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KarelXWB
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Embraer pitches E195-E2 at JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:19 pm

Embraer explains why they believe the E195-E2 is the prefect solution for JetBlue:

Embraer sees its next generation E195-E2 as the "solution" to JetBlue Airways' concerns with the E190, says Embraer Commercial Aircraft chief John Slattery.

...

"They're operating the A320, and increasingly the [Airbus] A321, and the 100-seater may be a little on the small side for them," says Slattery. "I have a solution for that: the E195-E2."


Article
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ue-437880/

Would JetBlue feel the same?
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ericm2031
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:23 pm

If they did do this, I could see them maybe only replacing a portion of the fleet and phasing out the rest. The maintenance costs have been very high on these.

And the fact they're comparing the break even point on the NYC-FLL route, a route that does not use these and can easily fill an A320 doesn't really make much sense.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:37 pm

If it weren't for the RJ pilot shortage, I would still think B6 could go the route of RJ operations with Republic or SkyWest operating some E175s for them.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
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jbs2886
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:39 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
If they did do this, I could see them maybe only replacing a portion of the fleet and phasing out the rest. The maintenance costs have been very high on these.

And the fact they're comparing the break even point on the NYC-FLL route, a route that does not use these and can easily fill an A320 doesn't really make much sense.


I think this actually stands a chance because JetBlue has 24 or so outstanding orders for E190s. Certainly Embraer would allow these orders to be converted to avoid cancellations.
 
flyby519
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:45 pm

I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:05 pm

flyby519 wrote:
I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.


Agreed. Personally, I think the E2 would be a great choice for B6. PW engines for both the E2 and NEOs.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
lostsound
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:07 pm

flyby519 wrote:
I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.


This will be tough for B6 because they've publicly shown interest in the CSeries and publicly criticized their current E190 fleet. If they go Bombardier, Embraer might take extra measures in their accusations that the CSeries is undercutting their business because of unfair pricing. In addition, Boeing may use this as another example of Bombardier's cost cutting, interfering with the potential B6 order. However I personally believe the CS100 and/or CS300 really fits B6's network better in terms of range, capacity, and customer experience. Maybe we'll see what happens in Paris. B6 must be coming to a conclusion soon, they've been reviewing their E190s for like 2 years now.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:41 pm

lostsound wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.


This will be tough for B6 because they've publicly shown interest in the CSeries and publicly criticized their current E190 fleet. If they go Bombardier, Embraer might take extra measures in their accusations that the CSeries is undercutting their business because of unfair pricing. In addition, Boeing may use this as another example of Bombardier's cost cutting, interfering with the potential B6 order. However I personally believe the CS100 and/or CS300 really fits B6's network better in terms of range, capacity, and customer experience. Maybe we'll see what happens in Paris. B6 must be coming to a conclusion soon, they've been reviewing their E190s for like 2 years now.

WADR, this is probably the best spot B6 has been in for fleet planning. They have shown interest in the CSeries, and Embraer would have a stroke were they to lose their largest North American customer. This is only going to drive prices lower and, IMO, Embraer has the edge because B6 already has a ton of 190s flying around. What a time to be a Jet Blue fleet planner.
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dc10lover
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:48 pm

I bet 100% they will deny the offer. They still have nightmares from the EMB190. So don't look for any orders to the E2.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:50 pm

b6 is trying to bring the fleet back to a single type A320/321.
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:54 pm

lostsound wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.


This will be tough for B6 because they've publicly shown interest in the CSeries and publicly criticized their current E190 fleet. If they go Bombardier, Embraer might take extra measures in their accusations that the CSeries is undercutting their business because of unfair pricing. In addition, Boeing may use this as another example of Bombardier's cost cutting, interfering with the potential B6 order. However I personally believe the CS100 and/or CS300 really fits B6's network better in terms of range, capacity, and customer experience. Maybe we'll see what happens in Paris. B6 must be coming to a conclusion soon, they've been reviewing their E190s for like 2 years now.


Considering the costumer experience it is true that the CS100 offers the unique pleasure of leaving up to 20% of customers in the middle seat ...
 
flyby519
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:42 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
b6 is trying to bring the fleet back to a single type A320/321.


