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WPvsMW
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:38 pm

77H wrote:
I know many locals that would jump all over Spirit were it to offer service to the 9th island at Spirit-esque fair levels not to mention vacationers to Hawaii they may not be able to swing tickets on the network carriers.


Most here think of Honshu as the 9th island. :lol:
 
dfwjim1
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 pm

a/c dxer wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
a/c dxer wrote:

Probably can't carry enough out of Kona or Lihui to make money. Would be severely weight restricted.


You probably mean OGG. KOA has a long runway.


You are right. I knew PHLI couldn't. Was thinking OGG. Which they do fly to Ord but have heard it is weight restricted.


I was in Maui in 2011 and the UAL flight to ORD would first fly to KOA (due to OGG's short runway) and then head to ORD but now the flight to ORD from
Maui goes straight to ORD.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

Hmm, what origins have non-stop service to DEN that don't have non-stops to SFO or LAX?


https://antoniomedrano.github.io/p/misc ... _11_01.pdf (stole the link from another site so credit goes to someone else)

Judging from this route map, quite a few actually. Granted, a lot of these cities aren't the glitzy urban areas but there are still a lot of hard-working people that have saved up for the one-in-a-lifetime trip to Hawaii or the newlyweds that want to honeymoon there etc. Heck, I live in a city that has non-stop service to both DEN and SFO and I would opt for DEN every time.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:07 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
As to codesharing, HA mgmt must be pondering the hit on CONUS revenue from UA's expansion, even without a new UA interisland service. The nonstop pax that stay on a destination island (and most visitors do) mean fewer connections ex-HNL to the Neighbor Islands.

It's definitely carrot and stick, but if HA wants to continue having the cash-cow interisland service to themselves (relatively), they will probably play it safe and keep the codeshare in place.
 
77H
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:05 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
77H wrote:
Taking MSN as an example of a medium sized Midwest destination with a relatively wealthy population there are very few options to get to Hawaii on UA (or any airline for that matter) that don't involve a double connect.


I wouldn't advocate MSN-EWR-HNL, but MSN-ORD-HNL certainly isn't out of the way, and that's served by UA today. MSN-MSP-HNL is the most time-efficient connection shown for tomorrow. MSN-DFW-HNL is also competitive.

There are one-stops MSN-xxx-OGG on UA and others. And so on.

Yes, there are origins served from DEN that aren't served from SFO or LAX. I don't think the PDEW for Gillette-Lihue is a very big number...

To a great extent, DEN-Hawaii will be competing with UA's own ORD, SFO and LAX connections, maybe more so than with DL at SLC or AA via PHX. We'll see if it works.


I have taken MSN-ORD-HNL plenty over my lifetime. However, they are not always available due to demand. Many UA flights into ORD feed the ORD-HNL flight so it is a crap shoot at times getting that flight to come up at a reasonable price. Moreover, one has to take the early morning ~0500 departure from MSN to connect to ORD-HNL. I find MSN-DEN-HNL to be a much better experience. You can get on the 0850 flight to DEN with about an hour and a half layover.

As for travel to any of the other Hawaiian Islands you are looking at a double connect from any city that does not have nonstop service to SFO or LAX. Opening DEN as the interior gateway solves this as DEN serves more cities than either SFO or LAX. Overall I think this is a good move by UA to compete with AA and DL East of the Mississippi and has the added bonus of keeping cycles lower on the sCO 752 (75B) fleet.

77H
 
dfwjim1
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:49 pm

I don't have the numbers but I imagine the OD numbers between Denver and Colorado Springs and the Hawaiian islands must be pretty decent.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:03 am

My question now that Orange County SNA market/Economy has fully recovered would it be wise for UA to resume SNA-HNL service.
The rich OC people love there airport and hate LAX. Even with westbound weight restrictions they could probably make money in this economy.


Sadly, it probably won't happen. I've asked this question on A-net as well, as have others. The thing is, as bad the drive up to LAX is from here in South Orange County, if it means saving a few dollars we'll do it. I've even researched flights from SNA to SAN, SFO, OAK and Phoenix trying to get a cheap connecting deal to Hawaii, and no joy, so LAX it is. Then, toss in the issues with the shorter runway and while airlines certainly could make money flying SNA-Hawaii, would they make as much as if they deployed those aircraft to other routes? That's the thing. If a plane is better utilized from from SNA to someplace else than to Hawaii, where the load factors and economics will be superior, then that's where the plane will go.

