United working to replace P.S. with "United Coast"

tphuang · Sun May 21, 2017 10:33 am

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
This is not a reaction to b6, it's a reaction to delta. They are doing this the same time delta enters the market with delta one. If you look at June and July. They are price matching delta on all the business and economy class fares while offering much better schedule. They don't want to loose any customer out of bos or San Francisco to delta and remain the legacy of choice here.

It will be interesting to see how long these legacies can keep selling lie flat at 549 on Saturday and 599 on weekdays while charging 175 in economy.

I'd be interested to see how determined delta will be on this route.

I don't think the price in business class will be a problem I think it will entice people to actually buy a lie flat seat. If you take a look at the upgrade list on these coast to coast flights no matter the airline you will see one consistency which is there are plenty of FF's on the upgrade list hoping for a free upgrade. By pricing the business class product competitively airlines are trying to limit if not eliminate free upgrades. There are plenty of people who would pay $549 for a confirmed seat in business class on a 6 hour flight. I think AA, DL and UA are responding to the market and instead of giving aways lie flat seats for free to FF's who only bought an economy class ticket now they can probably fill business class with customer who actually bought a business class lie flat seat.
Customers who have become accustomed to getting free upgrades on AA, DL and UA will soon find it nearly impossible as airlines continues to price their premium class seat more competitively. Customers might now be willing to pay $1,000 dollars one way but I bet there are plenty of people who would pay $549 for a lie flat seat on BOS-SFO-BOS route.

I don't think selling the lie flats at under $600 is economically viable for the legacies, unless they can get a lot of customers paying more than that close to the flight. Also, airline still gets more money from selling 1 J at $1000 and 1 Y at $200 vs 2 Js at $600 if they can get the Y to use one of their RPUs.

Based on FT threads, there are always people use system wide upgrades on D1 routes and other non-rev passengers.

UA does have the luxury of large corporate base on this route that have been paying for FC on this route, which DL does not.

It's great for customers. DL also introduced their D1 to DCA-LAX and are charging over $1000 to start off, but AA is not offering a competitive product.

chrisnh · Sun May 21, 2017 10:35 am

The A321s AA is using BOS-LAX are described as having 'sharklets.' Is this how they differentiate the ones AA bought themselves from the very tired ones they assumed from USAirways? I've been on both (New from Boston to Dallas and Old from Sacramento to Charlotte and from Charlotte to Boston).

77H · Sun May 21, 2017 10:55 am

N62NA wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The bankers and entertainment industry riders will be attracted to it.

I don't think so, because it's not offered to/from JFK.

MAH4546 wrote:
Within 5 years I suspect lieflats will be the norm for carriers on the key transcons between SF/LA and NYC/BOS/WAS/MIA, but it's entirely thanks to JetBlue.

Probably, but not MIA.

AA is going 32B on the LAX route (and maybe all 32B if they drop the 1x 77W in November), with horribly uncomfortable F cabin seats (seats, not lie flat beds), and AA MIA-SFO gets plain old domestic 738s / 32Bs.

There are plenty of bankers and those in the entertainment biz that use EWR. JFK isn't the end all be all.

77H

jayunited · Sun May 21, 2017 1:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't think selling the lie flats at under $600 is economically viable for the legacies, unless they can get a lot of customers paying more than that close to the flight. Also, airline still gets more money from selling 1 J at $1000 and 1 Y at $200 vs 2 Js at $600 if they can get the Y to use one of their RPUs.

Based on FT threads, there are always people use system wide upgrades on D1 routes and other non-rev passengers.

UA does have the luxury of large corporate base on this route that have been paying for FC on this route, which DL does not.

It's great for customers. DL also introduced their D1 to DCA-LAX and are charging over $1000 to start off, but AA is not offering a competitive product.

