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Flying-Tiger
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New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Lufthansa will introduce a couple of new intercontinental flights in summer 2018:

Frankfurt - San Diego 5/7
Munich - Singapore 5/7
Munich - Chicago +3/7 to 10/7

Furthermore, 5 A380 will be transfered from Frankfurt to Munich with additional growth (at least one additional long haul plane per year) to come.

Source: various press reports

Finally back on the growth track...
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:16 pm

Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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N14AZ
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:18 pm

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Furthermore, 5 A380 will be transfered from Frankfurt to Munich with additional growth (at least one additional long haul plane per year) to come.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
Is this kind of a punishment of Fraport ?!?!
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:19 pm

Here's the press release:

http://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/en/n ... 2/458.html

Good news for Airbus A380 Fans in Munich: Starting in summer 2018, Lufthansa will introduce the Airbus A380 in Munich on long-haul destinations to Los Angeles, Hong Kong and Beijing. For this reason, Lufthansa will transfer five of its 14 Airbus A380s from Frankfurt to Munich.


Quite a shock that MUC is getting A380s.
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Flying-Tiger
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:32 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Furthermore, 5 A380 will be transfered from Frankfurt to Munich with additional growth (at least one additional long haul plane per year) to come.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
Is this kind of a punishment of Fraport ?!?!


Whilest publically talking about thinking about this type of action is good for the general audience, noone is taking such a decision on the utilization of multi-billion Euro assets just for the sake of punishment. It´s rather growth on the mentioned routes which has been so strong in the past couple of years that it was probably worth the consideration to put either the B748 or A388 onto these ones.

From my point of view it´s just a commercial decision, allowing for an increase in market share. And it may - depending on the scheduling - allow for some overall utilization gains in the A380-800 fleet, maybe allowing even additional flights not being possible so far. Or - if not in this subfleet - in the subfleet in Frankfurt, which is now taking over these or other flights.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
Kikko19
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:32 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Here's the press release:

http://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/en/n ... 2/458.html

Good news for Airbus A380 Fans in Munich: Starting in summer 2018, Lufthansa will introduce the Airbus A380 in Munich on long-haul destinations to Los Angeles, Hong Kong and Beijing. For this reason, Lufthansa will transfer five of its 14 Airbus A380s from Frankfurt to Munich.


Quite a shock that MUC is getting A380s.


MUC will increase the feed from Italy/airdolomiti after AZ will be gone. good move IMHO
 
bw50505
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:33 pm

Looks like Condor will get a run for their money at SAN. They only started seasonal flights from FRA to SAN this summer and it will be interesting to see if they return next summer when Lufthansa starts.

Anyone know/have an idea what the aircraft might be that LH uses? My best guess is a Lufthansa Cityline A340-300.
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:36 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Is this kind of a punishment of Fraport ?!?!


Rather than punishment, seems like a smart allocation of resources to where they are needed. There seems to exist some strange notion here on A.net that MUC is somehow a weaker link to FRA. In reality, both hubs function very successfully together and serve different purposes.
 
PanHAM
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:46 pm

"Punichment" may be the wrong word, but LH i at Odds with Fraportover their offffer to FR. At the same time, MUC Needs to make sure that additional Slots are necessary. to justify the 3rd runway. IMHO, both FRA and MUC will come out s winners. LH has Options to divert Transfer traffic betwen their hubs as needed and Show the Airport Operators at the same time that their concrete investments are useless without a hub carrier and that a hubcarrier Needs workable conditions..
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CXA330300
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:48 pm

Nice to see. Some of the new intercontinental flights are doing well - the Frankfurt-Cape Town flight is very popular out of South Africa.
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Irehdna
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:49 pm

Surprising that MUC is getting A380, but more surprising that JFK is not one of the MUC A380 destinations. Seriously, LH operates the only daily flight from JFK-MUC (on the A346), and one would think there is more demand on the sector than a single daily A346 flight.

Though interesting they think that LAX has more potential than JFK. For both cities LH is the only flight to MUC, and I would guess JFK would have more demand. Perhaps that's not the case, LAX-MUC has stronger demand/yield than JFK-MUC?
 
voxkel
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:53 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Surprising that MUC is getting A380, but more surprising that JFK is not one of the MUC A380 destinations. Seriously, LH operates the only daily flight from JFK-MUC (on the A346), and one would think there is more demand on the sector than a single daily A346 flight.

Though interesting they think that LAX has more potential than JFK. For both cities LH is the only flight to MUC, and I would guess JFK would have more demand. Perhaps that's not the case, LAX-MUC has stronger demand/yield than JFK-MUC?


