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737tanker
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri May 26, 2017 10:56 am

A350 wrote:
Isn't there a story that the screens WN`s NGs emulate the round gauges at 737 classic cockpits for interoperability? In that case it probably wouldn`t be very useful and even not certified to emulates classic cockpits in MAXs. It would be better be switch the software of the NGs back to standard. I suppose the cockpits of NGs and MAXs are quite similar anyway so that they can be flown by the same pilots.

The -700 glass did the have round dials when WN 1st got the aircraft. However they were switched over to the normal glass configuration back in 2010 when WN started doing RNAV approachs.
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri May 26, 2017 1:14 pm

SXDFC wrote:
The -300s can be found anywhere throughout the system. As for the 3 gold -700s, there are only two left now. 792 was repainted in December.


Those two would be N711HK (tribute to Herb Kelleher) and N714CB (tribute to Colleen __________ (don't remember her last name)). I was lucky enough to see (and photograph) Ship 711 at MDW 5 years ago, while waiting for a flight back to FLL (operated by brand new (4th day in service!) 738 N8310C) :mrgreen:
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri May 26, 2017 4:03 pm

swafa wrote:
barney captain wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.


Yes, and when we got down to less than 50 -200's, the FAA made us segregate the fleet due to lack of currency in all types.

We can be qualified on the Classics and the NG's, or the NG's and the MAX, but not across all three variants. There is simply too much of of difference between a WN steam gauge -300 and a MAX. The Fed's weren't going for it. That coupled with the AD for the NGS in the Classics made this a done deal.

And as noted, the draw-down isn't nearly as dramatic as you portray it. The dispatch reliability on the classics is @ 65%. Compare that to greater than 95% for an NG - so one NG can replace roughly 1.5 classics. Additionally, the -800's and MAX's that are being added are 175 seats vs the lift of the classics @ 137/143. Fleet count may temporarily dip slightly, but available seats will hardly change at all.



What he said.
It was reported (4th quarter financials?) that fleet count would be down 20 frames at the end of 2017 compared to the beginning. But by the end of 2018 fleet size would be up 20 frames compared to beginning of 2017.

All this noise for down 20 during the slow season? Ugh... No big deal, in particular with all the 738s and -8 MAXs.

Lightsaber
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7673mech
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri May 26, 2017 4:40 pm

737tanker wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.


They never operated all 3 families at the same time. That is where the problem lies. Theoretically, WN can operate all three families (Classic, Next-generation & Max) however that would require them to split the pilot group into two groups classic/ng & ng/max. WN is uninterested in doing that so hence why the classics are being retired early. The FAA will not allow 3 family operation as the differences span is too great between the classic and max


In fact WN did operate the -200, -300, -500 , and -700 at the same time. My first flight in the -700 was November of 1998 and my last flight in a -200 was October of 2001. The DAL and HOU crews flew the -200 well beyond that.

The -300s are being primarily being retired early due to the fact that WN management doesn't want to install the NGS (which is required by AD by January 1, 2018) onto these aircraft. If WN wanted to keep flying the Classics they would have installed the NGS and worked out an agreement with SWAPA. Just like they did when the -200s were restricted to DAL and HOU crews.


SWA was also much smaller back then.
 
7673mech
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri May 26, 2017 4:44 pm

n471wn wrote:
We have discussed this in past threads and I agree that WN is making a mistake to take this capacity hit when their RPM's growth last month was over 8% and other airlines (e.g. UAL) are upping their capacity. Most surprising is that they have quit buying up used 700's with only 10 now not yet in service. It would seem prudent to buy/lease at least 20 more used 700's and have them in service before that fateful day of Oct 1st. I love WN but to lose 75 aircraft over the next 4 months and think their customers will not be impacted is naive.


You realize that "It would seem prudent to buy/lease at least 20 more used 700's and have them in service before that fateful day of Oct 1st." is not possible. Right?
The lead time on the interiors is very long and the transition takes a minimum 60 days to make it look like SWA.
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri May 26, 2017 5:07 pm

7673mech wrote:
n471wn wrote:
We have discussed this in past threads and I agree that WN is making a mistake to take this capacity hit when their RPM's growth last month was over 8% and other airlines (e.g. UAL) are upping their capacity. Most surprising is that they have quit buying up used 700's with only 10 now not yet in service. It would seem prudent to buy/lease at least 20 more used 700's and have them in service before that fateful day of Oct 1st. I love WN but to lose 75 aircraft over the next 4 months and think their customers will not be impacted is naive.


