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AMALH747430
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:02 pm

This isn't good for any of the ME3. Instability in the Middle East gives travellers, particularly​ those on the west side of the Atlantic, one more reason to avoid transiting through that part of the world. In order for the ME3's business model to work they have to provide a superior experience at a very competitive price AND passengers must feel that transiting through DOH, DXB, or AUH carries no more risk than traditional hubs. This puts QR and DOH in a real pickle.
Last edited by AMALH747430 on Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 2364
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:03 pm

Glad to hear these nations are starting to take responsibility. But this is a messy situation and I'm worried it could go out of control if Iran decides to get more involved.
 
santi319
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Eyad89 wrote:


Accusing Saudi of funding ISIS is pretty laughable, and here's why:

1) Saudi was hit a lot by ISIS. It's been hit more than UK, France, US, or all western countries combined. There has been MANY suicidal bombers inside of Saudi that killed Saudi cops and citizens.

2) Saudi has led many airstrikes against ISIS. One of them had the son of the saudi king flying an F-15C.


3) if you read comments made by ISIS followers on youtube/twitter or whatever, you could see how they dispise Saudi. Their objective is to take control of their Mecca and Medina and get rid of the Saudi royal family. I have read that many of them regard the Saudi family as non-muslims and consider them to be the head of the devil.

My point is that, there is no love story between the two. Question is, where is the evidence to support your claim that Saudi is funding ISIS?


Saudi might have been funding some jihadists in the past, especially during the time when Fahd was their king. That does not allow you to conclude that they are currently funding ISIS.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/12468758

You'll probably call it #fakenews . I am not surprised, most non Gulf Arabs know this...
 
KFlyer
Posts: 320
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:06 pm

Does anyone have confirmation whether A7- rec'd aircraft are allowed through Bahrain FIR? For any flying to happen, they must cross that and get to Iran.

Also,

A0812/17 NOTAMN
Q) OMAE/QXXXX/IV/NBO/E/000/999/2500N05430E999
A) OMAE B) 1706060000 C) PERM
E) ALL ACFT REGISTERED IN THE STATE OF QATAR ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO
OVERFLY EMIRATES FIR,DEPART OR LAND AT UAE AERODROMES.

OPERATORS NOT REGISTERED IN UAE INTENDING TO USE EMIRATES FIR FROM
OR TO THE STATE OF QATAR REQUIRE PRIOR APPROVAL FROM GCAA AVIATION
SECURITY AFFAIRS ON THE FLW CONTACT:
TEL: 00971 50 642 4911
EMAIL: AVSEC-DI(A)GCAA.GOV.AE
CREATED: 05 Jun 2017 08:37:00
SOURCE: OMAEYNYX
The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
 
SFOATLFlyer
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 9:51 pm

Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:15 pm

Floridaguy74656 wrote:
airtrantpa wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Of U.S. interest... the USN 5th Fleet, including a carrier strike group, and US CENTCOM, is based in Bahrain. So... no shortage of surveillance.


USCENTCOM is based at MacDill AFBin Tampa, FL


The Al Udeid Air Base southwest of Doha,Qatar has according to latest media reports roughly 10k US troops there. Gotta wonder whats going to happen with that.


Yep. It has the largest concentrations of U.S. troops in the ME.
 
edu2703
Posts: 160
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:20 pm

KFlyer wrote:
Does anyone have confirmation whether A7- rec'd aircraft are allowed through Bahrain FIR? For any flying to happen, they must cross that and get to Iran.


The only information so far:

A0206/17 - FOR FLIGHTS AFFECTED BY NOTAM A0204/17 THE FOLLOWING AWYS ARE
AVBL:
1-UT430 OUTBOUND VIA RAGAS
2-UR659 INBOUND VIA MIDSI. 06 JUN 00:00 2017 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 05 JUN 11:29
2017

A0205/17 - ALL FLT REGISTERED IN THE STATE OF QATAR ARE NOT AUTHORISED TO
OVERFLY BAHRAIN AIRSPACE. 06 JUN 00:00 2017 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 05 JUN 11:22
2017

A0204/17 - NO FLIGHT WILL BE ALLOWED FROM KINGDOM OF BAHRAIN TO STATE OF
QATAR AND FROM STATE OF QATAR TO KINGDOM OF BAHRAIN. 06 JUN 00:00 2017 UNTIL
PERM. CREATED: 05 JUN 11:17 2017

Any country has sovereignty over airspace above its territories. Bahrain can not block airspace over Qatar. If they do, they are declaring war.
Last edited by edu2703 on Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
lancelot07
Posts: 1084
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:25 pm

downdata wrote:
theSFOspotter wrote:
About time those countries did something about the others supporting the muslim brotherhood. Hopefully President Trump adds Qatar to the travel ban.


