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Spiderguy252
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Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 7:30 am

The history of the homegrown industry in this country is full of companies that have folded and airlines that haven't stuck.

Even the flag carrier had its fair share of churn before eventually shutting down in 2012. Arik Air too seems to be on its last legs.

Surely there is the population and the market to have at least one major carrier, so how come none have sprung up as a viable long term option?
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PanHAM
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 7:44 am

How can you uograde 300 passengers when there are ony 30 first class seats available? There has been one profitable and commercially viable Airline in Africa and that is Ethiopean. The rest of them are state funded and many suffer from corruption. Also, it is much easier to collect non-objection fees without taking the risk to operate an Airline.
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 8:17 am

PanHAM wrote:
How can you uograde 300 passengers when there are ony 30 first class seats available? There has been one profitable and commercially viable Airline in Africa and that is Ethiopean. The rest of them are state funded and many suffer from corruption. Also, it is much easier to collect non-objection fees without taking the risk to operate an Airline.


These arguments don't apply to countries of a similar profile, size and population such as - Bangladesh or Kenya.

At the very least, they have national carriers functioning day and night even if their private counterparts don't know how long they will be around for.

What makes Nigeria - in specific - so different?
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 9:16 am

You have entirely missed the existence of the original Nigeria Airways flag carrier, one of the largest airlines on the continent, and certainly most important in West Africa. We should not confuse restarts using the same name such as the Virgin venture as being anything of similar stature.

Formed after WWII in association with BOAC as West African Airways representing four nations with Nigeria largest shareholder, it became a Nigerian affair with part BOAC ownership still in 1950s.
Carrier was a vanguard in many ways, operated modern equipment for the time including jets(eventually early widebodies in 1970s) and network that spanned continents with high quality service such as meals on china. With peak in late 70s and 80s it eventually fell into mismanagement and financial blackhole. But original Nigeria Airways was very much a preeminent airline on the continent for its time.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 9:44 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
What makes Nigeria - in specific - so different?


Ever had the displeasure of visiting Nigeria? I have, Lagos to be precise. It's an absolute armpit of a nation and city.

A couple of things you need to know about Nigeria: a) The fastest growing 'industry' is the Lutheran Evangelical Church. b) There is a very small number of families who, together with the oil companies, decides on everything. To say corruption is running rampant would be a huge understatement. The people of Nigeria, generally speaking, have no hope of a better future unless they jump on the corruption or crime bandwagon (there's a reason it's called '419 scam').

So what makes Nigeria different? Well, there are only 4 or so 'functioning' African carriers, but none of them are sitting on top of huge sea of hydro carbons. Nigeria does, but that massive wealth have all disappeared into the hands of a few, and the corrupt oil companies running the concessions. Even Arik Air is nothing but an ill-conceived front for money laundering.

Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 9:55 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
How can you uograde 300 passengers when there are ony 30 first class seats available? There has been one profitable and commercially viable Airline in Africa and that is Ethiopean. The rest of them are state funded and many suffer from corruption. Also, it is much easier to collect non-objection fees without taking the risk to operate an Airline.



What makes Nigeria - in specific - so different?



The WAWA factor, stands for "West Africa Wins Again.

Every attempt to set up a national carrier in Nigeria will fail and we all know what the reson is starts with a capital C.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:28 am

B777LRF wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
What makes Nigeria - in specific - so different?


Ever had the displeasure of visiting Nigeria? I have, Lagos to be precise. It's an absolute armpit of a nation and city.

A couple of things you need to know about Nigeria: a) The fastest growing 'industry' is the Lutheran Evangelical Church. b) There is a very small number of families who, together with the oil companies, decides on everything. To say corruption is running rampant would be a huge understatement. The people of Nigeria, generally speaking, have no hope of a better future unless they jump on the corruption or crime bandwagon (there's a reason it's called '419 scam').

So what makes Nigeria different? Well, there are only 4 or so 'functioning' African carriers, but none of them are sitting on top of huge sea of hydro carbons. Nigeria does, but that massive wealth have all disappeared into the hands of a few, and the corrupt oil companies running the concessions. Even Arik Air is nothing but an ill-conceived front for money laundering.

Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station.


After reading the thread title, I expected to see a simply worded, "Because it's Nigeria," response, but this was almost as succinct.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:38 am

Do they have an airport?
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:43 am

PEK777 wrote:
Do they have an airport?


Amazingly yes, even more than one...... 8-)
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:46 am

A friend who works at LHR used to tell me how much fun it was observing the check in for flights to Lagos or Port Harcourt, an amazing set of items including furniture and kitchen goods with wads of cash handed over as 'excess baggage'. The C word is rampant with anything to do with Nigeria and travel to and from ... and while crew of UK airlines that fly there hate doing so, and have to be accommodated in secure hotels with bodyguards for travel within the country, the airlines love the yields they can get!
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 10:47 am

B777LRF wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
What makes Nigeria - in specific - so different?


Ever had the displeasure of visiting Nigeria? I have, Lagos to be precise. It's an absolute armpit of a nation and city.

A couple of things you need to know about Nigeria: a) The fastest growing 'industry' is the Lutheran Evangelical Church. b) There is a very small number of families who, together with the oil companies, decides on everything. To say corruption is running rampant would be a huge understatement. The people of Nigeria, generally speaking, have no hope of a better future unless they jump on the corruption or crime bandwagon (there's a reason it's called '419 scam').

So what makes Nigeria different? Well, there are only 4 or so 'functioning' African carriers, but none of them are sitting on top of huge sea of hydro carbons. Nigeria does, but that massive wealth have all disappeared into the hands of a few, and the corrupt oil companies running the concessions. Even Arik Air is nothing but an ill-conceived front for money laundering.

Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station.


"Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station"
As a Nigerian I am deeply offended by your comments, sure Nigeria is not the most wealthy country in the world, but that is no reason to attack the integrity of every single one of the Nigerian people. Next, time I hope you use better wording, and especially not stereotype an entire country with over 200 million people. I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 11:21 am

Midwestindy wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
What makes Nigeria - in specific - so different?


Ever had the displeasure of visiting Nigeria? I have, Lagos to be precise. It's an absolute armpit of a nation and city.

A couple of things you need to know about Nigeria: a) The fastest growing 'industry' is the Lutheran Evangelical Church. b) There is a very small number of families who, together with the oil companies, decides on everything. To say corruption is running rampant would be a huge understatement. The people of Nigeria, generally speaking, have no hope of a better future unless they jump on the corruption or crime bandwagon (there's a reason it's called '419 scam').

So what makes Nigeria different? Well, there are only 4 or so 'functioning' African carriers, but none of them are sitting on top of huge sea of hydro carbons. Nigeria does, but that massive wealth have all disappeared into the hands of a few, and the corrupt oil companies running the concessions. Even Arik Air is nothing but an ill-conceived front for money laundering.

Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station.


"Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station"
As a Nigerian I am deeply offended by your comments, sure Nigeria is not the most wealthy country in the world, but that is no reason to attack the integrity of every single one of the Nigerian people. Next, time I hope you use better wording, and especially not stereotype an entire country with over 200 million people. I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.


You've missed his point entirely, Nigeria should be a relatively wealthy country, that it isn't is due to the things he mentions. Nothing there will change until people like you stop denying the problems and instead start to deal with them, Nigeria should have at least one thriving successful airline, that it doesn't says everything about the state of the country.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 11:30 am

slinky09 wrote:
A friend who works at LHR used to tell me how much fun it was observing the check in for flights to Lagos or Port Harcourt, an amazing set of items including furniture and kitchen goods with wads of cash handed over as 'excess baggage'. The C word is rampant with anything to do with Nigeria and travel to and from ... and while crew of UK airlines that fly there hate doing so, and have to be accommodated in secure hotels with bodyguards for travel within the country, the airlines love the yields they can get!


For a time, AS had a major fraud issue. Thieves would use stolen credit cards to buy miles from the site Points.com, then transfer them into newly-opened AS Mileage Plan accounts. Then, within moments, they'd redeem those same AS miles to get an award ticket on BA, usually for the next day.

Generally, the bank didn't notify Points.com of the fraud until it was too late, and by that time, being several steps removed, the traveler had already flown BA.

