm

guyanam wrote:
BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.



OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.


How did the system know she was black? Or which of them was black? If both tickets were on the same itinerary, perhaps it selects the first name of record on the reservation that is requiring a downgrade? Maybe it chooses to downgrade the person who paid as they don't want to insult their "guest" by sending them to the back (like in my house, if I don't have enough chairs for a group to sit on at the dinner table, I'd be the one to use a tray or just stand rather than make my "guest" do so).

So many questions as always. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly for her and to her satisfaction.
Last edited by PlanesNTrains on Fri May 12, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:50 pm

usxguy wrote:
if there is an aircraft downgauge or change, I don't believe the system takes race into consideration.. if your seat/row is no longer there, its just not there.

so if they went from a CRJ 900 to CRJ 700 or something (not sure of the configurations), but I know that some planes have may have only 6/12/16 seats in F.


Yeah, the story, if true, is way more than about someone getting bumped. If the gate agents really behaved this way then American is in for a very long remainder of the month.
 
nitepilot79
Topic Author
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:54 pm

usxguy wrote:
... if your seat/row is no longer there, its just not there.


But there was a seat available and it was given to the non-status person.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:54 pm

guyanam wrote:
usxguy wrote:
if there is an aircraft downgauge or change, I don't believe the system takes race into consideration.. F.



Well apparently it did in this case. Implicit bias, meaning that some are less fit to fly in the front of the plane. They don't even have to consciously do it. Its just impressed upon their brains as to who looks the part and who doesn't.


And you know that happened how?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:57 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
guyanam wrote:
BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.



OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.


How did the system know she was black? Or which of them was black? If both tickets were on the same itinerary, perhaps it selects the first name of record on the reservation that is requiring a downgrade? Maybe it chooses to downgrade the person who paid as they don't want to insult their "guest" by sending them to the back (like in my house, if I don't have enough chairs for a group to sit on at the dinner table, I'd be the one to use a tray or just stand rather than make my "guest" do so).

So many questions as always. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly for her and to her satisfaction.


It's more than the system. She clearly went to the gate and talked to the agents. Her friend is backing her story too.
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 5:58 pm

The airline drama saga continues UGH!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:02 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
guyanam wrote:


OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.


How did the system know she was black? Or which of them was black? If both tickets were on the same itinerary, perhaps it selects the first name of record on the reservation that is requiring a downgrade? Maybe it chooses to downgrade the person who paid as they don't want to insult their "guest" by sending them to the back (like in my house, if I don't have enough chairs for a group to sit on at the dinner table, I'd be the one to use a tray or just stand rather than make my "guest" do so).

So many questions as always. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly for her and to her satisfaction.


It's more than the system. She clearly went to the gate and talked to the agents. Her friend is backing her story too.


Can you tell me where it says that happened BEFORE she was selected? She says that when she arrived at the gate and scanned her ticket, her seat assignment had been changed. I'm not denying that what she said is true - I'm asking for clarity on the facts as all we have is the story in the link.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:05 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

How did the system know she was black? Or which of them was black? If both tickets were on the same itinerary, perhaps it selects the first name of record on the reservation that is requiring a downgrade? Maybe it chooses to downgrade the person who paid as they don't want to insult their "guest" by sending them to the back (like in my house, if I don't have enough chairs for a group to sit on at the dinner table, I'd be the one to use a tray or just stand rather than make my "guest" do so).

So many questions as always. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly for her and to her satisfaction.


It's more than the system. She clearly went to the gate and talked to the agents. Her friend is backing her story too.


Can you tell me where it says that happened BEFORE she was selected? She says that when she arrived at the gate and scanned her ticket, her seat assignment had been changed. I'm not denying that what she said is true - I'm asking for clarity on the facts as all we have is the story in the link.


I wasn't there. I'm sure as this balloons outward we're going to find out.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:11 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

It's more than the system. She clearly went to the gate and talked to the agents. Her friend is backing her story too.


Can you tell me where it says that happened BEFORE she was selected? She says that when she arrived at the gate and scanned her ticket, her seat assignment had been changed. I'm not denying that what she said is true - I'm asking for clarity on the facts as all we have is the story in the link.


