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pipeafcr
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:34 am

How can Avianca be over-ordered? I'm assuming that whoever wrote the article doesn't understand the magnitude of the Colombian domestic market or that Avianca is a national airline in El Salvador, Ecuador, Peru and Costa Rica. If anything they don't have enough planes on order, especially if AVB joins the AV Holdings. Most of AV's orders are the A320 family NEOS and many of those planes will serve to replace some of the CEOs.
Felipe Carrillo
 
WN732
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:42 am

Spacepope wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Also true. In a down turn, the largest planes are at the most risk. After 9/11 the first planes that went to the desert were 747s (mostly -100/-200/-300) and most never came back. It might be (yet another) unfortunate timing of events for the A380, the death knell for its production line. 777x will struggle but IMHO will survive.


My recollection is somewhat different. Us airlines retired many of their older less efficient aircraft. For a while it was like the wholesale slaughter of anything with JT8Ds. The 727 was parked right away at UA, AA, NW... even UPS jot rid of their -200Fs (all their -100s were RR powered). The 732 was also swatted down ASAP in UA and Metrojet fleets.

Since 9/11 there is a new generation of "old stock" aircraft flying around, this time including A320 and soon 737NG airframes. This is having an effect on the secondary used market, with DL ressurecting stored 757s with "only" 80,000 hours on them, and 757/767 freighters pressed into service with double digit line numbers. Heck we just saw ANOTHER DC-8 leave IGM this past week going back into service. Cumulative hours/cycles on the worldwide fleet basically eats 1-2 aicraft's worth daily, so I'm not too worried about rampant overproduction. Yet.



Who bought the DC-8?
 
Andy33
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:42 am

ericm2031 wrote:
BA seems under ordered on the widebody side. Almost 100 747, 767, 77E's that will need replacements at some point but only about 40 widebody on order.

Remaining 767s are shorthaul and domestic only, the A321s that will replace them are on order. All will be gone by the end of next year.
Corporate policy is that 77Es will have a 30 year flying life, so they don't need any replacements at all for them until 2027. Not surprisingly they haven't ordered any yet.
Aircraft are now ordered by parent IAG and allocated to individual subsidiary airlines later. IAG has a substantial supply of options for A350 series planes, which is the IAG standard long-haul bird for the future.
BA itself still holds options for 787s and A388s left over from the days when they did place their own orders.
As we don't know the terms of any of the IAG or BA options, we don't know what sort of delivery could be obtained if and when options are converted to orders.

So the actual widebodies that you'd expect to be be replaced by more widebodies before 2027 are 36 x 744 and 3 x 772 non-ER. Outstanding widebody orders are 4 x 788, 12 x 787-10, 18 x A350-1000 and between 2 and 5 789s (depends on who you speak to). There is an order gap, because some of these planes are intended for long-haul growth, but it is nowhere near as big as you suggest.
 
WN732
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:43 am

Prost wrote:
Won't WN be able to get a lot more utilization from their fleet just by flying red eyes?


I suppose they could, but they currently use the RON time for cleaning/ minor maintenance.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:06 am

EddieDude wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
You do mean Aeromexico and not American?

eamondzhang wrote:
personally don't think they''ll get MAX9, as the take-off performance at MEX would not help. Just my 1c.

Well, Volaris now has A321s after years of only A319s and A320s. Plus, the performance of the -9MAX should be way better than that of the -900 (NG). Even if AM wouldn't be able to use the 739MAX to JFK or so, it would find it very useful for shorter flights where they need more capacity than what the -8 would offer. I can see them flying from GDL to LAX/ONT/SJC/FAT/ORD, and depending on the season or day of the week from MEX to GDL/MTY/CUN/GUA/MIA/TIJ/LAX...

A321 has way better take-off performance than 739/73J, in fact 739/73J are known runway dogs. Given MEX's high altitude nature, the performance could only be worse. Not sure if MAX9 is having a thrust bump compared to current 73J, but if it doesn't, then I don't expect the plane to be able to carry much payload at all.