Can you guess what the destination was on that BA ticket? Every. Single. Time?

LOS. Lagos, Nigeria.

I kid you not.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 11:51 am

mercure1 wrote:
You have entirely missed the existence of the original Nigeria Airways flag carrier, one of the largest airlines on the continent, and certainly most important in West Africa. We should not confuse restarts using the same name such as the Virgin venture as being anything of similar stature.

Formed after WWII in association with BOAC as West African Airways representing four nations with Nigeria largest shareholder, it became a Nigerian affair with part BOAC ownership still in 1950s.
Carrier was a vanguard in many ways, operated modern equipment for the time including jets(eventually early widebodies in 1970s) and network that spanned continents with high quality service such as meals on china. With peak in late 70s and 80s it eventually fell into mismanagement and financial blackhole. But original Nigeria Airways was very much a preeminent airline on the continent for its time.



Nigeria Airways was one of the world's flagship airlines back in the day but sadly through corruption in that country it was foeced into bankruptcy. They operated the VC-10, F28, F27, 707, 737, 747, 727 Airbus A310 and the DC10. A very major player on the continent.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 12:23 pm

What happened to Air Afrique and where they based?
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 12:28 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Surely there is the population and the market to have at least one major carrier, so how come none have sprung up as a viable long term option?

In one simple term: The country is overrun with corruption.
PanHAM wrote:
How can you uograde 300 passengers when there are ony 30 first class seats available? There has been one profitable and commercially viable Airline in Africa and that is Ethiopean. The rest of them are state funded and many suffer from corruption. Also, it is much easier to collect non-objection fees without taking the risk to operate an Airline.

Your history is very short. That might be true today but there have been many viable and perhaps even profitable airlines in Africa. Yes most were state run so it's hard to measure profitability. Even SAA was for the greater part of its history a profitable and viable airline. So were the likes of Egyptair, Air Namibia, Air Afrique, just to name a few. But the story is no different in the rest of the World. Once upon a time airlines like Sabena, Swissair, PanAm, etc, were viable and profitable too.
B777LRF wrote:
Ever had the displeasure of visiting Nigeria? I have, Lagos to be precise. It's an absolute armpit of a nation and city.

I get what you say but it's not fair to equate the whole country to that city. I personally find NYC the armpit of America but there are many lovely parts and people in America :)
Midwestindy wrote:
"Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station"
As a Nigerian I am deeply offended by your comments, sure Nigeria is not the most wealthy country in the world, but that is no reason to attack the integrity of every single one of the Nigerian people. Next, time I hope you use better wording, and especially not stereotype an entire country with over 200 million people. I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.

But that's exactly the point is it not? A country of 200 million people with as much natural wealth as it does and a GDP in the top 25 in the World should be one of the wealthiest in the World. Instead it ranks at the bottom with the likes of Laos, Nicaragua, and Moldova. Why? Because its ruling class gets all the wealth and the people get nothing.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 12:45 pm

AJCNL wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
B777LRF wrote:

Ever had the displeasure of visiting Nigeria? I have, Lagos to be precise. It's an absolute armpit of a nation and city.

A couple of things you need to know about Nigeria: a) The fastest growing 'industry' is the Lutheran Evangelical Church. b) There is a very small number of families who, together with the oil companies, decides on everything. To say corruption is running rampant would be a huge understatement. The people of Nigeria, generally speaking, have no hope of a better future unless they jump on the corruption or crime bandwagon (there's a reason it's called '419 scam').

So what makes Nigeria different? Well, there are only 4 or so 'functioning' African carriers, but none of them are sitting on top of huge sea of hydro carbons. Nigeria does, but that massive wealth have all disappeared into the hands of a few, and the corrupt oil companies running the concessions. Even Arik Air is nothing but an ill-conceived front for money laundering.

Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station.


"Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station"
As a Nigerian I am deeply offended by your comments, sure Nigeria is not the most wealthy country in the world, but that is no reason to attack the integrity of every single one of the Nigerian people. Next, time I hope you use better wording, and especially not stereotype an entire country with over 200 million people. I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.