I wasn't there. I'm sure as this balloons outward we're going to find out.


I wish I had as much faith as you do. Typically these things get buried pretty quickly. If the airline was to blame, they'll resolve it as quickly as possible (post-Dao). If the woman is stretching the truth or misinterpreting, she'll quickly take a free flight and be done with it. Either way we will likely never know the full story.

BTW, just to show that this crap is far from an airline monopoly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2r3Lb-HdhI
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:19 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Can you tell me where it says that happened BEFORE she was selected? She says that when she arrived at the gate and scanned her ticket, her seat assignment had been changed. I'm not denying that what she said is true - I'm asking for clarity on the facts as all we have is the story in the link.


I wasn't there. I'm sure as this balloons outward we're going to find out.


I wish I had as much faith as you do. Typically these things get buried pretty quickly. If the airline was to blame, they'll resolve it as quickly as possible (post-Dao). If the woman is stretching the truth or misinterpreting, she'll quickly take a free flight and be done with it. Either way we will likely never know the full story.

BTW, just to show that this crap is far from an airline monopoly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2r3Lb-HdhI


I hope you are right but anything to do with race in the United States has a tendency to become top-shelf news rapidly even if the situation was misinterpreted. If it moves off of PopSugar and Root to CNN and the New York Times then we will likely get the broader picture.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2201
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:26 pm

guyanam wrote:
BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.



OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.


As a White male who has been pushed (I believe unfairly) many times and I did not offer--nor did a hear--any scream at any time. You shrug and walk. I don't think the gate agents have time to sit and ponder these things.
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1570
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:34 pm

BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.


I honestly don't understand this mentality? If a person thinks they were wronged and the Airline didn't attempt to make it right, what else are they to do? I'm not saying this is the case here, but this forum is so quick to just blame the PAX and assume that they just want to scam the airline or get their 15 minutes of fame.
@DadCelo
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1759
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 6:40 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
guyanam wrote:
BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.



OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.


As a White male who has been pushed (I believe unfairly) many times and I did not offer--nor did a hear--any scream at any time. You shrug and walk. I don't think the gate agents have time to sit and ponder these things.


Why should she shrug and walk away? Did she not pay for something she did not get? I so would not have shrugged and walked away either.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3533
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:04 pm

Lots of ignorance on this thread. These decisions are not at the discretion of the gate agent. There is at all times a priority list for who is first and who is last on the list, even for confirmed passengers. It's likely that her friend checked in before her and because the likely paid the exact same fare that would be the tiebreaker.

I travel with my wife very frequently, she gets upgrades before me because her first name is earlier in the alphabet than mine (we always check in together so that doesn't break the tie). It's not bias, it's just the fact that there has to be a tiebreaker.
Last edited by Rdh3e on Fri May 12, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Calder
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:34 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:04 pm

I bet that if we took all the flights occurring within a 24 hour period and checked them, there are at least a few scenarios identical to this one.
C. T.
 
Junction
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:07 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.


I honestly don't understand this mentality? If a person thinks they were wronged and the Airline didn't attempt to make it right, what else are they to do? I'm not saying this is the case here, but this forum is so quick to just blame the PAX and assume that they just want to scam the airline or get their 15 minutes of fame.

I guess a separate section to debate airline customer service issues would be a good proposal. This particular forum was once more of a place to get inside scoop about airlines from an audience of aviation enthusiasts rather than a place to debate social issues already reported in mainstream media.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:09 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
Lots of ignorance on this thread. These decisions are not at the discretion of the gate agent. There is at all times a priority list for who is first and who is last on the list, even for confirmed passengers. It's likely that her friend checked in before her and because the likely paid the exact same fare that would be the tiebreaker.

I travel with my wife very frequently, she gets upgrades before me because her first name is earlier in the alphabet than mine (we always check in together so that doesn't break the tie). It's not bias, it's just the fact that there has to be a tiebreaker.