My previous post is from experience, one of the major problems the US3 faced and still face is customers not buying first class seats domestically because the airlines were giving away those seats for free. I've been with UA now for over 20 years and there have been plenty of times where the entire first class cabin on a domestic flight has been filled with top tier FF's none of them actually purchased a first class seat instead they were all complimentary upgrades. The only way your statement makes any sense is if the airlines had actually been selling first class tickets then you would be correct.
However the reality is top tier FF's would purchases the cheapest economy ticket because they knew they would be upgraded to first class for free. Now that is changing because airlines are doing something called dynamic pricing which differs based on each market served. You can't compare DCA-LAX to BOS-SFO they are two completely different markets with completely different price points.
It is not uncommon at UA to see Global Service passengers stuck in economy plus because first class is completely full with passengers who actually bought a first class seat. Airlines aren't loosing money they re making money because you can't loose what you never sold and now they are starting to sell more first class seats domestically because they are pricing the product more competitively. So instead of the lie flat seat going to a FF who only paid $200 dollars one way now the seat will be taken by a customer who paid $549 one way. If no one is purchasing the seat at $1,000 dollars one way dynamic pricing ask what is the price point for this particular market on this particular day that people are willing to pay. Selling 16 seats at $549 dollars beats giving away 16 seats to top tier FF's who purchases the cheapest economy ticket. This is what we are seeing on the BOS-SFO-BOS route and on other routes around the system. It has been well documented on a.netters and other aviation blog cites, that free upgrade are harder to come by now days.
I don't know if you work for an airline or have access to inside information but the US3 are reversing a trend, we are see more people purchase first class seats now days and it is angering the FF's who have become accustomed to getting a free complimentary upgrade.

I hope United Coast expands beyond EWR,BOS SFO and LAX to other airports on the east and west coast. I hope UA installs lie flat seats in some of the new 737Max's they have on order and I hope they continue to price the product competitively. The days of free upgrades are coming to an end thanks to dynamic pricing

jetblastdubai · Sun May 21, 2017 4:16 pm

jayunited wrote:
...we are see more people purchase first class seats now days

The days of free upgrades are coming to an end thanks to dynamic pricing

Agree 100%. I'm one of those customers who wouldn't even consider purchasing a F ticket in the past because the price was usually so out of line with the added benefit (larger seat and nicer meal). Two things recently have changed that dynamic for me, and probably for a lot of FFers as well.

1. The gap between F/J pricing and Y is narrower thus making the benefit of paying for the front cabin more cost effective.
2. FF mileage status requirements now require a certain spending level as well as mileage accrual being tied to ticket price. Status is still worth a whole lot to "tip the scales" your way in many situations

Jo8338 · Sun May 21, 2017 4:54 pm

N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Then AA will lose customers to JetBlue and potentially others. The problem on MIALAX will be fixed, and the solution is likely the new 757 fleet, which will be MIA-based.

What others? UA? No. Delta? No.

And FLL is not an option for those of us on a line from the Tuttle south.

The reality is MIA-LAX/SFO is not viewed as a "premium" route by AA, with their plethora of 738/32B equipment on the route and with their de facto monopoly on both routes, they have no reason to upgrade the service.

Delta has one daily 738, which isn't very premium.

N62NA · Sun May 21, 2017 7:34 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Then AA will lose customers to JetBlue and potentially others. The problem on MIALAX will be fixed, and the solution is likely the new 757 fleet, which will be MIA-based.

What others? UA? No. Delta? No.

And FLL is not an option for those of us on a line from the Tuttle south.

The reality is MIA-LAX/SFO is not viewed as a "premium" route by AA, with their plethora of 738/32B equipment on the route and with their de facto monopoly on both routes, they have no reason to upgrade the service.

Delta has one daily 738, which isn't very premium.

Exactly. So the question goes back to "what others?"

ikolkyo · Sun May 21, 2017 7:36 pm

chrisnh wrote:
The A321s AA is using BOS-LAX are described as having 'sharklets.' Is this how they differentiate the ones AA bought themselves from the very tired ones they assumed from USAirways? I've been on both (New from Boston to Dallas and Old from Sacramento to Charlotte and from Charlotte to Boston).

Yes that is how they differentiate them, but some of the non sharklet aircraft are actually very new aircraft. Some are newer then a few of the sharklet equipped aircraft.

tphuang · Sun May 21, 2017 7:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't think selling the lie flats at under $600 is economically viable for the legacies, unless they can get a lot of customers paying more than that close to the flight. Also, airline still gets more money from selling 1 J at $1000 and 1 Y at $200 vs 2 Js at $600 if they can get the Y to use one of their RPUs.

Based on FT threads, there are always people use system wide upgrades on D1 routes and other non-rev passengers.

UA does have the luxury of large corporate base on this route that have been paying for FC on this route, which DL does not.

It's great for customers. DL also introduced their D1 to DCA-LAX and are charging over $1000 to start off, but AA is not offering a competitive product.