You've missed his point entirely, Nigeria should be a relatively wealthy country, that it isn't is due to the things he mentions. Nothing there will change until people like you stop denying the problems and instead start to deal with them, Nigeria should have at least one thriving successful airline, that it doesn't says everything about the state of the country.


No, Hahahaha, I will be the first person to say Nigeria has serious problems, I was addressing the fact that he basically described the whole country of Nigeria as a bunch of crooks. I 100% agree there is serious corruption that has stunted the wealth and prosperity of the nation, that however doesn't mean that everyone living in nigeria should be sterotyped in the way he just mentioned, " I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station," which is borderline racist. I agree with you, I think it is pretty sad that Nigeria has so much oil and instead of being on the same plane as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE, they are on the level of Cambodia or Nicaragua. To your point even with the amount of corruption in Nigeria there should still be at least a somewhat functioning airline, I mean 200 million people live in the country!
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BigGSFO
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 1:07 pm

BravoOne wrote:
What happened to Air Afrique and where they based?

They were based in Abidjan and dissolved in 2002. It was owned by a bunch of Wet African nations, but I don't think Nigeria was one of them.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 1:17 pm

BigGSFO wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
What happened to Air Afrique and where they based?

They were based in Abidjan and dissolved in 2002. It was owned by a bunch of Wet African nations, but I don't think Nigeria was one of them.

Correct, Nigeria had no role in Air Afrique. There would have been no point, the Nigerian government owned the aforementioned Nigeria Airways so they would have been competing with themselves.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed May 17, 2017 1:35 pm

Air Afrique was largely composed of Francophone nations in West Africa and was formed in early 1960s with the assistance of Air France.
Nigeria was not part of it as it was neither a Francophone nation nor for fact it already had its Nigeria Airways established.
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PanHAM
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 6:59 am

Quote Airbazar
Your history is very short. That might be true today but there have been many viable and perhaps even profitable airlines in Africa. Yes most were state run so it's hard to measure profitability. Even SAA was for the greater part
end of Quote

One cannot always start with Adam and Eve. Maybe I should have added that "over the decades" ET is the only profitable and viable Airline in Africa.. How can you measure the profitability of a state run airine? I once had a freight charter to an African Country and has to settle the non-objection fee for the granting of traffic rights. They just collected a royalty for duing nothing. No risk and all the fun. They couldn't have done that with their own Equipment cause they didn't have a CL44 in their inventory.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 8:48 am

Midwestindy]"Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station"
As a Nigerian I am deeply offended by your comments, sure Nigeria is not the most wealthy country in the world, but that is no reason to attack the integrity of every single one of the Nigerian people. Next, time I hope you use better wording, and especially not stereotype an entire country with over 200 million people. I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.[/quote]

As a Nigerian, you too have made the wise choice of leaving the country. Having been there on way too many occasions, I've yet to meet a single Nigerian national that's even remotely worthy of trust. But whom I trust to run my lemonade stand is entirely my choice, wouldn't you agree?

[quote="Midwestindy wrote:
No, Hahahaha, I will be the first person to say Nigeria has serious problems, I was addressing the fact that he basically described the whole country of Nigeria as a bunch of crooks. I 100% agree there is serious corruption that has stunted the wealth and prosperity of the nation, that however doesn't mean that everyone living in nigeria should be sterotyped in the way he just mentioned, " I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station," which is borderline racist. I agree with you, I think it is pretty sad that Nigeria has so much oil and instead of being on the same plane as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE, they are on the level of Cambodia or Nicaragua. To your point even with the amount of corruption in Nigeria there should still be at least a somewhat functioning airline, I mean 200 million people live in the country!


Pleased to see you recognise the problems Nigeria is facing, problems entirely of it's own making mind. As for the racist comment, I didn't say 'Africans', now did I? It's in the word 'race', as in 'racist against Africans, Asians, Europeans etc'. I know plenty of people from Africa whom I would trust with my life, but none of them are from Nigeria.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 9:45 am

BravoOne wrote:
What happened to Air Afrique and where they based?


A quick Google search or at least Wikipedia will give you all the detailed information you need to know regarding Air Afrique.