Read the article. Looking at this response I don't believe you have.
 
nitepilot79
Topic Author
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:28 pm

Just to clarify, I never said that this incident was definitely racially motivated. Certainly I realize that it has to go through the system first, and computers aren't racist. Furthermore, I don't think this was necessarily a racially motivated incident perpetrated by any employee(s). My main complaint is that seemingly, somehow not a single person from the airline noticed (cared?) that one of their regular customers was getting moved from F to Y with almost no notice. Surely that showed up in the system...
 
nitepilot79
Topic Author
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
Lots of ignorance on this thread. These decisions are not at the discretion of the gate agent. There is at all times a priority list for who is first and who is last on the list, even for confirmed passengers. It's likely that her friend checked in before her and because the likely paid the exact same fare that would be the tiebreaker.

I travel with my wife very frequently, she gets upgrades before me because her first name is earlier in the alphabet than mine (we always check in together so that doesn't break the tie). It's not bias, it's just the fact that there has to be a tiebreaker.


No offense to you, but I have to say that the "tie breaker" philosophy screwed a regular customer, a very regular customer at that - well, not anymore, I'd imagine. Seems like a dumb way to operate.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2201
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 7:53 pm

nitepilot79 wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Lots of ignorance on this thread. These decisions are not at the discretion of the gate agent. There is at all times a priority list for who is first and who is last on the list, even for confirmed passengers. It's likely that her friend checked in before her and because the likely paid the exact same fare that would be the tiebreaker.

I travel with my wife very frequently, she gets upgrades before me because her first name is earlier in the alphabet than mine (we always check in together so that doesn't break the tie). It's not bias, it's just the fact that there has to be a tiebreaker.


No offense to you, but I have to say that the "tie breaker" philosophy screwed a regular customer, a very regular customer at that - well, not anymore, I'd imagine. Seems like a dumb way to operate.


Tie breakers by the fact things are even usually screw over the person who did not get the breaker. And with about 175K miles on DL this year, I have lost my share of them. I like to think I am a very regular customer and highly valued.
 
flymia
Posts: 7109
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 8:03 pm

Don't people realize a COMPUTER makes this choice not a person. The computer has no idea what race you are, or what religion you are. Also, its pretty clear she did not pay for a first class ticket, she upgraded, whether with miles or status. Things like this happen all the time. If she used miles to upgrade, she will get the miles back. If she used status to upgrade, well she should know this type of stuff happens.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 8:25 pm

flymia wrote:
Don't people realize a COMPUTER makes this choice not a person. The computer has no idea what race you are, or what religion you are. Also, its pretty clear she did not pay for a first class ticket, she upgraded, whether with miles or status. Things like this happen all the time. If she used miles to upgrade, she will get the miles back. If she used status to upgrade, well she should know this type of stuff happens.


I think the problems can start when the employees are not self-aware or customer-focused enough to pick up on the customer's distress or their own negative/neutral vibe. If - IF - she was trying to talk to employees and they weren't responding, but yet were responding to her friend, then she might have felt slighted or singled out. Of course, as always, we don't know the full story.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 3586
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:25 pm

Please keep the thread on topic. If users want to discuss site related issues, there is a separate forum for you to do so. Furthermore, no one is forcing users to read and comment on threads like this, so please only post if you wish to contribute to the discussion. I agree that we're all tired of stories like these, but they can be easily skimmed over and ignored it that is your prerogative.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
Shields
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:30 pm

This article adds some additional information that undermines allegations of racism.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com ... ines-true/
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:34 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
flymia wrote:
Don't people realize a COMPUTER makes this choice not a person. The computer has no idea what race you are, or what religion you are. Also, its pretty clear she did not pay for a first class ticket, she upgraded, whether with miles or status. Things like this happen all the time. If she used miles to upgrade, she will get the miles back. If she used status to upgrade, well she should know this type of stuff happens.


I think the problems can start when the employees are not self-aware or customer-focused enough to pick up on the customer's distress or their own negative/neutral vibe. If - IF - she was trying to talk to employees and they weren't responding, but yet were responding to her friend, then she might have felt slighted or singled out. Of course, as always, we don't know the full story.