My previous post is from experience, one of the major problems the US3 faced and still face is customers not buying first class seats domestically because the airlines were giving away those seats for free. I've been with UA now for over 20 years and there have been plenty of times where the entire first class cabin on a domestic flight has been filled with top tier FF's none of them actually purchased a first class seat instead they were all complimentary upgrades. The only way your statement makes any sense is if the airlines had actually been selling first class tickets then you would be correct.
However the reality is top tier FF's would purchases the cheapest economy ticket because they knew they would be upgraded to first class for free. Now that is changing because airlines are doing something called dynamic pricing which differs based on each market served. You can't compare DCA-LAX to BOS-SFO they are two completely different markets with completely different price points.
It is not uncommon at UA to see Global Service passengers stuck in economy plus because first class is completely full with passengers who actually bought a first class seat. Airlines aren't loosing money they re making money because you can't loose what you never sold and now they are starting to sell more first class seats domestically because they are pricing the product more competitively. So instead of the lie flat seat going to a FF who only paid $200 dollars one way now the seat will be taken by a customer who paid $549 one way. If no one is purchasing the seat at $1,000 dollars one way dynamic pricing ask what is the price point for this particular market on this particular day that people are willing to pay. Selling 16 seats at $549 dollars beats giving away 16 seats to top tier FF's who purchases the cheapest economy ticket. This is what we are seeing on the BOS-SFO-BOS route and on other routes around the system. It has been well documented on a.netters and other aviation blog cites, that free upgrade are harder to come by now days.
I don't know if you work for an airline or have access to inside information but the US3 are reversing a trend, we are see more people purchase first class seats now days and it is angering the FF's who have become accustomed to getting a free complimentary upgrade.

I hope United Coast expands beyond EWR,BOS SFO and LAX to other airports on the east and west coast. I hope UA installs lie flat seats in some of the new 737Max's they have on order and I hope they continue to price the product competitively. The days of free upgrades are coming to an end thanks to dynamic pricing

Thanks for your thoughtful response here. I will just break down on my thought price here.

First is the question of whether or not an airline can afford to price this route at $549/599 for lie flat seat with the assumption that cheapest Y seat are 175 to 200.

Here is Delta's layout for 757S, basically 16 D1 seats with 152 Y or Y+ seats
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta ... 00_75S.php
This is a regular 757, 20 domestic F, 179 Y or Y+ seats.
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta ... 75H_v2.php
a regular 739ER, 20 domestic F, 160 Y or Y+ seats
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta ... -900ER.php

So if they were to use an all Y/Y+ seating, a 757 could squeeze about 179 + 20 F x 1.8 (50% wider seats + 20% more pitch F to Y) = 179 + 36 = 215 seats. So the addition of 16 D1 seats is about 63 Y/Y+ seats in an all economy configuration.

Similarly on United PS 757, basically 28 lie flat, 114 Y/Y+ seats
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Unite ... _C_new.php
So if we assume that an Y/Y+ configuration would yield 215 seats. 28 lie flat seats is replacing about 101 Y/Y+ seats.

So in both cases, going to a premium configuration transcon 757 vs an all economy would be trading about 4 economy seat per 1 lie flat seat.

Notice how for Jetblue, they went from a 190 seats all economy A321 to a 159 seat (16 J + 143 Y/Y+) mint configuration. So due to the efficient layout and already greater leg root on economy class, 47 Y became 16 J, which is about 3 economy seat per 1 lie flat.

In addition, premium routes on United and Delta's J class also offers lounge access, dedicated check in area, premium boarding and baggage handling, real meal service with drink options, nice pillows, more attentive service and amenity kits. And on top of this, there will be people getting free upgrades using RPU/GPU. So the J seats need to be priced at least 4 times as much as Y seat to get the same return per square footage of space. It probably needs to 4.5 to 5 times if you add in the additional premium service cost. Notice how Jetblue can sell mint for a little more than 3 times Y seat (since they have little of the ground experience stuff with no free upgrades). That's probably how they got to $549/599 for the cheapest seats.

They also mentioned when mint came out that they were doing terribly with their all economy configurations and probably had to pull out of JFK-SFO/LAX if they didn't have a premium offering. So if all economy is a money looser on these transcon routes and charging 3 times Y price for lie flats is a money looser, then UA/DL are going to loose money big time if they can't get higher yield on those lie flats.

The next is to look at upgrades. I fly AA mostly. Based on my personal experience in the past year with checking A321T J class availabilities and reading the A321T threads on FT. It seems like other than the most popular hours, at least 1/3 of the J seats are either complimentary upgrades or with SWUs. And looking at similar DL threads and UA threads on upgrade chances, it seems like there are some people getting upgraded on premium routes with their RPU/GPU (UA/DL don't have CPU on these routes I think). On B6, I think if there are still empty mint seats at the gates, they try to sell upgrades for total purchase price of $549 or just go out with empty seats.