You realize that "It would seem prudent to buy/lease at least 20 more used 700's and have them in service before that fateful day of Oct 1st." is not possible. Right?
The lead time on the interiors is very long and the transition takes a minimum 60 days to make it look like SWA.


Lead time is now down to 30 days and they roll in and out of PAE every two weeks as the provider there is getting very good at it
 
SJCMSP
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:26 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know what routes the -300's are popping up on these days? Want to catch one or two more before they are retired.



I flew on one on Saturday BWI-MSP. I think the whole routing was RSW-BWI-MSP-STL-BNA-DAL-HOU
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:51 pm

SJCMSP wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know what routes the -300's are popping up on these days? Want to catch one or two more before they are retired.



I flew on one on Saturday BWI-MSP. I think the whole routing was RSW-BWI-MSP-STL-BNA-DAL-HOU


Come through HOU on your next trip and you're sure to have a chance to fly on one. Dress appropriately though, the back of the cabin on most days in HOU will approach 90 degrees this summer. Enjoy.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:13 pm

I got an older 733 san WIFI but in wonderful condition SFO-PHX last week. It was the gem with the old seats, more leg room config. Those smaller bins tho, with the size of peoples carryons, they certainly fill up fast.
 
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flybynight
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:56 pm

727LOVER wrote:
flybynight wrote:
While in Phoenix the other day I saw a 737-300 in the old livery. I didn't realize that SW still had the old brown planes out there still. A pleasant surprise.


I think you saw a -700


Yes you're right. From a distance it is hard to tell sometimes (even if the 300 is longer).
Heia Norge!
 
n7371f
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:12 am

barney captain wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.


Yes, and when we got down to less than 50 -200's, the FAA made us segregate the fleet due to lack of currency in all types.

We can be qualified on the Classics and the NG's, or the NG's and the MAX, but not across all three variants. There is simply too much of of difference between a WN steam gauge -300 and a MAX. The Fed's weren't going for it. That coupled with the AD for the NGS in the Classics made this a done deal.

And as noted, the draw-down isn't nearly as dramatic as you portray it. The dispatch reliability on the classics is @ 65%. Compare that to greater than 95% for an NG - so one NG can replace roughly 1.5 classics. Additionally, the -800's and MAX's that are being added are 175 seats vs the lift of the classics @ 137/143. Fleet count may temporarily dip slightly, but available seats will hardly change at all.


Your dispatch rating for 73NG is greater than 95%? If it's not 99% or above that's pathetic.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:23 am

flybynight wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
flybynight wrote:
While in Phoenix the other day I saw a 737-300 in the old livery. I didn't realize that SW still had the old brown planes out there still. A pleasant surprise.


I think you saw a -700


Yes you're right. From a distance it is hard to tell sometimes (even if the 300 is longer).



The -700 is longer by about 9",basically nothing. Best way to tell the difference between a WN -300 And -700 are the colored flap canards and hub caps found on the -700.
 
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NearMiss
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:40 am

I wonder if some of those 733s are coming to South America.
"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:57 am

To the extent that anyone at Southwest still cares about operational efficiency, the -300s need to go. Reliability is poor (although I can't believe as bad as 65%), airframes are creaky and heavily patched (which affects efficiency), the aircraft can't climb with the -700s or even -800s and get in the way out of the big "hubs," they're limited to FL370 so can't jump over all the other traffic the way the hot rod -700s routinely do, and service is getting harder. They've had a good ride and are a major piece of Southwest history but it's time.
 
FX1816
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:26 am

ikolkyo wrote:
flybynight wrote:
727LOVER wrote:

I think you saw a -700


Yes you're right. From a distance it is hard to tell sometimes (even if the 300 is longer).



The -700 is longer by about 9",basically nothing. Best way to tell the difference between a WN -300 And -700 are the colored flap canards and hub caps found on the -700.


Actually the flap canards are no longer painted red or orange with the new livery. As I tell my trainee at the tower, the easiest way to differentiate from a -300 to a -700 is the Wifi bubble on the top. The 700's and 800's have them, the -300's do not.

FX1816
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:18 am

kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.


At that point Boing offered difference training on -200 though 700's in the fleet. After max boing will only offer NG to Max difference training.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:45 am

flybynight wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
flybynight wrote:
While in Phoenix the other day I saw a 737-300 in the old livery. I didn't realize that SW still had the old brown planes out there still. A pleasant surprise.


