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ltbewr
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UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:04 pm

On Tuesday evening 6/13 Flight UA 170 EWR-Venice, Italy had a leak of fuel from near the tip of the port wing on the taxiway prior to takeoff. This article has pictures and a link to a video of the leak. One of the comments on the article suggested that perhaps a vent wasn't properly secured. I would note that last night the temperatures were in the upper 80's F so I wonder if that contributed to this release of fuel. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/0 ... e-featured
 
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Moose135
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:54 pm

Many aircraft have fuel vents near the wing tips, and if the tanks were full (or close to full), and the fuel expanded from the higher temperatures, you can get some spillage out the vent. It's not really a "fuel leak", just some venting, but I can see why they would want to check it out, and have airport ops deal with the spilled fuel. You will occasionally see some fuel coming out the vent on takeoff under similar conditions.
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wjcandee
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VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:15 pm

Pretty impressive video of jet fuel pouring from wing on UA 170. The 767-300 was to depart Tuesday to VCE from EWR.

Window seat pax tell a tale to the NY Post of how the FAs were yelling at them to "sit down" and that "everything was normal" when they tried to point out the problem. They persisted and got the cockpit notified, whereupon ARFF was called and flight was cancelled.

UA, according to them, didn't treat 'em right, so they posted the video and started talking to the media.

Heroes-turned-whiners. Interesting that neither crew nor ground staff in adjacent van appear to have noticed the issue.

Anyway, fun video. Glad nobody was smoking on the tarmac. http://nypost.com/2017/06/14/united-fli ... shing-out/
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:23 pm

Why exactly weren't they offered overnight accommodation? I'm quite confused by United's attitude towards basic customer service.
 
KLDC10
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:26 pm

Being told to "sit down" and that "everything is fine" was undoubtedly insulting. All the FAs had to do was look out of the window to check for themselves. When they did, they saw clearly what was happening. Even if these things turn out to be nothing, it is far better for the FAs to just go check it out than for passengers to feel like they can't speak up if they see something wrong.
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bennett123
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:47 pm

What did the folk in the white van do throughout this incident.
 
jumbojet
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:50 pm

and people call me a troll for continuing to throw UA under the boss. Folks, the culture at UA hasn't changed and likely never will. I can't wait to hear what OM says about this. My favorite line from the article...


[quote]After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room. .[quote]
Last edited by jumbojet on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:53 pm

"SIt down, everything's fine" is a lot better bit of advice than "everybody panic, we're all going to die!"
 
ual777
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:00 pm

jumbojet wrote:
and people call me a troll for continuing to throw UA under the boss. Folks, the culture at UA hasn't changed and likely never will. I can't wait to hear what OM says about this. My favorite line from the article...


After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room. .


There has to be more to the story. That's not UA SOP at all, and the article even states other passengers got hotel vouchers. The article is also very sensationalistic IMO.

It looks like fuel may have been venting from being overfueled...that or the check valve itself somehow broke. From the looks of the video, the aircraft hadn't even gotten off of ramp controlled tarmac yet.

EDIT: Temperature was around 98 degrees yesterday. May have also caused fuel to expand in the tanks and lead to it venting overboard.
Last edited by ual777 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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SonomaFlyer
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:01 pm

UA is sitting on 6+billion in liquidity. It is time to make some investments in their people. This means training them on steps they should take when something like this happens. The airline also needs to provide the resources for things like food and hotel vouchers and they should have a dedicated team at their hub to address re-accommodation when needed.

All UA needs to do is look to other carriers which include theirs in the Star Alliance. It's not rocket science but the optics of leaving a honeymooning couple to sleep on the floor of baggage claim due to a mechanical cancellation is bad.
 
ITB
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:20 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
UA is sitting on 6+billion in liquidity. It is time to make some investments in their people. This means training them on steps they should take when something like this happens. The airline also needs to provide the resources for things like food and hotel vouchers and they should have a dedicated team at their hub to address re-accommodation when needed.

All UA needs to do is look to other carriers which include theirs in the Star Alliance. It's not rocket science but the optics of leaving a honeymooning couple to sleep on the floor of baggage claim due to a mechanical cancellation is bad.


Unfortunately, the pressure from the Wall Street people to maintain and boost the stock price permeates the culture of most companies nowadays. UA is no exception. The more money spent on employees, training, new planes, etc., the more the disapproval from Wall Street.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:24 pm

Wow, according to the majority of the passengers interviewed, the crew was oblivious and indifferent to the warnings and pleas of the passengers. I wonder what would happen if they lost something vital in flight! Will the FAs shun or shoo away the passenger trying to get their attention? Scary.

jumbojet wrote:
and people call me a troll for continuing to throw UA under the boss. Folks, the culture at UA hasn't changed and likely never will. I can't wait to hear what OM says about this. My favorite line from the article...

After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room. .


I'll always throw UA under the bus. Never again will I give them the benefit of the doubt. And if that makes me a "troll" to some of these UA lovers, so be it.

A happy ending to the story though! Just as UA delivers their signature "Screw You" to the honeymoon couple, kindness saves the day! :cloudnine: Faith in humanity restored this time.
Last edited by Boeing778X on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
LHUSA
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:27 pm

An extremely sensationalized account no doubt. Why would UA provide hotel vouchers to some, but not others? A lot in this 'article' does not add up.