Yes the US will ban an ally which hosts 10000+ US troops. What's next? Travel ban to the U.K. or Japan?

these groups simply could take over the country.
It is not a democracy, anyway.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:28 pm

edu2703 wrote:
KFlyer wrote:
Does anyone have confirmation whether A7- rec'd aircraft are allowed through Bahrain FIR? For any flying to happen, they must cross that and get to Iran.


The only information so far:

A0206/17 - FOR FLIGHTS AFFECTED BY NOTAM A0204/17 THE FOLLOWING AWYS ARE
AVBL:
1-UT430 OUTBOUND VIA RAGAS
2-UR659 INBOUND VIA MIDSI. 06 JUN 00:00 2017 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 05 JUN 11:29
2017

A0205/17 - ALL FLT REGISTERED IN THE STATE OF QATAR ARE NOT AUTHORISED TO
OVERFLY BAHRAIN AIRSPACE. 06 JUN 00:00 2017 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 05 JUN 11:22
2017

A0204/17 - NO FLIGHT WILL BE ALLOWED FROM KINGDOM OF BAHRAIN TO STATE OF
QATAR AND FROM STATE OF QATAR TO KINGDOM OF BAHRAIN. 06 JUN 00:00 2017 UNTIL
PERM. CREATED: 05 JUN 11:17 2017

Any country has sovereignty over airspace above its territories. Bahrain can not block airspace over Qatar. If they do, they are declaring war.


Right, Bahrain airspace is not Bahrain FIR, so your last two sentences are on point IMO.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
SFOATLFlyer
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:32 pm

santi319 wrote:
So Saudi Arabia doesn't support ISIS? Laughable... as usual the Arab Gulf has to be the most hypocritical area of the world, even more than Israel..

They better fix this before the World Cup..


FIFA is saying "they are in touch with Qatari leadership and has no further comment at this time". It was never a smart choice by FIFA. This will be interesting.
 
berari
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:02 pm

Looking at this, QR's nonstop A320 flights to Africa and Middle East will greatly be affected. Aside from those to Middle East destinations that will not operate, flights to East Africa may require a one stop somewhere: Nairobi, Addis Ababa, Djibouti, Khartoum, Dar es Salaam, Kilimanjaro, Entebbe, Seychelles.

“Diverting around closed airspace means higher fuel costs and longer flight times,” said Mark Martin, head of Dubai-based Martin Consulting. “Destinations in Africa and across the Indian Ocean may no longer be sustainable as part of the Qatar Airways network.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -breakdown
Last edited by berari on Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:03 pm

That's gonna leave a mark for QR.
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln

Future Auburn graduate
 
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qf789
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:07 pm

Bloomberg reporting that QR could see a decline in revenue of up to 30%, some routes could be unsustainable particularly to Africa

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium=social
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QF744ER
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Could QR now transfer it's fleet onto a different country of registery to avoid these sanctions?

For example the Irish register - EI??
 
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qf789
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:12 pm

Irehdna wrote:
QR had relatively long flights from DOH to SYD/BNE/AKL. Would any of these be in economical range now they have to divert around UAE? This could be a big blow to QR's position on the Kangaroo Route.


QR doesn't fly to BNE, SYD and MEL would still be ok, AKL however maybe on the chopping block, was mentioned on the NZ thread a month or two ago that loads weren't great
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yowza
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:13 pm

QF744ER wrote:
Could QR now transfer it's fleet onto a different country of registery to avoid these sanctions?

For example the Irish register - EI??

In theory yes. In reality no. Any attempt to do so would likely be met with an additional restriction restricting "aircraft operating on behalf of" QR.

YOWza
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:27 pm

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
santi319 wrote:
So Saudi Arabia doesn't support ISIS? Laughable... as usual the Arab Gulf has to be the most hypocritical area of the world, even more than Israel..