This. Empathy and perhaps employee attitude are the problems here. Anybody who flies even somewhat regularly knows that stuff happens from time to time. I remember being upset about losing an exit row seat on a PSA CR7 (back when they were all Y, which tells you it was a while ago) at the gate and then getting on the airplane and the seat literally being missing. The agent had been nice about it and had changed me from an aisle toward the front to a window toward the back at my request, so my annoyance was at the situation, not the agent. I can guarantee that if the agent had not been as nice, I would not have been as nice.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ScottB
Posts: 6641
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:34 pm

nitepilot79 wrote:
An African-American woman who used her traveler status for an upgrade for her and her friend was automatically put in the back, yet the white friend was "left" in F when there weren't enough seats in that section. Not saying it was necessarily intentional, but you'd think that since the African-American woman was the one with the elevated status, she shouldn't have been the one to be automatically moved to Y by the airline.


From reading through the description on The Root (I hesitate to call it an article), the woman with "traveler status" doesn't have elite status in the AAdvantage program, but rather is a cardholder of one of the affinity credit cards (either through Citibank or Barclays). The story says the African-American woman "upgraded" the tickets, so presumably she used miles or bought an upgrade offered at check-in. The flight is normally operated by a CR9 but that morning it was a CR7 (at least, according to FlightAware), which is probably why she was bumped. There's a lengthy tweet-stream from the white woman which I parse as implying they weren't on the same PNR -- when checking bags the agent seemed to question the assertion they were flying together for the purpose of the credit card's bag fee waiver (which requires passengers to all be on the same reservation). Of course, if they didn't waive the bag fee for the white woman (the African-American woman is the cardholder) that wouldn't play into the racism! narrative.

Some of the other stuff is just ridiculous blather: The staff wouldn't let the African-American woman stand in the jetbridge or at the front of the plane to see if an extra seat would open up and that's racism! Well, no, that would just be in the way of passengers trying to board the aircraft, especially on a CR7. She complains that she's getting a quick response on Twitter but her friend's letter is apparently being ignored; if you want a fast response these days you tweet simply because there's a staff which watches tweets in near-real-time. And she was already convinced of racism! even before the flight left the ground given the timestamp of her initial tweet.
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:38 pm

Complete BS it was a an equipment change to plane with a smaller F cabin. Im sure airlines have a set protocol way of dealing with this as this isn't the first time this has happen nor will it be the last. I'm sure it looks at people who paid the most, those with the highest status, those on upgrades etc and determines which passenger will be downgraded
 
irelayer
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:34 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:38 pm

I'll say one thing about all of these stories about abuse coming out these days...when they are posted here, very few people actually read the article. They just react to the thread title.

-IR
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 9:39 pm

Pretty soon with all this BS you will start to see a malpractice lawyer fee on each and every ticket
 
Whalejet
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:31 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Fri May 12, 2017 11:03 pm

BREAKING:
Most people don't like being in a small metal tube with limited seats for 3 hours, during which the type of metal tube you take MAY change.
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 3:28 am

Rdh3e wrote:
Lots of ignorance on this thread. These decisions are not at the discretion of the gate agent. There is at all times a priority list for who is first and who is last on the list, even for confirmed passengers. It's likely that her friend checked in before her and because the likely paid the exact same fare that would be the tiebreaker.

I travel with my wife very frequently, she gets upgrades before me because her first name is earlier in the alphabet than mine (we always check in together so that doesn't break the tie). It's not bias, it's just the fact that there has to be a tiebreaker.




Why did the AA staff ignore the lady and not her friend? Plus, the fact that the lady was sent to the back of the plane shows very bad symbolism.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 3:37 am

Pretty surprising thread -- thirty six posts and not one mention of the airplane photo in news article vs. the actual airplane for the flight in question. A year ago the photo would have caused complete outrage and ridicule. A.net is really slipping in this regard.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14899
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 3:54 am

The article clearly states that when they scanned the boarding pass it flagged hers and she got a Y seat. That means nobody at the gate was involved in this decision. It was a computer algorithm.

Now, if they both wanted to swap, why not? Well because there may have been another person BETWEEN them who also got reduced. They are assuming they were both next to each other on the list. But that just might not be the case.