If they can't even get the expression "tickle the ivories" correct (calling it tinkle the ivories), I doubt many of the details are actual fact.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:40 pm

Does anyone here really think the Flight Deck didn't know about the fuel leak before the passengers? Jumping around causing a riot because you think you know more than the crew is not the way to act. Then calling yourself a hero because you pointed it out? Come on.....The FAs are just trying to keep everyone calm while the professionals in the front of the aircraft are dealing with the issue. That aircraft was no where near taking off. It wasn't even off the ramp. When you are dumping that much fuel out of your wing the rampers, ramp tower, control tower, other aircraft etc. will all let you know. A Flight Attendant calling the Flight deck is welcome if the information is pertinent as in "hey all that fuel is on fire" or "hey there is a riot in the back of the jet". Otherwise the pilots need to be left alone to deal with the situation without distraction.

There are very little facts from this sensationalist article. Planes break its a fact of life.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:41 pm

LHUSA wrote:
An extremely sensationalized account no doubt. Why would UA provide hotel vouchers to some, but not others? A lot in this 'article' does not add up.

If they can't even get the expression "tickle the ivories" correct (calling it tinkle the ivories), I doubt many of the details are actual fact.



I agree alot of bad facts here. Another click bait article.
 
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kanban
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:51 pm

years ago I was on a 737 headed to Salt Lake City and noticed the bolts holding the thumbnail fairing on the engine strut were working their way out and departing the aircraft.. mentioned it to a Flight Attendant who explained that was normal.. I mentioned I worked on the 737 production line and it was definitely not normal.. she said she would pass it along to the Captain. When we landed, she bolted the aircraft ahead of the passengers. As I was leaving I asked the Captain if she had mentioned the bolt issue.. he was dumbfounded and asked me to point out which engine, then called for a maintenance guy to get over and look.. he confirmed what I has seen, then they gave me a ride across the tarmac to my connecting flight which had been held for me.

punchline: it was United
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:10 am

kanban wrote:
years ago I was on a 737 headed to Salt Lake City and noticed the bolts holding the thumbnail fairing on the engine strut were working their way out and departing the aircraft.. mentioned it to a Flight Attendant who explained that was normal.. I mentioned I worked on the 737 production line and it was definitely not normal.. she said she would pass it along to the Captain. When we landed, she bolted the aircraft ahead of the passengers. As I was leaving I asked the Captain if she had mentioned the bolt issue.. he was dumbfounded and asked me to point out which engine, then called for a maintenance guy to get over and look.. he confirmed what I has seen, then they gave me a ride across the tarmac to my connecting flight which had been held for me.

punchline: it was United


This as a Captain is information I appreciate. Thank you sir good work.
 
jumbojet
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:18 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
. Planes break its a fact of life.


no one will argue that fact but you are missing the big picture here and that is the way UA handled the customer service aspect of this incident. Once again, UA drops the ball and fails to show us that they are capable of change. It has been demonstrated time and time again that UA only seems to care when something is going to press.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:20 am

jumbojet wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
. Planes break its a fact of life.


no one will argue that fact but you are missing the big picture here and that is the way UA handled the customer service aspect of this incident. Once again, UA drops the ball and fails to show us that they are capable of change. It has been demonstrated time and time again that UA only seems to care when something is going to press.


Yeah if you take every word of The NY Times article as fact. The article seems like a stretch
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:28 am

Moose135 wrote:
Many aircraft have fuel vents near the wing tips, and if the tanks were full (or close to full), and the fuel expanded from the higher temperatures, you can get some spillage out the vent. It's not really a "fuel leak", just some venting, but I can see why they would want to check it out, and have airport ops deal with the spilled fuel. You will occasionally see some fuel coming out the vent on takeoff under similar conditions.


It was over 90 degrees yesterday in New York. That leak looks like it is directly under the surge tank where fuel vents. The underground fuel storage tends to be much cooler than ambient air at 90 degrees. Fuel expands. This seems like more than normal and not from an unusual place. The quantity seems high.

Given that the flight was cancelled, there may have been a problem with the surge tank where the pressure relief valve would not close once it opened. That is my guess.
 
United1
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:28 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
. Planes break its a fact of life.


no one will argue that fact but you are missing the big picture here and that is the way UA handled the customer service aspect of this incident. Once again, UA drops the ball and fails to show us that they are capable of change. It has been demonstrated time and time again that UA only seems to care when something is going to press.


Yeah if you take every word of The NY Times article as fact. The article seems like a stretch


That's not even the Times that's the Post....they are known for being sensationalist and have very little credibility with anyone who doesn't wear leopard printed leggings and live in Brooklyn/Queens. :)

From UA....."Passengers were put in a hotel and United will attempt to re-book them on a flight Wednesday, United said in a statement. United described the incident as a "fuel leak," but didn't mention where the leak originated. "

As others have mentioned it looks like the surge tanks leaked...that has happened before and will happen again.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jayunited
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:32 am

jumbojet wrote:
and people call me a troll for continuing to throw UA under the boss. Folks, the culture at UA hasn't changed and likely never will. I can't wait to hear what OM says about this. My favorite line from the article...


After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room. .