Wow, that'd be a huge blow to BBD and Embraer
 
jbs2886
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:46 pm

flyby519 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
b6 is trying to bring the fleet back to a single type A320/321.


Wow, that'd be a huge blow to BBD and Embraer


I'm not sure there is any support for that statement. If so, please provide a source.
 
lostsound
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Nean1 wrote:
lostsound wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.


This will be tough for B6 because they've publicly shown interest in the CSeries and publicly criticized their current E190 fleet. If they go Bombardier, Embraer might take extra measures in their accusations that the CSeries is undercutting their business because of unfair pricing. In addition, Boeing may use this as another example of Bombardier's cost cutting, interfering with the potential B6 order. However I personally believe the CS100 and/or CS300 really fits B6's network better in terms of range, capacity, and customer experience. Maybe we'll see what happens in Paris. B6 must be coming to a conclusion soon, they've been reviewing their E190s for like 2 years now.


Considering the costumer experience it is true that the CS100 offers the unique pleasure of leaving up to 20% of customers in the middle seat ...


Their A320 fleet is all 3-3 and it's their main aircraft, this streamlines that experience. In addition, people travel in 3s and 5s, not only 1s and 2s so in my opinion it offers better travel flexibility. Finally, when shopping price customers don't care if they are in the middle seat and the CSeries offers a wider middle seat than competitors. What else you've got?
 
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:47 pm

lostsound wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
lostsound wrote:

This will be tough for B6 because they've publicly shown interest in the CSeries and publicly criticized their current E190 fleet. If they go Bombardier, Embraer might take extra measures in their accusations that the CSeries is undercutting their business because of unfair pricing. In addition, Boeing may use this as another example of Bombardier's cost cutting, interfering with the potential B6 order. However I personally believe the CS100 and/or CS300 really fits B6's network better in terms of range, capacity, and customer experience. Maybe we'll see what happens in Paris. B6 must be coming to a conclusion soon, they've been reviewing their E190s for like 2 years now.


Considering the costumer experience it is true that the CS100 offers the unique pleasure of leaving up to 20% of customers in the middle seat ...


Their A320 fleet is all 3-3 and it's their main aircraft, this streamlines that experience. In addition, people travel in 3s and 5s, not only 1s and 2s so in my opinion it offers better travel flexibility. Finally, when shopping price customers don't care if they are in the middle seat and the CSeries offers a wider middle seat than competitors. What else you've got?

A family of 4 is the most common group size I have seen in my time as a gate agent. My airline usually flew a 3-3-3 777 into IAH but switched to a 2-4-2 A340 for a bit while the 777 was being retrofitted and we found it much easier to accommodate families and couples with the 2-4-2 layout. Laslty, BBD can offer any option they want as far as seating is concerned, but how many airlines actually take the wider middle seat as an option?
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:02 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
b6 is trying to bring the fleet back to a single type A320/321.


Wow, that'd be a huge blow to BBD and Embraer


I'm not sure there is any support for that statement. If so, please provide a source.


The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:

Wow, that'd be a huge blow to BBD and Embraer


I'm not sure there is any support for that statement. If so, please provide a source.


The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.


So that is your speculation, then?
 
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:09 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

I'm not sure there is any support for that statement. If so, please provide a source.


The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.


So that is your speculation, then?


The fleet review about cutting costs is not speculation. It's largely a paper exercise to justify the e190 demise on paper. Some details were in the last 10q
 
lostsound
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:22 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
lostsound wrote:
Nean1 wrote:

Considering the costumer experience it is true that the CS100 offers the unique pleasure of leaving up to 20% of customers in the middle seat ...


Their A320 fleet is all 3-3 and it's their main aircraft, this streamlines that experience. In addition, people travel in 3s and 5s, not only 1s and 2s so in my opinion it offers better travel flexibility. Finally, when shopping price customers don't care if they are in the middle seat and the CSeries offers a wider middle seat than competitors. What else you've got?