I have fond memories of Air Afrique and they had quite a large network with a very attractive livery consisting of two shades of green that suited their aircraft.

With regards to Nigeria not having an official flag carrier it's a shame that their last one folded after such a short time that being Air Nigeria which I personally was expecting to be around a lot longer than it did and I particularly liked their livery as well.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 3:16 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Pleased to see you recognise the problems Nigeria is facing, problems entirely of it's own making mind. As for the racist comment, I didn't say 'Africans', now did I? It's in the word 'race', as in 'racist against Africans, Asians, Europeans etc'. I know plenty of people from Africa whom I would trust with my life, but none of them are from Nigeria.



So how would you react if some one said that Americans would sell their first born if sufficient money was involved? This being a reference to the extreme materialism that is often used to describe the US mentality.

Whenever someone writes off an entire group it begins to look weird. Yes there is ample corruption in Nigeria and certainly white collar crimes associated with Nigerians. But please remember 2008/9 when the entire world blamed American greed for the financial meltdown which adversely impacted global economies. Should every American be blamed, or just the greedy bankers involved?
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 3:36 pm

Maybe, just maybe, because it is an African airline, aka the region's economics suck entirely, and half the population will probably never fly, so there's a lot less demand in an already struggling region.
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 4:00 pm

When I worked at Heathrow late 70's 80's for some reason the Nigeria airways flight on a Friday was always a problem. It was always overbooked with scuffling and fights breaking out. Check-in staff were "known" to be taking the back hander to let the baggage excess on as it was cheaper than paying the airline proper. Police where always on hand to restore some sense of order, many were good friends and the stories they recalled were amazing. But then it was the 70's and 80's then. :old:
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mapletux
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 4:20 pm

It could be because of any of a number of reasons:

1. Nigeria Airways was not run as a profit making venture. (Too many highly placed people felt entitled to 1st class tickets which were never paid for.
2. The governments in the past did not create an airline friendly environment which has made it difficult for private airlines to grow.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 6:19 pm

OA940 wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, because it is an African airline, aka the region's economics suck entirely, and half the population will probably never fly, so there's a lot less demand in an already struggling region.

Perhaps the dumbest thing I've read all day... Parts of Africa are in fact doing quite well. As for your hilarious market sizing statement even if half the population will never fly that still leaves a target population of nearly 100 million people. There is strong demand and many foreign carriers make lots of money flying to and from Nigeria.

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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 7:06 pm

Anyway, the wealthiest looking group of people I ever saw were Nigerians waiting for their AF flight CDG-LOS! The second wealthiest group was probably expatriate Mexiacans who come to the USA for tourism.

Nigeria is not a place where you can run a business. So, of course, it is impossible to run a major airline there.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 7:17 pm

Flighty wrote:
Nigeria is not a place where you can run a business. So, of course, it is impossible to run a major airline there.


Well you can if the government is willing to endlessly subsidize an airline. There are plenty of equally if not more corrupt countries with flag carriers. But fortunately the government hasn't chosen to go down that road.
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu May 18, 2017 7:22 pm

PanHAM wrote:
There has been one profitable and commercially viable Airline in Africa and that is Ethiopean. The rest of them are state funded and many suffer from corruption.


Comair in South Africa was founded in 1946. It is not state funded. It is a publicly owned company traded on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange. It operates as both kulula.com and as a British Airways franchisee. On its web site it claims to be the only airline in the world to have made a profit in each of the last 68 years - that is since its foundation. However I believe the record shows that it made a loss in one of those years, 2004.

Comair operates two brands. One is kulula.com, Africa's first LCC. Comair itself is a British Airways franchisee.

kulula.com operates a fleet of 10 737s (one 734 and nine 738s).

Comair (trading as British Airways) is a oneworld affiliate. It operates seventeen 737s (ten 734s and seven 738s).

Comair has eight 737 Max 8s on order. However it is not yet clear how these aircraft will be distributed between the kulula and BA brands. However they will likely replace the 734s in the two fleets.
 