They better fix this before the World Cup..


FIFA is saying "they are in touch with Qatari leadership and has no further comment at this time". It was never a smart choice by FIFA. This will be interesting.



It wasn't a choice as much as a business transiction. I.E. they did it for bribes/kickbacks and no other reasons.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:28 pm

Can still use Syrian and Iraqi space, atleast for Amman and Beirut, a few airlines do route via Iraq space to UAE, Qatar etc and MEA uses bot spaces too.
 
edu2703
Posts: 160
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:40 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
Can still use Syrian and Iraqi space, atleast for Amman and Beirut, a few airlines do route via Iraq space to UAE, Qatar etc and MEA uses bot spaces too.


Syria and Iraqi airspaces a very, very dangerous. After MH17, it's unlikely to see major airliners flying over them.
 
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yowza
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:41 pm

This is going to be hugely disruptive to QR. QR appears to avoid Iraqi and Syrian airspace except on flights to and from Iraq. When you factor in the Saudi and UAE restrictions there is a huge circumnavigation nightmare unfolding. For Africa ops alone they are going to have to something like the following:
Image

Of course, the damage doesn't end there. Destinations in the southern US, Latin America, South India, South East Asia, and Australasia will experience some pain too. For example QR714 (IAH-DOH) is currently over Saudi airspace. Such flights will also need augmenting.

YOWza
 
kaitak
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:41 pm

QF744ER wrote:
Could QR now transfer it's fleet onto a different country of registery to avoid these sanctions?

For example the Irish register - EI??


Oh yes, we really want to get involved in this kerfuffle!

One thing that struck me is that nationals of the countries involved must leave Qatar within 14 days ... this will affect QR too; I don't know about Saudi, Yemeni, UAE or Bahraini nationals but I think they have a fair number of Egyptians among their flight crew roster. How unfair and bitter for them! One's livelihood - lifelong dream, perhaps - extinguished at the stroke of a pen. Hopefully the situation can be resolved within that timeframe.
 
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OA260
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:47 pm

QF744ER wrote:
Could QR now transfer it's fleet onto a different country of registery to avoid these sanctions?

For example the Irish register - EI??


I dont think Ireland would allow them. It would be political suicide and open up the country to a backlash from the UAE etc...
 
Breathe
Posts: 557
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:04 pm

Theseus wrote:
Breathe wrote:
Although this is terrible news for staff and passengers at QR, I can imagine the execs in the boardrooms of EK and EY must be grinning ear to ear right now.


Not sure they should though.

A day ago, I would not have believed such a thing happening today. As a prospective passenger (and I flew a lot with QR), this of course reduces my confidence in QR. But, if the region looks less stable, then it also means I would be more likely to question the ME3 as a whole, and rather avoid booking through their hubs. Also, this is not too long after the ME3 get hit with the laptop cabin ban on flights to the US. I think such events can end up making the flying public less confident in not only QR, but also all ME airlines in the future. For business, political stability is always preferable.

Fair point.

I suppose the EU based airlines, as well as the likes of CX and SG in Asia, will be looking at taking advantage of the situation.
 
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Cyow
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:06 pm

QR's MIA flight will land in a few hours and they have gone via Iran, Armenia, Georgia, and Russia. That's the outbound. Tonight's return will be interesting.
"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"
 
N383PA
Posts: 80
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:10 pm

I wonder if food becomes a problem in Qatar, it might be that some folks in the Arizona/California desert will fire up a few stored 747 freighters ....
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:12 pm

kaitak wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
One thing that struck me is that nationals of the countries involved must leave Qatar within 14 days ... this will affect QR too; I don't know about Saudi, Yemeni, UAE or Bahraini nationals but I think they have a fair number of Egyptians among their flight crew roster. How unfair and bitter for them! One's livelihood - lifelong dream, perhaps - extinguished at the stroke of a pen. Hopefully the situation can be resolved within that timeframe.


