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KarelXWB
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Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Mon May 22, 2017 2:12 pm

Brussels Airlines received approval for a fleet renewal of 7 A330-300 aircraft with Trent 700 engines. Carrier will replace the older A330s in its fleet and all aircraft will get a new cabin product.

In the course of 2018/2019 Brussels Airlines will replace seven of its ten long-haul aircraft. With this important investment in its long-haul network, the Belgian airline remains loyal to the Airbus A330, the aircraft type that responds best to the commercial and operational needs. Furthermore, all Airbus A330 aircraft will be equipped with an entirely reviewed new cabin providing the highest comfort in all three travel classes (Business Class, Economy Privilege and Economy Class).

In the course of 2018 and 2019 Brussels Airlines will welcome seven Airbus A330-300 ‘CEO’ aircraft, to replace seven older A330-200 and A330-300 aircraft that are close to the end of their leasing period.

The Airbus A330 CEO's will be equipped with a new cabin in all three travel classes, offering even higher quality of comfort. More details about the seat configuration and the state of the art in-flight product will be announced at a later stage.


Press release
https://press.brusselsairlines.com/brus ... haul-fleet

About time, some A330s in their fleet are really old.
Last edited by SQ22 on Mon May 22, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:28 pm

Finally, they convert a single engine type in that fleet. They have all 3 engine OEMs in their A330 fleet.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:34 pm

Why buy 2019 delivery A330-300s instead of A330-900s? The press release is talking about the efficiency improvement of Trent 700s, which strikes me as odd since the Trent 7000 on the A330neo should be available for delivery in 2019
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:34 pm

So what 7 aircraft will leave the fleet? Below is a list of the current fleet, it doesn't look like 7 aircraft is enough to move to a single engine type.

- OO-SFY: A330-200 (MSN 229) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFZ: A330-200 (MSN 249) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFT: A330-200 (MSN 291) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFU: A330-200 (MSN 324) - P&W engines.

- OO-SFM: A330-300 (MSN 30) - GE engines.
- OO-SFN: A330-300 (MSN 37) - GE engines.
- OO-SFO: A330-300 (MSN 45) - GE engines.
- OO-SFW: A330-300 (MSN 82) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFV: A330-300 (MSN 95) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFX: A330-300 (MSN 1085) - RR engines.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:36 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Why buy 2019 delivery A330-300s instead of A330-900s? The press release is talking about the efficiency improvement of Trent 700s, which strikes me as odd since the Trent 7000 on the A330neo should be available for delivery in 2019


I wouldn't be surprised if SN ordered second hand A330s.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:38 pm

The obvious answer is the 5 elderly 333 and 2 of the 332s I suppose?
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:50 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if SN ordered second hand A330s.


Belgian press are reporting that all replacement aircraft will be second hand A330-300s.
They will replace 7 aircraft, a mix of -200 and -300s, but exact numbers are not given.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:51 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if SN ordered second hand A330s.

Indeed, the press release doesn't mention orders, just that 7 planes will join the fleet in 2018 and 2019.

If this is actually the case they will most likely come from Singapore Airlines who will be replacing their relatively young A333s with the A359s and the 787-10s in the same period.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:56 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Why buy 2019 delivery A330-300s instead of A330-900s?


I'd imagine end-of-the-line -300s would be quite a bit cheaper cheaper than -900s. I'm sure SN has done their homework.

After re-reading the PR, it never mentions that these are new aircraft, so I suspect they'll simply be younger used planes.
Last edited by scbriml on Mon May 22, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 2:59 pm

they will be used
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 3:00 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
So what 7 aircraft will leave the fleet? Below is a list of the current fleet, it doesn't look like 7 aircraft is enough to move to a single engine type.

- OO-SFY: A330-200 (MSN 229) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFZ: A330-200 (MSN 249) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFT: A330-200 (MSN 291) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFU: A330-200 (MSN 324) - P&W engines.

- OO-SFM: A330-300 (MSN 30) - GE engines.
- OO-SFN: A330-300 (MSN 37) - GE engines.
- OO-SFO: A330-300 (MSN 45) - GE engines.
- OO-SFW: A330-300 (MSN 82) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFV: A330-300 (MSN 95) - P&W engines.
- OO-SFX: A330-300 (MSN 1085) - RR engines.