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sq421
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:02 am

I recently saw Richard Quest on CNN visiting Lagos, I recollect one of the people he spoke to lamenting that Nigeria has more private aircraft than scheduled carriers. That itself speaks volumes.
Add to that the condition of Abuja Airport and the fact that it had to be shut down for six weeks to facilitate runway repairs justifies B777LRF's rants. I'm in Lagos right now and getting through the immigration and customs was a genuine pain, the level of corruption is immense and every officer tried to rip me off.

Source: Abuja Airport: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nnamdi_Az ... al_Airport
Source: Richard Quest: www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1704/27/qmb.01.html
 
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:14 am

Midwestindy wrote:
I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.

Curious: were you in a coma the whole time?

Sure it's not a good idea to disparage an entire country's populace... but to say that you "have no idea" about what he's alluding to, can only be labeled as willful ignorance, in terms of Nigerian corruption, for someone who's had personal dealings in that place.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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sq421
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:27 am

slinky09 wrote:
A friend who works at LHR used to tell me how much fun it was observing the check in for flights to Lagos or Port Harcourt, an amazing set of items including furniture and kitchen goods with wads of cash handed over as 'excess baggage'. The C word is rampant with anything to do with Nigeria and travel to and from ... and while crew of UK airlines that fly there hate doing so, and have to be accommodated in secure hotels with bodyguards for travel within the country, the airlines love the yields they can get!


Not just for the crew, other MNC's including mine have to arrange for armed escorts for the staff who have to visit Nigeria for business. I have a pick-up truck with 2 guys with rifles escorting us from the hotel to office and back daily and had an additional 2 on the way from Lagos airport to the hotel.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:56 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I have lived in Nigeria before and I can say for a fact you have no idea what you are talking about.

Curious: were you in a coma the whole time?

Sure it's not a good idea to disparage an entire country's populace... but to say that you "have no idea" about what he's alluding to, can only be labeled as willful ignorance, in terms of Nigerian corruption, for someone who's had personal dealings in that place.


When I said you have no idea, I was only refering to this quote "Put it this way: I wouldn't trust a Nigerian to run a lemonade stand in a police station," later I said, "I will be the first person to say Nigeria has serious problems" and "I 100% agree there is serious corruption that has stunted the wealth and prosperity of the nation, that however doesn't mean that everyone living in nigeria should be sterotyped in the way he just mentioned"
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BawliBooch
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:44 pm

One reason: corruption. Massive corruption that has become accepted as a way of life.

When you think of Nigeria Airways, think pre-merger Air India multiplied by 1000.
The decline started after the 1976 military coup, as the ruling military junta turned the airline turned into a vehicle to give jobs to hangers-on and allies. A new avenue for corruption was the largescale sale of jobs in the airline for a fee. Every cog in the wheel had to be lubricated. Once they got a job, everyone expected a cut for service below them. By the end of the 80's, Nigeria Airways had the highest employee to aircraft ratio of any carrier in the world - >800 or so. They were also one of the first to be suspended from IATA clearing house for non payment of dues.

In a virtual replica of the kind of tantabaazi that went on in pre-merger Air India (now being replicated faithfully by our friends across the border in PIA), many employees floated companies in the names of their wives/cousins/uncles which were used to channel contracts for everything from cutlery to uniforms. Aircraft Leasing for Haj was a particularly profitable side-business for many employees. They had to recover their investment! Sometimes the desire for getting return on their "investment" caused many employees to turn rogue. Multiple employees were caught in the 80's running drug cartels.

This all-round corruption extends all the way to Govt - right upto the highest levels. Their Civil Aviation Authority is a joke. The Minister of Aviation, like his counterparts in India/Pak is in the pockets of the ME3. The sale of Nigeria Airways assets was another gross tale of corruption involving politicians & their cronies. Last I heard, the Govt was going to use taxpayers money to buy out the troubled Arik Air which is facing a multitude of issues caused by the country's forex crisis.

But there is an unwillingness to make systemic changes required to make it possible for local carriers.
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
DLvsWN
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:37 pm

Corruption Perception Index ratings (1 = most corrupt, 100 = least corrupt):

Angola: 18, has functioning national airline
Congo: 21, dysfunctional national airline
Kenya: 26, has functioning national airline
Cameroon: 26, dysfunctional national airline
Mozambique: 27, has functioning national airline
Nigeria: 28

People seem hellbent to blame this on corruption, but I think strength of the national government, institutions, and military correlates much better with a country's ability to maintain an airline. Weak regulatory state, poor facilities, bad policing, weak contract enforcement, poor property rights, little access to financing, etc. It all leads to astronomical costs of doing business in the face of uncertain demand.