I think you saw a -700


Yes you're right. From a distance it is hard to tell sometimes (even if the 300 is longer).


the -300 is slightly shorter than the -700 due to the longer tail cone on the NG series.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:48 am

ikolkyo wrote:
flybynight wrote:
727LOVER wrote:

I think you saw a -700


Yes you're right. From a distance it is hard to tell sometimes (even if the 300 is longer).



The -700 is longer by about 9",basically nothing. Best way to tell the difference between a WN -300 And -700 are the colored flap canards and hub caps found on the -700.


Also the engine intake is mor rounded vs flat bottomed on the -300/500.
 
flyer737sw
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:37 am

The last 300 flight I could gather, is flight 68 from HOU to DAL. Flight is on September 29, 2017.
Flight arrives DAL at 2335 local.
The max starts service that Sunday with the first flight to HOU out of DAL.
 
fadecfault
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:50 am

n7371f wrote:
barney captain wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.


Yes, and when we got down to less than 50 -200's, the FAA made us segregate the fleet due to lack of currency in all types.

We can be qualified on the Classics and the NG's, or the NG's and the MAX, but not across all three variants. There is simply too much of of difference between a WN steam gauge -300 and a MAX. The Fed's weren't going for it. That coupled with the AD for the NGS in the Classics made this a done deal.

And as noted, the draw-down isn't nearly as dramatic as you portray it. The dispatch reliability on the classics is @ 65%. Compare that to greater than 95% for an NG - so one NG can replace roughly 1.5 classics. Additionally, the -800's and MAX's that are being added are 175 seats vs the lift of the classics @ 137/143. Fleet count may temporarily dip slightly, but available seats will hardly change at all.


Your dispatch rating for 73NG is greater than 95%? If it's not 99% or above that's pathetic.


Mechanical dispatch for the CL looks to have averaged 98.8% for 2016 . I'm not sure where that 65% is coming from. The 800's were about 99.6% and the 700's at 99.4%.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:56 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
flybynight wrote:
727LOVER wrote:

I think you saw a -700


Yes you're right. From a distance it is hard to tell sometimes (even if the 300 is longer).



The -700 is longer by about 9",basically nothing. Best way to tell the difference between a WN -300 And -700 are the colored flap canards and hub caps found on the -700.


I believe the word you are looking for is "flap canoe". Canards are completely different things.
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Sooner787
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:19 pm

When is WN scheduled to receive their first Max's ?
 
flyer737sw
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:22 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
When is WN scheduled to receive their first Max's ?


October 1, 2017.
DAL-HOU first flight
 
Sooner787
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:03 pm

flyer737sw wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
When is WN scheduled to receive their first Max's ?


October 1, 2017.
DAL-HOU first flight


Cool, thanks for those dates, but I assume they'll have a few on property
before that for training. Heck, the have several already painted at RNT :)
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:17 pm

And as noted, the draw-down isn't nearly as dramatic as you portray it. The dispatch reliability on the classics is @ 65%. Compare that to greater than 95% for an NG - so one NG can replace roughly 1.5 classics. Additionally, the -800's and MAX's that are being added are 175 seats vs the lift of the classics @ 137/143. Fleet count may temporarily dip slightly, but available seats will hardly change at all.[/quote]

Your dispatch rating for 73NG is greater than 95%? If it's not 99% or above that's pathetic.[/quote]

Mechanical dispatch for the CL looks to have averaged 98.8% for 2016 . I'm not sure where that 65% is coming from. The 800's were about 99.6% and the 700's at 99.4%.[/quote]

Thanks so much for confirming what I have been saying for months about the dispatch rate for the 300's being at nearly 99%. There was a bogus number of 65% that started appearing in these threads and people who did not know better ran with it. Point being that these last delivered 300 series a/c are performing very well and while SWA pilots want them gone the fact remains that they have many great years left but few buyers
 
fadecfault
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:35 pm

n471wn wrote:
And as noted, the draw-down isn't nearly as dramatic as you portray it. The dispatch reliability on the classics is @ 65%. Compare that to greater than 95% for an NG - so one NG can replace roughly 1.5 classics. Additionally, the -800's and MAX's that are being added are 175 seats vs the lift of the classics @ 137/143. Fleet count may temporarily dip slightly, but available seats will hardly change at all.