Mostly the 5 oldest A333s and 2 A332s
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 3:07 pm

Great choice. A great aircraft that your crews already know and are trained on. Makes a lot of sense.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 3:20 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Why buy 2019 delivery A330-300s instead of A330-900s? The press release is talking about the efficiency improvement of Trent 700s, which strikes me as odd since the Trent 7000 on the A330neo should be available for delivery in 2019

I wouldn't be surprised if SN ordered second hand A330s.

Yes, their current A330s are leased. They could just place orders for newer aircraft from leasing companies. I believe a lot of newish SQ A333s will come off lease in the coming years as more A350s are delivered to them. So there is plenty of supply in the market.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 3:30 pm

I'd imagine the 5 really old 330-300 and then the opportunity to decide between growth and further replacement regarding the 330-200.
 
bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 3:38 pm

seahawk wrote:
they will be used


Indeed,

It was already know for a while and was mentioned already on this forum but until today it wasn't official.

The 7 planes will be sourced from CX and SQ: 4 will come from CX, 3 will come from SQ. The planes will be between 7 and 9 years old.

SN, through parent company LH, bought the 7 planes from the leasing company who is currently leasing the planes to CX and SQ.

According to the information available (luchtzak.be forum) the interior will be brand new with a 3-class layout and thus won't get a "Eurowings LCC configuration":

Business class (upgraded version of the current version, thus completely lie flat)
Economy Privilege (a true premium economy seat contrary to the current privilege offering which is just a few inches more)
Economy

The other planes which will stay (OO-SFT, SFX & SFZ) will also receive the new cabin.

Further expansion (11 & 12th A330) is still planned but the current decision made had only to do with the 7 planes which have expiring leases and are amongst the oldest flying examples
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 4:21 pm

I suggest that the title of the thread be changed to "SN buys used A330s for fleet renewal". You don't order used aircraft. Fyi
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 4:24 pm

rotating14 wrote:
You don't order used aircraft. Fyi


Of course you can order used aircraft. You can call a lessor and order some aircraft if they are up for sale. Hence those A330s are new equipment for the SN fleet.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 4:28 pm

Good move. This will standardize the fleet with LHs A333 subfleet. Who knows, as A350 keep coming, maybe in the end some of those future SN A330s will even be current LH frames.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
You don't order used aircraft. Fyi


Of course you can order used aircraft. You can call a lessor and order some aircraft if they are up for sale. Hence those A330s are new equipment for the SN fleet.

That's a very narrow parsing of the language. The title is misleading. They are not getting factory fresh aircraft which the title clearly implies. They are making a smart pick-up of used equipment.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines buying 7 used A330-300's

Mon May 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Excellent news, a very astute choice from SN. Why buy an expensive new 787 if your network doesn't fully utilize its long range capabilities? Great news for SN's passengers too who will continue to enjoy the high levels of comfort that the world's premier widebody aircraft has to offer. Does anyone know which lessor is involved and if the aircraft in question are to be leased or purchased? I guess this announcement puts to bed any chance of the Lufthansa group ordering any 787s in the medium term.

I wonder how long until LH acquires some A330s for Austrian?
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 6:43 pm

My guess is they will replace at least some of the oldest frames that have two digit serial numbers. Those are some of the first A330s ever built and were in the Sabena fleet (most with lives even before that with Air Inter!)

Should be interesting to see what they do to the cabins too. Maybe a true W? I don't think SN is getting the same J seat as LH, OS, and LX are getting in 2020.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 6:50 pm

Bricktop wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
You don't order used aircraft. Fyi


Of course you can order used aircraft. You can call a lessor and order some aircraft if they are up for sale. Hence those A330s are new equipment for the SN fleet.

That's a very narrow parsing of the language. The title is misleading. They are not getting factory fresh aircraft which the title clearly implies. They are making a smart pick-up of used equipment.



I think the title of the thread and then the article itself makes it confusing. The article is written so that you would think these are new airplane orders even though they are not. The title of the thread also implies a new airplane order. Who thinks "orders new A330" means replace used airplanes with used airplanes? It tricked me. Maybe Brussels Airlines is trying to make it sound like they are getting new airplanes for PR benefit without admitting they are used.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 7:07 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
- OO-SFM: A330-300 (MSN 30) - GE engines.
- OO-SFN: A330-300 (MSN 37) - GE engines.
- OO-SFO: A330-300 (MSN 45) - GE engines.