My impression is that airlines don't want to sell out all of the J seats at less than 4 times the Y seat price. They try to keep some inventory closer to the flight to sell at premium. We are now 3 weeks out from the first day of DL/UA lie flats, they are still pricing J at $599. The entire month of June, DL has their morning flight priced at $599 and evening flight priced at $649 with Saturday priced at $549. I've even heard someone buying R/T J seat on DL for $900! UA has different price point sprinkled throughout. B6 is selling their seats at over $1000 on most week days.

Overall, I think UA will do fine since it has large corporate client base in SFO and BOS that will purchase plenty of the FC seats at higher cost than $599. B6 was the first mover with a lot of corporate clients in BOS and can still make money at $599 in the worst case scenario, so they will be fine (from the flights I checked, selling quite well). Now, DL, as a new entrant with smaller corporate base on this route and weakest schedule, doesn't even seem to be selling out their J seats at basement prices (from the flights that I've checked). That's why I think this is an offensive play by UA against DL.

As for spreading to other cities, B6 kind of got it right with mint that they have significantly lower cost with a competitive J product, so can operate on routes that don't have a lot of fat corporate contract, but with individual willing to pay $500 to $600. So they've been able to continue to expand on mint flights and earning higher RASM along the way. I'm not sure UA and DL can do the same with routes like BOS to LAX/SAN/SEA or EWR/JFK to SAN/SEA. Just looking at JFK/EWR to LAX/SFO, that's typically the kind of prices legacies need to charge on J to be making money.

Jo8338 · Sun May 21, 2017 8:38 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
The A321s AA is using BOS-LAX are described as having 'sharklets.' Is this how they differentiate the ones AA bought themselves from the very tired ones they assumed from USAirways? I've been on both (New from Boston to Dallas and Old from Sacramento to Charlotte and from Charlotte to Boston).

Yes that is how they differentiate them, but some of the non sharklet aircraft are actually very new aircraft. Some are newer then a few of the sharklet equipped aircraft.

Legacy AA 321's have IFE and Main Cabin Extra their code is 32b. Legacy US don't have IFE and Main Cabin Extra is bulkhead / Exit only their code is 321.

BobPatterson · Sun May 21, 2017 8:51 pm

F27500 wrote:
.. what did "p.s." stand for ?

See posts #22 and #25.

grbauc · Mon May 22, 2017 1:01 am

tphuang wrote:
jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
This is not a reaction to b6, it's a reaction to delta. They are doing this the same time delta enters the market with delta one. If you look at June and July. They are price matching delta on all the business and economy class fares while offering much better schedule. They don't want to loose any customer out of bos or San Francisco to delta and remain the legacy of choice here.

It will be interesting to see how long these legacies can keep selling lie flat at 549 on Saturday and 599 on weekdays while charging 175 in economy.

I'd be interested to see how determined delta will be on this route.

I don't think the price in business class will be a problem I think it will entice people to actually buy a lie flat seat. If you take a look at the upgrade list on these coast to coast flights no matter the airline you will see one consistency which is there are plenty of FF's on the upgrade list hoping for a free upgrade. By pricing the business class product competitively airlines are trying to limit if not eliminate free upgrades. There are plenty of people who would pay $549 for a confirmed seat in business class on a 6 hour flight. I think AA, DL and UA are responding to the market and instead of giving aways lie flat seats for free to FF's who only bought an economy class ticket now they can probably fill business class with customer who actually bought a business class lie flat seat.
Customers who have become accustomed to getting free upgrades on AA, DL and UA will soon find it nearly impossible as airlines continues to price their premium class seat more competitively. Customers might now be willing to pay $1,000 dollars one way but I bet there are plenty of people who would pay $549 for a lie flat seat on BOS-SFO-BOS route.

I don't think selling the lie flats at under $600 is economically viable for the legacies, unless they can get a lot of customers paying more than that close to the flight. Also, airline still gets more money from selling 1 J at $1000 and 1 Y at $200 vs 2 Js at $600 if they can get the Y to use one of their RPUs.

Based on FT threads, there are always people use system wide upgrades on D1 routes and other non-rev passengers.

UA does have the luxury of large corporate base on this route that have been paying for FC on this route, which DL does not.