Your dispatch rating for 73NG is greater than 95%? If it's not 99% or above that's pathetic.

Mechanical dispatch for the CL looks to have averaged 98.8% for 2016 . I'm not sure where that 65% is coming from. The 800's were about 99.6% and the 700's at 99.4%.

Thanks so much for confirming what I have been saying for months about the dispatch rate for the 300's being at nearly 99%. There was a bogus number of 65% that started appearing in these threads and people who did not know better ran with it. Point being that these last delivered 300 series a/c are performing very well and while SWA pilots want them gone the fact remains that they have many great years left but few buyers


While the newer ones do have a better dispatch rate, as a whole the classic mechanical dispatch rate drifted downward last year.
The views and opinions written here are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
 
Pilot7983
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:37 pm

That's really sad to see them going... Surely them (1995-1997) 733's have more life in them to be sent to someone else? (Pardon my ignorance, I'm new here :P )
I recently flew on a 28 year old Jet2 733 (G-CELG) and it appeared to be in outstanding condition inside and out!

Ed.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:02 am

n471wn wrote:
Thanks so much for confirming what I have been saying for months about the dispatch rate for the 300's being at nearly 99%. There was a bogus number of 65% that started appearing in these threads and people who did not know better ran with it. Point being that these last delivered 300 series a/c are performing very well and while SWA pilots want them gone the fact remains that they have many great years left but few buyers


That 65% number came directly from upper management - on a number of occasions.

Is it BS? I have no idea - I'm just telling you what we were specifically told. I think even Tammy Romo mentioned it at the Investors conference last fall.

As much as you love to blame the pilots for the TIMELY end to the classics - there's that pesky little AD that requires a fuel tank inerting system to be installed by the end of 2017. All of the NG's are being retrofitted - and it ain't cheap. THAT and the FAA not signing off on a cross platform training program are the reasons they are going away. But I've covered this with you before without success.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:42 am

barney captain wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Thanks so much for confirming what I have been saying for months about the dispatch rate for the 300's being at nearly 99%. There was a bogus number of 65% that started appearing in these threads and people who did not know better ran with it. Point being that these last delivered 300 series a/c are performing very well and while SWA pilots want them gone the fact remains that they have many great years left but few buyers


That 65% number came directly from upper management - on a number of occasions.

Is it BS? I have no idea - I'm just telling you what we were specifically told. I think even Tammy Romo mentioned it at the Investors conference last fall.

As much as you love to blame the pilots for the TIMELY end to the classics - there's that pesky little AD that requires a fuel tank inerting system to be installed by the end of 2017. All of the NG's are being retrofitted - and it ain't cheap. THAT and the FAA not signing off on a cross platform training program are the reasons they are going away. But I've covered this with you before without success.




I only questioned the 65% figure which I know to be wrong as the 1995-97 aircraft have very high reliability and Tammy fell into the old statistical trap of drowning in an average water depth of 6 inches but I have covered this with you before without success.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:06 am

n471wn wrote:
barney captain wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Thanks so much for confirming what I have been saying for months about the dispatch rate for the 300's being at nearly 99%. There was a bogus number of 65% that started appearing in these threads and people who did not know better ran with it. Point being that these last delivered 300 series a/c are performing very well and while SWA pilots want them gone the fact remains that they have many great years left but few buyers


That 65% number came directly from upper management - on a number of occasions.

Is it BS? I have no idea - I'm just telling you what we were specifically told. I think even Tammy Romo mentioned it at the Investors conference last fall.

As much as you love to blame the pilots for the TIMELY end to the classics - there's that pesky little AD that requires a fuel tank inerting system to be installed by the end of 2017. All of the NG's are being retrofitted - and it ain't cheap. THAT and the FAA not signing off on a cross platform training program are the reasons they are going away. But I've covered this with you before without success.





I only questioned the 65% figure which I know to be wrong as the 1995-97 aircraft have very high reliability and Tammy fell into the old statistical trap of drowning in an average water depth of 6 inches but I have covered this with you before without success.


You have?

How do you "know it to be wrong?" I cited my source(s), I'm curious as to what yours are.

And -

How would you justify the expense of that AD, just to keep those few classics on property?