I have been told JFK-MUC will go to 2x A359 when the fleet size is enough. Don't count me on this though.
 
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EK413
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:58 pm

Wow 5 A380's to be based at MUC! Sure is a shock & I bet MUC spotters are over the moon with this news :)

EK413
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conaly
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:12 pm

voxkel wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
Surprising that MUC is getting A380, but more surprising that JFK is not one of the MUC A380 destinations. Seriously, LH operates the only daily flight from JFK-MUC (on the A346), and one would think there is more demand on the sector than a single daily A346 flight.

Though interesting they think that LAX has more potential than JFK. For both cities LH is the only flight to MUC, and I would guess JFK would have more demand. Perhaps that's not the case, LAX-MUC has stronger demand/yield than JFK-MUC?


I have been told JFK-MUC will go to 2x A359 when the fleet size is enough. Don't count me on this though.


Don't forget about EWR! LH uses another A346 to Newark, UA operates with 763 from there. Both flights are also offered as codeshare between UA and LH (and AC). So the NYC-area is actually quite good with connected to MUC.
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GamingPolaris
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:19 pm

What flights are losing the Airbus A380-800 and what will they be replaced with?
 
SKAirbus
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Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pm

Source: https://www.munich-airport.de/1998078 (in German)

Lufthansa has today announced that in the summer of 2018, it will base five Airbus A380s at its Munich base, not only offering extra capacity on long haul routes but also a new premium offering for passengers.

In addition to the 15 Airbus A350 aircraft being based at MUC, the Lufthansa fleet there is undergoing an astonishing modernisation.

According to Nasdaq.com (http://www.nasdaq.com/article/lufthansa ... 0613-00343), the A380s will operate from MUC to LAX, HKG and PEK.

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LGAviation
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:29 pm

Astonishing move but one should have seen it coming after their longstanding dispute with fraport at FRA and them claiming that their MUC network of 340s is the most fuel-inefficient in Europe and also their slot constraints in MUC. I am wondering as to which A380 routes will be cut ex-FRA and if FRA will receive replacement aircraft in the short term to at least partially compensate for this loss in capacity. LH Group overall could use a couple of wide bodies in the absolute short term.
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Ferroviarius
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:29 pm

Good afternoon,

I have a question:
FRA is close to densely populated areas, MUC is somewhere in the wilderness (if one ignores Hallbergmoos and Freising for the time being). Will it be easier to keep night flight traffic in MUC than in FRA?

Best,
Ferroviarius
 
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N14AZ
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:34 pm

GamingPolaris wrote:
What flights are losing the Airbus A380-800 and what will they be replaced with?

With brandnew A358's from MUC :rotfl: .... just kidding....

There are so many questions, e.g.
1.) sufficient gates for five A380s?
2.) pilots: I guess all A380-pilots are living in the Rhein-Main-area...
3.) maintenance: LH built these huge hangars in FRA...

KarelXWB wrote:
Lufthansa will introduce the Airbus A380 in Munich on long-haul destinations to [...] and Beijing.

MUC - PEK in October, tailor-made for the A380....
 
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Irehdna
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:35 pm

GamingPolaris wrote:
What flights are losing the Airbus A380-800 and what will they be replaced with?


Don't know. I know there are some FRA routes that are seasonally A388 like MIA, DEL, JNB. They could be permanently B748 after this move.
 
adi00654
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:43 pm

Irehdna wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:
What flights are losing the Airbus A380-800 and what will they be replaced with?


Don't know. I know there are some FRA routes that are seasonally A388 like MIA, DEL, JNB. They could be permanently B748 after this move.



Delhi is not a seasonal route and its year round done with a A380.LH top most priority would be India first since they are the most sought EU Carrier in India .

DEL-FRA has good LF all the year for A380 and no where Lufthansa is going to 748 on delhi
 
FSDan
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:45 pm

N14AZ wrote:
There are so many questions, e.g.
1.) sufficient gates for five A380s?
2.) pilots: I guess all A380-pilots are living in the Rhein-Main-area...
3.) maintenance: LH built these huge hangars in FRA...


I'd bet that the 388s will rotate to MUC through LAX, PEK, and HKG. Then theoretically there's no need to base crew in MUC or to do maintenance there.
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Kikko19
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:51 pm

FSDan wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
There are so many questions, e.g.
1.) sufficient gates for five A380s?
2.) pilots: I guess all A380-pilots are living in the Rhein-Main-area...
3.) maintenance: LH built these huge hangars in FRA...


