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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue May 23, 2017 10:29 pm

PITflights wrote:
How many A330's is AA getting rid of - could they be from AA?


They are getting rid of 9 of them, their 9 ex-US A333s. Their 15 A332s are not going anywhere, at least not in the near future.

Has SN considered flying BRU-BOS which the old Sabena used to do? That's a market they should look at for route expansion. Just curious to see how much demand there would be on that market.
Ben Soriano
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed May 24, 2017 6:56 am

sf260 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
TK operates 233t A330-300 aircraft on IST-ATL.

Are you sure? From flightradar24 it seems that only the newest MSN's are operated on this route. To me, it looks like a combination of 238t/242t capable birds.


It's perfectly plausible that they upgraded that route to 242t A330s once those aircraft became available. In the past though, TK operated 233t A330s on that route with a payload limit.

Quint1 wrote:
Is it possible to upgrade these older A330's to 242t spec, just out of curiosity?


As far as I'm aware, it's not possible to upgrade as the 242t models are structural different.

sf260 wrote:
The oldest M/N/O have a MTOW of 215t. All others are 230t and 233t.


Then I suppose the incoming ex-SQ/CX A330s are rated at 238t?

What about OO-SFX (MSN 1085)? That's a pretty young ex-SQ A330 with RR engines. Any info on its MTOW?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed May 24, 2017 7:40 am

KarelXWB wrote:
sf260 wrote:
The oldest M/N/O have a MTOW of 215t. All others are 230t and 233t.


Then I suppose the incoming ex-SQ/CX A330s are rated at 238t?

What about OO-SFX (MSN 1085)? That's a pretty young ex-SQ A330 with RR engines. Any info on its MTOW?

I have to correct myself, SFV & W are also 215t, so that makes 5 A330's that have this MTOW limit.

In the current fleet, only SFT and SFX are 233t. The other 3 (SFU/Y/Z) are 230t.

All incoming birds are certified at 233t (upgradable to 235t with MZFW trade).

The roll-over should be an important upgrade as it happens quite often today that a -300 is replaced by a -200 on African routes just for cargo lifting capability. This will no longer be an issue, available cargo capacity to Africa will roughly double with the 'new' birds. (Brand new CEO's wouldn't make much of a difference as they have the same MZFW limit as the 233t variant, which is the main limiting factor on the Africa network).
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed May 24, 2017 7:46 am

sf260 wrote:
The roll-over should be an important upgrade as it happens quite often today that a -300 is replaced by a -200 on African routes just for cargo lifting capability. This will no longer be an issue, available cargo capacity to Africa will roughly double with the 'new' birds. (Brand new CEO's wouldn't make much of a difference as they have the same MZFW limit as the 233t variant, which is the main limiting factor on the Africa network).


Thanks. I guess that explains why some -200s will leave the fleet and get replaced by -300s.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
CX Flyboy
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Thu May 25, 2017 6:37 am

Cathay have 5 A330s being returned to the leasing company in 2018 starting in January, all in the B-LA* series including two which are currently with Cathay Dragon.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:39 pm

More information has reached me regarding the fleet replacement. 5 A330 will join the fleet in 2018, 3 ex-Cathay will join in H1, 2 ex-SIA in H2. Almost all of them will be a couple of months early for a natural roll-over. It would make for an interesting opportunity to operate additional frequencies and/or new destinations, provided that there is enough crew to operate the flights. Interesting year ahead!
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:03 am

sf260 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Plenty of A330s are on routes longer than BRU-LAX/SFO. And SK currently flies an A333 on LAX-ARN, which is only about 100 miles shy of LAX-BRU.

Please name 10 A333 routes that are over 4900nm (=LAX-BRU). And now, name one that does it with a 233t A330-300. I am very curious.

TK operates IST-SIN with A333 for ages before 242t version came out. Same story applies to IST-NRT.

MH operates AKL-KUL at 4700nm with a PW-engined A333 bought before 242t version came out as well.

I've also talked with someone from HU saying the 233t version A333 is more than enough for their PEK-SEA flight, which is again 4700nm GC distance.

These are only some of the examples off top of my head. So no, range should not be too much concern if they really want to operate BRU-LAX. The more important issue that you should ask is: do they have enough fuel capacity for the flight? Remember only the 242t version got the center fuel tank unlocked, so they may be fuel limited on such flight with A333 (If they use A332 this won't be an issue).
 
bcheng925
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:50 am

There will be 4 out of 7 A330-300s coming from Cathay Pacific
Info:
A330-342 MSN776 B-LAD CATHAY PACIFIC
A330-342 MSN850 B-LAE CATHAY PACIFIC
A330-342 MSN915 B-LAH CATHAY PACIFIC
A330-342 MSN959 B-LAI CATHAY PACIFIC
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:51 am

What is your source for the serial numbers? My source indicates MSN 679, 895, 915, 959 as CX a/c, MSN 978, 983, 1132 as SIA a/c.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:03 pm

sf260 wrote:
The oldest M/N/O have a MTOW of 215t.


