Southwest 737-300 retirement

barney captain · Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:50 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
MAX flying starts sunday, not tomorrow.

727LOVER wrote:
YEP

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... 7-classics

So how many MAX start tomorrow?

So interestingly, tomorrow - Saturday - will be the only day in WN history where the only types flying will be NG's.

Super80Fan · Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:32 pm

rbavfan wrote:
737tanker wrote:
akelley728 wrote:
It's mainly due to Labor and training issues with trying to have three variants of the 737 in its fleet.

http://crankyflier.com/2016/05/09/labor-and-training-issues-push-southwest-to-retire-its-737-classics-next-year/

The pilots are being blamed but in reality all of the -300s would have to be gone by Dec 31, 2017. That is because WN wasn't going to install the Nitrogen Generating System (NGS) that the FAA was requiring to be installed you Jan 1, 2018. So 25 aircraft Are being retired in June that would have stayed in service to Dec 31st at the most.
The Training issue is that Boeing isn't going to write a program in order to train pilots to fly a -300 and the max. Without that program then there is no differences program that the FAA can approve. Without an approved FAA training program then there is no way to train the pilots on the differences.

Sorry but southwest saying they do not want 2 pilot groups to maintain is not blaming the pilots. 2 pools will create issues if they come up shorts for crew hours. If they need pilots for -300 and do not have enough left due to NG/Max certified how will they fly those planes? A lot of cancellations due to pilot shortage are due to not having enough pilots on one model as the carriers concentrate on training for new fleets. If the FAA will not allow Boeing to cross certify between the older gage cockpits of the -300, the digital ones of the NG that can emulate the old gages and the Max which has no gage display mode. Then WN does not have a choice. Otherwise they increase crew cost & the chance of cancelled flights.

Yep, this is the fault of Boeing's stubbornness and arrogance along with the FAA's political agenda. Southwest and their pilots/the unions are completely innocent here.

Super80Fan · Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:32 pm

barney captain wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
MAX flying starts sunday, not tomorrow.

727LOVER wrote:
YEP

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... 7-classics

So how many MAX start tomorrow?

So interestingly, tomorrow - Saturday - will be the only day in WN history where the only types flying will be NG's.

That's interesting!

Flaps · Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:38 pm

32andBelow wrote:
American 767 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:

Um what? Alaska is flying the -400 pax still you said it in your post, so the whole post makes no sense. There are -400s in charter passenger service.

OK sorry if I wasn't very clear. What I meant to say is, now that Southwest is getting rid of its last Classic 737, Alaska is the only other major US based airline still flying Classics, the 400 variant. But according to Wikipedia, yes I know it's now always a reliable source of info, the last 400s (both Combis and non-Combis) will be gone by the end of this year.

Ok then. Your sentence was Southwest was the last Classic 737 in passenger service in the united states. I also believe Swift operates the type and probably some other charter operators. Miami air?

Swift is still running 300's and 400's.
Xtra still has a few 400's

71Zulu · Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:53 pm

And the band U2 is flying around on a Kaiser Air B735 on their US tour.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/KAI206

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

n471wn · Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:05 pm

SWA fleet goes to 688 this weekend from its high of 735 but of course with the up gauge to more 175 seat a/c the impact is less than it would appear. Interestingly some of these 300's are experiencing the longest flights of their lives on what could be their final flight. Case in point is N640SW which flew last night from BUF to VCV and the flight was 5 hours and 13 minutes!!

mtnwest1979 · Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:09 pm

727LOVER wrote:
YEP

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... 7-classics

So how many MAX start tomorrow?

Zero. The Max start Oct 1.

71Zulu · Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:33 pm

So guess N697SW, the MSY TACA 110 glider has already been retired?

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

RogerMurdock · Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:53 pm

71Zulu wrote:
So guess N697SW, the MSY TACA 110 glider has already been retired?

Retired last December. But one of the sunroof frames, N632SW, gets to fly the last scheduled flight!

Aloha717200 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:01 am

Here's a current look at all airborne 733s over North America. It's interesting how many are still going as of 9pm Eastern. Three of these are currently heading to VCV at this time.