In theory GCC citizens are allowed to live and work freely in all the countries in the council. The GCC resembles quite a lot the EU. For instance, passport controls are already divided in GCC / non-GCC like in the EU for EU and non-EU citizens. So this makes it every more complicated because until today a Saudi or Emirati working in Qatar was somehow like a German or a French working in the UK. Maybe we will see a Qatarexit after this :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Cooperation_Council

Internal market

A common market was launched on 1 January 2008 with plans to realise a fully integrated single market. It eased the movement of goods and services. However, implementation lagged behind after the 2009 financial crisis. The creation of a customs union began in 2003 and was completed and fully operational on 1 January 2015. In January 2015, the common market was also further integrated, allowing full equality among GCC citizens to work in the government and private sectors, social insurance and retirement coverage, real estate ownership, capital movement, access to education, health and other social services in all member states. However, some barriers remained in the free movement of goods and services. The coordination of taxation systems, accounting standards and civil legislation is currently in progress. The interoperability of professional qualifications, insurance certificates and identity documents is also underway.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:14 pm

Cyow wrote:
QR's MIA flight will land in a few hours and they have gone via Iran, Armenia, Georgia, and Russia. That's the outbound. Tonight's return will be interesting.

Does that mean that Turkey also closed its airspace to Qatari registered aircraft?
 
ly7e7
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
ty97 wrote:
This tweet (includes a map) talks about routes that will be available to QR in/out of Qatar after the airspace bans take effect.

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/ ... 1771894786


Considering this map, is the Israeli airspace really available?


I'm not aware that Israel allows overflight for any carrier period. Not 100% sure though.

Israel grants overflight rights on a reciprocal basis. One exception is flights that originate or end in a country that's does not grant overflight rights to Israel.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
dubaiamman243
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:25 pm

QR flights to Asia are still passing over the UAE airspace. Let's see how things will work tomorrow
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:26 pm

yowza wrote:
This is going to be hugely disruptive to QR. QR appears to avoid Iraqi and Syrian airspace except on flights to and from Iraq. When you factor in the Saudi and UAE restrictions there is a huge circumnavigation nightmare unfolding. For Africa ops alone they are going to have to something like the following:

Of course, the damage doesn't end there. Destinations in the southern US, Latin America, South India, South East Asia, and Australasia will experience some pain too. For example QR714 (IAH-DOH) is currently over Saudi airspace. Such flights will also need augmenting.

YOWza


Damn you beat me to it, lol. I typed up my own map... North African destinations seem to be the most problematic. Notably, it appears that TUN is recently scheduled to upgrade to A330-300 from A320.

Also, Somali airspace is verboten as well as it's considered moderate risk/no fly.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
rebr
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:35 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Also, Somali airspace is verboten as well as it's considered moderate risk/no fly.

Only for US carriers, QR EK and the likes still overfly Somalia... See QR1363 for example...
 
ikramerica
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:36 pm

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
santi319 wrote:
So Saudi Arabia doesn't support ISIS? Laughable... as usual the Arab Gulf has to be the most hypocritical area of the world, even more than Israel..

They better fix this before the World Cup..


FIFA is saying "they are in touch with Qatari leadership and has no further comment at this time". It was never a smart choice by FIFA. This will be interesting.

Qatar never should have gotten the WC. Their country does not qualify based on venues and size, and they were awarded it based on not having to change the time of year, and then after the fact were allowed to do so (graft anyone)? It would not be difficult to move it to an EU nation, other than some long lead time logistics. The problem is, will that be safe?

Let's move it to Canada...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Knightsofmalta
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:39 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I don't know why you are so focussed on the Strait, only so much of a countries imports and exports are transported on water.... Qatar is a tiny country that relies on everyone else for everything (I would know I have had work there on numerous occasions), they have absolutely no power in this situation, it would be wise for them to step down before Saudi Arabia brings the big boys into play (US, Japan, UK, China). QR flight plans are probably the least of their concerns right now!


Qatar has more power than you give them. KSA can't just shut the country down is my point. You can always find another supplier for necessities, inconvenience being time and cost. The "big boys" as you call them aren't going to get involved in a regional diplomatic squabble, besides encouraging them to play nice, unless these terror allegations are proven with hard evidence.


