jasoncrh
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Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:22 pm

Etihad drops San Francisco from October 2017. Not surprised. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-etiha ... SKBN1951B4
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:49 pm

Actually shocking. Winter is peak season to India. I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG? Of all the airports the laptop ban probably hurts the most its SFO. Plus the Indian diaspora there is even more skewed towards professional (that the already high national average for Indian Americans). The SFO VFR crowd would probably be alliance captive and care about FF points and can afford a bit extra $$$ for that (granted there are always bargain hunters but that does not fund an airline route). Can we also say the AI nonstop affect (who are Star w/ SFO being a Star hub)???
 
nadavatar64
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:57 pm

Not a real shocker. EY always seem pretty weak in SFO ever since they have gone down to 3 frequencies a week. Im pretty sure EK is also not what it used to be in SFO, and I guess the laptop ban contributes to that. OTOH, AI seem to be doing great in SFO.
 
TerminalD
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:00 pm

If it were EK I would be jaw dropped. EY isn't incredibly surprising, but leaving a market of that size to EK and TK is a shocker. If QR weren't in the middle of a nightmare I'd expect them to start immediately. If they were waivering on their SFO plans I'm sure this solidified them.
 
factsonly
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:03 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG?


9W already offers:
- SFO-AMS-DEL 9W8816/9W233 daily
- SFO-AMS-BOM 9W8816/9W231 daily
- SFO-CDG-BOM 9W4909/9W123 daily

and from October 2017 will add:

- SFO-AMS-BLR 9W8816/9W235 daily
- SFO-CDG-MAA 9W4909/9W129 5x/week
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:10 pm

factsonly wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG?


9W already offers:
- SFO-AMS-DEL 9W8816/9W233 daily
- SFO-AMS-BOM 9W8816/9W231 daily
- SFO-CDG-BOM 9W4909/9W123 daily

and from October 2017 will add:

- SFO-AMS-BLR 9W8816/9W235 daily
- SFO-CDG-MAA 9W4909/9W129 5x/week

Well, via codeshare with KLM/Air France. Not quite the same thing.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:11 pm

When EY started the route they operated 9W aircraft, and back then EY/9W were essentially one airline. Now times have changed, 9W is essentially SkyTeam and broken up from EY, and EY does not have as much of a case for the SFO-AUH route than before.

I do know that AI loads are still strong there, and EK (as of now) is not dropping its A380 flight to 77L. What are the chances, then, that QR's SFO-DOH plans actually come to fruition?
 
commavia
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:11 pm

Not really all that surprising. The electronics restrictions haven't helped, and I'm sure that broader geopolitical and security concerns in the Gulf have had at least some effect. But I think more broadly, the main reason for Etihad's weakness is SFO is just that the competition is extremely intense for one of the primary traffic flows - potentially the primary traffic flow - for the ME3 in the Bay Area, and that's of course to/from India. Between Emirates, Turkish, several East Asian carriers and of course the European majors, the market is very crowded - and now add the Air India nonstop on top of that. It may be that something just had to give, and Etihad was potentially the most dependent on this increasingly-competitive SFO-India traffic, and thus the weakest link.
 
voxkel
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:20 pm

Does anybody know how DFW is doing? Considering the competition with EK and QR, not to mention more VFR than business traffic on that route, I'm surprised it is still in operation with no signs of stopping.
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:26 pm

Etihad has always been the weakest player in the ME3; I think QR will not only fill that void but pursue it aggressively. AAB mentioned several times in the AJ interview from yesterday that expansion was difficult due to capacity, cutting Gulf flights will allow them to accelerate plans for new routes. I have noticed that not only A.net, but also a lot of bloggers and the media in general are under the impression that QR's restrictions will inhibit growth, but it seems that it is much more likely that routes like SFO will be accelerated forward by several months or even into the very near future. I don't think there will be any net loss of seats as QR replaces EY as QR is a stronger competitor to both EK and AI in general than EY ever was.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:36 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Actually shocking. Winter is peak season to India. I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG? Of all the airports the laptop ban probably hurts the most its SFO. Plus the Indian diaspora there is even more skewed towards professional (that the already high national average for Indian Americans). The SFO VFR crowd would probably be alliance captive and care about FF points and can afford a bit extra $$$ for that (granted there are always bargain hunters but that does not fund an airline route). Can we also say the AI nonstop affect (who are Star w/ SFO being a Star hub)???