It's great for customers. DL also introduced their D1 to DCA-LAX and are charging over $1000 to start off, but AA is not offering a competitive product.

I pay $800 to $1200 routinely and In my talking to people on the plane I find more and more people are paying.

grbauc · Mon May 22, 2017 1:08 am

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't think selling the lie flats at under $600 is economically viable for the legacies, unless they can get a lot of customers paying more than that close to the flight. Also, airline still gets more money from selling 1 J at $1000 and 1 Y at $200 vs 2 Js at $600 if they can get the Y to use one of their RPUs.

Based on FT threads, there are always people use system wide upgrades on D1 routes and other non-rev passengers.

UA does have the luxury of large corporate base on this route that have been paying for FC on this route, which DL does not.

It's great for customers. DL also introduced their D1 to DCA-LAX and are charging over $1000 to start off, but AA is not offering a competitive product.

My previous post is from experience, one of the major problems the US3 faced and still face is customers not buying first class seats domestically because the airlines were giving away those seats for free. I've been with UA now for over 20 years and there have been plenty of times where the entire first class cabin on a domestic flight has been filled with top tier FF's none of them actually purchased a first class seat instead they were all complimentary upgrades. The only way your statement makes any sense is if the airlines had actually been selling first class tickets then you would be correct.
However the reality is top tier FF's would purchases the cheapest economy ticket because they knew they would be upgraded to first class for free. Now that is changing because airlines are doing something called dynamic pricing which differs based on each market served. You can't compare DCA-LAX to BOS-SFO they are two completely different markets with completely different price points.
It is not uncommon at UA to see Global Service passengers stuck in economy plus because first class is completely full with passengers who actually bought a first class seat. Airlines aren't loosing money they re making money because you can't loose what you never sold and now they are starting to sell more first class seats domestically because they are pricing the product more competitively. So instead of the lie flat seat going to a FF who only paid $200 dollars one way now the seat will be taken by a customer who paid $549 one way. If no one is purchasing the seat at $1,000 dollars one way dynamic pricing ask what is the price point for this particular market on this particular day that people are willing to pay. Selling 16 seats at $549 dollars beats giving away 16 seats to top tier FF's who purchases the cheapest economy ticket. This is what we are seeing on the BOS-SFO-BOS route and on other routes around the system. It has been well documented on a.netters and other aviation blog cites, that free upgrade are harder to come by now days.
I don't know if you work for an airline or have access to inside information but the US3 are reversing a trend, we are see more people purchase first class seats now days and it is angering the FF's who have become accustomed to getting a free complimentary upgrade.

I hope United Coast expands beyond EWR,BOS SFO and LAX to other airports on the east and west coast. I hope UA installs lie flat seats in some of the new 737Max's they have on order and I hope they continue to price the product competitively. The days of free upgrades are coming to an end thanks to dynamic pricing

Well Delta sells 57% and wants to sell 80% by 2018. AA AS are for Sure doing the same thing.

[urlhttps://skift.com/2016/03/04/delta-to-cut-first-class-prices-after-making-skymiles-upgrades-harder/][url]

"“We want people to be able to use those miles not to fly for free but to control your experience,” says Glen Hauenstein, Delta’s incoming president and architect of the airline’s revenue plans. To do this, Delta plans to adjust the pricing of seats at the front of the plane so more are sold. While Delta currently sells just 57 percent of its first-and business-class cabins, the company said in December that it will boost the figure to 70 percent by 2018. "

Another trick is to just buy miles (If you don't have enough and if the cost of buying them is cheaper then buying the seat outright and a seat if available for miles.)

gsg013 · Mon May 22, 2017 7:22 pm

Coast reminds me of the recently popular term Coastal Elite. While this may do well with the people on the "Coast" how do you think this will go over with the people living in Michigan and Indiana?

alfa164 · Mon May 22, 2017 7:28 pm

intotheair wrote:
I am not a fan of the name, though perhaps it'll grow on me. Some of my first thoughts when I first saw it:
> Let's hope the engines don't "coast" on arrival!
> Let's hope UA isn't "coasting" on the once great p.s. reputation!
> The United Coast — isn't that what they'll call the coastline along the English channel once the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland unite?

My first thought was "just coasting along... resting on our laurels"... which, at the present time. aren't very good laurels... :roll:

DoctorVenkman · Mon May 22, 2017 8:00 pm

gsg013 wrote:
Coast reminds me of the recently popular term Coastal Elite. While this may do well with the people on the "Coast" how do you think this will go over with the people living in Michigan and Indiana?