But that explanation has less emotional appeal than unruly Nigerians and their 419 schemes breeding a society rotten to its core.
 
ScrantonUSC
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:56 pm

DLvsWN wrote:
Corruption Perception Index ratings (1 = most corrupt, 100 = least corrupt):

Angola: 18, has functioning national airline
Congo: 21, dysfunctional national airline
Kenya: 26, has functioning national airline
Cameroon: 26, dysfunctional national airline
Mozambique: 27, has functioning national airline
Nigeria: 28

People seem hellbent to blame this on corruption, but I think strength of the national government, institutions, and military correlates much better with a country's ability to maintain an airline. Weak regulatory state, poor facilities, bad policing, weak contract enforcement, poor property rights, little access to financing, etc. It all leads to astronomical costs of doing business in the face of uncertain demand.

But that explanation has less emotional appeal than unruly Nigerians and their 419 schemes breeding a society rotten to its core.


Please expand on your definition of "functioning" for these.
 
DLvsWN
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:11 pm

ScrantonUSC wrote:
DLvsWN wrote:
Corruption Perception Index ratings (1 = most corrupt, 100 = least corrupt):

Angola: 18, has functioning national airline
Congo: 21, dysfunctional national airline
Kenya: 26, has functioning national airline
Cameroon: 26, dysfunctional national airline
Mozambique: 27, has functioning national airline
Nigeria: 28

People seem hellbent to blame this on corruption, but I think strength of the national government, institutions, and military correlates much better with a country's ability to maintain an airline. Weak regulatory state, poor facilities, bad policing, weak contract enforcement, poor property rights, little access to financing, etc. It all leads to astronomical costs of doing business in the face of uncertain demand.

But that explanation has less emotional appeal than unruly Nigerians and their 419 schemes breeding a society rotten to its core.


Please expand on your definition of "functioning" for these.


Whatever standard of "functioning" people are complaining about Nigeria lacking will suffice for this conversation, or else the premise of this thread is null.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:25 pm

How is Arik Air doing, I have a LOS-ENU flight next month, and I would prefer not to fly LOS-ADD-ENU?
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sq421
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:14 pm

JetWest, a new airline from Nigeria hopes to take to skies this December.

JetWest will offer a pared down service "more Easyjet than Etihad" at rock-bottom prices.


Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/14/afric ... index.html
 
mapletux
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:48 pm

sq421 wrote:
JetWest, a new airline from Nigeria hopes to take to skies this December.

JetWest will offer a pared down service "more Easyjet than Etihad" at rock-bottom prices.


Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/14/afric ... index.html


What aircraft type is the AC-20 jet mentioned in the report?
 
DfwAussie
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:39 pm

BigGSFO wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
What happened to Air Afrique and where they based?

They were based in Abidjan and dissolved in 2002. It was owned by a bunch of Wet African nations, but I don't think Nigeria was one of them.


IIRC, many of those nations were former French colonies which is why Air Afrique flew to several cities in France besides Paris.
 
PEK777
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:13 am

Start with the basics. Bronze tools, running water, domesticate animals, build basic structures of sticks, the wheel. Then move on to Airlines
 
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sq421
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:43 am

mapletux wrote:
sq421 wrote:
JetWest, a new airline from Nigeria hopes to take to skies this December.

JetWest will offer a pared down service "more Easyjet than Etihad" at rock-bottom prices.


Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/14/afric ... index.html


What aircraft type is the AC-20 jet mentioned in the report?


I guess they meant A-320 and not AC-20. I was wondering the same thing, till I saw their website. The images on the website are A320s.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Why has Nigeria never had a major airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:55 am

A UK immigration officer told me in the 90's Nigeria AIrways was required to block 30 seats on each LHR-LOS flight for deportees who arrived in the UK on fraudulent passports.

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