That's because they were originally ordered by French domestic airline Air Inter to operate on France's trunk routes and perhaps to some other European destinations like LHR.
 
bcheng925
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:44 pm

MSN675 B-LAC will not be quitting because she is already painted in new livery. There is no point for Cathay Pacific to make B-LAC retire from the fleet after new paint.
MSN895 B-LAG is not even a leased aircraft.
So, the 4 aircrafts will be LAD LAE LAH and LAI
 
bcheng925
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Correction:
It should be B-LAD B-LAG B-LAH and B-LAI
with msn 776 895 915 and 959.
and according to your source for SQ...

General Information will be:
(A330-342 MSN675 B-LAC CX) or
(A330-342 MSN776 B-LAD CX)[Either one]

A330-342 MSN895 B-LAG CX
A330-342 MSN915 B-LAH CX
A330-342 MSN959 B-LAI CX
A330-343 MSN978 9V-STA SQ
A330-343 MSN983 9V-STB SQ
A330-343 MSN1132 9V-STO SQ
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:30 pm

sf260 wrote:
What is your source for the serial numbers? My source indicates MSN 679, 895, 915, 959 as CX a/c, MSN 978, 983, 1132 as SIA a/c.

I personally believe MSN 679 (B-LAC) has a lower chance of leaving than MSN 776 (B-LAD), as the former just had a repaint into the new livery not too long ago.

Cheers
Michael
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:41 pm

B-LAC (MSN679) will stay with Cathay until July 2019, apparently Cathay already notified Aercap that they won't extend the lease for this frame. When it eventually joins the Brussels Airlines fleet, the roll-over will be finished (in other words: it will be the last one)
 
bcheng925
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:44 pm

So B-LAD(776) is staying with CX fleet?
Do you know the quit dates for the frame?
General Information will be:
A330-342 MSN675 B-LAC CX July/2019
A330-342 MSN895 B-LAG CX
A330-342 MSN915 B-LAH CX
A330-342 MSN959 B-LAI CX
A330-343 MSN978 9V-STA SQ
A330-343 MSN983 9V-STB SQ
A330-343 MSN1132 9V-STO SQ
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:21 pm

bcheng925 wrote:
A330-342 MSN679 B-LAC CX Oct/2019
A330-342 MSN895 B-LAG CX Mar/2018
A330-342 MSN915 B-LAH CX Jan/2018
A330-342 MSN959 B-LAI CX Apr/2018
A330-343 MSN978 9V-STA SQ Sept/2018
A330-343 MSN983 9V-STB SQ Oct/2018
A330-343 MSN1132 9V-STO SQ Jun/2019

I have added the timeframe in which the aircraft should arrive at SN (Cabin outfitting to the SN lay-out will take place after this date). End of operations of previous operator is usually around 3-4 months earlier.

As you can see, 3 A330 will already arrive in the first 4 months of 2018. As far as I understand, one will be used for operations (mainly to serve additional frequencies to Africa), the 2 other a/c will be stored until the new cabin can be installed (in Q4 2018).
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:26 pm

sf260 wrote:
As you can see, 3 A330 will already arrive in the first 4 months of 2018. As far as I understand, one will be used for operations (mainly to serve additional frequencies to Africa), the 2 other a/c will be stored until the new cabin can be installed (in Q4 2018).


Will the first a/c eventually get the new cabin too?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:47 pm

Yes, but only at the end of 2019. (Unfortunately, but you have to look at stepmom Lufthansa for messing up the whole schedule)
 
Joost
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Slightly unrelated but the OO-SFT got me thinking: I was extremely surprised that they have given their ex Swissair / Swiss / Edelweiss A330-200 P&W, MSN 291, which they received last January, the registration OO-SFT.
The reason is that until 2002, Sabena also had an OO-SFT, which was also an A330-200 P&W (MSN 322), which also happened to fly for Swiss and is now flying for Air Berlin.

From a regulator point of view, this sounds like a recipe for ultimate confusion, especially as the aircraft are almost identical and are also both still flying.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:55 pm

Joost wrote:
From a regulator point of view, this sounds like a recipe for ultimate confusion, especially as the aircraft are almost identical and are also both still flying.

A number of registrations from 2001 (Sabena bankruptcy) have been taken up again by the recent A319/A320 additions. I think the Belgian CAA allows registrations to be re-used after 10 years as they feel it is long enough to avoid any confusion. (Apparently their administration system also doesn't allow to change TCQ, TCV, TCH into a "SN..." registration, so they will always be the odd ones in the fleet).