However I agree that AM needs something bigger than 738 but smaller than their widebody fleet, so they should be investigating into the MAX9's performance.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:32 pm

Hey guys,
My two favourite airlines have under-ordered I believe....
Qantas has 8 x Dreamliners on order and is looking at 777-8 versus A350ULH for nonstop Sydney-London/-NYC routes (unknown number of frames). It has a large order for A32Xneos for the Jetstar family but speculation swirls that at least some of these will end up at QF mainline as the beginning of the 75 x 737-800 replacement cycle....
I believe that Qantas needs to double or more its Dreamliner orders (and is widely expected to do so) whilst making clear it's 737-800 replacement plans, and placing whatever order is necessary for it: MAX v neo with possibly CSeries orders in the mix too???
Virgin Australia has 40 x 737MAX8s on order but really needs to do something with it's widebody plans. The 777-300ERs and A330-200s need to be replaced in my opinion sooner rather than later and indications are that one family of aircraft will be chosen to replace both and allow for expansion. 40 x MAX8s seems to be too few to replace the existing 737-800s (and two remaining -700s) but with Virgin Australia seemingly a bit adrift at the moment management wise, who knows what size and scope it will be in in a decade's time!
Of other airlines down this part of the world, Air Nuigini's order for MAXs and a solitary Dreamliner seem adequate but I see it needing at least one other Dreamliner. Air New Zealand has a trickle of new Dreamliners coming in with an additional couple just recently firmed up and a sensible-sized order for A32Xneos in place. Orders for replacing the 777-300ERs are probably a few years away (but are constantly speculated on) and there is arguably always a chance that ANZ may go larger with the 777-9. Air Vanuatu just put a new 737-800 into service replacing an older example and doesn't seem to need anything else for a long time. Air Tahiti Nue has Dreamliners coming in to replace A340s.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:56 pm

pipeafcr wrote:
How can Avianca be over-ordered? I'm assuming that whoever wrote the article doesn't understand the magnitude of the Colombian domestic market or that Avianca is a national airline in El Salvador, Ecuador, Peru and Costa Rica. If anything they don't have enough planes on order, especially if AVB joins the AV Holdings. Most of AV's orders are the A320 family NEOS and many of those planes will serve to replace some of the CEOs.


Avianca backing out of an A330 that ended up going to Iranair is a sign. They have more than double their current narrowbody fleet on order.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:13 pm

WN732 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Also true. In a down turn, the largest planes are at the most risk. After 9/11 the first planes that went to the desert were 747s (mostly -100/-200/-300) and most never came back. It might be (yet another) unfortunate timing of events for the A380, the death knell for its production line. 777x will struggle but IMHO will survive.


My recollection is somewhat different. Us airlines retired many of their older less efficient aircraft. For a while it was like the wholesale slaughter of anything with JT8Ds. The 727 was parked right away at UA, AA, NW... even UPS jot rid of their -200Fs (all their -100s were RR powered). The 732 was also swatted down ASAP in UA and Metrojet fleets.

Since 9/11 there is a new generation of "old stock" aircraft flying around, this time including A320 and soon 737NG airframes. This is having an effect on the secondary used market, with DL ressurecting stored 757s with "only" 80,000 hours on them, and 757/767 freighters pressed into service with double digit line numbers. Heck we just saw ANOTHER DC-8 leave IGM this past week going back into service. Cumulative hours/cycles on the worldwide fleet basically eats 1-2 aicraft's worth daily, so I'm not too worried about rampant overproduction. Yet.



Who bought the DC-8?


That's a good question. It was still registered to Skybus Jet Cargo, ferried IGM to VCV.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
pipeafcr
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:52 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
How can Avianca be over-ordered? I'm assuming that whoever wrote the article doesn't understand the magnitude of the Colombian domestic market or that Avianca is a national airline in El Salvador, Ecuador, Peru and Costa Rica. If anything they don't have enough planes on order, especially if AVB joins the AV Holdings. Most of AV's orders are the A320 family NEOS and many of those planes will serve to replace some of the CEOs.


Avianca backing out of an A330 that ended up going to Iranair is a sign. They have more than double their current narrowbody fleet on order.


Separate airline as that was for OceanAir (Avianca Brasil) which are controlled by two separate entities.
Felipe Carrillo
 
AAIRLINERS
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:21 pm

Omit favorite, but yes AA has too many aircraft on order and for too many types. The A350's certainly will not come to pass. With the 788/9 deliveries postponed its already been said we have too much lift in the larger aircraft area. The 773 is too big for most of our markets so 20 is quite enough. What has been said is that we wish we could have more 763's. Whether this was in jest or serious talk, that plane has the functionality most needed at AA. They are still making them so maybe for the right price...
 
tjerome
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:31 pm

N292UX wrote:
My favorite: KLM, DL
KLM has only 21 on order, 1 773 and the rest being 787's.
DL has plenty on order... 739's, CS100, A321, A350, A339 (if they're actually delivered), and CR9's for Delta Connection


DL Connection has only two aircraft on order: E175s for SkyWest. That is for all connection carriers. Endeavor did recently get new CR9s though.