I wouldn't be so sure about that to be honest. Qatar is a very small market compared to KSA. You wouldn't want to antagonize the Saudis or you might end up loosing your access to the market. I'm assuming all this is somehow related to the coalition war in Yemen, which I know has the UAE left bleeding financially.
 
berari
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:49 pm

The severing of ties will undoubtedly wreak havoc to Qatar. Question is, is this punitive for what it was allegedly involved in, or is it measures taken as a result of negotiations that failed? Is Qatar now seen like Iran was at some point, as a country that harbours and supports terrorism?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:52 pm

yowza wrote:
This is going to be hugely disruptive to QR. QR appears to avoid Iraqi and Syrian airspace except on flights to and from Iraq. When you factor in the Saudi and UAE restrictions there is a huge circumnavigation nightmare unfolding. For Africa ops alone they are going to have to something like the following:
Image

Of course, the damage doesn't end there. Destinations in the southern US, Latin America, South India, South East Asia, and Australasia will experience some pain too. For example QR714 (IAH-DOH) is currently over Saudi airspace. Such flights will also need augmenting.

YOWza


Surprised you didn't include LOS and GRU on that map, they probably will be disturbed the most, with both cargo and passenger flights
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OA260
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:55 pm

Suspension of Flights to Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Kingdom of Bahrain

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Qatar Airways has suspended all flights to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia until further notice.

UAE

Qatar Airways has suspended all flights to the UAE from 00:00 UTC June 6th (03:00 Doha time, June 6th) until further notice.

Flights QR1020, QR1021, QR1054, QR1055, QR1034, QR1035, QR 1036, QR1037, QR1018, QR1019, QR1014 and QR1015 to and from the UAE on June 5th will operate as planned and remain unaffected.

Kingdom of Bahrain

Qatar Airways has suspended all flights to the Kingdom of Bahrain from 00:00 UTC June 6th (03:00 Doha time, June 6th) until further notice.

Flights QR1106, QR1107, QR1108 and QR1109 to and from the Kingdom of Bahrain on June 5th will operate as planned and remain unaffected.

Egypt

Qatar Airways has suspended all flights to Egypt from 04:00 UTC June 6th (07:00 Doha time, June 6th) until further notice.

Flights QR1302 and QR1318 from Egypt on June 5th will operate as planned and remain unaffected.

All customers booked on affected flights will be provided with alternative options, including the option of a full refund on any unused tickets and free rebooking to the nearest alternative Qatar Airways network destination.

Please check this page regularly for further flight updates.

For passengers with existing bookings, please call +974 4023 0072 or contact your nearest Qatar Airways office: https://www.qatarairways.com/en/contact-us.html

http://www.qatarairways.com/us/en/travel-alerts.page
 
directorguy
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:01 pm

Very interesting developments.
There are 170,000-200,000 Egyptians living in Qatar. Many of them are in well-paid jobs and are an important source of remittance for Egypt. While nothing official has been said, if Qatar was to suddenly "kick out" Egyptians, it would be catastrophic. Egypt simply cannot absorb all these people, and neither can other Gulf states. The Qatari economy would be hit if they decided to make a significant part of the workforce redundant overnight.
The UAE is imposing a travel ban on all Qataris. Yesterday they had the right to live in the UAE, and today they cannot even transit. There is so much movement between the Gulf states, that it is impossible to maintain a man. What about students? Families whose members hold different nationalities? This isn't Brexit, where the UK withdrawing is well publicized and phased out, and people already in the UK will most probably given residence permits. Imagine if tomorrow Germany and France decided to sever ties with the Netherlands, suspend flights, and tell Dutch nationals to leave. The rights of EU nationals are enshrined in various treaties and legislation, and so cannot easily overturned, whereas the GCC can revoke freedom of movement at a moment's notice. Just shows how weak the foundations of the GCC are in comparison.
Assuming this ban/severance of ties goes on for a few weeks or a few months, airlines like Middle East Airlines, Royal Jordanian and Oman Air will be well-positioned to pick up the slack.
 
Whalejet
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:02 pm

For those confused about the politics behind it (Yes, its my foreign policy blog, but its a thorough explanation IMO):
http://paxamericanaweb.blogspot.com/201 ... rophe.html
 
SFOATLFlyer
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:02 pm

ikramerica wrote:
SFOATLFlyer wrote:
santi319 wrote:
So Saudi Arabia doesn't support ISIS? Laughable... as usual the Arab Gulf has to be the most hypocritical area of the world, even more than Israel..

They better fix this before the World Cup..


