Norwegian is eyeing other destinations from SWF in addtion to the ones that they are starting in June and July. Stewart Manager Ed Harrison said that Norwegian is happy with the Pre-purchase numbers and is looking at other destinations "and warm weather destinations":

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2017/ ... Jun17.html

Your thoughts? I wonder what the warm destinations would be as I doubt they would serve FDF/PTP from SWF as it will be flown from JFK this winter season?

I'm fascinated to see how this SWF experiment pans out. Huge success or massive failure wouldn't surprise me either way. I do think it is a perfect airport for them (and any other LHLC) because they're not doing any connections anyways. No need to pay up for JFK or EWR

The only things keeping SWF from being a great reliever airport for the NYC area are the lack of adequate public transportation down the river to the city and the insanely small terminal.

The public transportation part can be fixed fairly easily, the terminal part would come if numbers sustained themselves I bet

I think more uk destinations could be added.Possibly even Cork but that unlikely as it's quite close to both Shannon and Dublin.
UK destinations I can see being added are MAN,BHX,GLA,CWF,NCL however could the MAX fly as far as AMS or HAM?

Would be great if they looked at CWL on a 2 to 3 weekly basis.

There is a shuttle bus that Norwegian passengers can use from Manhattan to SWF. It meets arrivals and is timed for departures.

ORK is probably a possibility...

AWACSooner wrote:

The only things keeping SWF from being a great reliever airport for the NYC area are the lack of adequate public transportation down the river to the city and the insanely small terminal.

Maybe are you thinking of HPN?? SWF is huge for the number of flights that operate from there. The place has 6 gates IIRC and some less crowded days I'm not sure it has 6 flights lol. The airport is really under used. If Norwegian really takes off they can add some more concession carts easily or something.

Great to hear that Norwegian are happy with the pre-launch sales. I have booked an EDI-SWF return for a great price in February and I'm looking forward to it.

I know lots of people have booked with Norwegian out of SWF. I wish they offered their Premium service on their 737.

French Caribbean would be interesting, but I don't see it happening from SWF. NYC offers a bit more O & D., but hey they could try it.

Would they be able to offer 5th freedom flights from Europe? Make a routing such as EDI-SWF-SXM?

On a side note. I looked at applying for gate agent work at SWF. It starts at minimum wage. Ouch!

spinkid wrote:

On a side note. I looked at applying for gate agent work at SWF. It starts at minimum wage. Ouch!

This is the 'secret' to Norwegian. Horrendous pay.

The 737 positions pay less than US regionals do.

Varsity1 wrote:

spinkid wrote:

On a side note. I looked at applying for gate agent work at SWF. It starts at minimum wage. Ouch!

This is the 'secret' to Norwegian. Horrendous pay.

The 737 positions pay less than US regionals do.

Then evidently people shouldn't go and work there.

What inaugural aircraft they will be operating on 15th June as 737 MAX delivery is till end of the month? Can their other 737 fly that route?

SWF-LPA is within range, but not many Americans know about the Canary Islands. That being said not that many Americans had much desire to travel to Martinique or Guadelupe and those flights are apparently doing well. They could also try somewhere in Portugal.

RTW00 wrote:

What inaugural aircraft they will be operating on 15th June as 737 MAX delivery is till end of the month? Can their other 737 fly that route?

I believe it is 73H EI-FHY that is currently based at EDI. It will operate the TATL flights as a 150 seater until the MAX8s arrive.

They could definetely try MAX8 from PVD to Azores. Also believe some weekly flights from SWF to OPO is feasible.

hibtastic wrote:

Great to hear that Norwegian are happy with the pre-launch sales. I have booked an EDI-SWF return for a great price in February and I'm looking forward to it.

I have friends who live in westchester county and for us JFK/LGA/EWR tend to be our go to airports but they are spending a week in Ireland In the fall so booked SWF-SNN. I was very excited to hear! It actually takes much less time to get to then, say, JFK.

A few quick things:

- SWF is installing duty free and a new restaurant/bar in the terminal for these flights.
- There is a bus that is timed to Norwegian's flights called the Stewart Airport Express. It runs from Port Authority.
- Weight restricted -800s will operate the routes until the MAX is ready. The capacity restriction isn't as severe as some may think because the -800s have ETOPS already whereas the MAX engine is not yet certified.

TheGeordielad wrote:

I think more uk destinations could be added.Possibly even Cork but that unlikely as it's quite close to both Shannon and Dublin.
UK destinations I can see being added are MAN,BHX,GLA,CWF,NCL however could the MAX fly as far as AMS or HAM?