So there were 188 passengers on that flight yesterday and United gave every other passenger a hotel but not them that sound a little strange. They claim another passenger spots them on the floor of baggage claim at 7:30am and offers them their room? Really all passenger were rebooked Tuesday night why show up in baggage claim 7:30am when the next flight to VCE doesn't leave till Wednesday evening? The next flight to VCE didn't leave till 6:55pm who shows up at baggage claim at 7:30 in the morning to just walk around baggage claim. This story had credibility until they decided to embellish and add things that any person who has spent any time in aviation can see through.

According to the internal report the aircraft had just begun taxiing but wasn't yet in line for the runway when the fuel leak began. The passenger alerted the FA's but only stated they needed help the an FA told them to sit back down which is standard procedure when on an active taxiway it wasn't until another passenger alert the FA that liquid was coming from the wings that the FA's alerted the flight deck to the problem. According to internal reports all passenger were offered food vouchers and all passengers were offer hotels accommodations for the night. Most passenger were rebooked on Wednesday evening flights on both UA and DL.

The truth is a lot more boring so to get their story in the New York post these people told part truth and part lie. If they had slept on the floor in baggage claim they most certainly would have filmed that on their cell phone as well. It is strange no other passenger has come forward to back up their claim that they were mistreated onboard then denied a hotel room or left to sleep on the floor of baggage claim. According to the article a passenger gave them their hotel room at 7:30am the next day and then yet another passenger rented them a limo to take them from EWR to JFK. All of these people came to their aide and yet none of them have corroborated their story. Had they just stuck with the facts their story probably would have never made headlines.
Last edited by jayunited on Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:34 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Does anyone here really think the Flight Deck didn't know about the fuel leak before the passengers? Jumping around causing a riot because you think you know more than the crew is not the way to act. Then calling yourself a hero because you pointed it out? Come on.....The FAs are just trying to keep everyone calm while the professionals in the front of the aircraft are dealing with the issue. That aircraft was no where near taking off. It wasn't even off the ramp. When you are dumping that much fuel out of your wing the rampers, ramp tower, control tower, other aircraft etc. will all let you know. A Flight Attendant calling the Flight deck is welcome if the information is pertinent as in "hey all that fuel is on fire" or "hey there is a riot in the back of the jet". Otherwise the pilots need to be left alone to deal with the situation without distraction.

There are very little facts from this sensationalist article. Planes break its a fact of life.


I agree the article is totally sensationalistic.

However the flight crew may not immediately know. There is no immediate indication in the flight deck of a fuel leak. It would be difficult to see the fuel leak from the flight deck. Undoubtedly someone would have noticed, but the article is ridiculous calling this couple heroes:

After that, the staff had a change of heart, she says — the stewardesses who’d dismissed Mike came by to thank him, and the couple were invited into the cockpit where they were given a glass of champagne and showed the pilot’s footage they’d taken of the fuel fountain....

After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:44 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Does anyone here really think the Flight Deck didn't know about the fuel leak before the passengers? Jumping around causing a riot because you think you know more than the crew is not the way to act. Then calling yourself a hero because you pointed it out? Come on.....The FAs are just trying to keep everyone calm while the professionals in the front of the aircraft are dealing with the issue. That aircraft was no where near taking off. It wasn't even off the ramp. When you are dumping that much fuel out of your wing the rampers, ramp tower, control tower, other aircraft etc. will all let you know. A Flight Attendant calling the Flight deck is welcome if the information is pertinent as in "hey all that fuel is on fire" or "hey there is a riot in the back of the jet". Otherwise the pilots need to be left alone to deal with the situation without distraction.

There are very little facts from this sensationalist article. Planes break its a fact of life.


I agree the article is totally sensationalistic.

However the flight crew may not immediately know. There is no immediate indication in the flight deck of a fuel leak. It would be difficult to see the fuel leak from the flight deck. Undoubtedly someone would have noticed, but the article is ridiculous calling this couple heroes:

After that, the staff had a change of heart, she says — the stewardesses who’d dismissed Mike came by to thank him, and the couple were invited into the cockpit where they were given a glass of champagne and showed the pilot’s footage they’d taken of the fuel fountain....

After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room.


Agree there is no immediate indication but when you got that much fuel coming out on the ramp someone has told you.
 
wjcandee
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:57 am

CriticalPoint -- isn't the reason for CRM that the Captain doesn't always see or know everything?

Yes, you have doubtless dealt with a zillion nonsense concerns and alerts from pax.

But wouldn't the guys who died on, say, Comair 5191 have benefited from somebody who knew the airport (like the deadheading pilots) speaking up instead of just assuming that the guys in the pointy end were omniscient. My uncle who was a WW2 bomber pilot and a careerlong Eastern pilot/captain after that used to stress to me the importance of not assuming anything, pointedly that you can't assume that the ground crew or tower or whomever is going to notice something and let you know.

I thought the Omniscient Captain model was retired a couple of decades ago in favor of one who was to receive and acknowledge inputs from a variety of sources, even nonconventional ones.

Well, not everywhere; Korean Air took a little longer to get with the program, didn't it?

And as to the folks who say, "Hey, no big deal, just some stuff venting overboard from the heat," while that stuff ain't as volatile as AVGAS, it gets pretty volatile in near-100-degree-heat when it's being griddled on the tarmac, and, if ignited, tends to burn pretty-rapidly and pretty-completely. It wasn't a safe situation, by any means.