Why would their opinion matter on a route that flies from New York to California?

gsg013 · Mon May 22, 2017 9:00 pm

As a person who lives in New York City and would probably be generalized as a "Coastal Elite" my point will be that the rest of the country who does not get this special service could be bitter about it and consciously or subconsciously choose to fly another airline due to the branding on these trans-con routes.

pasu129 · Mon May 22, 2017 10:09 pm

United C.S. (Coastal Service)?

jetmatt777 · Mon May 22, 2017 10:47 pm

gsg013 wrote:
As a person who lives in New York City and would probably be generalized as a "Coastal Elite" my point will be that the rest of the country who does not get this special service could be bitter about it and consciously or subconsciously choose to fly another airline due to the branding on these trans-con routes.

So as a Coastal elite you feel yourself qualified to speak for the hundreds of millions of people who do not live on the coast?

WesternA318 · Mon May 22, 2017 10:53 pm

N62NA wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
The bankers and entertainment industry riders will be attracted to it.

I don't think so, because it's not offered to/from JFK.

MAH4546 wrote:
Within 5 years I suspect lieflats will be the norm for carriers on the key transcons between SF/LA and NYC/BOS/WAS/MIA, but it's entirely thanks to JetBlue.

Probably, but not MIA.

AA is going 32B on the LAX route (and maybe all 32B if they drop the 1x 77W in November), with horribly uncomfortable F cabin seats (seats, not lie flat beds), and AA MIA-SFO gets plain old domestic 738s / 32Bs.

I'd personally LOVE to see the 321T do LAX-MIA or SFO-MIA, it's sorely needed.

N62NA · Tue May 23, 2017 1:34 am

WesternA318 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
I'd personally LOVE to see the 321T do LAX-MIA or SFO-MIA, it's sorely needed.

While I would love to see AA's 32T on MIA-LAX/SFO, I doubt it will happen. AA doesn't consider these routes "sufficiently" premium to warrant a consistent schedule of 3 class aircraft.

Now, if UA would make a go of it with their new "United Coast" service, that would be awesome (and also as likely as a blizzard in Miami in July!).

GSPSPOT · Tue May 23, 2017 3:15 am

The word "Coast" in a product name makes me think of soap...

ahj2000 · Tue May 23, 2017 5:36 am

Even looking past my mild United bias, Coast is a terrible name. Maybe it is a bad attempt at courting millenials?

WesternA318 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:49 pm

gsg013 wrote:
As a person who lives in New York City and would probably be generalized as a "Coastal Elite" my point will be that the rest of the country who does not get this special service could be bitter about it and consciously or subconsciously choose to fly another airline due to the branding on these trans-con routes.

I dont live anywhere near the Coast, but i backtrack to LAX specifically to GET on AA A321T to JFK (usually AA2 eastbound and AA1 returning)

CriticalPoint · Fri May 26, 2017 11:18 pm

gsg013 wrote:
As a person who lives in New York City and would probably be generalized as a "Coastal Elite" my point will be that the rest of the country who does not get this special service could be bitter about it and consciously or subconsciously choose to fly another airline due to the branding on these trans-con routes.

PS has been around for years. Never heard of anyone being bitter. :sarcastic:

VC10er · Fri May 26, 2017 11:23 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Even looking past my mild United bias, Coast is a terrible name. Maybe it is a bad attempt at courting millenials?

I'm not defending it - but maybe it was a good attempt to attract a younger audience...I would bet my vital organs they tested it quantitatively and with UA elites. The usual course of action is to select a few names and test each of them monadically, online, then expose a second (one of the others) at the end of the survey...and against a large sample size, then compare the results. It's fast and it's inexpensive to do.

rbavfan · Sat May 27, 2017 3:05 am

BTW please do not use quotes in the titles. It makes them hard to read as it ads &quote on each side of the quote n the title. Makes it hard to read the title if you are good at english. If your not it must be frustrating to members.

flyby519 · Sat May 27, 2017 3:11 am

Is this naming phraseology along the same lines as JetBlue Mint class? Are we about to see everyone come up with catchy names for their front cabin seats?