FIFA is saying "they are in touch with Qatari leadership and has no further comment at this time". It was never a smart choice by FIFA. This will be interesting.

Qatar never should have gotten the WC. Their country does not qualify based on venues and size, and they were awarded it based on not having to change the time of year, and then after the fact were allowed to do so (graft anyone)? It would not be difficult to move it to an EU nation, other than some long lead time logistics. The problem is, will that be safe?

Let's move it to Canada...


Safe, who knows? It's still 5 years away. I have suspicion the 2018 in Russia is going to be a political football, but that's another thread.
 
c933103
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:34 pm

yowza wrote:
This is going to be hugely disruptive to QR. QR appears to avoid Iraqi and Syrian airspace except on flights to and from Iraq. When you factor in the Saudi and UAE restrictions there is a huge circumnavigation nightmare unfolding. For Africa ops alone they are going to have to something like the following:
Image

Of course, the damage doesn't end there. Destinations in the southern US, Latin America, South India, South East Asia, and Australasia will experience some pain too. For example QR714 (IAH-DOH) is currently over Saudi airspace. Such flights will also need augmenting.

YOWza

Weren't past flights to IAH utillize Turkish airspace?
And for Africa it is really just CMN/TUN/ALG/LOS/ADD/JIB/KRT that would be affected much, others flown via Oman before the incident anyway.
Not sure what you are pointing to when you said flights to South India and SE Asia would be affected...
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Midwestindy
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:41 pm

c933103 wrote:
yowza wrote:
This is going to be hugely disruptive to QR. QR appears to avoid Iraqi and Syrian airspace except on flights to and from Iraq. When you factor in the Saudi and UAE restrictions there is a huge circumnavigation nightmare unfolding. For Africa ops alone they are going to have to something like the following:
Image

Of course, the damage doesn't end there. Destinations in the southern US, Latin America, South India, South East Asia, and Australasia will experience some pain too. For example QR714 (IAH-DOH) is currently over Saudi airspace. Such flights will also need augmenting.

YOWza

Weren't past flights to IAH utillize Turkish airspace?
And for Africa it is really just CMN/TUN/ALG/LOS/ADD/JIB/KRT that would be affected much, others flown via Oman before the incident anyway.
Not sure what you are pointing to when you said flights to South India and SE Asia would be affected...


I think they are referring to the fact that the Maldives has also closed its airspace to QR, however that shouldn't affect flights around SE Asia as much, other than the flights directly to MLE
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factsonly
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:48 pm

05/06/17 - Qatar Airways Flight Cancellations.


The following Qatar Airways flights did not operate today:

QR243 Doha – Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen
QR244 Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Doha
QR247 Doha – Baku
QR248 Baku – Doha
QR1150 Doha – Dammam
QR1151 Dammam – Doha
QR1164 Doha – Riyadh
QR1165 Riyadh – Doha
QR1168 Doha – Riyadh
QR1169 Riyadh – Doha
QR1176 Doha – Medinah
QR1177 Medina – Doha
QR1178 Doha – Medinah
QR1179 Medinah – Doha
QR1186 Doha – Jeddah
QR1187 Jeddah – Doha
QR1188 Doha – Jeddah
QR1189 Jeddah – Doha
QR1190 Doha – Jeddah
QR1191 Jeddah – Doha
QR1196 Doha – Al Gassim
QR1197 Al Gassim – Doha
QR1212 Doha – Abha
QR1213 Abha – Doha
QR1236 Doha – Riyadh
QR1237 Riyadh – Doha.
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:53 pm

The biggest risk to the ME3 in my view has always been the region's uncanny habit of imploding.
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:55 pm

LLA001 wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
czek6 wrote:
So what does this mean for FedEx, UPS, and other air freight services? Doesn't Qatar get a lot of food flown in on freighters? I guess they'll run out of fresh fish like tuna in just a few days time.

Hopefully Icelandair's 757s will fly to the rescue!