.

Mostly the 5 oldest A333s and 2 A332s


Those oldest 330s were, I think, from the original Air Inter A330 order for five; two went to Aer Lingus (long since departed the EI fleet); these were the other three, I think. They were the "A" models, so to speak, with low MTOWs (215,000kgs,I think), so probably restricted to African routes because of this (shorter range, excessive payload constraints on US/Canada flights).

So, it makes sense to get higher MTOW aircraft; there are probably a fair few carriers upgrading to A350s and 787s that are probably looking to get rid of theirs (I know SIA sold/leased a few of theirs to TP recently; SQ a possible source?)

Thread title should probably be altered, because it's not actually a new order (if I understand what's been said already?)
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Mon May 22, 2017 7:25 pm

Where are they coming from?
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bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Mon May 22, 2017 7:29 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Where are they coming from?


Bought from a lessor, currently flying with Cathay Pacific (4 planes) and Singapore Airlines (3 planes). Age between 7 and 9 years old.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Mon May 22, 2017 7:43 pm

Of course you can order used aircraft. Leasors hold orders, options and letters/expressions of intent, just like manufacturers from prospective customers.

End of lease balloon payments, which include interior refurbishment, due from the current leasees, will fund part or all of the new interiors.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 7:55 pm

kaitak wrote:
Those oldest 330s were, I think, from the original Air Inter A330 order for five; two went to Aer Lingus (long since departed the EI fleet); these were the other three, I think. They were the "A" models, so to speak, with low MTOWs (215,000kgs,I think), so probably restricted to African routes because of this (shorter range, excessive payload constraints on US/Canada flights).


Actually, they fly North American routes all the time, because those are less cargo heavy than the African routes. The single younger A330 in the fleet flies almost exclusively to Africa precisely because of the higher MTOW, which allows them to take more cargo.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 8:39 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I think the title of the thread and then the article itself makes it confusing. The article is written so that you would think these are new airplane orders even though they are not. The title of the thread also implies a new airplane order. Who thinks "orders new A330" means replace used airplanes with used airplanes? It tricked me. Maybe Brussels Airlines is trying to make it sound like they are getting new airplanes for PR benefit without admitting they are used.


You're reading too much into it. It's like buying a second-hand car, coming home and call "honey we got a new car". People use "new" in many different contexts.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Mon May 22, 2017 9:55 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
I think the title of the thread and then the article itself makes it confusing. The article is written so that you would think these are new airplane orders even though they are not. The title of the thread also implies a new airplane order. Who thinks "orders new A330" means replace used airplanes with used airplanes? It tricked me. Maybe Brussels Airlines is trying to make it sound like they are getting new airplanes for PR benefit without admitting they are used.


You're reading too much into it. It's like buying a second-hand car, coming home and call "honey we got a new car". People use "new" in many different contexts.


I fully second Newbiepilot about the tone of the press release. From a Belgian or a European perspective, there is a lot to say about such a fleet decision. But let's start with the good news in between the lines: we can be pretty sure that for the next 10 years, the long haul Y-class will remain 8 abreast at SN :thumbsup: :thumbsup: .

Back to the less positive. Even though I understand that this is a wise financial decision (if oil prices remain low), it's quite shocking to see SN buying the most outdated aircraft possible for its long haul fleet. Used A330s are now the nosiest and the most polluting aircraft of this category available on the market. In this day and age when (you name it):
- complains about noise emissions from BRU operations has never been so high
- European nations (taxpayers) subsidy wind turbines in the tune of billions per year with little or no impact on pollution levels
- European cities are multiplying the "low emission areas" banning old cars from our cities, or even banning all cars for the most extreme cities
- more and more airlines, including the ones from third world countries (like ET), operate or are about to operate the latest generation long haul aircraft to Brussels

we have Brussels Airlines, based in the capital city of Europe, boasting its great investment in " ‘CEO’ aircraft will all be equipped with Rolls Royce Trent 700 engines. This engine type that consumes less fuel and emits less noise and CO2". Come on, that could have lest such a sentence out of their press release. Who are they trying to fool? I'm not even sure that an RR-powered A330 taking off at 230t would burn less fuel than the ancient GE-powered A330 taking of at 212 or 217 tonnes.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Mon May 22, 2017 10:59 pm

Given the price oil now and for the next 10 years this is a smart move.