VC10er · Wed May 31, 2017 4:47 pm

I just got an official email from United. It is not called "Coast" it seems to be "United Business" or oddly, maybe "The United Business"...like "The Bronx"...where I'm from :-)

VC10er · Wed May 31, 2017 4:48 pm

Also touts new food and new amenities (new Saks amenity kit and blankets etc, special cocktails)

jnev3289 · Wed May 31, 2017 4:57 pm

I'll add my support for the name. Hate the airline, but the name works in my opinion

commavia · Wed May 31, 2017 5:20 pm

So other than a new brand, the big news items seem to be (1) hot entree in E+ and (2) formally including BOS-SFO with the NYC-SFO/LAX routes. Cool. Will be interesting to see if/how AA and Delta respond.

fun2fly · Wed May 31, 2017 5:40 pm

What I've noticed is UA pricing First Upgrades at the time of purchase very aggressively. On a recent segment, they offered it for $140+, about $60-70 more than E+. I booked all 7 of us in First both ways for just under $1k each way on a 73G so they sold 7 of 12 seats that day, but at a deep discount vs. free upgrade. It's targeting small/medium sized businesses and leisure travelers as doesn't work with corporate contracts because they are booking via their travel agent vs. United.com.

flyguy84 · Wed May 31, 2017 5:49 pm

commavia wrote:
So other than a new brand, the big news items seem to be (1) hot entree in E+ and (2) formally including BOS-SFO with the NYC-SFO/LAX routes. Cool. Will be interesting to see if/how AA and Delta respond.

They don't need to respond. They already announced free meals on transcon flights for the entire plane, not just part of it.

USAirALB · Wed May 31, 2017 6:29 pm

I'm confused...so nothing has really changed except the addition of a hot meal in Economy Plus and refreshed food options? Is the name still the same.

You can refresh the meals all you want, but nothing will compare when airlines offered two meals in F/J on transcontinental flights. I have a printed menu of United PS back from 2008 that featured a choice of a chilled deli plate or a salmon/shrimp plate prior to arrival. I also have a US printed menu from F-class on SFO-CLT that offered a sandwich, cake, and fruit salad prior to arrival.

Not giving YCL free meals is pretty pathetic, as DL/AA are both offering meals.

flyguy84 · Wed May 31, 2017 6:50 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I'm confused...so nothing has really changed except the addition of a hot meal in Economy Plus and refreshed food options? Is the name still the same.

You can refresh the meals all you want, but nothing will compare when airlines offered two meals in F/J on transcontinental flights. I have a printed menu of United PS back from 2008 that featured a choice of a chilled deli plate or a salmon/shrimp plate prior to arrival. I also have a US printed menu from F-class on SFO-CLT that offered a sandwich, cake, and fruit salad prior to arrival.

Not giving YCL free meals is pretty pathetic, as DL/AA are both offering meals.

No. They are retiring the P.S. brand. They will just be referred to as premium transcontinental routes but no special branding. Really not many changes up front...so this is quite perplexing to say the least.

flyguy84 · Wed May 31, 2017 6:53 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I'm confused...so nothing has really changed except the addition of a hot meal in Economy Plus and refreshed food options? Is the name still the same.

You can refresh the meals all you want, but nothing will compare when airlines offered two meals in F/J on transcontinental flights. I have a printed menu of United PS back from 2008 that featured a choice of a chilled deli plate or a salmon/shrimp plate prior to arrival. I also have a US printed menu from F-class on SFO-CLT that offered a sandwich, cake, and fruit salad prior to arrival.

Not giving YCL free meals is pretty pathetic, as DL/AA are both offering meals.

No. They are retiring the P.S. brand. They will just be referred to as premium transcontinental routes but no special branding. Really not many changes up front...so this is quite perplexing to say the least

Unless they are going to price these flights cheaper in the economy cabin due to lack of amenities then DL/AA, then UA is placing themselves at a huge disadvantage in this market. United continues to cater to their business and high value passenger without giving much thought to casual travelers.

grbauc · Wed May 31, 2017 7:18 pm

N62NA wrote:
WesternA318 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
I'd personally LOVE to see the 321T do LAX-MIA or SFO-MIA, it's sorely needed.

While I would love to see AA's 32T on MIA-LAX/SFO, I doubt it will happen. AA doesn't consider these routes "sufficiently" premium to warrant a consistent schedule of 3 class aircraft.

Now, if UA would make a go of it with their new "United Coast" service, that would be awesome (and also as likely as a blizzard in Miami in July!).

Of course they don't. otherwise they would be running them. They will have to be forced to through competition from others. And since there not known to be a forward thinking, rather a reactionary thinking company that's what it will take.

worldtraveler2 · Wed May 31, 2017 8:51 pm

How about "The Continentals"

SFOtoORD · Wed May 31, 2017 10:35 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I'm confused...so nothing has really changed except the addition of a hot meal in Economy Plus and refreshed food options? Is the name still the same.