I am looking at FlightRadar to see if there is an increase at cargo flights to Qatar but just found regular airliner traffic. I guess we will see that increase in the next few days?


there are Iranian terror groups I.E Hezbollah and Hamas

i am not taking side because both of them are worse but i mean let's be honest here
 
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adambrau
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:56 pm

This is going to hurt the ME3 probably equally. These developments will scare off Americans and probably even Europeans from making a connection at any ME airports on EK/EY/QR, just to get great service at a bargain price. And how will it affect tourism to Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha? People will wonder why did this happen and start to ask questions. Even for those expats living in the GCC countries this adds to the instability of the region in general. What a poor lack of foresight by KSA/GCC members to not settle this behind closed doors, although it seems not the first time this has happened. Best of luck to all caught up in this matter.
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Theseus
Posts: 254
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:00 pm

Ryanair01 wrote:
The biggest risk to the ME3 in my view has always been the region's uncanny habit of imploding.


I agree. Qatar and UAE have looked stable for decades, so that many people would not mind flying with EK, QR or EY. But if this perception changes, the consequence can last and impact things durably. A reputation of stability is long to earn, but could be quickly lost. We are not there yet, but this quick and dramatic change is worrisome.
 
c933103
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:04 pm

factsonly wrote:
05/06/17 - Qatar Airways Flight Cancellations.


The following Qatar Airways flights did not operate today:

QR243 Doha – Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen
QR244 Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Doha
QR247 Doha – Baku
QR248 Baku – Doha
QR1150 Doha – Dammam
QR1151 Dammam – Doha
QR1164 Doha – Riyadh
QR1165 Riyadh – Doha
QR1168 Doha – Riyadh
QR1169 Riyadh – Doha
QR1176 Doha – Medinah
QR1177 Medina – Doha
QR1178 Doha – Medinah
QR1179 Medinah – Doha
QR1186 Doha – Jeddah
QR1187 Jeddah – Doha
QR1188 Doha – Jeddah
QR1189 Jeddah – Doha
QR1190 Doha – Jeddah
QR1191 Jeddah – Doha
QR1196 Doha – Al Gassim
QR1197 Al Gassim – Doha
QR1212 Doha – Abha
QR1213 Abha – Doha
QR1236 Doha – Riyadh
QR1237 Riyadh – Doha.

baku and istanbul - I assume they're just "normal" flight cancellations?

OGLOBAL wrote:
LLA001 wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
Hopefully Icelandair's 757s will fly to the rescue!


I am looking at FlightRadar to see if there is an increase at cargo flights to Qatar but just found regular airliner traffic. I guess we will see that increase in the next few days?


there are Iranian terror groups I.E Hezbollah and Hamas

i am not taking side because both of them are worse but i mean let's be honest here

yea they are supporting Israel and Hamas together at the same time
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smithbs
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:07 pm

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
Floridaguy74656 wrote:
airtrantpa wrote:

USCENTCOM is based at MacDill AFBin Tampa, FL


The Al Udeid Air Base southwest of Doha,Qatar has according to latest media reports roughly 10k US troops there. Gotta wonder whats going to happen with that.


Yep. It has the largest concentrations of U.S. troops in the ME.

The presence of AUAB makes this huge awkward issue even more awkward, or maybe not. Coalition (US and others) and contractor flights in/out of AUAB might not be impacted (I doubt there is any change there), but Qatar Air Force is also present there. Does this mean their shiny beautiful C-17s stay parked?
 
sadiqutp
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:09 pm

OGLOBAL wrote:
here are Iranian terror groups I.E Hezbollah and Hamas

i am not taking side because both of them are worse but i mean let's be honest here


I always cringe when some people throw names and assumptions that are massively inaccurate without any knowledge or background.
Hezbollahis a militant in South Lebanon, and Hamas is militant in Gaza Strip. They do NOT exist in Qatar in any shape or form.
Does Qatar support them? Depends on who you ask
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Wow...
Watching this develop is amazing.
This is a trade war on quite a scale. I'd imagine supermarket shelves will go bare in Doha.

This strikes me as a play to reign in support of Iran.

I'm curious as to how much feed to India is impacted.

I need popcorn!

Lightsaber
PS, late edit:
Nevermind, food rush in Doha:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... neighbors/
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edu2703
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Re: Breaking: Bahrain, Egypt and KSA closed their airspace for Qatar

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:21 pm

Image

São Paulo-Doha, with restrictions, will have a distance between 13,600-14,000 km (8,500-8,700 mi). The maximum range of Boeing 777-200LR (with 317 passengers) is 15,840 km (9,845 mi)
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