This may be the last time we ever see this many in the air over the continent at once.

RogerMurdock · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:19 am

VCV-bound

BoeingGuy · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:34 am

Super80Fan wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
737tanker wrote:
The pilots are being blamed but in reality all of the -300s would have to be gone by Dec 31, 2017. That is because WN wasn't going to install the Nitrogen Generating System (NGS) that the FAA was requiring to be installed you Jan 1, 2018. So 25 aircraft Are being retired in June that would have stayed in service to Dec 31st at the most.
The Training issue is that Boeing isn't going to write a program in order to train pilots to fly a -300 and the max. Without that program then there is no differences program that the FAA can approve. Without an approved FAA training program then there is no way to train the pilots on the differences.

Sorry but southwest saying they do not want 2 pilot groups to maintain is not blaming the pilots. 2 pools will create issues if they come up shorts for crew hours. If they need pilots for -300 and do not have enough left due to NG/Max certified how will they fly those planes? A lot of cancellations due to pilot shortage are due to not having enough pilots on one model as the carriers concentrate on training for new fleets. If the FAA will not allow Boeing to cross certify between the older gage cockpits of the -300, the digital ones of the NG that can emulate the old gages and the Max which has no gage display mode. Then WN does not have a choice. Otherwise they increase crew cost & the chance of cancelled flights.

Yep, this is the fault of Boeing's stubbornness and arrogance along with the FAA's political agenda. Southwest and their pilots/the unions are completely innocent here.

Do you really know what you are talking about? What is Boeing stubborn and arrogant about? What is the FAA's political agenda?

WNflyer1523 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:36 am

End of an area...

qfatwa · Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:37 am

Flight Aware shows 5 aircraft ferried to Victorville / Marana prior to end of services:
N363SW [Marana]
N390SW
N603SW
N604SW
N640SW [new livery]

727LOVER · Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:40 am

GOODBYE SOUTHWEST 737-300 !!!!

Boeing778X · Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:44 am

OMG so sad!! No! :banghead:

Super80Fan · Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:47 am

Very sad, the -300's to me had a certain charm and uniqueness to them. I can't wait for the -700's to start going (I know it's going to be a while) as I find the -800's and probably the MAX8's when they come into service on WN much more comfortable and offers more room.

TripleA · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:37 am

I apologize if this has already been answered but does anyone know when the new Arizona One plane will be rolled out? Looks like N383SW just made its last revenue flight from DAL to SAT. :cry:

precure787 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:39 am

Reality check: nothing lasts forever. Parts shortages, accompanied by significant age, indicated that these old airframes are reaching the end of their useful lives. In addition, newer models gave better fuel efficiency and much more significant technology than the older models, as manufacturers compete with each other, no matter if it's Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, or Embraer. Likewise, Emirates (the largest 777 operator) have retired their 777 classics (-200, -200ER, and -300) as they're inducing newer 777-300ER and 777X into their fleet.

vhqpa · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:43 am

Last revenue pax flight airborne

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW

https://www.flightradar24.com/SWA68/f0caf27

flyorski · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:49 am

I will miss these birds. Farewell southwest golden girls!

mikelive · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:58 am

TripleA wrote:
I apologize if this has already been answered but does anyone know when the new Arizona One plane will be rolled out? Looks like N383SW just made its last revenue flight from DAL to SAT.

She sure did. I was on board Arizona One for her last revenue flight into SAT. The flight and ground crew - myself included - autographed the hull outside 1L. I signed two other 733's today as well; eventually I will upload the photos of them. :bouncy:

vhqpa · Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:18 am

vhqpa wrote:
Last revenue pax flight airborne

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW

https://www.flightradar24.com/SWA68/f0caf27

Looks like WN195 HOU-AUS N637SW took a 45 min delay making it the last revenue departure.

It appears the last three flights

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW
WN195 HOU-AUS N637SW
WN6049 ATL-MCI N386SW

will all arrive in a minute or two of each other with WN195 the very last arrival

speedbird52 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:46 am

When is the last non revenue 733 flight planned?