I think in the next 5 years or so DL will add more to the widebody fleet, possibly the 787-9 as a true capacity replacement for the 767-300. On the narrowbody end yes they do have a lot on order but I see them eventually adding a MD88/90/A320 replacement in the 160 seat range.
 
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:01 am

It was always clear that the Asian LCC orders were all highly speculative and the contract conditions reflect that. So that UBS report is really not revealing anything new.
 
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:09 am

Southwest Airlines might need to order extra Boeing 737 MAX 7 planes as Southwest Airlines operates routes that might be too big for a 737-800 or a 737 MAX 8.
 
guillelds
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:46 am

A good example could be Avianca. Avianca has 100+ narrowbodies of the Airbus family in order + 10 A350 + 6 787-8 What are they going to do with them if their fleet is almost brand new? And if they are struggling to pay for the lease of their A330 based in Brazil?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:02 am

aviationaware wrote:
It was always clear that the Asian LCC orders were all highly speculative and the contract conditions reflect that. So that UBS report is really not revealing anything new.

any specific order you would like to talk about? What I see is that all Asian carriers are regularly taking delivery of new aircraft.
 
Egerton
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:38 am

Possibly some commentators in this thread may be over-reacting?

Air traffic is still growing strongly, apart from a very small minority of states having economic troubles of which Venezuela is an extreme example. Lead times for new aeroplanes have been exceptionally long, resulting in Airbus to make known they have been taking orders in excess of their production capacity, on the assumption that some of these orders will get cancelled or deferred. I don't know if Boeing have been doing the same?

This is not a unexpected mismatch of future supply and demand. It will be managed by bright people. It is not the end of the word.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:10 am

anshabhi wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It was always clear that the Asian LCC orders were all highly speculative and the contract conditions reflect that. So that UBS report is really not revealing anything new.

any specific order you would like to talk about? What I see is that all Asian carriers are regularly taking delivery of new aircraft.


Well yea, but for how long? IndiGo, Spicejet, AirAsia and Lion Air are taking big bets with those orders, and the OEMs know it. 20 years ago selling practices were a lot more conservative and I doubt any OEM would have sold a backlog of 400+ planes to an upstart carrier from a developing country.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:41 am

Going by "favourite" airline, Qantas is IMHO under ordered.

Only 8 787s is an absolute joke, although I don't think that anybody seriously expects that they won't convert more options when they become due.

The 99 A320/21 NEOs on order are interesting, although I personally don't think that they are "over ordered". Those frames account for, basically, 1-for-1 replacement for the existing JQ/3K/GK fleet. If for whatever reason Jetstar doesn't take them all up I could definitely see some at Qantas mainline as the 73H replacement. Some posters have previously, without evidence, alluded to a desire to keep Qantas and Jetstar operating different models due to pilot contracts and not wanting to pay Jetstar pilots Qantas wages. That arguemnt seems perverse since there is no term in either EBA that would suggest such a thing not to mention that both carriers have operated A330s and will both operate 787s. Therefore one must assume that this is a non-issue, and Qantas could take NEOs if Jetstar doesn't. If Jetstar does take all 99 then Qantas is definitely under-ordered for narrow bodies as they have zero replacement in place for the mainline 737 fleet.

The only question mark hanging over the order book is the 8 A380s.
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TheGeordielad
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:57 am

My favourite airline is Jet2.
I believe they should order more end of the line 738s.They have 19 on order.I think they should order some more to replace all B733s.Plus they need replacements for their B752s. If they were to keep buying used planes they should get them with the c/ns of 3000+ instead of older ones.
 