Sure a used 330 may not be as fuel efficient as a NEO, 787 or 350 but I gotta believe capital costs and availability swamp and fuel savings. I mean what good are theoretical fuel savings?
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Tue May 23, 2017 12:20 am

tomcat wrote:

I fully second Newbiepilot about the tone of the press release. From a Belgian or a European perspective, there is a lot to say about such a fleet decision. But let's start with the good news in between the lines: we can be pretty sure that for the next 10 years, the long haul Y-class will remain 8 abreast at SN :thumbsup: :thumbsup: .

Back to the less positive. Even though I understand that this is a wise financial decision (if oil prices remain low), it's quite shocking to see SN buying the most outdated aircraft possible for its long haul fleet. Used A330s are now the nosiest and the most polluting aircraft of this category available on the market. In this day and age when (you name it):
- complains about noise emissions from BRU operations has never been so high
- European nations (taxpayers) subsidy wind turbines in the tune of billions per year with little or no impact on pollution levels
- European cities are multiplying the "low emission areas" banning old cars from our cities, or even banning all cars for the most extreme cities
- more and more airlines, including the ones from third world countries (like ET), operate or are about to operate the latest generation long haul aircraft to Brussels

we have Brussels Airlines, based in the capital city of Europe, boasting its great investment in " ‘CEO’ aircraft will all be equipped with Rolls Royce Trent 700 engines. This engine type that consumes less fuel and emits less noise and CO2". Come on, that could have lest such a sentence out of their press release. Who are they trying to fool? I'm not even sure that an RR-powered A330 taking off at 230t would burn less fuel than the ancient GE-powered A330 taking of at 212 or 217 tonnes.


To be frank, there is a huge difference between a new A330 and a very early A330. And the second mitigation: a 777-200/ER is much more noisy....

In the SQ fleet, my preferred aircraft is the A333 - 8 abreast, much more quiet than the 777s.
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 12:31 am

How many A330's is AA getting rid of - could they be from AA?
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 12:49 am

I think this is a great purchase for Brussels Airlines (the other BA, lol!). Glad to see the investment in the fleet.

PITflights wrote:
How many A330's is AA getting rid of - could they be from AA?


They come from SQ and CX -- see reply 15.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Tue May 23, 2017 12:59 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Why buy 2019 delivery A330-300s instead of A330-900s? The press release is talking about the efficiency improvement of Trent 700s, which strikes me as odd since the Trent 7000 on the A330neo should be available for delivery in 2019


Maybe because the new, next generation aircraft will be A LOT more expensive? This is a very smart, conservative move on their part.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 1:22 am

I expect that only the two 332s owned by parent Lufthansa won't be replaced. Those two might also be the only owned planes in the SN fleet. Most of those A333s are ready for scrap...they have the first one in service that flew for Air Inter.
 
bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 4:55 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I expect that only the two 332s owned by parent Lufthansa won't be replaced. Those two might also be the only owned planes in the SN fleet. Most of those A333s are ready for scrap...they have the first one in service that flew for Air Inter.


OO-SFT, SFX and SFY will remain in the SN fleet. (leasings expiring in 2021/2022)

All planes in SN's fleet are currently leased, including the ex-Swiss planes which were apparently sold to Castlelake. The replacements are being bought though.


I wouldn't call SN's fleet ready for scrap, yes they have amongst the oldest flying A330's but they are very well maintained and SN isn't the only airline with "older" planes, think BA, DL, etc... all have older planes in use. But those (very) early A330's aren't the most efficient planes in the fleet and thus ready to be replaced.
 
SN-MD11
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 5:07 am

Very conservative choice... One can question LH's long term involvement and backing, considering SN gets second hand A330s and LX gets brand new 77Ws... LX gets all factory new fleet.
The PR of brussels airlines is here a pure stunt. The logical and natural choice for SN was the A330-900.