I'd bet that the 388s will rotate to MUC through LAX, PEK, and HKG. Then theoretically there's no need to base crew in MUC or to do maintenance there.
as sk does with EWR from cph/sto/osl... not a bad idea
 
PanHAM
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:54 pm

MUC passed FRA with O&D traffic and MUC is located in one of the wealthiest regions in Europe. They will get high Speed rail Access and the layout of the Airport is, due to greenfield Location, better shaped than FRA. MUC is far from being a wilderness. Most important for LH, the costs at MUC are said to be 20% less than FRA's costs.
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trijetsonly
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:04 pm

By now, does Lufthansa have any First Class offering from MUC?

With the A380s goeing to MUC, will Lufthansa reintroduce First Class again on certain routes or are they going to remove the First Class from the A380?
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conaly
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Ferroviarius wrote:
Will it be easier to keep night flight traffic in MUC than in FRA?


MUC also has a ban on night time flights, although these are valid an hour less than in FRA (12AM to 5AM in MUC, 11PM to 5AM in FRA).
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DaufuskieGuy
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:10 pm

bw50505 wrote:
Looks like Condor will get a run for their money at SAN. They only started seasonal flights from FRA to SAN this summer and it will be interesting to see if they return next summer when Lufthansa starts.

Anyone know/have an idea what the aircraft might be that LH uses? My best guess is a Lufthansa Cityline A340-300.


yeah think TPA and SJC similar size markets with no connecting traffic. LH only has 8 343 though per wiki and they'd need at least 1.5 for 5X service, so maybe they'd use 330 of which they have 19
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:36 pm

trijetsonly wrote:
By now, does Lufthansa have any First Class offering from MUC?

With the A380s goeing to MUC, will Lufthansa reintroduce First Class again on certain routes or are they going to remove the First Class from the A380?

All A333&346s have First class.
 
dubaiamman243
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:49 pm

They will fly to Beijing, Hong Kong & LAX during summer 2017
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klm617
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:55 pm

Would be nice to see DTW-MUC
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N14AZ
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:02 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
There are so many questions, e.g.
1.) sufficient gates for five A380s?
2.) pilots: I guess all A380-pilots are living in the Rhein-Main-area...
3.) maintenance: LH built these huge hangars in FRA...


I'd bet that the 388s will rotate to MUC through LAX, PEK, and HKG. Then theoretically there's no need to base crew in MUC or to do maintenance there.
as sk does with EWR from cph/sto/osl... not a bad idea

Some additional Information has been published on aero.de
Die Fluggesellschaft will möglichst schnell in München Flugbegleiter und Piloten stationieren, die auf der A380 als größtem Passagierflugzeug der Welt zugelassen sind. In einer Übergangszeit würden Crews aus Frankfurt eingesetzt, erklärte ein Sprecher. Bis auf weiteres müssten die A380 zudem am Main gewartet werden, weil in München dazu die Infrastruktur fehlt.

Source: http://www.aero.de/news-26864/Lufthansa ... nchen.html

Rough translation:
- LH will base FAs and pilots with A380 certification in MUC a.s.a.p.
- during an interim phase, crews from Frankfurt will be used
- pending further notice, mx works will be done in FRA due to the missing infrastructure in MUC

Sorry for zse pad translation, my English is very little... :innocent:
 
daumueller
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:03 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
trijetsonly wrote:
By now, does Lufthansa have any First Class offering from MUC?

With the A380s goeing to MUC, will Lufthansa reintroduce First Class again on certain routes or are they going to remove the First Class from the A380?

All A333&346s have First class.


Only the 346! 333s lost them this winter.
 
daumueller
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:04 pm

FSDan wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
There are so many questions, e.g.
1.) sufficient gates for five A380s?
2.) pilots: I guess all A380-pilots are living in the Rhein-Main-area...
3.) maintenance: LH built these huge hangars in FRA...


I'd bet that the 388s will rotate to MUC through LAX, PEK, and HKG. Then theoretically there's no need to base crew in MUC or to do maintenance there.


at least with current schedules, that's only possible in HKG
 
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sq421
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:10 pm

adi00654 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
GamingPolaris wrote:
What flights are losing the Airbus A380-800 and what will they be replaced with?


Don't know. I know there are some FRA routes that are seasonally A388 like MIA, DEL, JNB. They could be permanently B748 after this move.



Delhi is not a seasonal route and its year round done with a A380.LH top most priority would be India first since they are the most sought EU Carrier in India .