Air India must be killing them on DEL-SFO since the forward flight began to go east. That last statement is so true. Air India should really try to buy back the 77Ls they sold to EY.
 
hohd
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:46 pm

factsonly wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG?


9W already offers:
- SFO-AMS-DEL 9W8816/9W233 daily
- SFO-AMS-BOM 9W8816/9W231 daily
- SFO-CDG-BOM 9W4909/9W123 daily

and from October 2017 will add:

- SFO-AMS-BLR 9W8816/9W235 daily
- SFO-CDG-MAA 9W4909/9W129 5x/week


EY was rumored to drop SFO anyway, one cannot sustain 3 times a week service for too long. QR may fill in the void, they have spare aircraft now as they are not flying to Saudi and Egypt.

Regarding 9W service from SFO on partner airlines, EK and AI still offer one stop service on the same airline to HYD, COK, CCU, TRV, AMD in addition to BOM, DEL, BLR and MAA. And arrival/departure timings on AI are much better from the India side. And CDG is not a passenger friendly airport during IRROPS, especially for citizens of countries which require a visa to enter France.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:57 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Actually shocking. Winter is peak season to India. I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG? Of all the airports the laptop ban probably hurts the most its SFO. Plus the Indian diaspora there is even more skewed towards professional (that the already high national average for Indian Americans). The SFO VFR crowd would probably be alliance captive and care about FF points and can afford a bit extra $$$ for that (granted there are always bargain hunters but that does not fund an airline route). Can we also say the AI nonstop affect (who are Star w/ SFO being a Star hub)???


Air India must be killing them on DEL-SFO since the forward flight began to go east. That last statement is so true. Air India should really try to buy back the 77Ls they sold to EY.


I would think the 789 would be a much better investment for AI.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:01 pm

They should move it to SJC instead. Be the ME3 pioneer at SJC instead of an afterthought at SFO...
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:06 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
They should move it to SJC instead. Be the ME3 pioneer at SJC instead of an afterthought at SFO...

That seems like an excellent idea. The only problem would be that SJC has shorter runways, so running a 77L from there may be difficult.
 
rojo
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:29 pm

That seems like an excellent idea. The only problem would be that SJC has shorter runways, so running a 77L from there may be difficult.


SJC's runways are 11,000ft (3,353m) long. EK flies FLL-DXB which should be 300+ miles shorter from FLL's 9,000ft (2,743m) runway and they don't seem to have problems (both airports are less than 64ft/20m Elevation). If flights need to take a payload hit, it might be on the Cargo side but I don't think flying the 77L out of SJC would be difficult unless there is another variable that I'm missing.
 
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sq421
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:36 pm

Irehdna wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
They should move it to SJC instead. Be the ME3 pioneer at SJC instead of an afterthought at SFO...

That seems like an excellent idea. The only problem would be that SJC has shorter runways, so running a 77L from there may be difficult.


They can always do that with a technical stop :P
 
NichCage
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:43 pm

Etihad has been making quite a lot of cuts lately and has been cutting capacity, sad to see.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:02 pm

Another thing that interests me was that EY didn't choose to operate B789 on the route. B789 has the range, and better hard product. Most importantly, however, it has lower operating costs than 77L. They could have used this to their advantage and charged lower fares than competitors.
 
c933103
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:07 pm

- Actually, while QR have lots of extra capacity by stopped flying to some other ME countries, I don't think they can really speed up their international expansion by a lot, especially that 1. those service would have to be resumed rather quickly once they are freed from restrictions and thus any expansion done at the expense of those restircted routes would have to be cut by the time if it is done with those airframes, 2. Although delay experiences bby most routes aren't long but probably they would also need some extra aircrafts to handle delays? 3. And while last time I counted they are flying 60 less frequency everyday, most of those routes are within one hour or two from DOH and thus opening a new long route already used up significant portion of those spare capacity
- I can't see how AI's service being an important factor in the decision. The time they drop the service also agree with it.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:10 pm

