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dcajet
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List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:21 am

The following are the routes requested by Norwegian de Argentina S.A. for its planned operations in that country. The requests are being reviewed by the local authorities and an answer is expected by next month.

Domestic

34 from AEP
17 from COR
5 from MDZ
4 from BRC
3 from CRD
3 from FTE
2 from IGU
2 from MDQ
2 from SLA
2 from AFA
1 from JUJ
1 from ROS
1 from RSA
1 from REL

International

From Buenos Aires EZE

SCL
Various in Brazil (not itemized on info available)
MVD
MAD
BCN
FCO
CDG/ORY
LGW
JFK
LAX
FLL
AGP
CPH
TLV
PTP
CPT
PPT
SJO

From Cordoba COR

FDF
PTP
HAV

From Mendoza MDZ

GRU
SCL

From Rosario ROS

FLL


More info about other paper airlines taking shape in Argentina here: http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201705/19 ... rutas.html
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DY789
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 am

Thats an ambitious project? Papeete and Tel Aviv?

Wonder just how many 787's they plan to base there, and it seems like EZE will comfortably overtake LGW as their main long haul operation!
 
ahj2000
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:49 am

Damn. Do they want to dethrone Aerolíneas Argentinas?
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TWA772LR
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:49 am

DY789 wrote:
Thats an ambitious project? Papeete and Tel Aviv?

Wonder just how many 787's they plan to base there, and it seems like EZE will comfortably overtake LGW as their main long haul operation!

There has to be lower hanging fruit for Norwegian than trying to connect the US and Argentina.

Argentina must be going through a tremendous explosion on middle class growth to be applying for routes like TLV, PPT, CPT, COR-FLL and others. I doubt that is really the case.

I hope it works out for them, but Im starting to believe they are growing too fast, and they haven't even flown their first 737 over the Atlantic yet, which has a better chance of succeeding than putting in all of that mass in Argentina. What is their time frame to start these services?
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dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:13 am

These are just route authorities the airline is requesting; it does not mean the airline will operate them from day 1. First it remains to be seen how many of these get awarded (I suspect most, since Norwegian is for the most part (except for FCO/MAD/JFK) staying clear of AR, same on the domestic front. They also are careful to avoid LATAM's big hub in the region, Lima. Once the routes get awarded they can hold on to them for 15 years.

All Norwegian is doing is planning for the future. Argentina's airline traffic is growing at a 20% rate YoY, so there is plenty of room for Norwegian there. None of the routes seem far fetched. Argentina has the one of the largest Jewish populations outside of Israel, so TLV makes sense. CPT is not a new destination from EZE, and MIA moves over a million paxs/year from Argentina; FLL is their base there, they want a piece of the pie. PPT? Yes, a bit odd and not a cheap destination while there, but they may be able to generate demand.
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Wingtips56
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:22 am

Can they squeeze 34 flights into little AEP?
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dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:33 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Can they squeeze 34 flights into little AEP?


Yes, as long as they overnight the planes (or most of them) at an outstation or at EZE. The issue with AEP right now is lack of parking spaces during the night.
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Longhornmaniac
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:34 am

IGU should be changed to IGR. IGU is on the Brazilian side.

Wow. That's just an incredible amount of flights/destinations. I'd be surprised if the protectionist Argentine government granted more than 10% of that. Hope I'm wrong.
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dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:44 am

Longhornmaniac wrote:
IGU should be changed to IGR. IGU is on the Brazilian side.

Wow. That's just an incredible amount of flights/destinations. I'd be surprised if the protectionist Argentine government granted more than 10% of that. Hope I'm wrong.


Ouch. That is quite the mistake I made. :embarrassed2: :embarrassed2:

There has been a change of administration in Argentina. You may be thinking of Cristina Kirchner's presidency. Policies have changed since she left office on Dec. 2015. The new administration (Mauricio Macri) has been the polar opposite to her policies.
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C010T3
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:00 am

The procedures and proceedings for route authority in Argentina are just laughable.
 
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c933103
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:18 am

huh EZE-CPT as discussed in other thread
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:30 am

For the EZE-PPT one, it would be competing against SCL-IPC-PPT route? But how many people would fly via EZE to Tahiti....North American/European connecting traffic? But it would be quite out of way compared to an HNL connection for North American travellers and won't really have benefit against Asian connection for European traveller, although for traveller going to place like this they usually care a bit less about travel time, although the relative fuel consumption factor is still there... Or are they just asking for the route....
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dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:34 am

c933103 wrote:
For the EZE-PPT one, it would be competing against SCL-IPC-PPT route? But how many people would fly via EZE to Tahiti....North American/European connecting traffic? But it would be quite out of way compared to an HNL connection for North American travellers and won't really have benefit against Asian connection for European traveller, although for traveller going to place like this they usually care a bit less about travel time, although the relative fuel consumption factor is still there... Or are they just asking for the route....


This is just an authorities' grab by Norwegian. Who knows if that will ever happen or not. We will see Norwegian to Europe (LGW in December, as rumored) and the US first, doubtless.
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BENAir01
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:37 am

Wow, I really like the list! Especially TLV, would be such an interesting route!
A lot of these, especially PPT, seem like they're really just asking, kind of just in case.
Also should be noted it makes sense they're going after CPT and not JNB, as CPT is a much more leisure based airline, and CPT is the more leisure destination. Plus it has less competition.

@dcajet who talked about LIM being LATAMs bigger station, AFAIK, it's actually SCL. By quite a bit. And Norwegian is going after them.
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dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:51 am

BENAir01 wrote:
@dcajet who talked about LIM being LATAMs bigger station, AFAIK, it's actually SCL. By quite a bit. And Norwegian is going after them.


I meant as a connecting hub not as a station. LIM offers way more options on north-south connections than SCL, at least for Argentina.

The only sensible connection one can think of @ SCL (besides domestic) is to AKL & SYD.

Rds,
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guillelds
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:37 am

AV should be scared. By the way, it would be great to see EZE-BOG in the medium term
 
wenders825
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:42 am

sort of feel like AA will pull the trigger on MIA-COR in order to get into the market before this even remotely happens

route authorities are one thing. I doubt the vast majority of these will ever come to fruition
 
77H
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:46 am

One question I have is why doesn't Norwegian have different branding for all these ventures? Sure the Parent Company could and would still be Norwegian but why not brand the operation to match the locale in which the intend to serve? Norwegian itself probably has little to no brand capital whatsoever in SA and is your average SA traveler going to think to look at Norwegian for domestic or intra-South America flying?
I understand Air Asia has multiple country specific airlines but at the end of the day, they all operate within the Asian Continent. Even as a av-geek I wouldn't think to check Air Asia's website flying MEX to CUN for example. I understand my example is fictitious but it gets my point across.

An example of this was YV (Mesa Airlines) attempt at a branded operation in Hawaii. Mesa had no brand capital in Hawaii whatsoever and admittedly the name go! was probably not the best attempt to align itself with the cultural market. There was a lot of contention surrounding their entry into the market and the name made the airline stick out like a sore thumb almost ensuring it never gained brand capital over time. An local gas station recently branded themselves as Hele which means "to go, to come" which could have been used by Mesa at the time and perhaps helped their cause in the island chain over time. I would imagine that sentiment will largely be the same towards a foreign carrier in a place like Argentina that has no intention of aligning itself with the cultural market outside having Argentina in the name.

77H
 
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NearMiss
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:09 am

I can see EZE - PPT happening, but I don't know if it would work without a stop in IPC, and to land in IPC you must ask LATAM for permission, as there is some sort of a monopoly.

TLV is a really good plan in my opinion as the Israeli/Jewish comunity in Argentina is quite big.
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SCQ83
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:22 am

Are those direct routes or also codeshares?

For instance, TLV could be connecting in BCN since they already fly BCN-TLV and they will start EZE-BCN. However BCN-TLV is with another AOC.
 
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:35 am

Good news for BA flight attendants based at EZE who are about to lose their jobs...
 
LHLX
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:16 am

I cannot imagine that EZE-TLV would be flown nonstop.
When LY served TLV-GRU they had to take a detour (basically from TLV all the way to Spain and then down the Atlantic instead of over Africa). This flight took 15:30 mins and was flown with a 777-200ER, and if Norwegian was to link the two cities nonstop they'd have to take a detour also. That would mean over 17:30 block time. Over 60% of LY passengers transferred at GRU to EZE, so if LY had had the range I'm sure they would have linked TLV with EZE nonstop. I doubt a 787 can fly EZE-TLV nonstop.
I could, however, imagine a route EZE-CPT-TLV. There is a Jewish community in CPT and for now LY has a monopoly on TLV-South Africa nonstop routes with 3x weekly service to JNB...
A CPT-TLV flight would take around 10 hours.
 
CXA330300
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:01 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if they start off with non-AR routes either. A surprising amount of traffic there, I would imagine. Argentina is always "in" as a tourist destination.

LHLX wrote:
I cannot imagine that EZE-TLV would be flown nonstop.
When LY served TLV-GRU they had to take a detour (basically from TLV all the way to Spain and then down the Atlantic instead of over Africa). This flight took 15:30 mins and was flown with a 777-200ER, and if Norwegian was to link the two cities nonstop they'd have to take a detour also. That would mean over 17:30 block time. Over 60% of LY passengers transferred at GRU to EZE, so if LY had had the range I'm sure they would have linked TLV with EZE nonstop. I doubt a 787 can fly EZE-TLV nonstop.
I could, however, imagine a route EZE-CPT-TLV. There is a Jewish community in CPT and for now LY has a monopoly on TLV-South Africa nonstop routes with 3x weekly service to JNB...
A CPT-TLV flight would take around 10 hours.


The Jewish community in Cape Town (17000) is way smaller than Johannesburg (80000) or Buenos Aires (250000). CPT-TLV would take closer to 11 because of needing to fly around a few countries. Most of the CPT community takes ET or TK to Israel.
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:18 pm

I was kinda bummed to see MCO wasnt on their list! MCO-EZE has been long talked about whether it is on DY or Aerolineas.
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JetBuddy
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Argentina has tremendous potential. The country as a whole is doing better and better, it's got large diaspora populations and growing as a tourist goal. Buenos Aires is a fantastic city with an "old world" feeling like capitals in Europe. Lots of fantastic and unique nature in the rest of the country as well. And underserved and overpriced air service. Great choice by Norwegian.
 
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:41 pm

I'm surprised that they applied for EZE-CPH and not EZE-OSL. Also quite surprised about COR-FDF/PTP. I wonder if they have plans to make FDF and PTP a transfer hub between North and South America.
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CXA330300
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:45 pm

lesfalls wrote:
I'm surprised that they applied for EZE-CPH and not EZE-OSL. Also quite surprised about COR-FDF/PTP. I wonder if they have plans to make FDF and PTP a transfer hub between North and South America.


Many of their routes are from CPH and not OSL, because CPH has a bigger catchment area. TLV, for example.
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:10 pm

77H wrote:
One question I have is why doesn't Norwegian have different branding for all these ventures? Sure the Parent Company could and would still be Norwegian but why not brand the operation to match the locale in which the intend to serve? Norwegian itself probably has little to no brand capital whatsoever in SA and is your average SA traveler going to think to look at Norwegian for domestic or intra-South America flying?
I understand Air Asia has multiple country specific airlines but at the end of the day, they all operate within the Asian Continent. Even as a av-geek I wouldn't think to check Air Asia's website flying MEX to CUN for example. I understand my example is fictitious but it gets my point across.

An example of this was YV (Mesa Airlines) attempt at a branded operation in Hawaii. Mesa had no brand capital in Hawaii whatsoever and admittedly the name go! was probably not the best attempt to align itself with the cultural market. There was a lot of contention surrounding their entry into the market and the name made the airline stick out like a sore thumb almost ensuring it never gained brand capital over time. An local gas station recently branded themselves as Hele which means "to go, to come" which could have been used by Mesa at the time and perhaps helped their cause in the island chain over time. I would imagine that sentiment will largely be the same towards a foreign carrier in a place like Argentina that has no intention of aligning itself with the cultural market outside having Argentina in the name.

77H

Definitely curious to me as well. Makes no sense. It's one thing if it was even like Delta or United that have geographical neutral names, but Norwegian Argentina just sounds really stupid.
 
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:18 pm

Routes needed IMO are EZE-LAX/LGW/CPT, and COR-MIA/FLL.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:26 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Definitely curious to me as well. Makes no sense. It's one thing if it was even like Delta or United that have geographical neutral names, but Norwegian Argentina just sounds really stupid.


Agreed. A better name could be Stratosphere Air, Patagonia Airlines, or simply something like Air Argentina (but Aerolineas translates to Argentine Airlines so this may be too close).
 
SonOfABeech
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:00 pm

That is ambitious, to say the least.

One question: would a potential PPT flight fall under the Argentina-France bilateral?
 
dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:11 pm

NearMiss wrote:
I can see EZE - PPT happening, but I don't know if it would work without a stop in IPC, and to land in IPC you must ask LATAM for permission, as there is some sort of a monopoly.

TLV is a really good plan in my opinion as the Israeli/Jewish comunity in Argentina is quite big.


EZE-PPT is comparable in distance to EZE-JFK, but because it is basically an east-west route it may have a stronger jetstream to fly against westbound. That said, if at an attractive and competitive price point, Norwegian could time it to connect with its proposed EZE-ORY/CDG flight and it would be around 2 hrs longer than PPT-LAX-CDG but without the hassle of US immigration checks.

LHLX wrote:
I cannot imagine that EZE-TLV would be flown nonstop.
When LY served TLV-GRU they had to take a detour (basically from TLV all the way to Spain and then down the Atlantic instead of over Africa). This flight took 15:30 mins and was flown with a 777-200ER, and if Norwegian was to link the two cities nonstop they'd have to take a detour also. That would mean over 17:30 block time. Over 60% of LY passengers transferred at GRU to EZE, so if LY had had the range I'm sure they would have linked TLV with EZE nonstop. I doubt a 787 can fly EZE-TLV nonstop.
I could, however, imagine a route EZE-CPT-TLV. There is a Jewish community in CPT and for now LY has a monopoly on TLV-South Africa nonstop routes with 3x weekly service to JNB...
A CPT-TLV flight would take around 10 hours.


That is a good question. El Al had to take this horrible detour (which eventually doomed the flight) due to the long standing Arab-Israeli conflict. Now, Norwegian would be flying the route with their Argentinian AOC. Why would an Argentinian airline be subject to such restrictions, being a neutral party to the conflict?

EZE-TLV is around 7,600 miles, according to gcmapper, comparable to a SYD-LAX. That is right up the alley for a 787.

On a related note, earlier this year, Argentina and Israel signed a new bilateral, complete with talk on the press about launching a direct service between the two countries. At the time, the speculation was either LY or AR, but on second thought... enter Norwegian Arg?
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drdisque
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:26 pm

Seriously? COR-FDF? If you would have told me 3 years ago that in 2017 Norwegian Airlines would be building a scissor hub in Fort De France, I would have said you'd be certifiably insane.
 
Mortyman
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:04 pm

Surprised to see Papeete. Is this even economical possible from Argentina ? Would have been better if they flew from Europe to Hawaii and then maybe continued to Papeete.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:34 pm

CXA330300 wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
I'm surprised that they applied for EZE-CPH and not EZE-OSL. Also quite surprised about COR-FDF/PTP. I wonder if they have plans to make FDF and PTP a transfer hub between North and South America.


Many of their routes are from CPH and not OSL, because CPH has a bigger catchment area. TLV, for example.

Thats not true. OSL has many more flights then CPH operated by Norwegian. It would make more sense for them to fly to OSL from EZE I feel because the amount of connections available would be a lot higher comparison to having a flight to CPH.
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incitatus
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 pm

This Norwegian list is pure entertainment.

I do not doubt that Norwegian can base half a dozen narrow-bodies in Argentina to do short-hauls. But half of the Argentinian economy exists around Buenos Aires, so the volume for much more will come a long time from now. Among Latam, Aerolineas e Andes, the whole domestic network in Argentina is flown by about 50 aircraft and has not grown much in the last several years.

International has seen a bit of growth since the new government took place and that is related to foreign investment in Argentina. But that international list can't be serious. ROS-FLL? The whole Rosario airport has a dozen flights a day. I almost spilled my coffee. Rosario economy needs to triple to support that. Maybe they are planning long-haul service with once-a-month frequency.
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Mortyman
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:26 pm

incitatus wrote:
This Norwegian list is pure entertainment.

I do not doubt that Norwegian can base half a dozen narrow-bodies in Argentina to do short-hauls. But half of the Argentinian economy exists around Buenos Aires, so the volume for much more will come a long time from now. Among Latam, Aerolineas e Andes, the whole domestic network in Argentina is flown by about 50 aircraft and has not grown much in the last several years.

International has seen a bit of growth since the new government took place and that is related to foreign investment in Argentina. But that international list can't be serious. ROS-FLL? The whole Rosario airport has a dozen flights a day. I almost spilled my coffee. Rosario economy needs to triple to support that. Maybe they are planning long-haul service with once-a-month frequency.