Personally, I'm rooting for service from Ontario to Hawaii. ONT isn't all that much further to drive, and the traffic is usually better. Usually... As the economy recovers in the Inland empire (a painfully slow recovery in some areas, granted), there will hopefully be demand for such services, perhaps from Hawaiian when their A321s come online, or from Southwest when they finally fly to Hawaii instead of teasing us year after year after year. If they can do it, then perhaps United will also give it a look.

We Orange Countians can dream, right?
 
Rdh3e
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:17 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Hmm, what origins have non-stop service to DEN that don't have non-stops to SFO or LAX? How many people from those origins are going to Hawaii on an average day?

Just off the top of my head a few would be (no particular order):
CID, DSM, FSD, RAP, BIL, SAF, GRR, MSN, MKE, MLI, SGF, DAY, CMH, RIC, SDF, BHM, SHV, LBB, MAF, AMA, GJT, COS, DRO,.TUL, LIT, HSV, YYZ, CLT, YWG, YEG, BIS, ICT, LNK.

There are probably more, but you get the picture, it's a lot.
 
rbavfan
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:14 pm

77H wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
If you were correct the legacies wouldn't be making record profits and ULCCs wouldnt be such a market force as they are today.

Every piece of evidence is pointing the other way my friend.


Well then why did Allegiant flop? There are no LCCs flying mainland to Hawaii from the US in any amount that matters. On competitive routes, the profitable airlines are upping the ante and competing (heaven forbid), on quality+Service and not just price. Service levels, now I don't want to jinx it, are going up.


G4 still flies to HNL. Saw their 57 at the North Hardstands last week. G4's issue in Hawaii isn't onboard soft product quality but rather reliability and more importantly their overall business model. G4 is a travel company with an in-house airline and in almost all markets it serves sells vacation packages to justify routes. This proved difficult for G4 given the prices of hotels and rental cars in Hawaii. If you look at their mainland focus cities, many of them are relatively inexpensive sun destinations. Hawaii is not that.

As far as ULCC/LCCs flying to HI, name one that has had an aircraft type and ETOPS program that would allow them to operate to Hawaii in the last 5 years? In my opinion the fact that F9/NK don't fly to Hawaii is again more about their overall business models than people not wanting to fly them on longer stage lengths. Don't forget that transcon flight times can run as long or longer than WC-Hawaii flying and the US ULCCs have flights that do operate nearly coast to coast if I'm not mistaken.

With the sharklet equipped 320 series and NEOs coming online for F9/NK they now have aircraft that can physically make the journey. But ETOPS programs cost a lot of money and my educated guess is that neither airline wants to invest in such a program just to serve an already competitive Hawaii especially when they have no other markets that need the program. And before anyone says AS has no other markets that need ETOPS and they are successful in Hawaii realize that AS entered the market when there was a huge void in air service left by the AQ/TZ demise so the situation is not the same. NK/F9 and even WN when they get around to it would be entering a very strong and competive market.

I think as F9/NK grow in stature we may one day see them enter the market. I know many locals that would jump all over Spirit were it to offer service to the 9th island at Spirit-esque fair levels not to mention vacationers to Hawaii they may not be able to swing tickets on the network carriers.

77H


Service to the 9th island? What 9th Island?
 
Rdh3e
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:03 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Service to the 9th island? What 9th Island?

Las Vegas is the "Ninth Island"
 
UALFAson
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:36 pm

77H wrote:
I have taken MSN-ORD-HNL plenty over my lifetime. However, they are not always available due to demand. Many UA flights into ORD feed the ORD-HNL flight so it is a crap shoot at times getting that flight to come up at a reasonable price. Moreover, one has to take the early morning ~0500 departure from MSN to connect to ORD-HNL. I find MSN-DEN-HNL to be a much better experience. You can get on the 0850 flight to DEN with about an hour and a half layover.


This. A lot of the second-tier Midwest cities, such as my current hometown of BNA, that even have an SFO nonstop have it operate as a turn, meaning the Midwest-SFO flight arrives too late to connect to Hawaii. Most of these cities do, however, have any early morning DEN flight.

Also, the fewer connections the ORD-HNL flight has to handle, the more nonstop ORD-HNL fares UA can offer at a higher price than connections.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
Taco2sDay
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:34 am

ORD-KOA/LIH could work seasonally for UA.

Unlike the midwest, AA has conceded ORD-Hawaii to UA. Glad to see Kirby at UA. He will go after AA. Let's see if Parker responds or gives up ORD.
 
weekendppl
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:44 am

Taco2sDay wrote:
ORD-KOA/LIH could work seasonally for UA.