DEL-FRA has good LF all the year for A380 and no where Lufthansa is going to 748 on delhi



Also, weren't they planning to up-gauge the FRA BOM flight to 748 or 388?
 
PlaneHunter
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:59 pm

Great news, excellent decision.

LGAviation wrote:
I am wondering as to which A380 routes will be cut ex-FRA and if FRA will receive replacement aircraft in the short term to at least partially compensate for this loss in capacity. LH Group overall could use a couple of wide bodies in the absolute short term.


A340s will be transferred to FRA to replace the A380s, according to LH.


PH
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FlyRow
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:03 pm

But remember, it is only a secondary hub!
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A388
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Wow, this is fantastic news for MUC!!! More reason for spotters to visit this beautiful and friendly airport!!!

Cheers,

A388
 
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flymco753
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:21 pm

klm617 wrote:
Would be nice to see DTW-MUC
It's going to take time for LH to jump on MUC because all in all the market isn't big enough for 2 carriers, but in the future as the market keeps growing, DL and LH could split MUC, DL on a 76W and LH on a 333, but that's at least 5 years from now.
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jacobchoi
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Kinda sad that the HKG flight is losing its last remaining A346. Loved the idea of downstairs lavatories and they'll surely be sorely missed. For me, the option of connecting in MUC(346) is much higher than that of FRA(388)
 
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mercure1
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:30 pm

I would view this that some current A380 route allocations out of FRA clearly were not optimal allocation for that large capacity.
Lets see what gets switched to other models at FRA as aircraft shift to FRA.
mercure f-wtcc
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:31 pm

FlyRow wrote:
But remember, it is only a secondary hub!

I wouldn't say so. A couple of months back I would 100% agree with you however Frankfurt and Munich both serve different purposes.Frankfurt is more intercontinental and Munich is more of a European hub.
Both of these hubs are well positioned for the jobs they serve.Lufthansa serves only 2 hubs as they only need 2.Frankfurt as people say is the primary hub which i disagree with and Lufthansa itself would.
Yes Frankfurt has more intercontinental services but yet Munich has more European.I don't think LH would pay for half of MUC T2 if it was a secondary airport for their System.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:33 pm

mercure1 wrote:
I would view this that some current A380 route allocations out of FRA clearly were not optimal allocation for that large capacity.
Lets see what gets switched to other models at FRA as aircraft shift to FRA.

Would some of the A333s based at MUC be shifted over to FRA?
 
B747forever
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:35 pm

Cool, so we will have 2x daily A380s from LH next summer at LAX. Wonder if they still will add the 2nd daily rotation from FRA on the 748i now that MUC gets the A380. Maybe something for UA and the 788 to take over?
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IrishAyes
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Re: New Lufthansa intercontinental routes

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Really awesome news for SAN. A decade ago, it did not have any intercontinental flights, sans for the ill-fated ZOOM route to LGW.

Now, it has British Airways, JAL, Edelweiss, Condor and soon - Lufthansa.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:01 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
But remember, it is only a secondary hub!

I wouldn't say so. A couple of months back I would 100% agree with you however Frankfurt and Munich both serve different purposes.Frankfurt is more intercontinental and Munich is more of a European hub.
Both of these hubs are well positioned for the jobs they serve.Lufthansa serves only 2 hubs as they only need 2.Frankfurt as people say is the primary hub which i disagree with and Lufthansa itself would.
Yes Frankfurt has more intercontinental services but yet Munich has more European.I don't think LH would pay for half of MUC T2 if it was a secondary airport for their System.


I think you miss my pun at the other MUC thread.
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NichCage
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:05 pm

I would have never expected this move. The largest Lufthansa aircraft at MUC is the A340-600. I wouldn't think the load factors would be good enough for the A380 at MUC, if the A340-600 is the largest aircraft operating there.
 
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Miami
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:09 pm

I'm curious to see which routes from FRA that serve with an A380 will be replaced.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:23 pm

Interesting move and good for MUC, but frankly bad sign that LH has less optimal choices to utilize the large A380 from its intercontinental hub at FRA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
thomasphoto60
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:23 pm

Miami wrote:
I'm curious to see which routes from FRA that serve with an A380 will be replaced.

Curious about this myself, getting a bad vibe about IAH.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
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mercure1
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Re: Lufthansa to base 5 A380s at MUC

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:27 pm

LH might be in situation like Air France where the A380 are assigned to the least bad choice of route. Aircraft is far too big and less than optimal for most AF markets, but the fleet must be kept busy so its sent to where it would be the least disruptive for revenues and yield.
mercure f-wtcc

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