No AMS and HAM are far out of economical range.

drdisque wrote:

SWF-LPA is within range, but not many Americans know about the Canary Islands. That being said not that many Americans had much desire to travel to Martinique or Guadelupe and those flights are apparently doing well. They could also try somewhere in Portugal.

Not really. Reality of the thing (MAX) is that you can not put 189 pax + bags onboard and fill the tanks. It is a short haul airplane any which way people try ti spin it.

Norwegian is not going to make any profit with 150 pax in a 737-800. But they rarely make profit anyway.

AWACSooner wrote:

The only things keeping SWF from being a great reliever airport for the NYC area are the lack of adequate public transportation down the river to the city and the insanely small terminal.

Right about the transport but I laugh at the small terminal reference. You're not wrong, the terminal is small, but it is massive relative to the terminal (errr, modular room?) I flew out of when SWF first opened as a commercial airport in the early 90s.

ETA: And yes I know about the Norwegian bus, which probably works fine for Norwegian's business model. But AWACSooner's point (if I may be presumptuous, since this would be my point) is that SWF won't be a successful general reliever airport (or '4th NYC airport') without a better mass transit connection, which isn't even in the works. Niche service like Norwegian might find a way to work, but we'll never see SWF at its potential as a full-scale NYC reliever until convenient mass transit exists (and I'm not sure that will be anytime in the foreseeable future)

SWF reminds me of Paris' third airport Beauvais BVA which is trying to copying, both are ex-military and both are tiny marquee-like facilities. However, once BVA was established, it has now grown to France's 10th biggest airport. Possible route, although Norwegian doesn't have any planes based in BVA as their routes are to ORY and CDG.

smallvoyageur wrote:

SWF reminds me of Paris' third airport Beauvais BVA which is trying to copying, both are ex-military and both are tiny marquee-like facilities. However, once BVA was established, it has now grown to France's 10th biggest airport. Possible route, although Norwegian doesn't have any planes based in BVA as their routes are to ORY and CDG.

Wouldn't think so as they serve JFK from CDG

BVA is a bad example since Ryanair doesn't have a single base in France due to labour disputes with the French government (same in Denmark) so all flights to/from France are flown with planes based in the other airport (and the odd domestic flights in France are flown in a W pattern).

I don't think a train connection is necessary. Major Ryanair airports like BGY (10M PAX) or CRL (7M PAX) work only with coaches. If SWF becomes a major Norwegian hub in the future, I could see coaches on a 30-60' basis (like CRL) to Manhattan and even additional lines (several times a day) to other areas in the immediate region. For instance, you could have a SWF-Connecticut shuttle (at least New Haven or Hartford and somewhere else in between) or a Hudson Valley shuttle all the way up to Albany. That would add more demand to those flights.

BENAir01 wrote:

I have friends who live in westchester county and for us JFK/LGA/EWR tend to be our go to airports but they are spending a week in Ireland In the fall so booked SWF-SNN. I was very excited to hear! It actually takes much less time to get to then, say, JFK.

That is one of the points many Ryanair "naysayers" do not understand till this day (despite Ryanair being the largest European carrier). Those "in the middle of nowhere" airports have their own catchment areas. SWF will have a few million people happy not to enter into NYC metro area to catch a plane. Legacies' "big city centrism" is part of Ryanair's and Norwegian's success.

SCQ83 wrote:

I don't think a train connection is necessary. Major Ryanair airports like BGY (10M PAX) or CRL (7M PAX) work only with coaches. If SWF becomes a major Norwegian hub in the future, I could see coaches on a 30-60' basis (like CRL) to Manhattan and even additional lines (several times a day) to other areas in the immediate region.

For something like Norwegian service, agreed, the bus might (should?) work. The reference to train connection was if SWF ever wants to be a full-service fourth NYC airport as oppose to operating niche service like Norwegian plus the less than 10 domestic flights they have per day (all of which are on planes with 100 or less seats). If SWF ever gets a good, fast, reliable connection to the city, it could grow it's flight portfolio potentially, not just to Europe.

hibtastic wrote:

RTW00 wrote:

What inaugural aircraft they will be operating on 15th June as 737 MAX delivery is till end of the month? Can their other 737 fly that route?

I believe it is 73H EI-FHY that is currently based at EDI. It will operate the TATL flights as a 150 seater until the MAX8s arrive.