Ignoring for a moment the question of whether ORD-LIH has enough demand, what aircraft that has the range to make LIH-ORD can get off the ground in the runway available at LIH? My guess is that a 757-200 would be marginal for ORD-LIH and weight marginal to get off the ground on the way back. Anybody got performance data to prove otherwise?
 
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braynfeeble
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:32 am

The Hawai'i crews are great. Once a lady f/a kept calling me "Sweet Pea" ;-) Hope they still have the silly contest to win a Hawaiian Music CD if you can guess the halfway point?
♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨* ♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*
 
Jal1975
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:47 am

weekendppl wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
ORD-KOA/LIH could work seasonally for UA.

Ignoring for a moment the question of whether ORD-LIH has enough demand, what aircraft that has the range to make LIH-ORD can get off the ground in the runway available at LIH? My guess is that a 757-200 would be marginal for ORD-LIH and weight marginal to get off the ground on the way back. Anybody got performance data to prove otherwise?


The MOM/797........ oh wait.
 
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intotheair
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:20 am

Jal1975 wrote:
weekendppl wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
ORD-KOA/LIH could work seasonally for UA.

Ignoring for a moment the question of whether ORD-LIH has enough demand, what aircraft that has the range to make LIH-ORD can get off the ground in the runway available at LIH? My guess is that a 757-200 would be marginal for ORD-LIH and weight marginal to get off the ground on the way back. Anybody got performance data to prove otherwise?


The MOM/797........ oh wait.


Hah. I suppose they could do it with 767s again. My memories of flying to Hawaii on UA (especially pre-merger) were on the domestic "ghetto bird" 763s before they turned them all into 2-class international birds. The 767 was really a perfect plane for Hawaii and a very nice ride in Y. That's also partly why EWR-HNL and IAD-HNL are on the 767— the 757 and 772As don't have the legs for those routes.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
77H
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:38 am

weekendppl wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
ORD-KOA/LIH could work seasonally for UA.

Ignoring for a moment the question of whether ORD-LIH has enough demand, what aircraft that has the range to make LIH-ORD can get off the ground in the runway available at LIH? My guess is that a 757-200 would be marginal for ORD-LIH and weight marginal to get off the ground on the way back. Anybody got performance data to prove otherwise?


Ignoring demand like you said, I imagine the 763 could make ORD-LIH. I'm not sure there is a commercial aircraft in existence that could make LIH-ORD with much more than just crew onboard. The only possible way I could see that city pair working would be ORD-LIH-HNL/KOA-ORD.

For lower demand routes like ORD-KOA/LIH UA codeshares interisland with both HA and WP. Between those two carriers you can reach nearly every airport with commercial service in Hawaii, MUE being the only exception.

77H
 
rj777
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:19 am

I think throwing in 777s with PTVs on them would go a long way, especially flying non-stop from ORD..... the domestic 777s they used are really showing their age.... and also meals too....
 
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flyPIT
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:24 am

FlyUSAir wrote:
Taken at HNL back in 2012, other than Hawaiian's presence the other carriers paled in comparison to UA.

Image



Other than Hawaiian's and JAL's. Taken in the early 2000's; there was a 7th widebody out of view to the right.
Image
FLYi
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:33 am

braynfeeble wrote:
The Hawai'i crews are great. Once a lady f/a kept calling me "Sweet Pea" ;-) Hope they still have the silly contest to win a Hawaiian Music CD if you can guess the halfway point?


no more 'halfway to hawaii'; that was ended under the smisek regime around 2013. i believe it was supposed to return in some form, but [surprise!] that never materialized.

the game costs literally nothing to the bottom line (one of the hotel partners provided the guide books that were gifted), yet it made the flight and overall paxex less mundane. hopefully it's brought back.

also - the trader vic's mai tai is awful! (not that you can drink more than a couple because the FA's hide behind the curtain for most of the trip)... UA needs to find a new mai tai vendor. pre-mixed cocktails don't have to be bad - the moscow mule by crafthouse that UA caters is superb.
 
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SQ22
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:00 am

VC10er wrote:
A year and a half ago I flew EWR-HNL-EWR on a 767-400 in BF, and it was a really, really nice flight. Between the decent meal, the IFE and flat bed, a very long flight seemed to just wiz by. I think it's smart when an airline "owns" something...and it is very true that UA has always been very much associated with Hawaii.
However, if I was king, I would have added a special touch (corny as it might be); Going to Hawaii is a special thing and should be exciting from the moment you board like Hawaiian leis, a special tropical scarf and tie for the crew and colorful napkins, ...no need to make it expensive, just add the little festivities airlines used to do back in the day. And perhaps for just once, NOT show that horrible safety video!