parapente
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:01 am

The thread starter showed stats that the market has over ordered.That prior to this thread seems to have been generally agreed.Yet when asking about favourite airlines they all (without exception?) are underordered according to writers here.Both can't be right -no?
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:06 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
My two favourite airlines have under-ordered I believe....
Qantas has 8 x Dreamliners on order and is looking at 777-8 versus A350ULH for nonstop Sydney-London/-NYC routes (unknown number of frames). It has a large order for A32Xneos for the Jetstar family but speculation swirls that at least some of these will end up at QF mainline as the beginning of the 75 x 737-800 replacement cycle....
I believe that Qantas needs to double or more its Dreamliner orders (and is widely expected to do so) whilst making clear it's 737-800 replacement plans, and placing whatever order is necessary for it: MAX v neo with possibly CSeries orders in the mix too???
Virgin Australia has 40 x 737MAX8s on order but really needs to do something with it's widebody plans. The 777-300ERs and A330-200s need to be replaced in my opinion sooner rather than later and indications are that one family of aircraft will be chosen to replace both and allow for expansion. 40 x MAX8s seems to be too few to replace the existing 737-800s (and two remaining -700s) but with Virgin Australia seemingly a bit adrift at the moment management wise, who knows what size and scope it will be in in a decade's time!
Of other airlines down this part of the world, Air Nuigini's order for MAXs and a solitary Dreamliner seem adequate but I see it needing at least one other Dreamliner. Air New Zealand has a trickle of new Dreamliners coming in with an additional couple just recently firmed up and a sensible-sized order for A32Xneos in place. Orders for replacing the 777-300ERs are probably a few years away (but are constantly speculated on) and there is arguably always a chance that ANZ may go larger with the 777-9. Air Vanuatu just put a new 737-800 into service replacing an older example and doesn't seem to need anything else for a long time. Air Tahiti Nue has Dreamliners coming in to replace A340s.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Virgin Australia's A330-243s have quite new.Their oldest VH-XFC is only little over 5 years old and newest VH-XFJ is 2.8 years old.They don't need replacing.Mean while their B77Ws oldest VH-VOZ is only 8.4 years old and youngest is VH-VPH which is only 6.6 years old.The B77Ws were refurbished in May 2016.Therefore they won't replace them/need to replace them.
 
Andy33
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:09 am

parapente wrote:
The thread starter showed stats that the market has over ordered.That prior to this thread seems to have been generally agreed.Yet when asking about favourite airlines they all (without exception?) are underordered according to writers here.Both can't be right -no?


Or the airlines that actually have over-ordered are nobody's favourite?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:53 am

Andy33 wrote:
parapente wrote:
The thread starter showed stats that the market has over ordered.That prior to this thread seems to have been generally agreed.Yet when asking about favourite airlines they all (without exception?) are underordered according to writers here.Both can't be right -no?


Or the airlines that actually have over-ordered are nobody's favourite?


Or the airlines which people here believe have over ordered, don't belong to the markets of people here?
Also, those airlines are not really over ordered but they just know their market better than people here who have not even been to the markets they are making predictions about?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:56 am

aviationaware wrote:

Well yea, but for how long? IndiGo, Spicejet, AirAsia and Lion Air are taking big bets with those orders, and the OEMs know it. 20 years ago selling practices were a lot more conservative and I doubt any OEM would have sold a backlog of 400+ planes to an upstart carrier from a developing country.

For as long as all of them are not delivered.

It only tells what the future is going to be like.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:35 pm

anshabhi wrote:
It only tells what the future is going to be like.


Correction: What some optimistic people think it will look like. It might, but it might also come crashing down. India has massive structural problems that aren't going away any time soon, and they threaten this optimistic picture of the future more than just a little.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:44 pm

aviationaware wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
It only tells what the future is going to be like.


Correction: What some optimistic people think it will look like. It might, but it might also come crashing down. India has massive structural problems that aren't going away any time soon, and they threaten this optimistic picture of the future more than just a little.


yes infrastructure constraints are reaching their limits now, but that doesn't means the demand is reducing. I think it will make many airlines go for larger aircraft.
I am hoping for some major A20N->A21N conversion by 6E in upcoming Paris air show.

By 2020/21 India should have many new airports and terminals, including in major cities like Delhi & Mumbai.

I hope you are not referring to any other structural problems (because I don't think there are any).
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:44 pm

jplatts wrote:
Southwest Airlines might need to order extra Boeing 737 MAX 7 planes as Southwest Airlines operates routes that might be too big for a 737-800 or a 737 MAX 8.


Planespotters.net shows Southwest with 500 (yes, five hundred) -700s at an average age of 13.0 years. -700s make up a little more than 2/3 of the entire fleet. They have plenty of 'small' aircraft. They should be focused on upgauging, with Max 9s before they ever take Max 7s.
 
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:55 pm

deltadawg wrote:
Many folks questioned the logic of DL over the last several years for single aisle frames. If I recall correctly DL currently has around 70 A320's with an average age of 21+ years and the A319's number around 55-60 with an average age of 15-16 years old. Given DL's usual stance on life span the A320's should have another 8-10 years left ...