A family of 4 is the most common group size I have seen in my time as a gate agent. My airline usually flew a 3-3-3 777 into IAH but switched to a 2-4-2 A340 for a bit while the 777 was being retrofitted and we found it much easier to accommodate families and couples with the 2-4-2 layout. Laslty, BBD can offer any option they want as far as seating is concerned, but how many airlines actually take the wider middle seat as an option?


The 2 side of seats will suit anally tight-knit family of 4 just fine. As a member of a typical family of four, I can vouch from the 737/A320 experience that it's really no inconvenience to adjust to the seating layout of the aircraft. B6 allows seat selection, should be easy to manage. And so far both Swiss and Air Baltic have taken the wider middle seat, so far so good.
 
tphuang
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:38 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:

Wow, that'd be a huge blow to BBD and Embraer


I'm not sure there is any support for that statement. If so, please provide a source.


The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.


Wait can they fly a320 out of hpn? I thought there is a seat restriction.

I guess they can get a bunch of used a319 to replace e90s.
 
FARmd90
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:56 pm

tphuang wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

I'm not sure there is any support for that statement. If so, please provide a source.


The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.


Wait can they fly a320 out of hpn? I thought there is a seat restriction.

I guess they can get a bunch of used a319 to replace e90s.


Yes they can fly and do the fly the 320 into HPN mainly during the summer months. The seat restriction is per hour and not specified to aircraft type. They however can't fly the 320 into ACK and MVY. Does anyone know if the C-series or 195 E2 can operate from those airport? Otherwise B6 will have to leave those markets.
 
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deltadawg
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:41 am

FARmd90 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.


Wait can they fly a320 out of hpn? I thought there is a seat restriction.

I guess they can get a bunch of used a319 to replace e90s.


Yes they can fly and do the fly the 320 into HPN mainly during the summer months. The seat restriction is per hour and not specified to aircraft type. They however can't fly the 320 into ACK and MVY. Does anyone know if the C-series or 195 E2 can operate from those airport? Otherwise B6 will have to leave those markets.


The runway at ACK is listed as 6303 feet, MVY is listed as 5504 so the CS100 would be fine since it has been performing seemingly successful TATL tests out of LCY which is 4948. The 195-E2 states 6463 take off length. Perhaps they will choose the CSeries just for the short runway performances along with the superior range and economics. Would love to see the CSeries in B6 colors!
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
ericm2031
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:32 am

Does B6 have the same pilot scope clauses as the legacies that would stop them from possibly outsourcing E190 flying? I know the regionals don't have spare pilots, but was just curious. It would definitely give whatever regional could do it an added benefit of having a higher top out pay scale.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:30 am

flyby519 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
b6 is trying to bring the fleet back to a single type A320/321.


Wow, that'd be a huge blow to BBD and Embraer

Wouldn't then the A319neo be more of a fit than the C Series or Embraer if they wanted a single type?
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:02 am

I don't know...but why is everyone else so happy about their E-Jets and B6 is invariably moaning about them??...
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:05 am

dc10lover wrote:
I bet 100% they will deny the offer. They still have nightmares from the EMB190. So don't look for any orders to the E2.


Facts, please.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:09 am

Varsity1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

The current fleet review is all about cutting unit costs. Having multiple pilot groups, reserves, spares, scheduling substitution issues drives up costs. They will end up an A32X airline.


So that is your speculation, then?


The fleet review about cutting costs is not speculation. It's largely a paper exercise to justify the e190 demise on paper. Some details were in the last 10q


That wasn't quite the question. Did the 10-Q say anything about reducing fleet types as a way to reduce cost, or was eliminating the E-190 your own interpretation of how they're pursuing cost reduction?

Embraer is trying to plant a thought with their RASM vs CASM claims effectively that Jetblue would have to eliminate a lot of routes or reduce frequencies to do what you claim. Keep in mind you don't reduce overall costs by up-gauging from an E-190 to an A320. Rather, you increase overall costs. You decrease CASM, but CASM is misleading if your load factors are poor.