I flew ORD-HNL-ORD in February and they did exactly what you described. It was a very nice impression and you really got "that special feeling".
 
killeroogs
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:32 am

Hi guys,I am taking the EWR-HNL flight for the labor day weekend. I just noticed on my reservation, the aircraft on this flight is a 767-300 and not the usual 767-400 which was the aircraft which plies this route. Any reason for the this? Is NYC/NJ market really not able support the larger aircraft?
I am just asking because I took a United flight on a 767-300 earlier this year to LHR and which had an interior that was straight out 1995 with 3 inch screens. It's going to be a real shame to have spend 11 hours on an aircraft that ancient.
 
AMollenhauer9
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:37 am

killeroogs wrote:
Hi guys,I am taking the EWR-HNL flight for the labor day weekend. I just noticed on my reservation, the aircraft on this flight is a 767-300 and not the usual 767-400 which was the aircraft which plies this route. Any reason for the this? Is NYC/NJ market really not able support the larger aircraft?
I am just asking because I took a United flight on a 767-300 earlier this year to LHR and which had an interior that was straight out 1995 with 3 inch screens. It's going to be a real shame to have spend 11 hours on an aircraft that ancient.


The one you were on was a three class aircraft, which have not been updated in quite some time. United us curretly updating the remaining to two class which have much better interiors. Two class alread flies EWR-HNL, so you should be fine.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:48 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
My question now that Orange County SNA market/Economy has fully recovered would it be wise for UA to resume SNA-HNL service.
The rich OC people love there airport and hate LAX. Even with westbound weight restrictions they could probably make money in this economy.


Sadly, it probably won't happen. I've asked this question on A-net as well, as have others. The thing is, as bad the drive up to LAX is from here in South Orange County, if it means saving a few dollars we'll do it. I've even researched flights from SNA to SAN, SFO, OAK and Phoenix trying to get a cheap connecting deal to Hawaii, and no joy, so LAX it is. Then, toss in the issues with the shorter runway and while airlines certainly could make money flying SNA-Hawaii, would they make as much as if they deployed those aircraft to other routes? That's the thing. If a plane is better utilized from from SNA to someplace else than to Hawaii, where the load factors and economics will be superior, then that's where the plane will go.

Personally, I'm rooting for service from Ontario to Hawaii. ONT isn't all that much further to drive, and the traffic is usually better. Usually... As the economy recovers in the Inland empire (a painfully slow recovery in some areas, granted), there will hopefully be demand for such services, perhaps from Hawaiian when their A321s come online, or from Southwest when they finally fly to Hawaii instead of teasing us year after year after year. If they can do it, then perhaps United will also give it a look.

We Orange Countians can dream, right?

If only you guys still had El Toro... :scratchchin:
Does anyone know if the 737-7MAX can make SNA-Hawaii with a decent load?
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STT757
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:43 pm

killeroogs wrote:
Hi guys,I am taking the EWR-HNL flight for the labor day weekend. I just noticed on my reservation, the aircraft on this flight is a 767-300 and not the usual 767-400 which was the aircraft which plies this route. Any reason for the this? Is NYC/NJ market really not able support the larger aircraft?
I am just asking because I took a United flight on a 767-300 earlier this year to LHR and which had an interior that was straight out 1995 with 3 inch screens. It's going to be a real shame to have spend 11 hours on an aircraft that ancient.


The 764s are back on EWR-HNL starting in October, the reason was the 764s were moved from EWR to IAD and switched out with 763s because UA thought EWR's maintenance facilities were better suited to maintaining the older 763s which were having reliability and dispatch issues.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:17 pm

If only you guys still had El Toro...


Personally, I'm glad that we don't, but that's a discussion for another day...
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:24 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
United used to OWN Hawaii! I remember the days of seeing multiple 747's and hanging in the Red Carpet Club in HNL. With these new flights perhaps they can retain their crown.


Way back in the 60/70's when the original "Hawaii 5-0" was running, it wasn't uncommon to see UA aircraft used in the show , seemed mostly DC-8s as I recall.
 
strfyr51
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:44 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
My question now that Orange County SNA market/Economy has fully recovered would it be wise for UA to resume SNA-HNL service.
The rich OC people love there airport and hate LAX. Even with westbound weight restrictions they could probably make money in this economy.