And if they finally decided they didn't want to sit apart and the upgraded woman didn't want the F seat, why did she take it and then move during the flight? That just denies another person the chance. Maybe that person in between them on the list in the first place...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 5:34 am

Shields wrote:
This article adds some additional information that undermines allegations of racism.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com ... ines-true/


From the Roots article, describing what the customer said:

"On May 2, Rane Baldwin checked into American Airlines Flight 5389, leaving Kentucky for Charlotte, N.C. Baldwin, a black woman, and her friend Janet Novack, a white woman, were traveling together, and both had first-class seats because Baldwin bought and upgraded the tickets."

From the second article listed above:

"Still, something didn’t smell right. I asked American Airlines what happened and here’s what they have to say about the situation.

The passengers bought coach tickets. They did not upgrade with miles.
They received operational upgrades
. However their original flight cancelled.
They were rebooked the next day onto a flight with only one first class seat available, so one was booked into first class and the other rebooked into coach."

The fact that they have different stories could just be the Roots writer not properly understanding the facts. However, IF the customer is saying that she bought AND upgraded the tickets, and American Airlines is saying she DIDN'T upgrade them, then we have a problem.

Much of the rest of it seems like it's possibly less about abject racism and more about her interpretation and how it made her feel. I suppose on some levels that's the same thing. Again, it's very possible this all could have been avoided if someone had explained to her that she couldn't get F on the next flight, if someone had given her more attention on board, or if someone had just tried to problem solve (such as offering two seats together in the main cabin) rather than forcing them to do it themselves. That's assuming that the story is essentially accurate.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 1908
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 8:26 am

Although this does appear to be racist it may just be a coincidence. But I can see why she would be upset.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8506
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 11:01 am

Let us see now, two tickets bought together, booked seats together, upgraded together and at the gate their seating is split up, and the person who's status supplied the upgrade is downgraded. I would say this is already not top marks for an exceptional service.. The defenders of screw over the passengers point to the computer, a good demonstration for the old saying, rubbish in rubbish out if the computer was really the culprit.
Added to this hitting on a pair of mixed race travellers, the black woman gets downgraded and the defenders of screw the passengers (DOSTP) try to say that nobody should imagine that this decision could be racist?
 
lat41
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 2:10 pm

These sensational posts are getting farther and farther afield from "civil aviation". Lets stick to the nuts and bolts we all love. Enough of this stuff. "The TSA agent groped me and roughed me up and then the flight attendant slapped my kid across the face and then both pilots were drunk".....on and on.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1759
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 2:24 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
Lots of ignorance on this thread. These decisions are not at the discretion of the gate agent. There is at all times a priority list for who is first and who is last on the list, even for confirmed passengers. It's likely that her friend checked in before her and because the likely paid the exact same fare that would be the tiebreaker.

I travel with my wife very frequently, she gets upgrades before me because her first name is earlier in the alphabet than mine (we always check in together so that doesn't break the tie). It's not bias, it's just the fact that there has to be a tiebreaker.


And your ignorant comment adds to the list that you so despise. How is your situation that you posted here in anyway similar to what the pax experienced?
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1759
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 2:27 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Let us see now, two tickets bought together, booked seats together, upgraded together and at the gate their seating is split up, and the person who's status supplied the upgrade is downgraded. I would say this is already not top marks for an exceptional service.. The defenders of screw over the passengers point to the computer, a good demonstration for the old saying, rubbish in rubbish out if the computer was really the culprit.
Added to this hitting on a pair of mixed race travellers, the black woman gets downgraded and the defenders of screw the passengers (DOSTP) try to say that nobody should imagine that this decision could be racist?

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

The constant drivel that I read here when an airline screws up is appalling and amazing. I wish those posters would state the airlines they work for so that I can do all possible to avoid those companies on the few occasions that I absolutely have to fly...
 
jb1087xna
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 2:54 pm

jeffrey1970 wrote:



Why did the AA staff ignore the lady and not her friend? Plus, the fact that the lady was sent to the back of the plane shows very bad symbolism.