9w748capt wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Actually shocking. Winter is peak season to India. I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG? Of all the airports the laptop ban probably hurts the most its SFO. Plus the Indian diaspora there is even more skewed towards professional (that the already high national average for Indian Americans). The SFO VFR crowd would probably be alliance captive and care about FF points and can afford a bit extra $$$ for that (granted there are always bargain hunters but that does not fund an airline route). Can we also say the AI nonstop affect (who are Star w/ SFO being a Star hub)???


Air India must be killing them on DEL-SFO since the forward flight began to go east. That last statement is so true. Air India should really try to buy back the 77Ls they sold to EY.


I would think the 789 would be a much better investment for AI.


This is a maximum range route (even though there are advantageous headwinds going east, the route can approach 10,000 statute miles, or 8,700 nautical miles). I doubt that a 787-9 could do this service.
 
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Polot
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:18 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Air India must be killing them on DEL-SFO since the forward flight began to go east. That last statement is so true. Air India should really try to buy back the 77Ls they sold to EY.


I would think the 789 would be a much better investment for AI.


This is a maximum range route (even though there are advantageous headwinds going east, the route can approach 10,000 statute miles, or 8,700 nautical miles). I doubt that a 787-9 could do this service.

SFO-SIN on UA's 789s still spend routinely ~30+ min more time in the air than AI's SFO-DEL service, while being equipped with more seats than AI's 77Ls. Granted AI probably can carry more cargo.
 
SonaSounds
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:24 pm

EY kinda shot themselves in the foot at SFO from the get go:

    Ran almost the first two years on the Jet Airways product instead of their own, alienating some business travelers who wanted the more premium experience
    Their timings were horrible. All the other EK, TK, and QR all are/will be operating in the 12pm-5pm bank while EY flight 6am-8am.
    Had limited connection base. Because of their timings at SFO they barely made their conenction base and would constantly have to hold flights so the SFO passengers could make them
    Air India killed them. Almost entire connection base EY had timed this flight for in AUH was headed for India. Once AI came in they shut down EY.
    DFW gave EY almost 2.1m in marketing support to go from 3x weekly to daily, taking the flights from SFO. Going 3x a week against EK and TK was not working very well for them


EY averaged a 76.1% LF in 2015 and a 83.3% load in 2016 (better than LAX at 82.9% and 79.5% respectively).

Interestingly they said in the press release that the laptop/electronic ban had not hampered forward bookings but they believed there is lower hanging fruit out there.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:12 pm

Irehdna wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
They should move it to SJC instead. Be the ME3 pioneer at SJC instead of an afterthought at SFO...

That seems like an excellent idea. The only problem would be that SJC has shorter runways, so running a 77L from there may be difficult.

EY does LAX-AUH off of Rwy24L all the time, and that's a longer route from a shorter runway.

SJC would be no problem, performance-wise.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:29 pm

A rare display of competence by AI

Had they started/done more of this a decade or so ago, they could've significantly stunted the growth EY/QR in their comparatively nascent stage, if not finish one or both of them off outright (at least in the scope as global carriers).
Last edited by LAX772LR on Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
c933103
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:35 pm

Polot wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

I would think the 789 would be a much better investment for AI.


This is a maximum range route (even though there are advantageous headwinds going east, the route can approach 10,000 statute miles, or 8,700 nautical miles). I doubt that a 787-9 could do this service.

SFO-SIN on UA's 789s still spend routinely ~30+ min more time in the air than AI's SFO-DEL service, while being equipped with more seats than AI's 77Ls. Granted AI probably can carry more cargo.