I only have time to skim the 10-Q right now, but I'm not seeing it. It actually seems like there is more discussion about increasing RASM than decreasing CASM, which supports what Embraer is saying. Also, the 10-Q says that they renegotiated their A320 deliveries, effective as of April:

Accelerate 3 x A321 by 1 year.
Delay 13 x A321 NEO x 4 to 5 years.

Delaying A321's doesn't seem to jive well with getting rid of E-190's, unless their market outlook is very negative.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:10 am

oldannyboy wrote:
I don't know...but why is everyone else so happy about their E-Jets and B6 is invariably moaning about them??...


My understanding is Jetblue had a bunch of early service issues and publicly complained about them. I'm sure you can still look up the old threads.

I'm not aware that those issues are still relevant.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:34 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I don't know...but why is everyone else so happy about their E-Jets and B6 is invariably moaning about them??...


My understanding is Jetblue had a bunch of early service issues and publicly complained about them. I'm sure you can still look up the old threads.

I'm not aware that those issues are still relevant.


Indeed, but my understanding is in fact that they mostly had 'teething problems' with -as you say- early service issues. But now??
Also, they seem to complain vociferously about dispatch reliability, expensive maintenance and casm issues vis a vis the A320...
Rest of the world seems pretty happy about the bird, including big, "proverbially difficult" customers.... Maybe they just picked on the wrong aircraft for their fleet/business model??
Maybe they should really standardize around the A320/321, forget about the thinner routes, and stop complaining???

Seems to me a bit like the guy who buys a small Kia for city driving alongside his big Volvo, and then complains that the Kia is small and ride quality is poor....
 
Softaero
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:53 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Accelerate 3 x A321 by 1 year.
Delay 13 x A321 NEO x 4 to 5 years.

Delaying A321's doesn't seem to jive well with getting rid of E-190's, unless their market outlook is very negative.

Considering NEO engine production delays, this may likely be Airbus offering to provide a discount if B6 were willing to defer their NEO deliveries to free up production slots to airlines who need them more. Why else would they accelerate A321 deliveries at the same time?
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly
 
flyby519
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:15 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Does B6 have the same pilot scope clauses as the legacies that would stop them from possibly outsourcing E190 flying? I know the regionals don't have spare pilots, but was just curious. It would definitely give whatever regional could do it an added benefit of having a higher top out pay scale.


B6 is in the middle of contract negotiations with the pilots. Scope is a very hot button issue for all pilots, and I can't see any way that they would allow E190s to be outsourced.
 
jetbluefan1
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:30 pm

I was at BOS yesterday for 5+ hours (flew CDG-BOS-LGA on AA), and I didn't really understand the extent to which the E190 acts as the backbone to B6's operation until now. I would say over 2/3 of active B6 planes I saw were E190's. It's hard to see how B6 would get rid of its 100-seat aircraft - at least without a comparable replacement - when BOS is its highest margin focus city. Hard to see how a high frequency business market like BOS-DCA would be profitable with 162-seat A320's flying half full all day.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:20 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

So that is your speculation, then?


The fleet review about cutting costs is not speculation. It's largely a paper exercise to justify the e190 demise on paper. Some details were in the last 10q


That wasn't quite the question. Did the 10-Q say anything about reducing fleet types as a way to reduce cost, or was eliminating the E-190 your own interpretation of how they're pursuing cost reduction?

Embraer is trying to plant a thought with their RASM vs CASM claims effectively that Jetblue would have to eliminate a lot of routes or reduce frequencies to do what you claim. Keep in mind you don't reduce overall costs by up-gauging from an E-190 to an A320. Rather, you increase overall costs. You decrease CASM, but CASM is misleading if your load factors are poor.

I only have time to skim the 10-Q right now, but I'm not seeing it. It actually seems like there is more discussion about increasing RASM than decreasing CASM, which supports what Embraer is saying. Also, the 10-Q says that they renegotiated their A320 deliveries, effective as of April:

Accelerate 3 x A321 by 1 year.
Delay 13 x A321 NEO x 4 to 5 years.

Delaying A321's doesn't seem to jive well with getting rid of E-190's, unless their market outlook is very negative.