EI-FHY is currently passing the time at EDI doing solely an EDI-OSL-EDI run each day. TATL is due to start on Thursday (EDI-SWF) and Friday (EDI-PVD) which will require a second aircraft as SWF is a daily operation.

There are still seats available for EDI-SWF on 15th and for EDI-PVD on 16th, although I note that, for example, PVD-EDI on Sunday (18th) is fully sold out.

Natflyer wrote:

TheGeordielad wrote:

drdisque wrote:

SWF-LPA is within range, but not many Americans know about the Canary Islands. That being said not that many Americans had much desire to travel to Martinique or Guadelupe and those flights are apparently doing well. They could also try somewhere in Portugal.

Not really. Reality of the thing (MAX) is that you can not put 189 pax + bags onboard and fill the tanks. It is a short haul airplane any which way people try ti spin it.

Norwegian is not going to make any profit with 150 pax in a 737-800. But they rarely make profit anyway.

SWF-LPA is only 141 km longer than SWF-MAN.

jnev3289 wrote:

The public transportation part can be fixed fairly easily, the terminal part would come if numbers sustained themselves I bet

And how would you fix it.

stlgph wrote:

jnev3289 wrote:

The public transportation part can be fixed fairly easily, the terminal part would come if numbers sustained themselves I bet

And how would you fix it.

More of the current buses

ty97 wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

I don't think a train connection is necessary. Major Ryanair airports like BGY (10M PAX) or CRL (7M PAX) work only with coaches. If SWF becomes a major Norwegian hub in the future, I could see coaches on a 30-60' basis (like CRL) to Manhattan and even additional lines (several times a day) to other areas in the immediate region.

For something like Norwegian service, agreed, the bus might (should?) work. The reference to train connection was if SWF ever wants to be a full-service fourth NYC airport as oppose to operating niche service like Norwegian plus the less than 10 domestic flights they have per day (all of which are on planes with 100 or less seats). If SWF ever gets a good, fast, reliable connection to the city, it could grow it's flight portfolio potentially, not just to Europe.

If SWF ever becomes something like CRL or BGY (anywhere between 5 and 10 million; that is a long shot!) it would become al alternative forth airport in NYC.

JFK 58,956,288 EWR 40,351,331 LGA 29,786,769

NYC airports have relatively comparable passenger numbers (JFK is not even twice LGA's) but in London or Paris the situation is quite different:

London with 6 airports: LHR 75,711,130 LGW 43,119,628 STN 24,320,071 LTN 14,645,619 LCY 4,538,813 SEN 874,549
Paris; BVA is (arguably) considered a Paris airport CDG 63,813,756 ORY 28,862,586 BVA 4,024,201

Also if Norwegian at SWF becomes successful, it wouldn't be surprised that (if the terminal is ever expanded) it would attract additional low-cost service, like Spirit or Frontier.

Most of the success of these secondary airports in Europe is due to Ryanair and Wizzair. But they only fly in Europe, not in America. The only airline in America that also prefers secondary airports is Allegiant. Allegiant so far only has a limited presence in Stewart, but it's a perfect growth opportunity for them. They might even set up a feeder deal with Norwegian where Allegiant provides the feeder flights within America and Norwegian the connections to Europe.

Norwegian is reducing payload on the -800 by 39 pax, 4000 kgs give or take. The MAX is not going to better the NG by that amount. Perhaps burning 1600-1800 kgs less going across. The higher MTOW is almost eaten up by the higher OEW. So, a 160-170 pax payload is what is reasonable for the MAX to carry across. Then you get the days when there is a headwind all the way westbound. Additionally the 737 is not fully FANS compliant and will be penalized on the NAT-tracks. A lot of potential restrictions. And people on here have been complaining about the 757 from mainland Europe.

I'm going to be a naysayer and say this is going to not go well for Norwegian.

Only the cheapest of the cheapskates will utilize this service and it will not be enough to cover the costs, especially if fuel prices ever increase.

I give it two years (until the incentives run out) and then the flights will be gone...

jnev3289 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

jnev3289 wrote:

The public transportation part can be fixed fairly easily, the terminal part would come if numbers sustained themselves I bet

And how would you fix it.

More of the current buses

While buses from midtown are a natural idea I just wonder if a bus service from the nearby Metro North station would work.
Of course that means trekking across the city or subway to get on a train to get on a bus to get on a plane which sounds like a total abortion but Port Authority is a total mess all the damn time and there's so much Hudson Yards construction as it is anyway.
BUT, people will do just about anything to save a buck these days.