Well at least their fleet is "refreshed" as it was the oldest long-haul fleet of all European legacy carriers. Some of their A333 are MTOW 215 tons limited !!
Moreover, CX and SQ have a very good maintenance record. Now, anyone knows which CX and SQ frames are concerned ? '
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 5:54 am

SN-MD11 wrote:
Very conservative choice... One can question LH's long term involvement and backing, considering SN gets second hand A330s and LX gets brand new 77Ws... LX gets all factory new fleet.
The PR of brussels airlines is here a pure stunt. The logical and natural choice for SN was the A330-900.
'


Sometimes I am really amazed by the conclusions people deduct based on the Information.
LH Group is buying seven widebodies, just 7 to 9 years old. That is a serious investment. Apparently the mega orders of the past years have made us blind for the implications of millions and millions of hard cash such a renewal as in Brussels case costs.
Hence, I consider this a prudent, financially wise move, hardly lacking any long term involvement. Quite the opposite.

LX is getting brand new 77W because the profit margin of LX is and was consistently the highest in the LH Group of airlines. Who earns money gets new stuff in an environment of restricted Investment possibilities.

The logical and natural choice then was obviously the A330-300 with the Trent 700 engine - because thats what has been chosen by the people having actual access to the numbers.
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Tue May 23, 2017 7:28 am

tomcat wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
I think the title of the thread and then the article itself makes it confusing. The article is written so that you would think these are new airplane orders even though they are not. The title of the thread also implies a new airplane order. Who thinks "orders new A330" means replace used airplanes with used airplanes? It tricked me. Maybe Brussels Airlines is trying to make it sound like they are getting new airplanes for PR benefit without admitting they are used.


You're reading too much into it. It's like buying a second-hand car, coming home and call "honey we got a new car". People use "new" in many different contexts.


I fully second Newbiepilot about the tone of the press release. From a Belgian or a European perspective, there is a lot to say about such a fleet decision. But let's start with the good news in between the lines: we can be pretty sure that for the next 10 years, the long haul Y-class will remain 8 abreast at SN :thumbsup: :thumbsup: .

Back to the less positive. Even though I understand that this is a wise financial decision (if oil prices remain low), it's quite shocking to see SN buying the most outdated aircraft possible for its long haul fleet. Used A330s are now the nosiest and the most polluting aircraft of this category available on the market. In this day and age when (you name it):
- complains about noise emissions from BRU operations has never been so high
- European nations (taxpayers) subsidy wind turbines in the tune of billions per year with little or no impact on pollution levels
- European cities are multiplying the "low emission areas" banning old cars from our cities, or even banning all cars for the most extreme cities
- more and more airlines, including the ones from third world countries (like ET), operate or are about to operate the latest generation long haul aircraft to Brussels

we have Brussels Airlines, based in the capital city of Europe, boasting its great investment in " ‘CEO’ aircraft will all be equipped with Rolls Royce Trent 700 engines. This engine type that consumes less fuel and emits less noise and CO2". Come on, that could have lest such a sentence out of their press release. Who are they trying to fool? I'm not even sure that an RR-powered A330 taking off at 230t would burn less fuel than the ancient GE-powered A330 taking of at 212 or 217 tonnes.


Sorry, but the title "most outdated aircraft possible for its long haul fleet, nosiest and most polluting aircraft of this category" clearly goes to the 767 :stirthepot:
 
SN-MD11
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 2:48 am

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 7:32 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
SN-MD11 wrote:
Very conservative choice... One can question LH's long term involvement and backing, considering SN gets second hand A330s and LX gets brand new 77Ws... LX gets all factory new fleet.
The PR of brussels airlines is here a pure stunt. The logical and natural choice for SN was the A330-900.
'


Sometimes I am really amazed by the conclusions people deduct based on the Information.
LH Group is buying seven widebodies, just 7 to 9 years old. That is a serious investment. Apparently the mega orders of the past years have made us blind for the implications of millions and millions of hard cash such a renewal as in Brussels case costs.
Hence, I consider this a prudent, financially wise move, hardly lacking any long term involvement. Quite the opposite.

LX is getting brand new 77W because the profit margin of LX is and was consistently the highest in the LH Group of airlines. Who earns money gets new stuff in an environment of restricted Investment possibilities.

The logical and natural choice then was obviously the A330-300 with the Trent 700 engine - because thats what has been chosen by the people having actual access to the numbers.