Sadly, it probably won't happen. I've asked this question on A-net as well, as have others. The thing is, as bad the drive up to LAX is from here in South Orange County, if it means saving a few dollars we'll do it. I've even researched flights from SNA to SAN, SFO, OAK and Phoenix trying to get a cheap connecting deal to Hawaii, and no joy, so LAX it is. Then, toss in the issues with the shorter runway and while airlines certainly could make money flying SNA-Hawaii, would they make as much as if they deployed those aircraft to other routes? That's the thing. If a plane is better utilized from from SNA to someplace else than to Hawaii, where the load factors and economics will be superior, then that's where the plane will go.

Personally, I'm rooting for service from Ontario to Hawaii. ONT isn't all that much further to drive, and the traffic is usually better. Usually... As the economy recovers in the Inland empire (a painfully slow recovery in some areas, granted), there will hopefully be demand for such services, perhaps from Hawaiian when their A321s come online, or from Southwest when they finally fly to Hawaii instead of teasing us year after year after year. If they can do it, then perhaps United will also give it a look.

We Orange Countians can dream, right?

Ontario has the runway for a leg like that. Didn't UPS fly freight to Hawaii from there??
 
ytib
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:31 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
My question now that Orange County SNA market/Economy has fully recovered would it be wise for UA to resume SNA-HNL service.
The rich OC people love there airport and hate LAX. Even with westbound weight restrictions they could probably make money in this economy.


Sadly, it probably won't happen. I've asked this question on A-net as well, as have others. The thing is, as bad the drive up to LAX is from here in South Orange County, if it means saving a few dollars we'll do it. I've even researched flights from SNA to SAN, SFO, OAK and Phoenix trying to get a cheap connecting deal to Hawaii, and no joy, so LAX it is. Then, toss in the issues with the shorter runway and while airlines certainly could make money flying SNA-Hawaii, would they make as much as if they deployed those aircraft to other routes? That's the thing. If a plane is better utilized from from SNA to someplace else than to Hawaii, where the load factors and economics will be superior, then that's where the plane will go.

Personally, I'm rooting for service from Ontario to Hawaii. ONT isn't all that much further to drive, and the traffic is usually better. Usually... As the economy recovers in the Inland empire (a painfully slow recovery in some areas, granted), there will hopefully be demand for such services, perhaps from Hawaiian when their A321s come online, or from Southwest when they finally fly to Hawaii instead of teasing us year after year after year. If they can do it, then perhaps United will also give it a look.

We Orange Countians can dream, right?

Ontario has the runway for a leg like that. Didn't UPS fly freight to Hawaii from there??


Runway 8L/26R: 12197 x 150 ft. / 3718 x 46 m
Runway 8R/26L: 10200 x 150 ft. / 3109 x 46 m

Plenty enough runway, I'll let others debate the economics of the Inland Empire
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WPvsMW
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:33 am

Yes.
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:51 am

STT757 wrote:
killeroogs wrote:
Hi guys,I am taking the EWR-HNL flight for the labor day weekend. I just noticed on my reservation, the aircraft on this flight is a 767-300 and not the usual 767-400 which was the aircraft which plies this route. Any reason for the this? Is NYC/NJ market really not able support the larger aircraft?
I am just asking because I took a United flight on a 767-300 earlier this year to LHR and which had an interior that was straight out 1995 with 3 inch screens. It's going to be a real shame to have spend 11 hours on an aircraft that ancient.


The 764s are back on EWR-HNL starting in October, the reason was the 764s were moved from EWR to IAD and switched out with 763s because UA thought EWR's maintenance facilities were better suited to maintaining the older 763s which were having reliability and dispatch issues.


FWIW, my end of october EWR-HNL is still showing as a 763, even after this week's schedule update. my RPUs used to clear fairly reliably on the route with the 764's larger F cabin, but the downgauge essentially killed that terrific use of an upgrade. crossing my fingers that UA doesn't keep an 'outlier' 763 in EWR just for this route.

also - the route's flight number changes in early october. i'm pretty sure it has been UA14/15 since the merger. it'll change to 61/62. mildly annoying.
 
FX1816
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:37 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
My question now that Orange County SNA market/Economy has fully recovered would it be wise for UA to resume SNA-HNL service.
The rich OC people love there airport and hate LAX. Even with westbound weight restrictions they could probably make money in this economy.