In light of that, I personally think that it's shortsighted and frankly perilous of CritcalPoint to say that the passengers should just shut up, and that, more importantly, the F/As were right to NOT notify the pilots that there's what looks like 50-100 gallons of Jet A nicely-distributed under the left wing. You assume they knew. Maybe you're right. But what if they didn't know?
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:32 am

wjcandee wrote:
CriticalPoint -- isn't the reason for CRM that the Captain doesn't always see or know everything?

Yes, you have doubtless dealt with a zillion nonsense concerns and alerts from pax.

But wouldn't the guys who died on, say, Comair 5191 have benefited from somebody who knew the airport (like the deadheading pilots) speaking up instead of just assuming that the guys in the pointy end were omniscient. My uncle who was a WW2 bomber pilot and a careerlong Eastern pilot/captain after that used to stress to me the importance of not assuming anything, pointedly that you can't assume that the ground crew or tower or whomever is going to notice something and let you know.

I thought the Omniscient Captain model was retired a couple of decades ago in favor of one who was to receive and acknowledge inputs from a variety of sources, even nonconventional ones.

Well, not everywhere; Korean Air took a little longer to get with the program, didn't it?

And as to the folks who say, "Hey, no big deal, just some stuff venting overboard from the heat," while that stuff ain't as volatile as AVGAS, it gets pretty volatile in near-100-degree-heat when it's being griddled on the tarmac, and, if ignited, tends to burn pretty-rapidly and pretty-completely. It wasn't a safe situation, by any means.

In light of that, I personally think that it's shortsighted and frankly perilous of CritcalPoint to say that the passengers should just shut up, and that, more importantly, the F/As were right to NOT notify the pilots that there's what looks like 50-100 gallons of Jet A nicely-distributed under the left wing. You assume they knew. Maybe you're right. But what if they didn't know?


Your point is not lost on me WJC. CRM is extremely important and we train to involve the Flight Attendants in assessing most emergencies. However CRM stands for Crew Resource Managment. Emphasis on Crew. We are professionals that are highly trained. The passengers are not. ComAir could not have been stopped by the DHing pilot as I'm sure he didn't know they were on the wrong runway either. If you look at the airport diagram for Lexington all the runways come together in the same spot.

I have had a passenger in tears because they thought I was going to hit a BA 747 while shooting a parallel approach in ORD.

I had a passenger dress me down in front of a plane full of passengers because I told him we were not going to get De-iced because he insisted I should. He was convinced the condensation he saw on the fuel cell was ice. I couldn't convince him that ice doesn't form above 60 degrees.

Let the professionals do their job. This aircraft hadnt even moved under its own power yet.
 
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bdc767
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:13 am

Unfortunate event.
Not a Social Injustice.
Fuel vented on to the ramp...Bad
Passengers noticed it.....Good
Flight Cancelled.....Bad
Passengers inconvenienced...Bad
Passengers put up in local hotels to be re-booked.... Normal
Certain passengers turning this in to a "Anti United Rant"..... Bad
Their story has many inconsistancies.
The statement "I'm never flying United again!!" .... Typical of any airline passenger who is inconvenienced.
United might have a problem with it's Public Relations but it runs a solid airline, worldwide and with an unmatched safety record.
Unfortunately United is a little behind the times in how they handle the Social Media negativity. Almost all of the anti United rants are either misunderstood or not factual in their reporting.
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:51 am

This also impacted the operations of the airport pretty heavily. My flight landed at EWR as this happened and it took 1.5 hours to get to the gate after we landed. There was a ground stop plus a ton of the TATL flights waiting to go that got priority over us. Total mess.
 
d8s
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:16 am

jumbojet wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
. Planes break its a fact of life.


no one will argue that fact but you are missing the big picture here and that is the way UA handled the customer service aspect of this incident. Once again, UA drops the ball and fails to show us that they are capable of change. It has been demonstrated time and time again that UA only seems to care when something is going to press.


Were you on the flight? I thought not...you have no idea how things were "handled"...so save your soap box or start a new Delta thread.
 
seat1a
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:34 am

ITB wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
UA is sitting on 6+billion in liquidity. It is time to make some investments in their people. This means training them on steps they should take when something like this happens. The airline also needs to provide the resources for things like food and hotel vouchers and they should have a dedicated team at their hub to address re-accommodation when needed.

All UA needs to do is look to other carriers which include theirs in the Star Alliance. It's not rocket science but the optics of leaving a honeymooning couple to sleep on the floor of baggage claim due to a mechanical cancellation is bad.


Unfortunately, the pressure from the Wall Street people to maintain and boost the stock price permeates the culture of most companies nowadays. UA is no exception. The more money spent on employees, training, new planes, etc., the more the disapproval from Wall Street.



Time to take the company private then.
 
wjcandee
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:23 am

CriticalPoint wrote:

Your point is not lost on me WJC. CRM is extremely important and we train to involve the Flight Attendants in assessing most emergencies. However CRM stands for Crew Resource Managment. Emphasis on Crew. We are professionals that are highly trained. The passengers are not. ComAir could not have been stopped by the DHing pilot as I'm sure he didn't know they were on the wrong runway either. If you look at the airport diagram for Lexington all the runways come together in the same spot.

I have had a passenger in tears because they thought I was going to hit a BA 747 while shooting a parallel approach in ORD.

I had a passenger dress me down in front of a plane full of passengers because I told him we were not going to get De-iced because he insisted I should. He was convinced the condensation he saw on the fuel cell was ice. I couldn't convince him that ice doesn't form above 60 degrees.

Let the professionals do their job. This aircraft hadnt even moved under its own power yet.


And your point that many passengers are know-it-all idiots with terrible attitudes who think they're entitled to tell you what to do or what you did wrong isn't lost on me, either.

Indeed I acknowledged that point in my post. But I think there's a difference between communicating observations and information -- "Hey, there's like a hundred gallons a minute of liquid pouring out of the wing." -- and not accepting the judgment of the professional responsible for dealing with the information once the information has been conveyed.

Your illustrative anecdotes are more the latter -- doubtless because that's the more annoying/frustrating thing to have to deal with, although I'm sure you have a million examples of bad or irrelevant information communicated with respectful urgency.

Maybe my point is nuanced, but my concern is that when one has a million examples of why passengers should shut up, one might conduct oneself as if the broad sweeping generalization is true that all information from passengers is useless and should be stopped at the minimally-knowledgeable-although-trained F/A level, and I think that that's dangerous. (I was with a flight attendant at a major airline for a long time; wonderful person, but from a thousand enlightening conversations, I know the limits of what most of them know, I know that most are convinced they know more than they do, I know that most can only do the job without terror because of the trust they have in the part of the crew that's in the pointy end, I know that this trust often approaches blind trust because that's the most comforting way to handle it, and I know that good judgment (at least on the level of a pilot, doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc.) isn't a standard feature.)

So, if the aircraft isn't in a critical phase -- as you suggest this one wasn't -- why wouldn't you want at least certain factual information to be conveyed forward? Yeah, it interrupts your flow, but maybe one day it will be good that it did.

I frankly think that most passengers are inclined to think that nothing they see is meaningful and would be disinclined to say anything. Just like the F/A portion of the crew has trained every frequent flier that they may NEVER press the call button for something if they don't want to be treated horribly for the rest of the flight (Wait your turn. Nothing you need could possibly be important enough for me to break my routine.), most people are afraid of being humiliated or embarrassed if they are wrong about something. So most of them DO shut up.

Which is why you get one douchebaggy comment every couple of flights instead of 180 of them every flight. Maybe this is less so today when many people think that everyone should be interested in every random thought they have or every picture of every restaurant meal they eat, but it's still the case for the preponderance of society.

Although it turns out, apparently, that the Kitty Genovese tale is somewhat apocryphal, there's a reason it's discussed in every Sociology 101 class -- because it accurately reflects the general fear that most people have of getting involved: that they will be wrong and embarrassed. Better to let someone else do it. Same thing for why there are a million "See Something Say Something" reminders all over NYC: while the police know that they will generate a kazillion unfounded reports, they have made the judgment that the consequences of not reporting information to people who can wisely assess it are much greater than the consequences (primarily expense and inconvenience) of checking it out. The admonition is designed to overcome the inclination of most people to just assume it's nothing or to cross their fingers and hope it's nothing.

I think the consequences in aviation are similar, and that there may be a benefit to at least being receptive to the idea that a passenger may actually have seen something emergent at a time that your support system isn't effectively communicating it to you.

Maybe Comair isn't the perfect example, but there are certainly far too many examples in aviation where assuming it's going to be okay ends up being the fatal choice.

(And, respectfully and FWIW, on Comair, I'm thinkin' that somebody had to be wondering why they were on the 75-foot-width runway rather than the 150. What opportunities that realization had to be turned into meaningful preventative action is questionable, of course, but somebody looking out the window was wondering.

IIRC, the NTSB was wondering why it didn't register on the guys looking out the front window -- a classic human factors question.)

I fully understand that the grandstanding and self-hero-worship of this particular couple is barf-inducing, but there's at least a possibility that it was a good thing that they pressed the F/As to come have a look.

Fly safe. And thank you for the thoughtful, courteous, and knowledgeable discourse.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:19 am

Perhaps this couple heard of TS236 and they wanted to avoid a stopover at TER.

CriticalPoint wrote:

Your point is not lost on me WJC. CRM is extremely important and we train to involve the Flight Attendants in assessing most emergencies. However CRM stands for Crew Resource Managment. Emphasis on Crew. We are professionals that are highly trained. The passengers are not.


And yet, the highly trained professionals in the cockpit of Spanair 5022 wouldn't have their day ruined if some untrained passenger would yell from the back "Hey, guys, no flaps!"
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FlyUSAir
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:06 pm

Typical over-entitled United passengers, demanding the plane have fuel. What a world we live in.
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memphiX
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:24 pm

It is obvious to me that the plane wasn't moving, and the white van was already there looking. This means that somebody knew what was happening before the pax noticed/started filming the event.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:37 pm

wjcandee wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Your point is not lost on me WJC. CRM is extremely important and we train to involve the Flight Attendants in assessing most emergencies. However CRM stands for Crew Resource Managment. Emphasis on Crew. We are professionals that are highly trained. The passengers are not. ComAir could not have been stopped by the DHing pilot as I'm sure he didn't know they were on the wrong runway either. If you look at the airport diagram for Lexington all the runways come together in the same spot.

I have had a passenger in tears because they thought I was going to hit a BA 747 while shooting a parallel approach in ORD.

I had a passenger dress me down in front of a plane full of passengers because I told him we were not going to get De-iced because he insisted I should. He was convinced the condensation he saw on the fuel cell was ice. I couldn't convince him that ice doesn't form above 60 degrees.

Let the professionals do their job. This aircraft hadnt even moved under its own power yet.


And your point that many passengers are know-it-all idiots with terrible attitudes who think they're entitled to tell you what to do or what you did wrong isn't lost on me, either.

Indeed I acknowledged that point in my post. But I think there's a difference between communicating observations and information -- "Hey, there's like a hundred gallons a minute of liquid pouring out of the wing." -- and not accepting the judgment of the professional responsible for dealing with the information once the information has been conveyed.

Your illustrative anecdotes are more the latter -- doubtless because that's the more annoying/frustrating thing to have to deal with, although I'm sure you have a million examples of bad or irrelevant information communicated with respectful urgency.

Maybe my point is nuanced, but my concern is that when one has a million examples of why passengers should shut up, one might conduct oneself as if the broad sweeping generalization is true that all information from passengers is useless and should be stopped at the minimally-knowledgeable-although-trained F/A level, and I think that that's dangerous. (I was with a flight attendant at a major airline for a long time; wonderful person, but from a thousand enlightening conversations, I know the limits of what most of them know, I know that most are convinced they know more than they do, I know that most can only do the job without terror because of the trust they have in the part of the crew that's in the pointy end, I know that this trust often approaches blind trust because that's the most comforting way to handle it, and I know that good judgment (at least on the level of a pilot, doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc.) isn't a standard feature.)

So, if the aircraft isn't in a critical phase -- as you suggest this one wasn't -- why wouldn't you want at least certain factual information to be conveyed forward? Yeah, it interrupts your flow, but maybe one day it will be good that it did.

I frankly think that most passengers are inclined to think that nothing they see is meaningful and would be disinclined to say anything. Just like the F/A portion of the crew has trained every frequent flier that they may NEVER press the call button for something if they don't want to be treated horribly for the rest of the flight (Wait your turn. Nothing you need could possibly be important enough for me to break my routine.), most people are afraid of being humiliated or embarrassed if they are wrong about something. So most of them DO shut up.

Which is why you get one douchebaggy comment every couple of flights instead of 180 of them every flight. Maybe this is less so today when many people think that everyone should be interested in every random thought they have or every picture of every restaurant meal they eat, but it's still the case for the preponderance of society.

Although it turns out, apparently, that the Kitty Genovese tale is somewhat apocryphal, there's a reason it's discussed in every Sociology 101 class -- because it accurately reflects the general fear that most people have of getting involved: that they will be wrong and embarrassed. Better to let someone else do it. Same thing for why there are a million "See Something Say Something" reminders all over NYC: while the police know that they will generate a kazillion unfounded reports, they have made the judgment that the consequences of not reporting information to people who can wisely assess it are much greater than the consequences (primarily expense and inconvenience) of checking it out. The admonition is designed to overcome the inclination of most people to just assume it's nothing or to cross their fingers and hope it's nothing.

I think the consequences in aviation are similar, and that there may be a benefit to at least being receptive to the idea that a passenger may actually have seen something emergent at a time that your support system isn't effectively communicating it to you.

Maybe Comair isn't the perfect example, but there are certainly far too many examples in aviation where assuming it's going to be okay ends up being the fatal choice.

(And, respectfully and FWIW, on Comair, I'm thinkin' that somebody had to be wondering why they were on the 75-foot-width runway rather than the 150. What opportunities that realization had to be turned into meaningful preventative action is questionable, of course, but somebody looking out the window was wondering.

IIRC, the NTSB was wondering why it didn't register on the guys looking out the front window -- a classic human factors question.)

I fully understand that the grandstanding and self-hero-worship of this particular couple is barf-inducing, but there's at least a possibility that it was a good thing that they pressed the F/As to come have a look.

Fly safe. And thank you for the thoughtful, courteous, and knowledgeable discourse.


Thanks again for the well thought out post.

There are certain things we do rely on the passengers for. They are smell and feeling sick. If a passenger starts to smell something strange I take that passenger very seriously and will ask for corroboration and updates. Same with several passengers who start to not feel well. In the 787 the air the cockpit gets is different than the air the passengers get. Some people have a much greater sense of smell. If anyone ever feels like they smell smoke or electrical PLEASE LET A FA KNOW.

I have also had a Jump seating pilot inform the FA that we were not De-iced properly and that there was still snow all over the wing. Being that he was a uniformed pilot I went back and got De-iced again, but that falls under the CREW part of CRM. If a passenger informed me I was not De-Iced properly I would go back and look for myself, but I wouldn't dismiss it. So you may ask what is the difference between this scenario and and the fuel leak. I can't rely on the Tower, rampers or other aircraft to tell me there is snow on my wing. However when there is that much fuel coming out of the wing I will be called very quickly over the radio.

When I have an earpiece in my head and Im talking to tower, crash fire rescue, and the FO about an issue the last thing I need is the continuous dinging of the FAs in the back of the aircraft telling me what I already know, and before you say I'm rude FAs already know this and it is why they were trying to calm people down in the back rather than running to tell the pilots. Once the situation is stabilized my first call is to the FAs, and in this case my first question would be what is the status of the fuel leak? Is it still happening? FA know they will be in the loop in due time, this is not insulting it is the training that is given.

Take for example the recent 757 evacuation due to a tail pipe fire in EWR. The pilots involved were notified by tower that they had an engine fire. That was backed up by other aircraft behind them. The CA started his emergency procedures that led to an evacuation. If the CA had to answer a cabin call from the FAs telling him that the passengers had seen an engine fire it would have wasted precious seconds.

Bottom line is if you as a passenger see a MAJOR issue rest assured the flight deck already knows. I appreciate the poster above that works for boeing that notified the CA about the bolts. Thats great information.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:45 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Perhaps this couple heard of TS236 and they wanted to avoid a stopover at TER.

CriticalPoint wrote:

Your point is not lost on me WJC. CRM is extremely important and we train to involve the Flight Attendants in assessing most emergencies. However CRM stands for Crew Resource Managment. Emphasis on Crew. We are professionals that are highly trained. The passengers are not.


And yet, the highly trained professionals in the cockpit of Spanair 5022 wouldn't have their day ruined if some untrained passenger would yell from the back "Hey, guys, no flaps!"


Have you ever seen a flaps 1 Take Off? Flaps 1 (on boeings) is a slats only position. So if you are sitting behind the wing you will not see any flaps. You going to start yelling?
 
yeelep
Posts: 766
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:01 am

Guess the 737 isn't a Boeing plane then.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:19 am

That looked scary. At the very least, fuel gushing on the tarmac in more than small amounts is a safety issue.

And "nothing is wrong, don't bother us" attitude under all possible circumstances (even when it might not be the case) from the crew is sadly all too likely. I was also horrified by Kanban's story.

jumbojet wrote:
and people call me a troll for continuing to throw UA under the boss.


I think you meant "under the bus". But hey, my interpretation of the situation at United is that they really are under the boss, and suffering. New management needed. Maybe one that respects customers.
 
ei146
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:33 am

Sometimes the small things make the difference. Maybe if they said: "Please sit down. We are aware of the issue some of you see on our left side and deal with it." Asuming cabin crew knew about it...
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:50 pm

ei146 wrote:
Sometimes the small things make the difference. Maybe if they said: "Please sit down. We are aware of the issue some of you see on our left side and deal with it." Asuming cabin crew knew about it...

Wow, probably the smartest thing said in this entire thread right here
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:44 pm

ei146 wrote:
Sometimes the small things make the difference. Maybe if they said: "Please sit down. We are aware of the issue some of you see on our left side and deal with it." Asuming cabin crew knew about it...


How do you know that wasn't what was said? Because 1 couple who wants United to pay for their honeymoon and give them first class said so to the NY Post?

You always believe everything you read from 1 source? I highly doubt the FAs acted the way these two passengers said they did. I also highly doubt United only gave certain people hotel accommodations and made the others sleep on the floor at the airport. I also know for a fact the plane was no where near takeoff. You know how many fuel leaks there are on a daily basis? It's just not blown out of proportion by people trying to get money out of a corporation.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:55 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
ei146 wrote:
Sometimes the small things make the difference. Maybe if they said: "Please sit down. We are aware of the issue some of you see on our left side and deal with it." Asuming cabin crew knew about it...


How do you know that wasn't what was said? Because 1 couple who wants United to pay for their honeymoon and give them first class said so to the NY Post?

You always believe everything you read from 1 source? I highly doubt the FAs acted the way these two passengers said they did. I also highly doubt United only gave certain people hotel accommodations and made the others sleep on the floor at the airport. I also know for a fact the plane was no where near takeoff. You know how many fuel leaks there are on a daily basis? It's just not blown out of proportion by people trying to get money out of a corporation.

No rational person hears that reply and continues to freak out like they did. It honestly doesn't seem crazy to me that the crew reacted exactly like those people described. If you read half of the responses from crew on here, they think passengers are brain dead and don't know a thing about airplanes, so anything they say is worthless. Awfully cynical to say this couple was just out for a free vacation. There are a lot of other ways to get a free vacation, and this couple didn't get anything close to that.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:01 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
ei146 wrote:
Sometimes the small things make the difference. Maybe if they said: "Please sit down. We are aware of the issue some of you see on our left side and deal with it." Asuming cabin crew knew about it...


How do you know that wasn't what was said? Because 1 couple who wants United to pay for their honeymoon and give them first class said so to the NY Post?

You always believe everything you read from 1 source? I highly doubt the FAs acted the way these two passengers said they did. I also highly doubt United only gave certain people hotel accommodations and made the others sleep on the floor at the airport. I also know for a fact the plane was no where near takeoff. You know how many fuel leaks there are on a daily basis? It's just not blown out of proportion by people trying to get money out of a corporation.

No rational person hears that reply and continues to freak out like they did. It honestly doesn't seem crazy to me that the crew reacted exactly like those people described. If you read half of the responses from crew on here, they think passengers are brain dead and don't know a thing about airplanes, so anything they say is worthless. Awfully cynical to say this couple was just out for a free vacation. There are a lot of other ways to get a free vacation, and this couple didn't get anything close to that.


Is there another video somewhere I'm not seeing because in the very short original video no one is freaking out and the FAs are certainly not yelling at anybody. So are we just taking this couples word?
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:02 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

How do you know that wasn't what was said? Because 1 couple who wants United to pay for their honeymoon and give them first class said so to the NY Post?

You always believe everything you read from 1 source? I highly doubt the FAs acted the way these two passengers said they did. I also highly doubt United only gave certain people hotel accommodations and made the others sleep on the floor at the airport. I also know for a fact the plane was no where near takeoff. You know how many fuel leaks there are on a daily basis? It's just not blown out of proportion by people trying to get money out of a corporation.

No rational person hears that reply and continues to freak out like they did. It honestly doesn't seem crazy to me that the crew reacted exactly like those people described. If you read half of the responses from crew on here, they think passengers are brain dead and don't know a thing about airplanes, so anything they say is worthless. Awfully cynical to say this couple was just out for a free vacation. There are a lot of other ways to get a free vacation, and this couple didn't get anything close to that.


Is there another video somewhere I'm not seeing because in the very short original video no one is freaking out and the FAs are certainly not yelling at anybody. So are we just taking this couples word?

And you're taking no one's word...
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:09 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Have you ever seen a flaps 1 Take Off? Flaps 1 (on boeings) is a slats only position. So if you are sitting behind the wing you will not see any flaps. You going to start yelling?


I've seen a take off configuration with slats only. I believe it was an AC 762, half empty, on a Rapidair flight. Therefore I didn't say anything (even the dumb passengers know about the possibility of flaps not being deployed). Would it be the same aircraft, full and ready to take off from YYZ to YVR, I'd be definitely yelling.
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CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:11 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
No rational person hears that reply and continues to freak out like they did. It honestly doesn't seem crazy to me that the crew reacted exactly like those people described. If you read half of the responses from crew on here, they think passengers are brain dead and don't know a thing about airplanes, so anything they say is worthless. Awfully cynical to say this couple was just out for a free vacation. There are a lot of other ways to get a free vacation, and this couple didn't get anything close to that.


Is there another video somewhere I'm not seeing because in the very short original video no one is freaking out and the FAs are certainly not yelling at anybody. So are we just taking this couples word?

And you're taking no one's word...


I guess not then.......

I'm taking the word of the crew members I fly with, train with and the word of the company I work for. By the way what ever happened to that Honeymoon couple that was so obviously wronged in IAH on their honeymoon? Oh thats right turns out they were trying to steal an upgrade. People NEVER lie or tell big stories, and news papers never try to write in extra drama into their stories. NY Post is famous for this.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:12 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Have you ever seen a flaps 1 Take Off? Flaps 1 (on boeings) is a slats only position. So if you are sitting behind the wing you will not see any flaps. You going to start yelling?


I've seen a take off configuration with slats only. I believe it was an AC 762, half empty, on a Rapidair flight. Therefore I didn't say anything (even the dumb passengers know about the possibility of flaps not being deployed). Would it be the same aircraft, full and ready to take off from YYZ to YVR, I'd be definitely yelling.


actually you are more likely to see a flaps 1 takeoff when the plane is fully loaded.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:13 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Is there another video somewhere I'm not seeing because in the very short original video no one is freaking out and the FAs are certainly not yelling at anybody. So are we just taking this couples word?

And you're taking no one's word...


I guess not then.......

I'm taking the word of the crew members I fly with, train with and the word of the company I work for. By the way what ever happened to that Honeymoon couple that was so obviously wronged in IAH on their honeymoon? Oh thats right turns out they were trying to steal an upgrade. People NEVER lie or tell big stories, and news papers never try to write in extra drama into their stories. NY Post is famous for this.

I must've missed the part where any of what they claimed was denied. I want to believe crew too, but they're overworked and sadly some are simply jaded. I was a flight attendant too but I'm a realist. The great ones are outnumbered by the jaded ones
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA 170 at EWR 6/13 had fuel leak prior to takeoff

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:21 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
And you're taking no one's word...


I guess not then.......

I'm taking the word of the crew members I fly with, train with and the word of the company I work for. By the way what ever happened to that Honeymoon couple that was so obviously wronged in IAH on their honeymoon? Oh thats right turns out they were trying to steal an upgrade. People NEVER lie or tell big stories, and news papers never try to write in extra drama into their stories. NY Post is famous for this.

I must've missed the part where any of what they claimed was denied. I want to believe crew too, but they're overworked and sadly some are simply jaded. I was a flight attendant too but I'm a realist. The great ones are outnumbered by the jaded ones


Most likely nothing that couple said will ever be disputed because no one was wronged. United came out and said the plane suffered a fuel leak and the passengers were re booked. The airline will not get into a pissing match with random people. What I find interesting is other than a bunch of tweets no other passenger has come out and said anything to the media. For this fact I doubt their story, just like I doubted the story of the IAH honeymooners. As soon as someone demands compensation for something that did not harm them directly I immediately doubt their story.

I'm sorry these people had their flight canceled and I do recognize that this can be scary for people. It is the Flight attendants job to keep the peace in the back of the aircraft. I have no doubt the FAs told people to remain seated however I doubt they were unprofessional.
 
catiii
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Re: VIDEO: UA 170 EWR-VCE Almost Takes Off With Jet Fuel Pouring From Wing

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:35 pm

jumbojet wrote:
and people call me a troll for continuing to throw UA under the boss. Folks, the culture at UA hasn't changed and likely never will. I can't wait to hear what OM says about this. My favorite line from the article...


After finally securing a spot on a Wednesday night Delta flight, the airline gave them a food voucher but nowhere to sleep for evening, she says — the pair slept on the floor of the baggage claim until 7:30 a.m. when another passenger who did score a hotel voucher spotted them and offered the two heroes the room. .


No, people call you a troll because you ARE a troll. You have a blind loyalty to Delta, and throw every other carrier under the bus.

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