I'm under an impression that SFO-SIN would be payload restricted in at least some flight of the year?
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Carp12c
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:56 pm

This is so not surprising... I knew this was going to happen the moment they reduced SFO to 3 weekly.
 
irelayer
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:14 pm

c933103 wrote:
Polot wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

This is a maximum range route (even though there are advantageous headwinds going east, the route can approach 10,000 statute miles, or 8,700 nautical miles). I doubt that a 787-9 could do this service.

SFO-SIN on UA's 789s still spend routinely ~30+ min more time in the air than AI's SFO-DEL service, while being equipped with more seats than AI's 77Ls. Granted AI probably can carry more cargo.

I'm under an impression that SFO-SIN would be payload restricted in at least some flight of the year?


There are routinely seats blocked I've been told.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:19 pm

This is the advent of Whale-hunting season ex-India. The success of AI DEL/SFO will not be lost on 9W and UK.
 
devmapper
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
A rare display of competence by AI

Had they started/done more of this a decade or so ago, they could've significantly stunted the growth EY/QR in their comparatively nascent stage, if not finish one or both of them off outright (at least in the scope as global carriers).

Even if AI had started the DEL-SFO route in 2009 (which is when it got its 77Ls), AI had terrible customer service and labor issues to contend with and would probably made a hash of it. Oil prices were higher, which means AI would probably be running major losses on the route. Plus the ME3 do pretty well in the NYC and ORD markets even though AI has had continuous daily non-stop flights to DEL in 2009. In that scenario, I think the ME3 would not only be around, but would also be pretty well-off.

I would assume that the Europe-Middle East, India-Middle East and inter-GCC markets are large enough for all three ME3 to do pretty well for themselves, irrespective of whether AI had been competent or not.
 
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sq421
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:35 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
factsonly wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I wonder if they will have 9W start SFO via AMS or CDG?


9W already offers:
- SFO-AMS-DEL 9W8816/9W233 daily
- SFO-AMS-BOM 9W8816/9W231 daily
- SFO-CDG-BOM 9W4909/9W123 daily

and from October 2017 will add:

- SFO-AMS-BLR 9W8816/9W235 daily
- SFO-CDG-MAA 9W4909/9W129 5x/week

Well, via codeshare with KLM/Air France. Not quite the same thing.


Will 9W 777 do a BOM-SFO in terms of range? I think the demand is there. Just the question of intent and feasibility.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:43 pm

I can't wait to see how some of the SFO fanboys spin this. I called it back in the winter when they announced they were dropping to 3x weekly that they would end up pulling it all together. I'll say it again - SFO is WAY over served to the ME & Sub-Continent.

SFO will also end up like LAS for QR or PTY for EK - constantly delayed or never started.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:38 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I can't wait to see how some of the SFO fanboys spin this. I called it back in the winter when they announced they were dropping to 3x weekly that they would end up pulling it all together. I'll say it again - SFO is WAY over served to the ME & Sub-Continent.

SFO will also end up like LAS for QR or PTY for EK - constantly delayed or never started.


SFO was reduced because DFW offered an incentive... International traffic at SFO is up 10% this year after a record-breaking 2016. Many of the existing flag carriers that offer sub-continent connections have added second (or third) daily flights. SFO is booming and that includes service to India. Pretty much any flight from any city to the middle east would result in an "over-served" situation since pretty much everyone is connecting! This is far more about EY missteps than SFO being over-served...
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:29 am

SFOA380 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I can't wait to see how some of the SFO fanboys spin this. I called it back in the winter when they announced they were dropping to 3x weekly that they would end up pulling it all together. I'll say it again - SFO is WAY over served to the ME & Sub-Continent.

SFO will also end up like LAS for QR or PTY for EK - constantly delayed or never started.


SFO was reduced because DFW offered an incentive... International traffic at SFO is up 10% this year after a record-breaking 2016. Many of the existing flag carriers that offer sub-continent connections have added second (or third) daily flights. SFO is booming and that includes service to India. Pretty much any flight from any city to the middle east would result in an "over-served" situation since pretty much everyone is connecting! This is far more about EY missteps than SFO being over-served...