WN732 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:01 am

Sad to finally see that it is all over. These birds will be truly missed.

barney captain · Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:32 am

vhqpa wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Last revenue pax flight airborne

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW

https://www.flightradar24.com/SWA68/f0caf27

Looks like WN195 HOU-AUS N637SW took a 45 min delay making it the last revenue departure.

It appears the last three flights

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW
WN195 HOU-AUS N637SW
WN6049 ATL-MCI N386SW

will all arrive in a minute or two of each other with WN195 the very last arrival

Great info - thank you!

usflyguy · Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:35 am

speedbird52 wrote:
When is the last non revenue 733 flight planned?

12 have already been flown to VCV today and a few have gone to other graveyards/scrapping facilities. The rest will probably be moved to their resting places tomorrow.

TWA772LR · Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:37 am

vhqpa wrote:
Last revenue pax flight airborne

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW

https://www.flightradar24.com/SWA68/f0caf27

I just got off of it an hour ago. It was an amazing experience!

Cookies at the gate, crew posing for photos and signing boarding passes, all pax signing the plane as they boarded, a toast with all drunks complimentary, and a water canon salute to top it all off!

This is something I will remember for the rest of my life!

I flew from DAL-HOU just to be in it and that leg was also a 733. It's not everyday you walk off a plane to look at the board and it actually says Victorville. The pax on that plane signed it too but there wasn't much fanfare until the FAs announced that frame was headed to the boneyard.

barney captain · Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:08 am

TWA772LR wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Last revenue pax flight airborne

WN68 HOU-DAL N632SW

https://www.flightradar24.com/SWA68/f0caf27

I just got off of it an hour ago. It was an amazing experience!

Cookies at the gate, crew posing for photos and signing boarding passes, all pax signing the plane as they boarded, a toast with all drunks complimentary, and a water canon salute to top it all off!

This is something I will remember for the rest of my life!

I flew from DAL-HOU just to be in it and that leg was also a 733. It's not everyday you walk off a plane to look at the board and it actually says Victorville. The pax on that plane signed it too but there wasn't much fanfare until the FAs announced that frame was headed to the boneyard.

Great stuff TWA! Thanks for sharing that experience with the rest of us

strfyr51 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:11 am

kaitak744 wrote:
akelley728 wrote:
It's mainly due to Labor and training issues with trying to have three variants of the 737 in its fleet.

http://crankyflier.com/2016/05/09/labor-and-training-issues-push-southwest-to-retire-its-737-classics-next-year/

This is absurd. So many airlines have "more that 3 aircraft types" in their fleet.

Seems as though a lot of the economic benefits of the 737MAX are being washed away by the losses from prematurely retiring perfectly good airplanes.

Those -300's have got to have upwards of 100K landings on them. Those airframes have GOT to be Tired or getting tired and the last overhauls had to have more sheetmetal work than a little bit due to the number of landings and i'll bet major Casting repairs and replacements as well including the wing rear spars for cracking.
Just the replacement SPAR costs $100K not counting the Labor to replace it. Southwest is Good but they're not even that good to avoid those costs.

Beardown91737 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:31 am

Dallas Morning News article today was featuring the frames that would go to VCV for resale and the chance they would continue flying. Those may make their last trips to LAS, PHX, or one of WN's SoCal destinations.

GoSteelers · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:04 pm

Just worked two out of ATL to VCV.

georgiabill · Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:31 pm

How much per plane would the mandated fuel systems up grade cost per plane? Would it have to be installed in any plane sold?

Spacepope · Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:12 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Those -300's have got to have upwards of 100K landings on them. Those airframes have GOT to be Tired or getting tired and the last overhauls had to have more sheetmetal work than a little bit due to the number of landings and i'll bet major Casting repairs and replacements as well including the wing rear spars for cracking.
Just the replacement SPAR costs $100K not counting the Labor to replace it. Southwest is Good but they're not even that good to avoid those costs.

Nope, these airframes only have 60-70,000 cycles on them.

Aloha717200 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:27 pm

It's interesting that Flightaware is still showing WN 733s airborne in rev flights today. About 40 of them. Someone screwed up XD

Jshank83 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:09 pm

Aloha717200 wrote:
It's interesting that Flightaware is still showing WN 733s airborne in rev flights today. About 40 of them. Someone screwed up XD

Flight aware has always been bad about that. Later on it will update mid-flight.