I don't get the automatic "sent to the back of the plane" symbolism. I get what "back of the plane" implies, but if she was seated directly behind F or somewhere in the "middle" of the plane, would this even be a story? Or could it be that she considered anything other than F "back of the plane?" I've read countless comments on aviation enthusiast boards that imply that Y is simply unbearable for countless reasons.
I'm not making any final determination on the situation, only merely saying there is an infinite amount of ways to view a situation. And from the lack of facts in the original article, I think it'd be safer to withhold absolute judgement in either direction.
Next up: XNA-ATL-IAH-MSP-XNA
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1096
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 2:54 pm

I guess you have to conclude that if you book a seat on a US carrier in any shape or form, there seems to be only a 90-95% chance of you actually flying from O to D in said seat, versus 100% in the rest of the world.
Vahroone
 
DaveFly
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 3:06 pm

jeffrey1970 wrote:
the lady was sent to the back of the plane shows very bad symbolism.


I consider myself moderately liberal, but your assertion really strains credulity.

If an apparently Jewish person has to switch seats on a Lufthansa flight, they shouldn't seat him near the ovens because it "shows very bad symbolism?"

This kind of faux outrage cheapens real cases of racism; there are plenty of real racist incidents, but being inadvertently bumped from first class isn't one of them.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
LH491
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:52 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 3:14 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
guyanam wrote:
BatonOps wrote:
Just another passenger trying to get her name in the news.

Anyone else sick of these stories? I know I am.



OK so in 2017 its fine to push a person to the back of the plane because they are black when they have paid for business class. Ironically is the person who paid for the upgrade gets bounced back.

I suggest next time they do that to a white male and we will hear all the screams about how white men are the only people discriminated against.


How did the system know she was black? Or which of them was black? If both tickets were on the same itinerary, perhaps it selects the first name of record on the reservation that is requiring a downgrade? Maybe it chooses to downgrade the person who paid as they don't want to insult their "guest" by sending them to the back (like in my house, if I don't have enough chairs for a group to sit on at the dinner table, I'd be the one to use a tray or just stand rather than make my "guest" do so).

So many questions as always. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly for her and to her satisfaction.


How do you know she's black? Most news sources in the US rob people of color of their claims to ancestry from certain countries for the sake of Hitler tuna casserole ethnic delusion.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8506
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: AA Accused Of Racist Seat Change

Sat May 13, 2017 3:46 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Shields wrote:
This article adds some additional information that undermines allegations of racism.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com ... ines-true/


From the Roots article, describing what the customer said:

"On May 2, Rane Baldwin checked into American Airlines Flight 5389, leaving Kentucky for Charlotte, N.C. Baldwin, a black woman, and her friend Janet Novack, a white woman, were traveling together, and both had first-class seats because Baldwin bought and upgraded the tickets."

From the second article listed above:

"Still, something didn’t smell right. I asked American Airlines what happened and here’s what they have to say about the situation.

The passengers bought coach tickets. They did not upgrade with miles.
They received operational upgrades
. However their original flight cancelled.
They were rebooked the next day onto a flight with only one first class seat available, so one was booked into first class and the other rebooked into coach."

The fact that they have different stories could just be the Roots writer not properly understanding the facts. However, IF the customer is saying that she bought AND upgraded the tickets, and American Airlines is saying she DIDN'T upgrade them, then we have a problem.

Much of the rest of it seems like it's possibly less about abject racism and more about her interpretation and how it made her feel. I suppose on some levels that's the same thing. Again, it's very possible this all could have been avoided if someone had explained to her that she couldn't get F on the next flight, if someone had given her more attention on board, or if someone had just tried to problem solve (such as offering two seats together in the main cabin) rather than forcing them to do it themselves. That's assuming that the story is essentially accurate.


So again a story about bad service from an USA airline. You tell somebody at the gate that you downgraded her in regards of seat and class, with anew seat assignment than her boarding pass shows and you separate travelers having booked and confirmed adjoining seats.
Take the racism aside and that is really classy service needful to be defended by the DOSTP crowd. :sarcastic:

You look at the pair of travelers a white and a black woman and the black woman gets downgraded. How a computer can choose black people for downgrading? If you need not to be 100%, names can be a good factor.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos