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A330freak
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:21 pm

Ethiopian order for 10 additional A350s confirmed :)
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https://twitter.com/_AirlinerWorld/stat ... 1055500290
 
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jnev3289
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:24 pm

Waiting on that Jetblue A330neo order like...
 
george77300
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:43 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It could be that Airbus walks out of Paris with more additional firm orders for the A321neo, than Boeing for the 737-10.

The overwhelming number of MoUs for the 737-10 and zero firm orders suggests that at this time Boeing is not yet allowed to walk out of Paris, or anywhere, with firm orders for the 737-10. They need board approval first.


They do need approval first hence why all the MOU. But all will turn to firm orders when they have board approval to go ahead withe the aircraft.
 
astuteman
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:21 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It could be that Airbus walks out of Paris with more additional firm orders for the A321neo, than Boeing for the 737-10.

The overwhelming number of MoUs for the 737-10 and zero firm orders suggests that at this time Boeing is not yet allowed to walk out of Paris, or anywhere, with firm orders for the 737-10. They need board approval first.


Some of these orders ARE firm though.

There are at least 4 new firm orders according to the Seattle Times, and I can only imagine that a firm 737-8 or 737-9 converts into a FIRM 737-10.
Before the UA conversion there were 64 conversions from firm orders for other MAXes.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Boeings next weekly update to show at least 168 firm 737-10 MAX es.

4 of which are NEW firm orders (as opposed to conversions).

Rgds
 
Waterbomber
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:29 pm

What's up with Airbus? The show is almost over and they barely booked any orders. 100 some boring lessor A320NEO orders, not even a dozen A350's.
Where are those bulk orders and conversions for the super-popular hot-selling frenzy-inducing A321NEO LR orders at?
Not even a single A330NEO so far.
Even the "man who sold the sky" can't sell A380's and all they can come up with is pig-lipstick. Time to retire?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:30 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
What's up with Airbus?


So much for Airbus saving up orders for the air show.

Another a.net myth debunked.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ericm2031
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:36 pm

Airbus does show up late at shows with orders at the end sometimes.

But they also don't have a new variant of an aircraft like Boeing, so it's not expected that Airbus would have as much press to share. They have already gotten those orders that Boeing is now finally getting.
 
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winterlight
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:36 pm

Leahy has put on some weight.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
jbs2886
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:36 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
What's up with Airbus?


So much for Airbus saving up orders for the air show.

Another a.net myth debunked.


Not necessarily. It would require Airbus having orders in order to save them up. :duck:
 
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Polot
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Isn't there still 2 more days of the trade show?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:46 pm

george77300 wrote:
Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It could be that Airbus walks out of Paris with more additional firm orders for the A321neo, than Boeing for the 737-10.

The overwhelming number of MoUs for the 737-10 and zero firm orders suggests that at this time Boeing is not yet allowed to walk out of Paris, or anywhere, with firm orders for the 737-10. They need board approval first.


They do need approval first hence why all the MOU. But all will turn to firm orders when they have board approval to go ahead withe the aircraft.


Rubbish, some orders for the 737-10 are declared firm, if there would be a problem with board approval at Boeing we would not see any firm orders. So it must be on the airlines side that wants an MOU or LOI instead of a firm order.
 
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Polot
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:49 pm

Well we have one article that says 4 (and only 4) 737-10s are firm. What order is that?

Note a conversion is not automatically a firm order for the 737-10 either. That just means Boeing and the airline reached an agreement to convert an order, just like an MoU is an agreement to possibly order an aircraft. That doesn't mean that conversion has been officially performed and the 737-10 is firm.
 
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OA940
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:56 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Airbus does show up late at shows with orders at the end sometimes.

But they also don't have a new variant of an aircraft like Boeing, so it's not expected that Airbus would have as much press to share. They have already gotten those orders that Boeing is now finally getting.


A380plus? I also was hoping for A350 orders. The 787 has close to 50 orders at the show and the A350 has much less. C'mon Airbus, you can do better than this.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
720B
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:07 pm

 
720B
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:08 pm

And Delta ordered 10 A321... (current engine option)


http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... a321s.html
 
fcogafa
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:13 pm

For the benefit of the MAX10 detractors, it is not unusual for a newly announced model to start in this way, all 'orders' for the A330NEO at Farnborough 2014 were MOU/LOI/Commitments or whatever

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=574533&hilit=farnborough+air+show+2014&start=50
Last edited by fcogafa on Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:16 pm

720B wrote:
And Delta ordered 10 A321... (current engine option)


http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... a321s.html

Now they will be operating 122 A321CEO when they're all delivered! Delta must be getting good deals on these end of the line A321CEOs.
 
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qf789
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:36 pm

Round up after Day 2

GECAS 100 x A320/321neo (order)
ALC 12 x A321neo(order)
Viva Air 15 x A320ceo, 35 x A320neo (MOU)
Ethiopian 10 x A350-900 (order)
CDB Aviation 30 x A320neo, 15 x A321neo (MOU)
Delta 10 x A321ceo (order)

15 x A320ceo
65 x A320neo
10 x A321ceo
27 x A321neo
100 x A320neo family (breakdown not known)
10 x A350-900

132 orders
95 MOU

Total 227
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ahj2000
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:50 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
720B wrote:
And Delta ordered 10 A321... (current engine option)


http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... a321s.html

Now they will be operating 122 A321CEO when they're all delivered! Delta must be getting good deals on these end of the line A321CEOs.

By My count, AA only has a handful of 321 deliveries left CEO. IM surprised they haven't gone for more, especially as Airbus seems to be giving them out for cheaper. Maybe United would want some as well if the price is right? THEY stilhave a Bunch of rapidly aging 757s...
-Andrés Juánez
 
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Keith2004
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:52 pm

Wide-body orders are definitely not what they used to be at these shows.
 
fcogafa
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:04 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
[quote=" Delta must be getting good deals on these end of the line A321CEOs.


The 'end of the line' seems to get further and further away for all the CEO models....
 
astuteman
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:04 pm

fcogafa wrote:
For the benefit of the MAX10 detractors, it is not unusual for a newly announced model to start in this way, all 'orders' for the A330NEO at Farnborough 2014 were MOU/LOI/Commitments or whatever

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=574533&hilit=farnborough+air+show+2014&start=50


And for the benefit of the 737-10 MAX boosters, the 787-10 also launched at this very show 4 years ago with "102 orders".
(Singapore - 30, ALC - 30, UA - 24, BA - 12, GECAS - 10)
34 were firmed in that month (SQ - 30, UA - 4).
The other 20 of the UA orders still don't appear in the 787-10 backlog to this day.

total orders to date, 4 years later stand at 132

As fcogafa says, this is normal business for a new model launch these days.
It is neither the second coming, nor doomsday.

rgds
 
Someone83
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:05 pm

fcogafa wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
[quote=" Delta must be getting good deals on these end of the line A321CEOs.


The 'end of the line' seems to get further and further away for all the CEO models....


Yes, the way Delta is ordering A321ceo, they seems to be keeping the CEO in production for longer than Airbus planned
 
astuteman
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:08 pm

qf789 wrote:
Round up after Day 2

GECAS 100 x A320/321neo (order)
ALC 12 x A321neo(order)
Viva Air 15 x A320ceo, 35 x A320neo (MOU)
Ethiopian 10 x A350-900 (order)
CDB Aviation 30 x A320neo, 15 x A321neo (MOU)
Delta 10 x A321ceo (order)

15 x A320ceo
65 x A320neo
10 x A321ceo
27 x A321neo
100 x A320neo family (breakdown not known)
10 x A350-900

132 orders
95 MOU

Total 227


Thanks for this.
With respect to the GECAS order, every press release I've seen says it is for A320 NEO only, not A320/A321
What have I missed?

Rgds
 
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qf789
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:11 pm

astuteman wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Round up after Day 2

GECAS 100 x A320/321neo (order)
ALC 12 x A321neo(order)
Viva Air 15 x A320ceo, 35 x A320neo (MOU)
Ethiopian 10 x A350-900 (order)
CDB Aviation 30 x A320neo, 15 x A321neo (MOU)
Delta 10 x A321ceo (order)

15 x A320ceo
65 x A320neo
10 x A321ceo
27 x A321neo
100 x A320neo family (breakdown not known)
10 x A350-900

132 orders
95 MOU

Total 227


Thanks for this.
With respect to the GECAS order, every press release I've seen says it is for A320 NEO only, not A320/A321
What have I missed?

Rgds


The press release refers to the order for being for 100 A320neo family, that's why I have put it as A320/A321

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... craft.html
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Waterbomber
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:58 pm

I can't help but feel that the A330 program was doing far better before Airbus launched the NEO.
They even reached a 120 per year prodution rate at some point and used to receive dozens of orders at the yearly shows.
Since the NEO launched, they received the launch orders and then almost nothing.

Perhaps the real problem on the A330NEO is that the RR T7000 is the Only Engine Option and the fact that at low oil prices, fuel efficiency is not as relevant as a lower purchase price and an early delivery slot.

I'm thinking that Airbus should have continued to offer the A330 as it was but reconfigured to enable "plug & play" of the different engine types so that operators could swap the engines to their requirements. RR could then have offered the T7000 as an additional engine option, presenting a clear advantage IF oil prices go up.
Low oil prices? Keep the CF6, PW4000 or T700's on.
Oil prices rise? Swap to T7000's at the next C-check.
Low capital cost when fuel is cheap, Low fuel cost when fuel is high.

Less unit margin for Airbus, but more sales and better competitiveness versus the B787 in the long term.
Last edited by Waterbomber on Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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moo
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:59 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
I can't help but feel that the A330 program was doing far better before Airbus launched the NEO.
They even reached a 120 per year prodution rate at some point and used to receive dozens of orders at the yearly shows.
Since the NEO launched, they received the launch orders and then almost nothing.

Perhaps the real problem on the A330NEO is that the RR T7000 is the Only Engine Option and the fact that at low oil prices, fuel efficiency is not as relevant as a lower purchase price and an early delivery slot.


Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that the 787s issues are over, does it...?
 
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Stitch
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:02 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
I can't help but feel that the A330 program was doing far better before Airbus launched the NEO. They even reached a 120 per year prodution rate at some point and used to receive dozens of orders at the yearly shows. Since the NEO launched, they received the launch orders and then almost nothing.


The A330ceo benefitted from being both "good enough" and available earlier than the 787 and A350. The A330neo's availability is probably no better than the 787's and with the A350 production process maturing so well, it's gap should be shrinking significantly, as well.
 
Theseus
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:03 pm

moo wrote:
Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that the 787s issues are over, does it...?


I read widebody aircraft sales have been slower in the last four years. This does not help. Not such a great timing for the NEO...
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:05 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
I can't help but feel that the A330 program was doing far better before Airbus launched the NEO.
They even reached a 120 per year prodution rate at some point and used to receive dozens of orders at the yearly shows.
Since the NEO launched, they received the launch orders and then almost nothing.

Perhaps the real problem on the A330NEO is that the RR T7000 is the Only Engine Option and the fact that at low oil prices, fuel efficiency is not as relevant as a lower purchase price and an early delivery slot.


Well, the thing is that A330CEO is still in production and since we're nearing the end of the line, frame prices are likely lower that before the NEO. Soooo yeah I think it's just that even the A330 has it's limits.
In time orders will come, worry not. Most clients want their frames ASAP so the CEO is right for them.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:18 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
What's up with Airbus?


So much for Airbus saving up orders for the air show.

Another a.net myth debunked.


Well, it could be that this WAS the saved up orders, and it could be that they WILL have saved orders in Dubai. However, the reality is that it doesn't really matter. The MAX 10 has a bunch of sales/mou's today but perhaps nothing more for months. It's all just a game they play for us a.netters. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
AA737-823
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:34 pm

qf789 wrote:
Airbus Press Release on 10 A321ceos for Delta

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... a321s.html


I do NOT understand why Delta continues to order more and more A321s with the old-generation CFM56 engines.
Not that they aren't good airplanes- they are.
But the NEO is no longer off in the distance, down the road, etc. It's here and now, with two engines to choose from (one that runs too hot, and one that fails in flight... maybe that's the answer to my question?).
 
LightningZ71
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:36 pm

You'd have to think that the A330NEO would be attractive based on its selling price and relatively close delivery slots? Unless there is still uncertainty about the engines still based on the continuing (though likely nearing an end) delays on that front.

As for the 321ceos for Delta, do you think that at some point Airbus will make them a "sweet" offer to convert to the NEO just to get the whole of the line converted to NEO production? Granted, for a lot of what Delta wants to do with those 321s, which is short to mid haul domestic from what I've read, the ceo may be a more suitable platform as the NEO doesn't appear to beat the CEO in fuel usage on short legs (again, from what I've read here).
 
astuteman
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:44 pm

qf789 wrote:
astuteman wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Round up after Day 2

GECAS 100 x A320/321neo (order)
ALC 12 x A321neo(order)
Viva Air 15 x A320ceo, 35 x A320neo (MOU)
Ethiopian 10 x A350-900 (order)
CDB Aviation 30 x A320neo, 15 x A321neo (MOU)
Delta 10 x A321ceo (order)

15 x A320ceo
65 x A320neo
10 x A321ceo
27 x A321neo
100 x A320neo family (breakdown not known)
10 x A350-900

132 orders
95 MOU

Total 227


Thanks for this.
With respect to the GECAS order, every press release I've seen says it is for A320 NEO only, not A320/A321
What have I missed?

Rgds


The press release refers to the order for being for 100 A320neo family, that's why I have put it as A320/A321

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... craft.html


Even that release is a bit ambiguous if you ask me. It clearly sates A320NEO's and also mentions A320 NEO family. time will tell I guess.

Waterbomber wrote:
I can't help but feel that the A330 program was doing far better before Airbus launched the NEO.
They even reached a 120 per year prodution rate at some point and used to receive dozens of orders at the yearly shows.
Since the NEO launched, they received the launch orders and then almost nothing.

Perhaps the real problem on the A330NEO is that the RR T7000 is the Only Engine Option and the fact that at low oil prices, fuel efficiency is not as relevant as a lower purchase price and an early delivery slot.


Perhaps the real reason is that widebody orders across the board have absolutely tanked in the last 2-3 years.

Just a few posts up-thread I've pointed out that in 4 years the 787-10 has essentially garnered just 30 orders since it's original 102 "launch orders".
In fact it positively makes the A330NEO look good in comparison
But my intent wasn't to castigate what is obviously a fine aircraft with a great future.

more to point out that these things are a marathon, not a sprint.

You are looking for reasons that aren't there IMO. Market for widebodys is soft. Period.

Rgds
 
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lightsaber
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:04 pm

A330freak wrote:
Ethiopian order for 10 additional A350s confirmed :)
Image
https://twitter.com/_AirlinerWorld/stat ... 1055500290


Good news. I thought with the issues Ethiopian is having getting cash out of some nations that they would have to slow expansion. Very good news. :)

jnev3289 wrote:
Waiting on that Jetblue A330neo order like...

Ditto. Anything new on this order? My sources wouldn't be able to tell me until after the fact (NDAs) as there are limits on my rumor mill. :(

fcogafa wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
Delta must be getting good deals on these end of the line A321CEOs.


The 'end of the line' seems to get further and further away for all the CEO models....

CFMs slow ramp makes them willing to discount heavily. Airbus must keep the line going. To say the least, the NEO/MAX ramp is not meeting expectations. But notice something about the CEO orders? They are all from airlines notorious for paying little for airframes (including G4). Last I looked, CFM needed to sell more CEOs or MAXs for the transition as the LEAP production ramp is behind schedule.

Yes, I know Pratt hasn't met demand either. But their engine is more popular on the A321CEO, so that has helped them tremendously in maintaining a transition backlog with less discounting (I don't for a second believe they are immune to the laws of economics).

The prices my rumor mill is telling me on 737NG/A320CEO/A321CEOs are surprisingly low. If true, Delta received an offer they couldn't refuse (CFM in particular must help sell more CFM-56 powered airframes due to the poor LEAP-1 ramp rate).

[quote="winterlight wrote:
Leahy has put on some weight.

Well, he finally realized he is an American. :duck:
Seriously, the greatest airplane salesman ever and we're worried about late in life weight increase?

jbs2886 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
What's up with Airbus?


So much for Airbus saving up orders for the air show.

Another a.net myth debunked.


Not necessarily. It would require Airbus having orders in order to save them up. :duck:

Yea... I think that is the root cause. Airbus is oversold (a classy problem). The next A320NEO and A350 orders are too far out and with 787 slots becoming available... the A330NEO is having it tough. You have to sell to hold orders. Airbus is fine though. Their issue is the A320 and A350 backlogs are just too darn long. What a classy problem to have...

Albeit 207 A320NEO family orders and a few CEOs isn't bad at all! With ten A350s too... (227 total, thanks for summing qf789).

AA737-823 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Airbus Press Release on 10 A321ceos for Delta

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... a321s.html


I do NOT understand why Delta continues to order more and more A321s with the old-generation CFM56 engines.
Not that they aren't good airplanes- they are.
But the NEO is no longer off in the distance, down the road, etc. It's here and now, with two engines to choose from (one that runs too hot, and one that fails in flight... maybe that's the answer to my question?).

Pricing. Delta's business model weighs heavily on minimizing capital expenses. They also place a premium on dispatch reliability (excluding the MD-80, Delta generally has fewer spare aircraft on hand and thus maintains for dispatch reliability which neither NEO is delivering).

We also have a situation where the premium for the NEO/MAX is dropping rapidly. Delta has smart executives. They know that in 2018/2019 the premium for the NEO/MAX will go away. So they will put out a RFP and see what premium is expected. Since CFM/Boeing/Airbus must sell more current engine slots to keep the lines moving, the discounts offered create that premium. In fact, DL will accept 739s at the right price.

Buying cheap allows flexibility. If you want to replace early, why not? No money lost. If the best economic option is lower utilization (only high RASM flight times), why not? If DL decides to fly the planes intensely as there is enough high RASM demand, they will do so (why not, they're new reliable planes, the only issue is fuel burn costs).

Delta will be new engines on their own timeline. They will bid Bombardier, Boeing, and Airbus against each other for the best deal for Delta. It appears the best deals were A321CEOs and earlier this year letting Boeing exercise 739 puts (reverse options where Boeing was allowed to make Delta purchase cheap 739s per the contract).

From what evidence I can find, 737NGs and A320CEOs are selling for about $20million less per plane than they did 3 to 5 years ago. That is quite a bit of fuel (and a price I didn't expect to see). Get your popcorn, until Pratt and CFM have production of the new engines above a thousand per year (both vendors), there will be no choice but to keep selling the old engines at a discount. Yes, I wrote Pratt delivering over a thousand PW1500s and PW1100s per year. Please recall CFM is ramping up to over 1800 LEAP engines per year too... The economies of scale now required in this industry are mind bending.

Lightsaber
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Polot
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:13 pm

Waterbomber wrote:

I'm thinking that Airbus should have continued to offer the A330 as it was but reconfigured to enable "plug & play" of the different engine types so that operators could swap the engines to their requirements. RR could then have offered the T7000 as an additional engine option, presenting a clear advantage IF oil prices go up.
Low oil prices? Keep the CF6, PW4000 or T700's on.
Oil prices rise? Swap to T7000's at the next C-check.
Low capital cost when fuel is cheap, Low fuel cost when fuel is high.

The T7000 is heavier than the CF6/PW4000/T700 by an unignorable margin. That means if you want a "plug and play" model then you are going to have to make the CF6/PW4000/T700 model's worse than the Ceo as the plane will be carrying around the reinforcement (re:weight) necessary to support a T7000 if desired. It also means that if you want to make additional changes (like the wingtip changes on the Neo) to get further improvements you have to certify it for 4 different engine variants...which is expensive.
 
jbs2886
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Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:16 pm

lightsaber wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

So much for Airbus saving up orders for the air show.

Another a.net myth debunked.


Not necessarily. It would require Airbus having orders in order to save them up. :duck:

Yea... I think that is the root cause. Airbus is oversold (a classy problem). The next A320NEO and A350 orders are too far out and with 787 slots becoming available... the A330NEO is having it tough. You have to sell to hold orders. Airbus is fine though. Their issue is the A320 and A350 backlogs are just too darn long. What a classy problem to have...

Albeit 207 A320NEO family orders and a few CEOs isn't bad at all! With ten A350s too... (227 total, thanks for summing qf789).



Agreed, this is the same situation Boeing found itself in, largely with the 787. The first available delivery (or at least of more than 1-2 aircraft) is too far away, the backlog means Boeing doesn't have to discount as much, so the airline isn't going to pay more to wait longer.

For Airbus, I think A330neo is an issue, A350 orders are too far out. A380, well, that's another topic. The A320 is interesting. So many ceo orders that are probably created from neo issues, I think this inflates Airbus' orders a bit (some I know disagree) because it only adds to the backlog at the back end. Yes, they are still orders, but they are shorter timeframe delivery because of delays/deferrals/etc. of neos.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9698
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Keith2004 wrote:
Wide-body orders are definitely not what they used to be at these shows.

It's a cyclical business. Every airline that needs the current portfolio of widebody aircraft has already ordered it. The latest widebody launches were the A330NEO in 2014 and the 777X in 2013. 3 and 4 years respectively have passed and just about anyone who needs one has already ordered it.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:13 pm

Airbus/FG confirm the ETH A350 order was already on the books as unidentified
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-438555/

qf789 wrote:
Round up after Day 2

GECAS 100 x A320/321neo (order)
ALC 12 x A321neo(order)
Viva Air 15 x A320ceo, 35 x A320neo (MOU)
Ethiopian 10 x A350-900 (order)
CDB Aviation 30 x A320neo, 15 x A321neo (MOU)
Delta 10 x A321ceo (order)

15 x A320ceo
65 x A320neo
10 x A321ceo
27 x A321neo
100 x A320neo family (breakdown not known)
10 x A350-900

132 orders
95 MOU

Total 227
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:16 pm

A350-2000 'shelved' but they could do it anytime if they wanted

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ch-438551/
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:31 pm

fcogafa wrote:
A350-2000 'shelved' but they could do it anytime if they wanted

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ch-438551/


Sounds like the same way I 'shelved' giving up caffeine. :-) Where there's a will, there's a way. Right now, there's no will.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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ikolkyo
Posts: 2666
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:33 pm

fcogafa wrote:
A350-2000 'shelved' but they could do it anytime if they wanted

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ch-438551/


I expect SQ to be firming up their 777X order soon.
 
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gatibosgru
Posts: 1575
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:35 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Waiting on that Jetblue A330neo order like...


It sure would have been something...
@DadCelo
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26397
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:42 pm

fcogafa wrote:
A350-2000 'shelved' but they could do it anytime if they wanted

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ch-438551/


I'm sure they will continue to study it, but they're not going to commit serious resources to it now in order to have it ready around the 777X's EIS.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:51 pm

The 777X isn't exactly selling like hotcakes compared to the 777E/W program so I don't see Airbus in a huge hurry to counter at this point. They might have a small team doing the engineering work to keep things percolating but no need to rush.
 
720B
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:52 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
What's up with Airbus? The show is almost over and they barely booked any orders. 100 some boring lessor A320NEO orders, not even a dozen A350's.
Where are those bulk orders and conversions for the super-popular hot-selling frenzy-inducing A321NEO LR orders at?
Not even a single A330NEO so far.
Even the "man who sold the sky" can't sell A380's and all they can come up with is pig-lipstick. Time to retire?


maybe you can go and offer your services. Sounds like you could do a better job...... as per your post (sounds really arrogant)
 
lostsound
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:01 pm

They'll likely launch the -2000 with a new wing and engine for range once they start considering wrapping up the A380 line which doesn't seem anytime soon with this plus version.
 
ETinCaribe
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:57 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Ethiopian order for 10 additional A350s confirmed :)
Image
https://twitter.com/_AirlinerWorld/stat ... 1055500290


Good news. I thought with the issues Ethiopian is having getting cash out of some nations that they would have to slow expansion. Very good news. :)

Lightsaber



CONGRATS/FELICITATIONS to ET and Airbus, this is yet another amazing milestone for the airline, shows how bullish they still remain in spite of challenges they have in repatriating cash and the financial challenges faced by other carriers. It also speaks about the capabilities of the A359. Again, a great day for ET, Airbus and African Aviation!
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:22 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Waiting on that Jetblue A330neo order like...


It sure would have been something...
Seems like a A321LR would make a lot more sense.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
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jnev3289
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:45 am

Re: 2017 Paris Air Show - Airbus News And Orders

Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:27 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Waiting on that Jetblue A330neo order like...


It sure would have been something...
Seems like a A321LR would make a lot more sense.

Yea, I only said that because someone earlier in the thread had "sources" saying Jetblue was going to announce an A330neo order

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