It doesn't say that at all - which is why I asked him for support. He is using those statements to assume that means getting rid of E190s - which could be the case - but it is not a fact now.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:26 pm

I don't see B6 moving to just the A320/A321, there are a bunch of markets & airports that need an aircraft the size of something around the E190. I don't know what BBD is planning on doing but Embraer is going to try to keep B6 as a customer as much as they possibly can. Whether B6 bites is another story.
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
MD82/MD83/MD88/MD90 Q100/Q400
 
gsg013
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:31 pm

Would B6 consider the Bombardier CS Series?
 
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deltadawg
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:52 pm

gsg013 wrote:
Would B6 consider the Bombardier CS Series?


Why wouldn't they?

IF, the rumors are true that B6 has been unhappy with E190 performances or at least unhappy with initial reliability and performances then what other choices do they have?

CSeries - slightly larger but seemingly smooth EIS thus far with BT and LX and seemingly excellent economics and also is proving to fly out of short runways such as LCY. Personally, I believe
the CSeries would give them the most flexibility with additional range, payload and economics. Would love to see a B6 CS100/300!

MRJ - similar in size to E2's but far behind schedule and unproven reliability and still no EIS for several more years.

SJ100 - similar in size but unfamiliar support from Sukhoi for Western airlines. However, 4O seems to like them and I have flown them from MEX-ZCL twice and they were great. However,
Russian jets in Western airlines still isn't a widely accepted policy for whatever reason.

E2's - better the devil you know than the devil you don't? They know pretty much what they would get and how to deal with the upsets if any - balls in Embraer's court I believe and their order to
win or lose!
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
FARmd90
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:51 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/airwayslive/ ... 2189670404

Looks like embaer had boosted the range of the 190/195 E2 and a thread was just opened on this viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1365137

I say that this might be another "tick" in the box for B6 to consider the 195, as with this range boost it (at least I think, correct me if I'm wrong) now has the range to handle cross country flights comfortably if B6 so chooses.
 
Dash9
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:18 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
I don't know...but why is everyone else so happy about their E-Jets and B6 is invariably moaning about them??...


The other north american launch customer is Air Canada which is ditching its E190 fleet in favor of CS300. I wouldn't say everyone else is happy about the E190.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:46 pm

Why would B6 go for the 195 at 130ish seats instead of stick with the 190 at 100? May as well keep some of the 320's at 150 seats if they want a 130ish seater and skip the trouble.

Keeping the 190 will allow for the most fleet versatility at 100, 162 and 200 seats. Very nice spread. Slightly less labor costs with only needing 2 FAs on the 190 as opposed to 3 on the 195.
 
FARmd90
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:51 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
CobaltScar wrote:
Why would B6 go for the 195 at 130ish seats instead of stick with the 190 at 100? May as well keep some of the 320's at 150 seats if they want a 130ish seater and skip the trouble.

Keeping the 190 will allow for the most fleet versatility at 100, 162 and 200 seats. Very nice spread. Slightly less labor costs with only needing 2 FAs on the 190 as opposed to 3 on the 195.


I think one reason why B6 would look into larger planes to replace the 190 yet stay below the 320 is because at a lot of the airports B6 goes to they are gate limited with what they can do or they are slot limited. Only way to grow would be get larger planes.
 
xdlx
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:05 pm

I flew yesterday 8/19/17 on a E190, with a INOP APU out of BOS. We did a ENG start at the gate and departed for a flawless 2.5h flight, with 96pax.
The return flight from FL to BOS appeared 3/4 full at minimum as we disembarked. If the other metrics on the airplane are working out
CASM, RASM, and the only issue was with the first batch of 20, MTC Reliability and runaway cost is a NEGOTIABLE variable. B6 has a GREAT POSITION to bargain with EMBRAER for a Power by the Hour program if the GE engine was the culprit of their claims. Embraer would not want to loose B6 on this deal, and B6 said they did not want to participate in another launch program. Embraer could offer slots in the line for the E2 from LN020 and beyond....to B6.
And Scope issues would be a lot easier to adjust with present fleet than introducing another type other than A318/19
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:40 pm

Adding the E195-E2 to replace the E190s and older A320s wouldn't be a bad move. Training of pilots and FAs would be nothing, the engine is common with the incoming A320neo and A321neos, and the operation costs of the E195-E2 are probably going to be stellar.