I don't say it's a bad choice, not at all, but I just say that (as usual) the communication department of SN is smoking us out. It's just a replacement by the same type for frames that are, for some, almost 25 years old (causing many AOG cases over the years). For the rest it's a logical choice. I assume all will be 233 tons variants, capable of flying as far as BRU-PEK.
On the other hand, this closes the door for a new route to the U.S West Coast.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 1:48 pm

Best choice for Brussels Airlines given the way they operate in Africa and the resulting low utilisation.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 3:10 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
SN-MD11 wrote:
Very conservative choice... One can question LH's long term involvement and backing, considering SN gets second hand A330s and LX gets brand new 77Ws... LX gets all factory new fleet.
The PR of brussels airlines is here a pure stunt. The logical and natural choice for SN was the A330-900.
'


Sometimes I am really amazed by the conclusions people deduct based on the Information.
LH Group is buying seven widebodies, just 7 to 9 years old. That is a serious investment. Apparently the mega orders of the past years have made us blind for the implications of millions and millions of hard cash such a renewal as in Brussels case costs.
Hence, I consider this a prudent, financially wise move, hardly lacking any long term involvement. Quite the opposite.

A.netters are at their best when spending other people's money.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2991
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 4:40 pm

[url][/url]
Waterbomber wrote:
Best choice for Brussels Airlines given the way they operate in Africa and the resulting low utilisation.


For some of their African destinations and to expand the African network, would the A321neoLR and non LR also work? (Unless the belly cargo demands an A330.)
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 5:45 pm

SN-MD11 wrote:
On the other hand, this closes the door for a new route to the U.S West Coast.


This isn't true is it? Plenty of A330s are on routes longer than BRU-LAX/SFO. And SK currently flies an A333 on LAX-ARN, which is only about 100 miles shy of LAX-BRU.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
sf260
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:59 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 6:38 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Best choice for Brussels Airlines given the way they operate in Africa and the resulting low utilisation.

SN's A330 operation and utilisation is in line with the industry standard. They do not have a particularly low utilisation. If anything non-standard, it would be operating from African airports with rather poor infrastructure.

As far as I understand, A321LR operations to Africa have been considered. As no firms plans have materialised (yet), I guess that the numbers do not work out favourably (for now). The lease price of a brand new A321LR would probably be close to the rate of a 10yo A330, so I wonder how much different the CASK is between these two, it's probably very close.
Cargo is also essential to profitability on some African routes and the A321LR has not the capability to carry much of that past 3000nm. Many flights already combine 2 African destinations, which reduces the need for a smaller aircraft. On the other side, A321LR operations might not need the extra revenue from cargo as they would just/only carry the higher yield passengers on non-stop flights. Maybe it is just not worth it to add 2-3 "odd" A321LR and the added complexity in case of irregularities. I fail to see a big role for the A321LR in SN's Africa network unfortunately, it think the potential to the East Coast is bigger.

I would love to see the A321LR in SN colours, but I don't think we'll see it soon...
 
sf260
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:59 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 6:51 pm

intotheair wrote:
Plenty of A330s are on routes longer than BRU-LAX/SFO. And SK currently flies an A333 on LAX-ARN, which is only about 100 miles shy of LAX-BRU.

Please name 10 A333 routes that are over 4900nm (=LAX-BRU). And now, name one that does it with a 233t A330-300. I am very curious.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 6:59 pm

sf260 wrote:
And now, name one that does it with a 233t A330-300. I am very curious.


TK operates 233t A330-300 aircraft on IST-ATL.

Speaking about weights, the article claims those 7 A330s will have increased MTOW. Do you know the MTOW of the oldest SN A330s, and the MTOW of the incoming A330s?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
sf260
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:59 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 7:19 pm

The oldest M/N/O have a MTOW of 215t. All others are 230t and 233t.
 
Quint1
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:20 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 pm

Is it possible to upgrade these older A330's to 242t spec, just out of curiosity?
 
sf260
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:59 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 7:54 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
TK operates 233t A330-300 aircraft on IST-ATL.

Are you sure? From flightradar24 it seems that only the newest MSN's are operated on this route. To me, it looks like a combination of 238t/242t capable birds.

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