Unbelievable, not going to work. I don't think people on this thread truly appreciate how much New Yorkers would not travel to places that they can't get to by subway, local train or uber.

Norwegian can keep filling their flights at sub $200 one way tickets and keep losing money. Can't wait to see their earning report a year from now. I don't know who in new York would pay like 300 one way to squeeze in a 737 filled with 190 people.

I wonder if they have an opportunity to use Islip as well. Then you sort of box in JFK to a degree. Yes there are transportation issues but getting to JFK is no treat let alone parking costs.

stlgph wrote:

jnev3289 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

And how would you fix it.

More of the current buses

While buses from midtown are a natural idea I just wonder if a bus service from the nearby Metro North station would work.
Of course that means trekking across the city or subway to get on a train to get on a bus to get on a plane which sounds like a total abortion but Port Authority is a total mess all the damn time and there's so much Hudson Yards construction as it is anyway.
BUT, people will do just about anything to save a buck these days.

How many people from new York City take subway to port authority and then board those buses to Woodbury Commons instead of shopping at Macy's or centuy 21? It's the same idea.

Nobody does it. Most of those buses carry tourists.

Here is another question, how many New Yorkers have taken metronorth in the past year?

Norwegian doesn't care if the buses are coming in with tourists, locals or penguins. As long as someone is getting on their damn planes, that's all they care about.

Numerous New Yorkers in the city itself take Metro North for whatever the reason. No different than the folks taking LIRR or NJT out to Jamaica or Newark.

tphuang wrote:

Unbelievable, not going to work. I don't think people on this thread truly appreciate how much New Yorkers would not travel to places that they can't get to by subway, local train or uber.

Norwegian can keep filling their flights at sub $200 one way tickets and keep losing money. Can't wait to see their earning report a year from now. I don't know who in new York would pay like 300 one way to squeeze in a 737 filled with 190 people.

You'd be surprised. The way Norwegian operates I think they can actually make a profit on these sub $ 200 flights. And the demand is there for sure, no need to worry about that. It's not like they need to fill hundreds of planes at once. Even if nobody from New York takes these flights they can still fill them to the last seat. Surprisingly, people from the outskirts of New York seem to find these flights quite attractive. A little more distance, but much faster to reach from let's say Yonkers or Paterson. From there you have to cross the whole city to get to JFK which might take hours, or you have to cross the woods with little traffic and get to Stewart in less time than it takes to get to JFK. On top of that, flights from JFK or Newark are mostly more expensive than flights from Stewart.

tphuang wrote:

How many people from new York City take subway to port authority and then board those buses to Woodbury Commons instead of shopping at Macy's or centuy 21? It's the same idea.

Nobody does it. Most of those buses carry tourists.

Here is another question, how many New Yorkers have taken metronorth in the past year?

These bus connections are indeed mostly aiming at tourists, but that's not a bad thing. There are enough tourists on these flights to fill them, no need for anybody from New York to make use of them.

So far little people from New York have taken the Metro North because there was nothing there. However, that might chance when there is actually something worth going to up the Metro North.

SCQ83 wrote:

I don't think a train connection is necessary. Major Ryanair airports like BGY (10M PAX) or CRL (7M PAX) work only with coaches.

Bergamo airport is well connected by a city bus line (15 minutes ride, 2 €) with a proper train station where frequent trains take you all over northern Italy. There are numerous bus lines departing from the airport to various destinations within the greater Milano area.
There is also a train station in Charleroi afaik.

One bus line from SWF and zero alternatives is quite disappointing... at least from this side of the ocean where (PRG, TXL, VIE, BUD) budget conscious traveler can fly to JFK/EWR for 400-500 EUR 10 months in a year out of 12.

L410Turbolet wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

I don't think a train connection is necessary. Major Ryanair airports like BGY (10M PAX) or CRL (7M PAX) work only with coaches.

Bergamo airport is well connected by a city bus line (15 minutes ride, 2 €) with a proper train station where frequent trains take you all over northern Italy. There are numerous bus lines departing from the airport to various destinations within the greater Milano area.
There is also a train station in Charleroi afaik.

One bus line from SWF and zero alternatives is quite disappointing... at least from this side of the ocean where (PRG, TXL, VIE, BUD) budget conscious traveler can fly to JFK/EWR for 400-500 EUR 10 months in a year out of 12.

400-500 euros to New York sounds actually quite expensive, that can be done much cheaper.