B6 has outstanding orders for the E190. Perhaps Embraer will bargain a deal. Losing B6 would be a blow.
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F9Animal
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:25 am

As a passenger, I love the 190. However, I see a few mentioned that B6 was kicking the C Series tires? I haven't flown on it yet, but I have heard it's a great plane. Whatever happens, I am pretty sure B6 likes the flexibility of its fleet. I think the C Series would be a more attractive plane due to its performance and long range. Should be interesting to say the least.
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Waterbomber
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:21 am

I think that pricing is a major issue and why Embraer would have to pitch the E195 II instead of the E190 II.
The PW1000G engines are more expensive than the CF34, leaving less margin for Embaer to discount their aircraft.
When the engines are almost the same price between a E2 and a CSeries, you start comparing the value that you get on the airframe, systems and after-sales.

B6 could order a smaller amount of either of the E2 or Cseries at this point, I would give it a 40/60 chance and it would come down to pricing and guarantees.
In any case, both manufacturers will have to dig deep into their margins to gain B6's business and it will probably be a much smaller order than their previous E190 order.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:14 am

I wonder how Mint would work on some 195E2s, or a kind of Mint-light?
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Jomar777
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:44 am

Dash9 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I don't know...but why is everyone else so happy about their E-Jets and B6 is invariably moaning about them??...


The other north american launch customer is Air Canada which is ditching its E190 fleet in favor of CS300. I wouldn't say everyone else is happy about the E190.




There was a thread no long ago stating that Air Canada actually received some sort of incentive or something like to actually order than BBDs so I do not think they did ditch their E190s due to performance.
B6 had issues with the earlier versions but you do not see them complaining now.
Regardless of the E2's performance, I have not seen a single order for BBD for the CS's apart from what they already got from DL (an inherited order), LX and BT. Some conversions but a very quite Airshow for them in Paris. Until another proper order comes about from elsewhere, I am not sure it is a feasible project despite whatever can be said in regards to customer satisfaction and flight experience.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:31 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I wonder how Mint would work on some 195E2s, or a kind of Mint-light?


That actually isn't a bad idea! Especially since Embraer offers a First/Business Class cabin design like this:

Image
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lightsaber
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:30 am

TWA772LR wrote:
lostsound wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
I'll bet Embraer is willing to give the E2 to B6 for a much lower price than BBD can discount the CSeries. This will be interesting. If Embraer can't convince their 2nd largest E190 operator to buy the E2 then that will look very bad.


This will be tough for B6 because they've publicly shown interest in the CSeries and publicly criticized their current E190 fleet. If they go Bombardier, Embraer might take extra measures in their accusations that the CSeries is undercutting their business because of unfair pricing. In addition, Boeing may use this as another example of Bombardier's cost cutting, interfering with the potential B6 order. However I personally believe the CS100 and/or CS300 really fits B6's network better in terms of range, capacity, and customer experience. Maybe we'll see what happens in Paris. B6 must be coming to a conclusion soon, they've been reviewing their E190s for like 2 years now.

WADR, this is probably the best spot B6 has been in for fleet planning. They have shown interest in the CSeries, and Embraer would have a stroke were they to lose their largest North American customer. This is only going to drive prices lower and, IMO, Embraer has the edge because B6 already has a ton of 190s flying around. What a time to be a Jet Blue fleet planner.

Both Embraer and Bombardier are hungry for a North American customer. Discount offers to JetBlue are certain. Holding off for a better offer is a wise strategy.

JetBlue should make more noise about going all Airbus before seriously negotiating.

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catiii
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:12 am

Varsity1 wrote:
b6 is trying to bring the fleet back to a single type A320/321.


Patently false.
 
catiii
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Re: Embraer pitches E195-E2 for JetBlue

Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:14 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I wonder how Mint would work on some 195E2s, or a kind of Mint-light?


It wouldn't...

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