Delta has already retired 3 A320s before their 27th birthday. The remaining A320 fleet has an average age higher than that of the 757-200 subfleet. It's possible (IMHO, probable) that none of Delta's A320s will still be flying for Delta in eight years. Aircraft can hit cycle max, hit hour limit, face poor parts supplies, become too small a subfleet for pilot scheduling - or just be uneconomic. In five years an A320 is going to look awfully sorry wrt fuel burn compared to a Max 8 or CS300.

Delta's putting new interiors + AVOD in 26 year old 757s while retiring 26 year old A320s. Think on that for a bit.
 
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:24 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest Airlines might need to order extra Boeing 737 MAX 7 planes as Southwest Airlines operates routes that might be too big for a 737-800 or a 737 MAX 8.


Planespotters.net shows Southwest with 500 (yes, five hundred) -700s at an average age of 13.0 years. -700s make up a little more than 2/3 of the entire fleet. They have plenty of 'small' aircraft. They should be focused on upgauging, with Max 9s before they ever take Max 7s.

Agreed. WN needs larger aircraft for many routes. The 738/-8 has proven too small for enough routes to justify bringing the -9s into the fleet (I wouldn't bother with 739s, they lack range).

WN is not over-ordered.

There are many over-ordered. But not WN, DL, or LH.

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lightsaber
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:29 pm

parapente wrote:
The thread starter showed stats that the market has over ordered.That prior to this thread seems to have been generally agreed.Yet when asking about favourite airlines they all (without exception?) are underordered according to writers here.Both can't be right -no?

Pick the over-ordered airlines.
AirAsia
Lion Air is over-expanding (slowdown)
I wonder about Spicejet
For once, I think FlyDubai is over-ordered.
Chinese airlines are over-ordered.
Perhaps Frontier
Pegasus
Tigerair


But many we don't know yet. It is they and their competitors over-ordered, so all suffer together.

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Channex757
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:08 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
My favourite airline is Jet2.
I believe they should order more end of the line 738s.They have 19 on order.I think they should order some more to replace all B733s.Plus they need replacements for their B752s. If they were to keep buying used planes they should get them with the c/ns of 3000+ instead of older ones.

They have a new registration block all ready for use. G-DRT* (for Dart Group).

LS may well do a deal for a top-up of line-end 738s. They could even take a look at the 739ER as a potential replacement for the 757s as capacity wouldn't be too much lower. They have also continued opportunistic buying with some recent older aircraft. It's a good policy and helped them grow to where they are today. Many of those secondhand buys are bought with cash and that keeps overheads down.

Can't see LS going for the MAX for at least ten years. It just wouldn't fit; not at the moment anyway.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
deltadawg wrote:
Many folks questioned the logic of DL over the last several years for single aisle frames. If I recall correctly DL currently has around 70 A320's with an average age of 21+ years and the A319's number around 55-60 with an average age of 15-16 years old. Given DL's usual stance on life span the A320's should have another 8-10 years left ...


Delta has already retired 3 A320s before their 27th birthday. The remaining A320 fleet has an average age higher than that of the 757-200 subfleet. It's possible (IMHO, probable) that none of Delta's A320s will still be flying for Delta in eight years. Aircraft can hit cycle max, hit hour limit, face poor parts supplies, become too small a subfleet for pilot scheduling - or just be uneconomic. In five years an A320 is going to look awfully sorry wrt fuel burn compared to a Max 8 or CS300.

Delta's putting new interiors + AVOD in 26 year old 757s while retiring 26 year old A320s. Think on that for a bit.

A bit of a red herring, the use of age in your argument. The DL A320s getting parked are all the "small motor" variants, with about 4 more to go this year. It's not age driving this fleet decision, it's a small sub fleet with a different engine that is due for heavy checks. I think the remainder will be flying for DL much longer than 8 years, and may well outlive the 752 fleet.
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ZKNCI
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Re: Does Your Favorite Airline Have Too Many Planes On Order?

Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:15 am

parapente wrote:
The thread starter showed stats that the market has over ordered.That prior to this thread seems to have been generally agreed.Yet when asking about favourite airlines they all (without exception?) are underordered according to writers here.Both can't be right -no?


Overall trends are that airlines collectively have over-ordered, but that does not mean all the airlines individually have, just some which may not be favourites mentioned yet have massively overordered. In my case, I'm pretty sure Air Chathams hasn't contributed to the general over-ordering, as they don't have anything on order and have never bought new :spin: (The last aircraft they bought were CV580s for spare parts....)

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