It would require a sub-fleet of pilots (per the FAA) as well as increasing mx costs and fuel burn. Some pretty smart people have decided it's time for them to go, so to think you may higher knowledge then the people with the hard data is interesting.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
gr8slvrflt
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:12 am

It was my understanding that 65% of all mechanical delays were attributed to the Classic fleet. That's quite different from 65% dispatch reliability.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:30 pm

gr8slvrflt wrote:
It was my understanding that 65% of all mechanical delays were attributed to the Classic fleet. That's quite different from 65% dispatch reliability.


That would make a lot more sense, but it's still a stretch. Just doing some back of the envelope math, those numbers would check out if the 733 fleet had a dispatch reliability of 91.1%. That seems really low, but way more feasible than 65% dispatch reliability.

SWA Flights per Day = 3900

733 Fleet Size = 75
73G Fleet Size = 497
738 Fleet Size = 151
Total Fleet = 723

733 Dispatch Reliability = 91.1%
73G Dispatch Reliability = 99.4%
738 Dispatch Reliability = 99.6%

733 Mech Delays per Day = (75/723) * 3900 * (1 - 0.911) = 36 per day (65%)
73G Mech Delays per Day = (497/723) * 3900 * (1 - 0.994) = 16 per day (30%)
738 Mech Delays per Day = (151/723) * 3900 * (1 - 0.996) = 3 per day (5%)
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UGA777
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:06 pm

I think they have more than 151 737-800s now. There were a few delivered in the last week or two.
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:38 pm

UGA777 wrote:
I think they have more than 151 737-800s now. There were a few delivered in the last week or two.


157 as of today
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:40 pm

gr8slvrflt wrote:
It was my understanding that 65% of all mechanical delays were attributed to the Classic fleet. That's quite different from 65% dispatch reliability.


Yes and you said it better than I did
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:44 pm

barney captain wrote:
n471wn wrote:
barney captain wrote:

That 65% number came directly from upper management - on a number of occasions.

Is it BS? I have no idea - I'm just telling you what we were specifically told. I think even Tammy Romo mentioned it at the Investors conference last fall.

As much as you love to blame the pilots for the TIMELY end to the classics - there's that pesky little AD that requires a fuel tank inerting system to be installed by the end of 2017. All of the NG's are being retrofitted - and it ain't cheap. THAT and the FAA not signing off on a cross platform training program are the reasons they are going away. But I've covered this with you before without success.





I only questioned the 65% figure which I know to be wrong as the 1995-97 aircraft have very high reliability and Tammy fell into the old statistical trap of drowning in an average water depth of 6 inches but I have covered this with you before without success.


You have?

How do you "know it to be wrong?" I cited my source(s), I'm curious as to what yours are.

And -

How would you justify the expense of that AD, just to keep those few classics on property?

It would require a sub-fleet of pilots (per the FAA) as well as increasing mx costs and fuel burn. Some pretty smart people have decided it's time for them to go, so to think you may higher knowledge then the people with the hard data is interesting.[/quot




I am not disagreeing with you on the FAA cross training or the AD but only on your insistence that he late models 300's are not reliable
 
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Adipasquale
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:02 pm

FX1816 wrote:
Actually the flap canards are no longer painted red or orange with the new livery. As I tell my trainee at the tower, the easiest way to differentiate from a -300 to a -700 is the Wifi bubble on the top. The 700's and 800's have them, the -300's do not.

The Wi-fi bubble is definitely the easiest way to tell the -300 and -700 apart. Also the engine pylon on the classic is more square compared to that of the NG :

I also agree that if WN really wanted to keep the classics, they would have found a way to do it. WN did it with the -200s, and if they really wanted to keep the -300s, I'm sure they could have done the same thing, basing them only in DAL and HOU. However, it doesn't make sense IMHO to spend the not-insignificant amount of money on the fuel inerting system, when even with the modification, the classic's days are numbered.
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UA444
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Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:53 pm

Polot wrote:
flybynight wrote:
While in Phoenix the other day I saw a 737-300 in the old livery. I didn't realize that SW still had the old brown planes out there still. A pleasant surprise.


Southwest has three 73Gs in the old brown livery (well, a modification of the old livery, they are not exactly the same) to represent their first three cities unless they have repainted them. You saw one of those, Southwest has not had any other plane in the original livery for probably close to ten years now.

They had old livery into 2011.
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 631
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

Re: Southwest 737-300

Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:51 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know what routes the -300's are popping up on these days? Want to catch one or two more before they are retired.