Registrations for the "new" A330's will start with SFB. (SFA is a DA42 operated by the former "Sabena Flight Academy", now CAE Brussels)
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:26 pm

Great thing for SN as I always thought RRs powered A333s / 233-235t variants would be the most adapted version for their network.

Of course, 242t variants or A33N would be ideal, but given their current situation, I'm already happy with those "new" machines coming. Their current fleet specs needs are pretty similar top TP's.

I don't see SN opening the US West Coast anytime soon, as it'd need to be daily to fit all their BRU schedules. And to make this happen, they would need TWO frames. And yes a 235t could operate BRU-SFO without payload penalties... as it could do for a BRU-JNB by the way.

I wonder what their stance would have been about ex-AB's birds, should the bankruptcy have happened earlier.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
bcheng925
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:02 am

B-LAH msn915 from Cathay Pacific (CX) is joining the fleet in 2018-Jan, aircrafts would leave the previous fleet 2-3 months earlier as stated before. When will the A/C officially leave and where will it be stored before joining Brussels Airlines fleet? Thank you.
 
bcheng925
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:55 am

B-LAH msn915 has left CX fleet and is now being stored in Xmn(china), maybe coming later?
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:35 am

They will need it in time to operate the DUS routes, i.e. Summer schedule.
 
Croden
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:59 pm

Is there any chance that one of these A330s could open up a new route to Houston?
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:24 pm

Croden wrote:
Is there any chance that one of these A330s could open up a new route to Houston?


I guess the route IAH BRU will be a UA route and not an SN route...
 
Croden
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:46 pm

Why do you say that?
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:00 pm

Croden wrote:
Why do you say that?


I think that UA wants to focus on Africa and favor direct flights by removing triangular flights. As there are no new aircraft planned at the moment (in number) I suppose that IAH is not a priority of other than IAH is the hub of UA with which SN seems to work very closely.
 
NZ321
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:16 pm

Wow the two earliest Cathay birds are not young and I imagine probably not low cycle - I wonder why they picked these frames
Plane mad!
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:24 am

NZ321 wrote:
Wow the two earliest Cathay birds are not young and I imagine probably not low cycle - I wonder why they picked these frames


Because they were cheap
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:48 am

DUSZRH wrote:
They will need it in time to operate the DUS routes, i.e. Summer schedule.


AT east two routes will be operated with A343s instead, sourced from the existing LH fleet.

BTW, the MTOW increase to 238t unlocked the center line fuel tank on the A333. 238t and 242t A333s both have it unlocked.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:07 am

NZ321 wrote:
Wow the two earliest Cathay birds are not young and I imagine probably not low cycle - I wonder why they picked these frames

B-LAC/G/H are/were CX's long-haul A333s (with long-haul cabin) spending ages flying down to Australia so I don't think their cycle number would be as high as its regional counterparts.

Michael
 
viennafly
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:20 pm

bcheng925 wrote:
So B-LAD(776) is staying with CX fleet?
Do you know the quit dates for the frame?
General Information will be:
A330-342 MSN675 B-LAC CX July/2019
A330-342 MSN895 B-LAG CX
A330-342 MSN915 B-LAH CX
A330-342 MSN959 B-LAI CX
A330-343 MSN978 9V-STA SQ
A330-343 MSN983 9V-STB SQ
A330-343 MSN1132 9V-STO SQ


According to this website https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/ the information seems right!

The first A330 "OO-SFB" is already registered and will be delivered ex HKG soon.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:11 pm

viennafly wrote:
bcheng925 wrote:
So B-LAD(776) is staying with CX fleet?
Do you know the quit dates for the frame?
General Information will be:
A330-342 MSN675 B-LAC CX July/2019
A330-342 MSN895 B-LAG CX
A330-342 MSN915 B-LAH CX
A330-342 MSN959 B-LAI CX
A330-343 MSN978 9V-STA SQ
A330-343 MSN983 9V-STB SQ
A330-343 MSN1132 9V-STO SQ


According to this website https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/ the information seems right!

The first A330 "OO-SFB" is already registered and will be delivered ex HKG soon.


Except, it obviously isn't right.

MSN675 is a GE-powered A330 with China Airlines.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Brussels Airlines getting seven used A330-300's

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:18 pm

That should be MSN 679 instead.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brussels Airlines orders new A330-300 equipment

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:44 pm

tomcat wrote:
it's quite shocking to see SN buying the most outdated aircraft possible for its long haul fleet.


You do know those are still coming off the line brand new and there is still a backlog of a hundred+ aircraft?

Used A330s are now the nosiest and the most polluting aircraft of this category available on the market.


The very used aircraft getting replaced, yes, but these are not much older than the oldest 787.

Best regards
Thomas
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