Sadly, it probably won't happen. I've asked this question on A-net as well, as have others. The thing is, as bad the drive up to LAX is from here in South Orange County, if it means saving a few dollars we'll do it. I've even researched flights from SNA to SAN, SFO, OAK and Phoenix trying to get a cheap connecting deal to Hawaii, and no joy, so LAX it is. Then, toss in the issues with the shorter runway and while airlines certainly could make money flying SNA-Hawaii, would they make as much as if they deployed those aircraft to other routes? That's the thing. If a plane is better utilized from from SNA to someplace else than to Hawaii, where the load factors and economics will be superior, then that's where the plane will go.

Personally, I'm rooting for service from Ontario to Hawaii. ONT isn't all that much further to drive, and the traffic is usually better. Usually... As the economy recovers in the Inland empire (a painfully slow recovery in some areas, granted), there will hopefully be demand for such services, perhaps from Hawaiian when their A321s come online, or from Southwest when they finally fly to Hawaii instead of teasing us year after year after year. If they can do it, then perhaps United will also give it a look.

We Orange Countians can dream, right?

Ontario has the runway for a leg like that. Didn't UPS fly freight to Hawaii from there??


UPS still does, we have multiple flights a day to and from the islands and now FedEx has an MD-11 that comes in every morning as FDX802 from HNL and then heads out to MEM as FDX806.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:48 am

ytib wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:

Sadly, it probably won't happen. I've asked this question on A-net as well, as have others. The thing is, as bad the drive up to LAX is from here in South Orange County, if it means saving a few dollars we'll do it. I've even researched flights from SNA to SAN, SFO, OAK and Phoenix trying to get a cheap connecting deal to Hawaii, and no joy, so LAX it is. Then, toss in the issues with the shorter runway and while airlines certainly could make money flying SNA-Hawaii, would they make as much as if they deployed those aircraft to other routes? That's the thing. If a plane is better utilized from from SNA to someplace else than to Hawaii, where the load factors and economics will be superior, then that's where the plane will go.

Personally, I'm rooting for service from Ontario to Hawaii. ONT isn't all that much further to drive, and the traffic is usually better. Usually... As the economy recovers in the Inland empire (a painfully slow recovery in some areas, granted), there will hopefully be demand for such services, perhaps from Hawaiian when their A321s come online, or from Southwest when they finally fly to Hawaii instead of teasing us year after year after year. If they can do it, then perhaps United will also give it a look.

We Orange Countians can dream, right?

Ontario has the runway for a leg like that. Didn't UPS fly freight to Hawaii from there??


Runway 8L/26R: 12197 x 150 ft. / 3718 x 46 m
Runway 8R/26L: 10200 x 150 ft. / 3109 x 46 m

Plenty enough runway, I'll let others debate the economics of the Inland Empire


UA actually did fly ONT-HNL for a short time around 1978 with a DC-8. It was the same time they added SJC and OAK to HNL, which WA already flew.

If a 737-700 can fly SNA-HNL with a full load, I would assume a 737-7 Max certainly could.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:49 am

AAvgeek744 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
United used to OWN Hawaii! I remember the days of seeing multiple 747's and hanging in the Red Carpet Club in HNL. With these new flights perhaps they can retain their crown.


Way back in the 60/70's when the original "Hawaii 5-0" was running, it wasn't uncommon to see UA aircraft used in the show , seemed mostly DC-8s as I recall.


I remember seeing some reruns in the last few years, and they also featured some 747-122"s.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:13 pm

tons of UAL tails on the original Hawaii 5-0 intro too. I recall a 747 in old colors on approach flying directly overhead. It's hard to tell, but that looks like a UAL 742 or 2 partway in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR8RHBXjMlE
 
codc10
Posts: 2966
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Re: UA upping the ante in Hawaii

Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:24 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
If a 737-700 can fly SNA-HNL with a full load, I would assume a 737-7 Max certainly could.


ETOPS reserves and performance issues out of SNA routinely caused the UA SNA-HNL flight to be weight-restricted, limiting revenue on a high-cost route. It also did not capture enough of a premium to justify keeping the service against unrestricted operations and a superior schedule up the road at LAX.

The MAX7 can probably handle it, but the question remains whether the small gauge can generate enough revenue to justify operating the flight in its own right. WN is the only candidate, but have they announced plans for the 37M to be ETOPS-rated? I know they plan to have an ETOPS 38M subfleet for Hawaii, but I don't know if that will work on SNA-HNL.

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