I just flew one MEM-BWI on tuesday.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest 737-300

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:40 am

n471wn wrote:

I am not disagreeing with you on the FAA cross training or the AD but only on your insistence that he late models 300's are not reliable


Ah, I understand, thanks for clarifying. I agree they are certainly reliable, but the question is - how much less are they relative to the rest of the NG fleet? I tend to take "facts" from management with a grain of salt, so that 65% number may very well be inaccurate. Dunno. Management at many places will present "facts" to support their position-du jour. If you have a source showing the actual dispatch reliability of the classics, I wasn't kidding - I'd really like to see it. :)
Southeast Of Disorder
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: Southwest 737-300

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:04 am

[threeid][/threeid]
barney captain wrote:
n471wn wrote:

I am not disagreeing with you on the FAA cross training or the AD but only on your insistence that he late models 300's are not reliable


Ah, I understand, thanks for clarifying. I agree they are certainly reliable, but the question is - how much less are they relative to the rest of the NG fleet? I tend to take "facts" from management with a grain of salt, so that 65% number may very well be inaccurate. Dunno. Management at many places will present "facts" to support their position-du jour. If you have a source showing the actual dispatch reliability of the classics, I wasn't kidding - I'd really like to see it. :)


My source is pretty reliable but has to be careful but tells me that the 1997-99 birds are not that far off in reliability to the first 737NG's which are not that much newer. My point is that Tammy spouts off figures that make no sense and it is not fair to these last 300's to be lumped in to the whole 300 fleet
 
dalagent
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:47 pm

per Gary Kelly the last -300 revenue flight will be 9/29 hou-dal.
 
ScottKBUF
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:04 am

Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:46 am

As of now, through FR24, it appears seven more are headed off to VCV tonight.

385, 396, 397, 601, and 627 are currently airborne.
Buffalo, NY
 
TripleA
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest 737-300

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:08 am

ScottKBUF wrote:
As of now, through FR24, it appears seven more are headed off to VCV tonight.

385, 396, 397, 601, and 627 are currently airborne.


Looks like Arizona One is still hanging on for now. It's a shame to see the Classics go.
 
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aal151heavy
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:44 pm

As we head into the last week of SWA B733 flights - anyone know which aircraft (tail numbers) are still flying?
My airliners.net photos
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:02 pm

aal151heavy wrote:
As we head into the last week of SWA B733 flights - anyone know which aircraft (tail numbers) are still flying?


Four WN in the air right now. Although flightaware sometimes has it wrong.

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B733
 
dmg626
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:12 pm

On the skyliners site, there were several 300's that went to Victorville. The comments for one read storage and another read "onward storage". Is there a difference in the way these planes are stored ? Just curious as why they would use different wording like this
 
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aeromoe
Posts: 1451
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:38 pm

As we head into the last week of SWA B733 flights - anyone know which aircraft (tail numbers) are still flying?


You can check FlightRadar24 for the fleet info.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3659
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:42 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
I am reading that Southwest will retire its remaining 75 737-300s by September.

I have heard that this is a necessary step before the 737 MAX can be introduced. Why?

They are some of the last -300s off the line, as new as 1997. Yes, that is 20 years old now, but it still seems young by aviation standards.

Are these -300s really at the end of their life?

And how, operationally, does Southwest plan to deal with the loss of 75 aircraft in a matter of 4-5 months? This is a huge and sudden drop in capacity. They aren’t taking on 75 new 737s in that time frame…



The FAA will only allow common pilot rating on Classic & NG combination ot NG/Max combination. If they kept the -300's they would have to have a completly separate set of pilots to operate 75 planes out of their 735 planes. It woul increase cost aking them even less efficient vs the NG/Max than they are now. Southwest keeps cost down by having a common pilot rating.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3659
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest 737-300

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:46 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
akelley728 wrote:
It's mainly due to Labor and training issues with trying to have three variants of the 737 in its fleet.

http://crankyflier.com/2016/05/09/labor-and-training-issues-push-southwest-to-retire-its-737-classics-next-year/


This is absurd. So many airlines have "more that 3 aircraft types" in their fleet.

Seems as though a lot of the economic benefits of the 737MAX are being washed away by the losses from prematurely retiring perfectly good airplanes.



20 years old they have paid for themselves. You also have to add in higher maintenance as well once that is combined with the cost of a second pilot pool the economics drop fast with such a low % of the fleet being -300's. So no the economic benefit is not being wasted.

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