I seem to remember that this was in a 15 years span
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:52 pm

It should be pointed out that these are requests for the Argentinian certificate. Other flights like to/from Europe/other countries can be operated by NAI/NAS/NUK and may already have authorization or ability to operate said routes via existing bilateral. Just my .02
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:11 pm

77H wrote:
One question I have is why doesn't Norwegian have different branding for all these ventures? Sure the Parent Company could and would still be Norwegian but why not brand the operation to match the locale in which the intend to serve? Norwegian itself probably has little to no brand capital whatsoever in SA and is your average SA traveler going to think to look at Norwegian for domestic or intra-South America flying?
I understand Air Asia has multiple country specific airlines but at the end of the day, they all operate within the Asian Continent. Even as a av-geek I wouldn't think to check Air Asia's website flying MEX to CUN for example. I understand my example is fictitious but it gets my point across.

An example of this was YV (Mesa Airlines) attempt at a branded operation in Hawaii. Mesa had no brand capital in Hawaii whatsoever and admittedly the name go! was probably not the best attempt to align itself with the cultural market. There was a lot of contention surrounding their entry into the market and the name made the airline stick out like a sore thumb almost ensuring it never gained brand capital over time. An local gas station recently branded themselves as Hele which means "to go, to come" which could have been used by Mesa at the time and perhaps helped their cause in the island chain over time. I would imagine that sentiment will largely be the same towards a foreign carrier in a place like Argentina that has no intention of aligning itself with the cultural market outside having Argentina in the name.

77H

On the other hand Alaska seems to be doing quite well in Hawaii

LHLX wrote:
I cannot imagine that EZE-TLV would be flown nonstop.
When LY served TLV-GRU they had to take a detour (basically from TLV all the way to Spain and then down the Atlantic instead of over Africa). This flight took 15:30 mins and was flown with a 777-200ER, and if Norwegian was to link the two cities nonstop they'd have to take a detour also. That would mean over 17:30 block time. Over 60% of LY passengers transferred at GRU to EZE, so if LY had had the range I'm sure they would have linked TLV with EZE nonstop. I doubt a 787 can fly EZE-TLV nonstop.
I could, however, imagine a route EZE-CPT-TLV. There is a Jewish community in CPT and for now LY has a monopoly on TLV-South Africa nonstop routes with 3x weekly service to JNB...
A CPT-TLV flight would take around 10 hours.

Look at Qatar's flights to GRU yesterday...not sure if that is 787-ablle though
Mortyman wrote:
Surprised to see Papeete. Is this even economical possible from Argentina ? Would have been better if they flew from Europe to Hawaii and then maybe continued to Papeete.

Would Europe-HNL be too long for them to operate efficiently...?
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77H
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:43 pm

c933103 wrote:
77H wrote:
One question I have is why doesn't Norwegian have different branding for all these ventures? Sure the Parent Company could and would still be Norwegian but why not brand the operation to match the locale in which the intend to serve? Norwegian itself probably has little to no brand capital whatsoever in SA and is your average SA traveler going to think to look at Norwegian for domestic or intra-South America flying?
I understand Air Asia has multiple country specific airlines but at the end of the day, they all operate within the Asian Continent. Even as a av-geek I wouldn't think to check Air Asia's website flying MEX to CUN for example. I understand my example is fictitious but it gets my point across.

An example of this was YV (Mesa Airlines) attempt at a branded operation in Hawaii. Mesa had no brand capital in Hawaii whatsoever and admittedly the name go! was probably not the best attempt to align itself with the cultural market. There was a lot of contention surrounding their entry into the market and the name made the airline stick out like a sore thumb almost ensuring it never gained brand capital over time. An local gas station recently branded themselves as Hele which means "to go, to come" which could have been used by Mesa at the time and perhaps helped their cause in the island chain over time. I would imagine that sentiment will largely be the same towards a foreign carrier in a place like Argentina that has no intention of aligning itself with the cultural market outside having Argentina in the name.

