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Rookie87
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:18 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
I think there are some who are missing the point of what others are saying. Even if you're a minimalist traveler it's a negative, or at the very least doesn't help or hurt you. While I don't believe it can be factually proven, many are stating that the E- fares are simply the base fares that previously included access to the overhead bins, but now you have to buy access to the overheads. So even if you don't use them, you're paying what previously would have given you access to them



If it can't be proven then....??
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:20 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
I think there are some who are missing the point of what others are saying. Even if you're a minimalist traveler it's a negative, or at the very least doesn't help or hurt you. While I don't believe it can be factually proven, many are stating that the E- fares are simply the base fares that previously included access to the overhead bins, but now you have to buy access to the overheads. So even if you don't use them, you're paying what previously would have given you access to them



If it can't be proven then....??

Doesn't make it not true
 
Varsity1
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:50 pm

How are they controlling access to the overhead bins?
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:52 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
I think there are some who are missing the point of what others are saying. Even if you're a minimalist traveler it's a negative, or at the very least doesn't help or hurt you. While I don't believe it can be factually proven, many are stating that the E- fares are simply the base fares that previously included access to the overhead bins, but now you have to buy access to the overheads. So even if you don't use them, you're paying what previously would have given you access to them

The only way you lose access to the overheads is if the airline physically uninstalls them or put a mechanism that opens it when you insert a quarter. You can still go on with a backpack and put it in the overhead. Hell, you can do the same with your phone, wallet, shoes, coat, hat, etc...
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:55 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
I think there are some who are missing the point of what others are saying. Even if you're a minimalist traveler it's a negative, or at the very least doesn't help or hurt you. While I don't believe it can be factually proven, many are stating that the E- fares are simply the base fares that previously included access to the overhead bins, but now you have to buy access to the overheads. So even if you don't use them, you're paying what previously would have given you access to them

The only way you lose access to the overheads is if the airline physically uninstalls them or put a mechanism that opens it when you insert a quarter. You can still go on with a backpack and put it in the overhead. Hell, you can do the same with your phone, wallet, shoes, coat, hat, etc...

Or when the Flight Attendant comes by and says, oh I'm sorry you purchased a Basic Economy Ticket, unfortunately you'll have to keep that under your seat. (At least that is in theory what UA would like to happen)
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:06 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
I think there are some who are missing the point of what others are saying. Even if you're a minimalist traveler it's a negative, or at the very least doesn't help or hurt you. While I don't believe it can be factually proven, many are stating that the E- fares are simply the base fares that previously included access to the overhead bins, but now you have to buy access to the overheads. So even if you don't use them, you're paying what previously would have given you access to them

The only way you lose access to the overheads is if the airline physically uninstalls them or put a mechanism that opens it when you insert a quarter. You can still go on with a backpack and put it in the overhead. Hell, you can do the same with your phone, wallet, shoes, coat, hat, etc...

Or when the Flight Attendant comes by and says, oh I'm sorry you purchased a Basic Economy Ticket, unfortunately you'll have to keep that under your seat. (At least that is in theory what UA would like to happen)

The FA isn't gonna be able to tell if it is a Basic Economy ticket unless it is on the boarding pass, like Economy Plus, which is clearly a different/modified product and labelled as such from regular economy.

You're grasping at straws.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
United1
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:07 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
How are they controlling access to the overhead bins?


The gate agent is not supposed to let people with basic economy fares board with anything more than a personal item and will offer to gate check, for a fee, any carry on. That's the extent of controlling access to the bins as no one onboard the aircraft will question if you place your item up there.

People with basic economy fares, and no status, board last so the real access control is by the time group 5 gets to board there isn't lots (if any) room left in the overhead.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:09 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The only way you lose access to the overheads is if the airline physically uninstalls them or put a mechanism that opens it when you insert a quarter. You can still go on with a backpack and put it in the overhead. Hell, you can do the same with your phone, wallet, shoes, coat, hat, etc...

Or when the Flight Attendant comes by and says, oh I'm sorry you purchased a Basic Economy Ticket, unfortunately you'll have to keep that under your seat. (At least that is in theory what UA would like to happen)

The FA isn't gonna be able to tell if it is a Basic Economy ticket unless it is on the boarding pass, like Economy Plus, which is clearly a different/modified product and labelled as such from regular economy.

You're grasping at straws.

Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?
 
United1
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:10 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
I think there are some who are missing the point of what others are saying. Even if you're a minimalist traveler it's a negative, or at the very least doesn't help or hurt you. While I don't believe it can be factually proven, many are stating that the E- fares are simply the base fares that previously included access to the overhead bins, but now you have to buy access to the overheads. So even if you don't use them, you're paying what previously would have given you access to them

The only way you lose access to the overheads is if the airline physically uninstalls them or put a mechanism that opens it when you insert a quarter. You can still go on with a backpack and put it in the overhead. Hell, you can do the same with your phone, wallet, shoes, coat, hat, etc...

Or when the Flight Attendant comes by and says, oh I'm sorry you purchased a Basic Economy Ticket, unfortunately you'll have to keep that under your seat. (At least that is in theory what UA would like to happen)


The F/As do not enforce, and have told not to, who may access the overhead bins...the gate agent is responsible for spotting a carry on item and gate checking it, for a fee, before the passenger boards. Once you are onboard the aircraft there is no difference in service....
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:14 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
How are they controlling access to the overhead bins?


they board in the last group, usually no bin space anyway, and are only allowed a small personal item. If they want to put that small personal item in the ovhd have at it.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:16 pm

[code][/code]
jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Or when the Flight Attendant comes by and says, oh I'm sorry you purchased a Basic Economy Ticket, unfortunately you'll have to keep that under your seat. (At least that is in theory what UA would like to happen)

The FA isn't gonna be able to tell if it is a Basic Economy ticket unless it is on the boarding pass, like Economy Plus, which is clearly a different/modified product and labelled as such from regular economy.

You're grasping at straws.

Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?


Honest question, what is the difference between basic economy and flying NK,F9 and G4? Are you suggesting that their business plan is not positive and not customer friendly?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:21 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Or when the Flight Attendant comes by and says, oh I'm sorry you purchased a Basic Economy Ticket, unfortunately you'll have to keep that under your seat. (At least that is in theory what UA would like to happen)

The FA isn't gonna be able to tell if it is a Basic Economy ticket unless it is on the boarding pass, like Economy Plus, which is clearly a different/modified product and labelled as such from regular economy.

You're grasping at straws.

Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?

It's increasing on-time metrics and allowing more customers to fly on an airline with a much more broad network and FF program than the competitors with similar models. Yes I am, and it is proven.

Since you don't believe me, try flying on Alaska (I'm assuming you're an AS fan from your avatar) or NK (Basic Economy in the whole airplane) to MEM or MFE or PNS or ORF. And then using the miles you gain from those flights to fly to NRT or LHR or EZE or SYD on AS or NK metal.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:32 pm

kalvado wrote:
TSA bag screening system may become a bottleneck.

Or may not. That's supposition, not fact.

kalvado wrote:
And no, that one was not doing it for decades on end, quite successfully.

Not sure what time frame you're recalling, but in the 3 decades of post-dereg flying leading up to the paid-baggage era, they most certainly did.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Varsity1
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:34 pm

United1 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
How are they controlling access to the overhead bins?


The gate agent is not supposed to let people with basic economy fares board with anything more than a personal item and will offer to gate check, for a fee, any carry on. That's the extent of controlling access to the bins as no one onboard the aircraft will question if you place your item up there.

People with basic economy fares, and no status, board last so the real access control is by the time group 5 gets to board there isn't lots (if any) room left in the overhead.


Seems difficult to enforce if the gate agent is also mindful of on time stats. (Which they are).
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:40 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
United1 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
How are they controlling access to the overhead bins?


The gate agent is not supposed to let people with basic economy fares board with anything more than a personal item and will offer to gate check, for a fee, any carry on. That's the extent of controlling access to the bins as no one onboard the aircraft will question if you place your item up there.

People with basic economy fares, and no status, board last so the real access control is by the time group 5 gets to board there isn't lots (if any) room left in the overhead.


Seems difficult to enforce if the gate agent is also mindful of on time stats. (Which they are).



Not hard at all everyone in group 5 needs to check there bags. Pretty easy there is no arguing.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:46 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The FA isn't gonna be able to tell if it is a Basic Economy ticket unless it is on the boarding pass, like Economy Plus, which is clearly a different/modified product and labelled as such from regular economy.

You're grasping at straws.

Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?

It's increasing on-time metrics and allowing more customers to fly on an airline with a much more broad network and FF program than the competitors with similar models. Yes I am, and it is proven.

Since you don't believe me, try flying on Alaska (I'm assuming you're an AS fan from your avatar) or NK (Basic Economy in the whole airplane) to MEM or MFE or PNS or ORF. And then using the miles you gain from those flights to fly to NRT or LHR or EZE or SYD on AS or NK metal.

Damn you drank all the Corporate Kool-Aid. Sad to see. Basic economy is a scam and terrible. People who fly NK arent the FF point saving type. AS has probably the most rewarding FF program out there right now, but I'm really missing out on those amazing value rewards flying across the Atlantic on LH with their recliner J class or with the cranky old UA FAs who do the bare minimum
 
coolian2
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:56 pm

The E- fares are stupid for many, many reasons.

The key part I hate is my backpack, which I can live out of for over a week before finding a laundry, can easily get dropped under the seat in front of me - as I've done plenty of times to make boarding faster for those behind me. I normally toss it in the overhead bin because I can, but now with gate agents taking able to turn my packing into a lottery on whether I should bother with one bag or just take two (since I risk paying for even my one) - it's bollocks.
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:04 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?