Of course Stewart isn't that well connected yet, however that was the case with most of these small airports in Europe too before Ryanair came to be. Rome Ciampino for example was almost completely deserted when Fiumicino opened and all airlines moved there. Look at it now, the terminal is too small to fit all the passengers using this airport. All because of Ryanair and Wizzair. As soon as airlines start using an airport connectivity to that airport is being set up. For a long time Stewart was as good as deserted, now it starts to live.

stlgph wrote:

Numerous New Yorkers in the city itself take Metro North for whatever the reason. No different than the folks taking LIRR or NJT out to Jamaica or Newark.

Of course it's different, since there's no connection to SWF from Metro North.

(I am an NYC resident who has, in the past year, used Metro North lines on both the east and west sides of the Hudson, though not regularly).

stlgph wrote:

jnev3289 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

And how would you fix it.

More of the current buses

While buses from midtown are a natural idea I just wonder if a bus service from the nearby Metro North station would work.
Of course that means trekking across the city or subway to get on a train to get on a bus to get on a plane which sounds like a total abortion but Port Authority is a total mess all the damn time and there's so much Hudson Yards construction as it is anyway.
BUT, people will do just about anything to save a buck these days.

There is a bus between the station and airport:
http://www.panynj.gov/airports/swf-publ ... ation.html

Don't forget people can rent a car too to get to the airport. That leads to there being 3 options for transportation.

First Norwegian flight from EDI to SWF today and it will be operated by EI-FJS.

Nice to finally see it on the departure boards at EDI.

First flight from EDI touched down 30 mins early at SWF after a flight time of 6 hours 58 mins and was given the water treatment:

https://twitter.com/swfairport/status/8 ... 2375947269

Meanwhile Bjorn Kjos the CEO of Norwegian said today at the launch that the airline has plans to serve Los Angeles, San Francisco, Memphis, airports in Canada such as Toronto and additional airports north of Boston from EDI within the next two years.

I live right by SWF, so I hope it's a success.

There are several pluses:
Theairport is quiet and vastly underutilized.
There is a dedicated bus to midtown Manhattan.
There is a shuttle to the Beacon railroad station, which travels directly to Grand Central Station.
The Hudson Valley is one of the fastest-growing NYC suburbs. Huge corporate and tourism opportunities.

The drawbacks:
JFK/EWR/LGA have vastly more options to go anywhere.
The fares on Norwegian aren't that great unless there's a promotion. I placed a hold on four tickets to Dublin/Shannon, along with a CIE
tour. It was very expensive. We chose Colorado instead (SWF-DTW-DEN) for one-quarter of the cost.

Let's see what this does to other transatlantic services. I certainly prefer planes with beds but will read reports from the riff-raff online.

DaveFly wrote:

I live right by SWF, so I hope it's a success.

There are several pluses:
Theairport is quiet and vastly underutilized.
There is a dedicated bus to midtown Manhattan.
There is a shuttle to the Beacon railroad station, which travels directly to Grand Central Station.
The Hudson Valley is one of the fastest-growing NYC suburbs. Huge corporate and tourism opportunities.

The drawbacks:
JFK/EWR/LGA have vastly more options to go anywhere.
The fares on Norwegian aren't that great unless there's a promotion. I placed a hold on four tickets to Dublin/Shannon, along with a CIE
tour. It was very expensive. We chose Colorado instead (SWF-DTW-DEN) for one-quarter of the cost.

I think it's great for the folks in the Hudson Valley and hope it succeeds for that reason. But prices would have to be rock bottom to make it worth it to go up from the city. Still, I think with 737s and, on certain flights, non-daily service, maybe they can stimulate enough Hudson Valley (and maybe western CT, northeastern PA?) traffic to make it work. It's great for the people to whom SWF is convenient.

Newburgh is a large town, with a number of motels nearby, just off I-84 East/West and the NY Thruway (North-South). It would be a great option for those in the Hudson Valley, Catskill region and north toward Albany NY and even toward Central NY State, northernmost NJ (Sussex, upper Passaic Co.,) Northeastern most PA (Pike and a few other counties due to I-84), and Northwestern CT (also I-84). For most there could be no or cheaper tolls than to JFK/EWR. Parking should be cheap and as demand increases, off-site parking and car rentals with shuttle buses will develop.
As to trains, they run about every hour N/S as off peak day hours at Beacon and offer an option to those going to Dutchess, Putum and Westchester Counties on the East of the Hudson in NY State.
I just hope people not familiar with the the region and the USA understand that SWF is a long way from NYC and take in additional costs and time to get to and from SWF vs. JFK/EWR.