Man, that's is the most apologist sounding post of the thread so far. This reeks of how some SFO reacted when WF left. All the bemoaning of how DFW would fail and how QF would regret it. Well it's years later and QF is hugely successful at DFW and it is definitely a more important market to them than SFO thanks to the AA hub.

SFO is being dropped for the following reasons.

1) EY funnels a great amount through the DFW hub to AA. Something SFO cant offer.
2) AI is currently eating their lunch at SFO.
3) SFO is currently overserved. DFW is too but it has a mega hub to fall back on.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:36 am

To those who said QR will quickly expand new routes like SFO, I think its really tough for them to do this. Aside from he very valid point that they are not giving up on restarting their GCC routes just yet, routes that depend heavily on India traffic won't launch. The simple fact is that, QR has maxed out its India seats. So a new route like SFO would mean other routes would have to give up their India feed. QR is basically stuck unless India opens up more seats. I can't see that happening given the Indian side still has a ton of unused seats and finally Indian airlines are expanding.
 
babastud
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:57 am

A little history goes that Ethiad never got off to a great start at SFO when it started, and never as a route lived up to the expectations. Much of this was due to Ethiad flying a "jet airways" plane, and little advertising. By the time Ethiad got to upgrading their plane, the competition had increased and there where many more options to the ME and India. That being said, I do not agree SFO is overserved, Give me a Break! Rather it had little feed and alliance strength. Plus Ethiad never was very popular with even Indian Based travelers? It just didn't come together. I would not be surprised if at some point they decide to re-enter the market, or if the Situation in Qatar calms down and they jump into SFO, they may have a good chance at making it work. With the political Situation in ME/GULF, Laptops, etc. There are many reasons, and I'm sure the ME airlines may be feeling the pinch at more then just SFO, we could see many more places being reduced or cut including LAX and NYC, and it's not because a lack of demand!
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:51 am

SFOA380 wrote:
SFO was reduced because DFW offered an incentive... International traffic at SFO is up 10% this year after a record-breaking 2016. Many of the existing flag carriers that offer sub-continent connections have added second (or third) daily flights. SFO is booming and that includes service to India. Pretty much any flight from any city to the middle east would result in an "over-served" situation since pretty much everyone is connecting! This is far more about EY missteps than SFO being over-served...


babastud wrote:
A little history goes that Ethiad never got off to a great start at SFO when it started, and never as a route lived up to the expectations. Much of this was due to Ethiad flying a "jet airways" plane, and little advertising. By the time Ethiad got to upgrading their plane, the competition had increased and there where many more options to the ME and India. That being said, I do not agree SFO is overserved, Give me a Break! Rather it had little feed and alliance strength. Plus Ethiad never was very popular with even Indian Based travelers? It just didn't come together. I would not be surprised if at some point they decide to re-enter the market, or if the Situation in Qatar calms down and they jump into SFO, they may have a good chance at making it work. With the political Situation in ME/GULF, Laptops, etc. There are many reasons, and I'm sure the ME airlines may be feeling the pinch at more then just SFO, we could see many more places being reduced or cut including LAX and NYC, and it's not because a lack of demand!


And here we go, here come the excuses:

1). Missteps by EY
2). Using a 9W plane (Funny, they used a 9W plane to both JFK for a LONG time and ORD as well I believe)
3). Didn't advertise

Blah, blah, blah, enough already. It's just astonishing how some were ADAMANT SFO would be back to daily flights on EY come October.
 