77H

On the other hand Alaska seems to be doing quite well in Hawaii

LHLX wrote:
I cannot imagine that EZE-TLV would be flown nonstop.
When LY served TLV-GRU they had to take a detour (basically from TLV all the way to Spain and then down the Atlantic instead of over Africa). This flight took 15:30 mins and was flown with a 777-200ER, and if Norwegian was to link the two cities nonstop they'd have to take a detour also. That would mean over 17:30 block time. Over 60% of LY passengers transferred at GRU to EZE, so if LY had had the range I'm sure they would have linked TLV with EZE nonstop. I doubt a 787 can fly EZE-TLV nonstop.
I could, however, imagine a route EZE-CPT-TLV. There is a Jewish community in CPT and for now LY has a monopoly on TLV-South Africa nonstop routes with 3x weekly service to JNB...
A CPT-TLV flight would take around 10 hours.

Look at Qatar's flights to GRU yesterday...not sure if that is 787-ablle though
Mortyman wrote:
Surprised to see Papeete. Is this even economical possible from Argentina ? Would have been better if they flew from Europe to Hawaii and then maybe continued to Papeete.

Would Europe-HNL be too long for them to operate efficiently...?


The difference there is that AS has a huge frequent flier following and major brand recognition in the Pacific Northwest and West Coast and AS offers flights to and from Hawaii to those areas. AS does not provide intra-Hawaii service. Norwegian Argentina intends to do domestic flying within Argentina. I posted a hypothetical scenario above in which Air Asia, (which operates much like Norwegian) offered domestic services within Mexico. Very few people from the general populace would think to check the Air Asia website flying between MEX and CUN.

77H
 
dcajet
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:10 pm

incitatus wrote:
This Norwegian list is pure entertainment.

I do not doubt that Norwegian can base half a dozen narrow-bodies in Argentina to do short-hauls. But half of the Argentinian economy exists around Buenos Aires, so the volume for much more will come a long time from now. Among Latam, Aerolineas e Andes, the whole domestic network in Argentina is flown by about 50 aircraft and has not grown much in the last several years.

International has seen a bit of growth since the new government took place and that is related to foreign investment in Argentina. But that international list can't be serious. ROS-FLL? The whole Rosario airport has a dozen flights a day. I almost spilled my coffee. Rosario economy needs to triple to support that. Maybe they are planning long-haul service with once-a-month frequency.


Again, this is an authorities' grab by Norwegian. You can't be serious thinking they are all going to happen on day 1. But if you look at them carefully, all seem to have their rhyme and reason.

Buenos Aires is the big locomotive of Argentina, same as the state of SP drives Brazil. The point? Aerolineas Argentinas alone has over 70 aircraft. And that number is irrelevant as you seem to forget the population of Argentina, about 45 million. Can't be compared to larger neighbors that have at least 5 times that population. And size alone means nothing. At the end of the day, Luxembourg is tiny and has an airport that has a limited number of flights and destinations. Now, ask me where the quality of life is better - in Luxembourg or larger places that have airports with more traffic? Norwegian is clearly setting its sights on the market and city with the highest quality of life in the region; its air sector is underdeveloped and overpriced. If they play their cards rights, and Argentina's notorious two steps forward, one step back politics does not rear its ugly head again, they could be in for a nicely profitable time there. Me thinks they know a good opportunity when they see one.

Rosario is the center of Argentina's agricultural region; its port handles more than half of the grain exports of the 3rd largest producer in the world; that activity translates into one of the wealthiest regions in the country. People from Rosario have always traveled, they just did it via Buenos Aires, 180 minutes by road. Now that the shackles that kept ROS tiny have been lifted, ROS has become the fastest growing airport in the country, and over 60% of its traffic is international. It went from hardly over 100K paxs/year to a million paxs in less than a year. A city like Rosario, with over a million people, can perfectly well support a twice weekly flight to the US, today. Especially is the demand is generated and stimulated by an LCC like Norwegian.
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AtomicGarden
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:27 am

Recent airline "start ups" in Argentina made me remember the old saying "if you build it, they will come". I am trying to think of a good reason why so many paper airlines have requested such ludicrous routes.
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Mortyman
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:08 pm

c933103 wrote:
Would Europe-HNL be too long for them to operate efficiently...?


Don't think so
 
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:17 pm

btw, is PPT covered under the European Single Aviation Market, or do they need additional approval from authority, or subject to additional restriction, if they want to operate out of PPT?
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flyingcat
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Re: List of routes requested by Norwegian Argentina

Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:46 pm

JUJ! Wow they are ambitious.

AR currently is the dominant one with three daily flights. Andes would probably bow out with only one frequency Mon-Fri

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