You can refresh the meals all you want, but nothing will compare when airlines offered two meals in F/J on transcontinental flights. I have a printed menu of United PS back from 2008 that featured a choice of a chilled deli plate or a salmon/shrimp plate prior to arrival. I also have a US printed menu from F-class on SFO-CLT that offered a sandwich, cake, and fruit salad prior to arrival.

Not giving YCL free meals is pretty pathetic, as DL/AA are both offering meals.

UA is making choices and its at least good to see them have their own point of view. You apparently won't be choosing them on a rock bottom transcon economy fare, but they seem to have decided they are fine with that.

pasu129 · Wed May 31, 2017 11:18 pm

The Continentals by United Air Lines, classic!!! LOL

ua900 · Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:09 am

flyguy84 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I'm confused...so nothing has really changed except the addition of a hot meal in Economy Plus and refreshed food options? Is the name still the same.

You can refresh the meals all you want, but nothing will compare when airlines offered two meals in F/J on transcontinental flights. I have a printed menu of United PS back from 2008 that featured a choice of a chilled deli plate or a salmon/shrimp plate prior to arrival. I also have a US printed menu from F-class on SFO-CLT that offered a sandwich, cake, and fruit salad prior to arrival.

Not giving YCL free meals is pretty pathetic, as DL/AA are both offering meals.

No. They are retiring the P.S. brand. They will just be referred to as premium transcontinental routes but no special branding. Really not many changes up front...so this is quite perplexing to say the least

Unless they are going to price these flights cheaper in the economy cabin due to lack of amenities then DL/AA, then UA is placing themselves at a huge disadvantage in this market. United continues to cater to their business and high value passenger without giving much thought to casual travelers.

Ok, here's the recap of changes.

1. BOS-SFO is going to be 100% flat bed and there's speculation about LAX following suit eventually. Did anyone offer as many regularly scheduled flatbed seats in 2008 as today, both between hubs and even hub > non-hub? If you're chasing that US Airlines meal, most BoBs have hot menu items today for a whopping $10, as much as you'd pay at the airport. I see dumb barcaloungers and fake promotion of "classic service" make room for overall more carefully prepared meals and more customization.
2. Y+ getting comped hot meals and alcohol can easily been seen as catering to casual travelers, since elites already get Y+ comped and 1Ks like myself get BoB and booze comped on top of Y+. They're probably still testing the waters on what to do with Y+ system wide to make it more attractive for casual travelers, and this is deemed a good test bed.
3. More seasonal menus, yeah. Hope they change more than once a month, it gets old after a couple flights. Same for the wine list, even international. Probably shouldn't have picked the Moscow Mule as a picture on local drink ideas as the drink is clearly presented in Business class when every flight attendant I've ever asked for one while sitting in that cabin was quick to point out that it's "an economy drink", whatever that's supposed to mean.
4. Amenity kits looks pretty darn close to the current one, except it's now presented in a small Saks Fifth Ave bag, yeah. Taking the alcohol out of the Cowshed toner or Cow Slip in the bathrooms or hand out some mini set a la United Club would have been more meaningful.

The way I see it, UA continues on their trajectory of hunting ancillary revenue, trying to do a better job with Polaris / Premium, and making life more miserable for people not willing to pay up through loyalty spend or ancillary buy ups. Nothing wrong with that strategy if you manage to fine tune your products to the amount people are willing to pay. And let's remember that fragmenting the product the way UA does makes it more challenging for the likes of ITA / OTA to turn carriers like UA into some kind of Uber of the skies.

amirs · Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:03 am

I'm not a fan of the name
It's too close to "coach"

VC10er · Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:13 pm

The name "coast" must have been killed if it was ever seriously considered. The email promotion is VERY PRETTY, and looks very premium and the Saks 5th Ave bag looks MUCH nicer than the cheap zippered blue portfolio. However, unlike the pictures, some of (ok almost all) of the 757's look pretty shabby...and I am dying for a new aircraft type with new laves and lighting, etc. Using the current BF seat (vs Polaris) is fine for transcontinental, but the oldest ones look old. I say this as someone with a very low chance of flying transcon from Boston...I want to see the new lounges at EWR which are really horrible. WHEN ARE THOSE LOUNGES DUE TO BE RENOVATED IN TC?

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