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legacyins
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Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:01 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
SFO was reduced because DFW offered an incentive... International traffic at SFO is up 10% this year after a record-breaking 2016. Many of the existing flag carriers that offer sub-continent connections have added second (or third) daily flights. SFO is booming and that includes service to India. Pretty much any flight from any city to the middle east would result in an "over-served" situation since pretty much everyone is connecting! This is far more about EY missteps than SFO being over-served...


babastud wrote:
A little history goes that Ethiad never got off to a great start at SFO when it started, and never as a route lived up to the expectations. Much of this was due to Ethiad flying a "jet airways" plane, and little advertising. By the time Ethiad got to upgrading their plane, the competition had increased and there where many more options to the ME and India. That being said, I do not agree SFO is overserved, Give me a Break! Rather it had little feed and alliance strength. Plus Ethiad never was very popular with even Indian Based travelers? It just didn't come together. I would not be surprised if at some point they decide to re-enter the market, or if the Situation in Qatar calms down and they jump into SFO, they may have a good chance at making it work. With the political Situation in ME/GULF, Laptops, etc. There are many reasons, and I'm sure the ME airlines may be feeling the pinch at more then just SFO, we could see many more places being reduced or cut including LAX and NYC, and it's not because a lack of demand!


And here we go, here come the excuses:

1). Missteps by EY
2). Using at 9W plane
3). Didn't advertise

Blah, blah, blah, enough already. It's just astonishing how some were ADAMANT SFO would be back to daily flights on EY come October.


Come on dude, troll somewhere else. Like I stated in my last post, I got my info from the EY station manager at SFO. He told me today he was only told last week of this decision and was disappointed they did not follow through with their plans.

The ME 3 are going through challenging times on their NA routes. EY was not as aggressive as EK and QR. AI did have an impact on them at SFO as upwards of 70% of their passengers were transiting through to India.I would have thought AUH had the benefit of having Pre Clearance.
 
PEK777
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:03 am

Shut er down, boys!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5918
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:56 am

legacyins wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
SFO was reduced because DFW offered an incentive... International traffic at SFO is up 10% this year after a record-breaking 2016. Many of the existing flag carriers that offer sub-continent connections have added second (or third) daily flights. SFO is booming and that includes service to India. Pretty much any flight from any city to the middle east would result in an "over-served" situation since pretty much everyone is connecting! This is far more about EY missteps than SFO being over-served...


babastud wrote:
A little history goes that Ethiad never got off to a great start at SFO when it started, and never as a route lived up to the expectations. Much of this was due to Ethiad flying a "jet airways" plane, and little advertising. By the time Ethiad got to upgrading their plane, the competition had increased and there where many more options to the ME and India. That being said, I do not agree SFO is overserved, Give me a Break! Rather it had little feed and alliance strength. Plus Ethiad never was very popular with even Indian Based travelers? It just didn't come together. I would not be surprised if at some point they decide to re-enter the market, or if the Situation in Qatar calms down and they jump into SFO, they may have a good chance at making it work. With the political Situation in ME/GULF, Laptops, etc. There are many reasons, and I'm sure the ME airlines may be feeling the pinch at more then just SFO, we could see many more places being reduced or cut including LAX and NYC, and it's not because a lack of demand!


And here we go, here come the excuses:

1). Missteps by EY
2). Using at 9W plane
3). Didn't advertise

Blah, blah, blah, enough already. It's just astonishing how some were ADAMANT SFO would be back to daily flights on EY come October.

Come on dude, troll somewhere else. Like I stated in my last post, I got my info from the EY station manager at SFO. He told me today he was only told last week of this decision and was disappointed they did not follow through with their plans.

The ME 3 are going through challenging times on their NA routes. EY was not as aggressive as EK and QR. AI did have an impact on them at SFO as upwards of 70% of their passengers were transiting through to India.I would have thought AUH had the benefit of having Pre Clearance.


You're explication sounds much more level head than the ones he was quoting though. They sound like apologists making excuses. Every airline can't be everything to everyone. And yes, it is certainly possible that even a global city like San Francisco can be overserved.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
vikramv1
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:16 am

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:13 am

I think Laptop Ban Plus AI DEL-SFO hurt EY the most. Plus 9W successful at their AMS Hub is hurting not only EY but the ME3 as a whole. EK has already reduced flights in NA. Wont be surprised to see more cuts by the ME3 to NA and Europe as well.

AI and 9W need to take advantage and increase their ops to Europe and NA now...
 
airzona11
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:48 am

vikramv1 wrote:
I think Laptop Ban Plus AI DEL-SFO hurt EY the most. Plus 9W successful at their AMS Hub is hurting not only EY but the ME3 as a whole. EK has already reduced flights in NA. Wont be surprised to see more cuts by the ME3 to NA and Europe as well.