737max8 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:05 pm

The last scheduled revenue 737-300 flight was amazing. Should I upload photos here of #68 or do a trip report?

tomaheath · Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:15 pm

737max8 wrote:
The last scheduled revenue 737-300 flight was amazing. Should I upload photos here of #68 or do a trip report?

Trip report then post the link here?

flyingclrs727 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:15 pm

737max8 wrote:
The last scheduled revenue 737-300 flight was amazing. Should I upload photos here of #68 or do a trip report?

Post a trip report thread, then post a link here.

barney captain · Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:16 pm

737max8 wrote:
The last scheduled revenue 737-300 flight was amazing. Should I upload photos here of #68 or do a trip report?

Maybe a bit of both? It would appropriate in either place I would think....

TripleA · Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:13 pm

N383SW on its way to Victorville right now

precure787 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:50 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.

The airline did so in order for the network to grow, and aircraft replacement was not necessitated. However, as the 737-200s reached the end of their useful lives, the additional 737-700s replaced the 737-200s. Further 737-700 orders in the book have gave room for the 737-300/-500 retirements, although some were converted to the -800s to be used on higher density routes in addition to replacing the -300 and -500 series.

AWACSooner · Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:11 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
a toast with all drunks complimentary,

So the plane was full of Brits on their way to a holiday in Ibiza?

flyingclrs727 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:31 pm

precure787 wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
At one point, they operated 737-200s, 737-300s/-500s, and 737-700s. That is 3 different generations. They managed it then.

The airline did so in order for the network to grow, and aircraft replacement was not necessitated. However, as the 737-200s reached the end of their useful lives, the additional 737-700s replaced the 737-200s. Further 737-700 orders in the book have gave room for the 737-300/-500 retirements, although some were converted to the -800s to be used on higher density routes in addition to replacing the -300 and -500 series.

More like 2.5 generations. WN had their 737-300 cockpits configured to be similar to the 737-200's.

putthoff · Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:03 am

Apologies if already answered---with all of these retirements yesterday/today, what happens with the pilots? Is there a surplus now? Are many waiting to be retrained? What are the logistics of working with these pilots and crews? It would seem that some might lose wages during this time?

n471wn · Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:29 am

Mission accomplished as all the 300's are off the property and now the SWA fleet is down to 678 from a high of 735 and I had said the fleet was going to 688 but my math was faulty as it is at 678 going into tomorrow with 9 MAX on the property

RogerMurdock · Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:48 am

n471wn wrote:
Mission accomplished as all the 300's are off the property and now the SWA fleet is down to 678 from a high of 735 and I had said the fleet was going to 688 but my math was faulty as it is at 678 going into tomorrow with 9 MAX on the property

N620SW just took off from AUS.

TWA772LR · Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:56 am

AWACSooner wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
a toast with all drunks complimentary,

So the plane was full of Brits on their way to a holiday in Ibiza?

No, but you're heading to Dallas, you need that drink! :biggrin:

barney captain · Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:09 am

putthoff wrote:
Apologies if already answered---with all of these retirements yesterday/today, what happens with the pilots? Is there a surplus now? Are many waiting to be retrained? What are the logistics of working with these pilots and crews? It would seem that some might lose wages during this time?

No impact beyond the normal yearly flying adjustments. Our scheduled pay varies +/- 10% throughout the year as summer ramps up and then wanes. But even that isn't typically felt as we have great flexibility in adding/reducing how much we fly on an individual monthly basis. The most obvious thing is there is less discretionary flying to pick up - but that happens every year.

Also remember, total aircraft doesn't equate to total aircraft in service. At any one time. there are many aircraft out for heavy maintenance. Simply manipulating/delaying that one element can provide for extra aircraft in service and soften the effect.

In short - really no big deal.

737max8 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:51 am

Here are my photos and captions from the day (bonus trip down to HOU on Arizone One) and Flight #68 in a mini trip report of sorts!

https://imgur.com/a/DmQMN

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