AI and 9W need to take advantage and increase their ops to Europe and NA now...


If these routes are so dependent on connections, EY just simply lacks connection options. There is minimal O/D to support the route. Premium traffic is going to be more put off by less than daily frequency vs laptop ban. The people flying in Y I cant imagine are booking based off the laptop ban. If price is always the biggest factor and onboard product doesn't matter as much, Laptop ban is far over hyped. Kayak and search engines are not telling me I have to check my laptop.

I think a bigger reason that is downplayed but the ME3 crowd is that others have caught up and adapted to the ME3. The advantage of the ME3 with their connecting hubs is countered by other hubs in Metros with more O/D or partner connections. Next gen airplanes, reconfigured planes, re-banked hubs, new partnerships etc have increased non-ME3 competitiveness.

It is always cyclical, there is no reason to think the ME3s growth was going to continue in a perpetual up slope. There will be pull backs. No doubt the longest (most expensive) to operate flights will be cut first.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3237
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:14 am

SonaSounds wrote:

EY averaged a 76.1% LF in 2015 and a 83.3% load in 2016 (better than LAX at 82.9% and 79.5% respectively).



It's about yield, not load factors. Obviously the yield from LAX must be better than SFO if EY is keeping LAX (for now) and axing SFO.
 
manny
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:28 am

Is it fair to say Air India is soundly beating ME3 airlines.
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1135
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:10 am

Too bad Etihad and its ilk rely on one country (not their own) to make their long-haul flights work. If even AI are sweeping you off the table, you just have to wonder...
Vahroone
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:45 am

legacyins wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
SFO was reduced because DFW offered an incentive... International traffic at SFO is up 10% this year after a record-breaking 2016. Many of the existing flag carriers that offer sub-continent connections have added second (or third) daily flights. SFO is booming and that includes service to India. Pretty much any flight from any city to the middle east would result in an "over-served" situation since pretty much everyone is connecting! This is far more about EY missteps than SFO being over-served...


babastud wrote:
A little history goes that Ethiad never got off to a great start at SFO when it started, and never as a route lived up to the expectations. Much of this was due to Ethiad flying a "jet airways" plane, and little advertising. By the time Ethiad got to upgrading their plane, the competition had increased and there where many more options to the ME and India. That being said, I do not agree SFO is overserved, Give me a Break! Rather it had little feed and alliance strength. Plus Ethiad never was very popular with even Indian Based travelers? It just didn't come together. I would not be surprised if at some point they decide to re-enter the market, or if the Situation in Qatar calms down and they jump into SFO, they may have a good chance at making it work. With the political Situation in ME/GULF, Laptops, etc. There are many reasons, and I'm sure the ME airlines may be feeling the pinch at more then just SFO, we could see many more places being reduced or cut including LAX and NYC, and it's not because a lack of demand!


And here we go, here come the excuses:

1). Missteps by EY
2). Using at 9W plane
3). Didn't advertise

Blah, blah, blah, enough already. It's just astonishing how some were ADAMANT SFO would be back to daily flights on EY come October.


Come on dude, troll somewhere else. Like I stated in my last post, I got my info from the EY station manager at SFO. He told me today he was only told last week of this decision and was disappointed they did not follow through with their plans.

The ME 3 are going through challenging times on their NA routes. EY was not as aggressive as EK and QR. AI did have an impact on them at SFO as upwards of 70% of their passengers were transiting through to India.I would have thought AUH had the benefit of having Pre Clearance.


legacyins you go troll somewhere else. You've been the one coming on these posts spouting off inaccurate info about how you're so in the know and adamant that EY would be back to daily at SFO in Oct. It always amazes me the biggest trolls attack others and call them trolls. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Cause now it's shattering all around you.

And for the record - QR starting SFO is a pipe dream.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7320
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:40 pm

I don't think electronics ban is a major factor because the US can expand that to all flights anytime.

IMHO System-wide over capacity and own financial situation are two major factors.

Indians are masters of appeasement if they think Trump doesn't like the middle east, they will interpret that as they will be denied entry if they choose the wrong airline, even though US CBP operates based on written laws. Entry into the USA takes precedence over cheap fares and/or better service.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:15 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
legacyins wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:



And here we go, here come the excuses:

1). Missteps by EY
2). Using at 9W plane
3). Didn't advertise

Blah, blah, blah, enough already. It's just astonishing how some were ADAMANT SFO would be back to daily flights on EY come October.


Come on dude, troll somewhere else. Like I stated in my last post, I got my info from the EY station manager at SFO. He told me today he was only told last week of this decision and was disappointed they did not follow through with their plans.

The ME 3 are going through challenging times on their NA routes. EY was not as aggressive as EK and QR. AI did have an impact on them at SFO as upwards of 70% of their passengers were transiting through to India.I would have thought AUH had the benefit of having Pre Clearance.


legacyins you go troll somewhere else. You've been the one coming on these posts spouting off inaccurate info about how you're so in the know and adamant that EY would be back to daily at SFO in Oct. It always amazes me the biggest trolls attack others and call them trolls. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Cause now it's shattering all around you.

And for the record - QR starting SFO is a pipe dream.


Come on snowflake, don't get your panties in a bunch. Like most of the information on this site, it is second party information. Things change in the airline industry constantly and flights come and go. I was ADAMANT about nothing regarding EY at SFO, just passing on info.

We will see about QR but you are so ADAMANT that it will not start service so it must be true. Especially your assertion that not one passenger will fly on their aircraft if they do launch,really.
 
waly777
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:11 pm

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:01 pm

[list=][/list]
manny wrote:
Is it fair to say Air India is soundly beating ME3 airlines.


A good chunk of high yielding / time sensitive traffic from SFO to India is with the tech industry and I believe the flight continues to BLR. The time savings the AI flight offers vs the one stop in AUH or DXB makes a massive difference for those customers despite AI being able to charge a decent premium with lower product quality. What's left are the lower yielding traffic with quite a few airlines to fight for the OD market.

Well run airlines will cut routes not meeting profitability standards and deploy assets to better serve the network.

So yes, on DEL to SFO... AI is indeed winning, for the other interational routes however, this is certainly not the case.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Etihad drops San Francisco

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:36 pm

waly777 wrote:
[list=][/list]
manny wrote:
Is it fair to say Air India is soundly beating ME3 airlines.


A good chunk of high yielding / time sensitive traffic from SFO to India is with the tech industry and I believe the flight continues to BLR. The time savings the AI flight offers vs the one stop in AUH or DXB makes a massive difference for those customers despite AI being able to charge a decent premium with lower product quality. What's left are the lower yielding traffic with quite a few airlines to fight for the OD market.

Well run airlines will cut routes not meeting profitability standards and deploy assets to better serve the network.

So yes, on DEL to SFO... AI is indeed winning, for the other interational routes however, this is certainly not the case.


A lot of tech traffic also goes to the DEL area and to be honest other places aside from even BLR (HYD, MAA, Pune). That is why the AI's DEL hub is working. With US origin pax probably caring about their miles and status miles (which is very hard to get on AA while flying EY), and Indian origin pax favoring 9W, AI or even EK; what was left for EY to have? Also, as people mentioned above, 9W is seeing success with their EU routings to NA. You can basically fly Skyteam/9W/VS from India via Europe and pretty much get their best products (meaning lie flat). There was a time when AF, KL, DL all flew their old aircraft with angle flat to India. I really give them credit for upping their game in India. Add the laptop ban, and I can see techies from SFO avoiding EY. Oh and to the poster that said Y pax don't know about the laptop ban, even my mom knew and said she was not checking her IPAD. While she is well traveled and very American, the Indian in her still remembers people stealing from checked luggage (and I think Indians in general (be they from India or America) are probably much more scared of this than the average American pax).

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