It's increasing on-time metrics and allowing more customers to fly on an airline with a much more broad network and FF program than the competitors with similar models. Yes I am, and it is proven.

Since you don't believe me, try flying on Alaska (I'm assuming you're an AS fan from your avatar) or NK (Basic Economy in the whole airplane) to MEM or MFE or PNS or ORF. And then using the miles you gain from those flights to fly to NRT or LHR or EZE or SYD on AS or NK metal.

Damn you drank all the Corporate Kool-Aid. Sad to see. Basic economy is a scam and terrible. People who fly NK arent the FF point saving type. AS has probably the most rewarding FF program out there right now, but I'm really missing out on those amazing value rewards flying across the Atlantic on LH with their recliner J class or with the cranky old UA FAs who do the bare minimum

That's why Spirit has a FF program? What's stopping those Spirit-esque fliers on UA from getting a free MileagePlus account?

Not even gonna touch the service aspect of your response. That's all personal preference.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Varsity1
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:14 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
United1 wrote:

The gate agent is not supposed to let people with basic economy fares board with anything more than a personal item and will offer to gate check, for a fee, any carry on. That's the extent of controlling access to the bins as no one onboard the aircraft will question if you place your item up there.

People with basic economy fares, and no status, board last so the real access control is by the time group 5 gets to board there isn't lots (if any) room left in the overhead.


Seems difficult to enforce if the gate agent is also mindful of on time stats. (Which they are).



Not hard at all everyone in group 5 needs to check there bags. Pretty easy there is no arguing.


The gate agents performance is measured by on time departures. If a flight is running late do you think they are going to sit there are argue with every single basic economy passenger about their bag? No. They will look the other way and say get on the plane.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
manny
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:27 pm

You know what would make operations even more efficient. No passengers at all. Boarding would be such a breeze and the airline employees would be in such a great mood. Plus all flights would leave on time. It is a fear most airlines would have in a free market. Unfortunately with all these mega mergers what we have are bunch of oligopolies that now know they can screw the their clients without any meaningful decline in revenues because customers do not have a lot of options.
 
Osubuckeyes
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:41 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
It's increasing on-time metrics and allowing more customers to fly on an airline with a much more broad network and FF program than the competitors with similar models. Yes I am, and it is proven.

Since you don't believe me, try flying on Alaska (I'm assuming you're an AS fan from your avatar) or NK (Basic Economy in the whole airplane) to MEM or MFE or PNS or ORF. And then using the miles you gain from those flights to fly to NRT or LHR or EZE or SYD on AS or NK metal.

Damn you drank all the Corporate Kool-Aid. Sad to see. Basic economy is a scam and terrible. People who fly NK arent the FF point saving type. AS has probably the most rewarding FF program out there right now, but I'm really missing out on those amazing value rewards flying across the Atlantic on LH with their recliner J class or with the cranky old UA FAs who do the bare minimum

That's why Spirit has a FF program? What's stopping those Spirit-esque fliers on UA from getting a free MileagePlus account?

Not even gonna touch the service aspect of your response. That's all personal preference.



Are you really trying to argue that E- fares are a boon to consumers because of FF programs...? Sorry I'm gonna call the BS flag on that one. The "targeted" E- flier would have to spend $5000+ on E- fares just to get a domestic flight roundtrip and considerably more for longhaul, which doesn't even address the issue of availability... The point of E- fares is to make folks pay more or less the same amount for literally no benefits, so you cannot argue that UA has is providing a benefit to their customers with their superior FF program. Whether you like it or not E- is a price hike marketed as unbundling (which it isn't even that).
 
polywad6963
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United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:22 pm

Saw on yahoo that United is being slammed for the lowest economy fare (No seat change, no full carry-on, no mileage earnings, no changing flights). On the website I see that you have to agree to this fare, click a box then can purchase the fare. Am I in the minority that thinks that this isn't fair to blame United, but the public for not reading and booking because they are the cheapest? As a note, I think it is interesting that they say can earn another $1B for this!
 
springtx
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:30 pm

Its the public that think they can pay the basic price and get first class service.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:32 pm

There is already a thread about this with pretty recent posts
 
polywad6963
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:36 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
There is already a thread about this with pretty recent posts


Sorry about that, still new to the site. My apologies!
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:41 pm

springtx wrote:
Its the public that think they can pay the basic price and get first class service.


Bingo.........
 
ScottB
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:46 pm

polywad6963 wrote:
Saw on yahoo that United is being slammed for the lowest economy fare (No seat change, no full carry-on, no mileage earnings, no changing flights). On the website I see that you have to agree to this fare, click a box then can purchase the fare. Am I in the minority that thinks that this isn't fair to blame United, but the public for not reading and booking because they are the cheapest?


Personally, I think United shoulders some blame in that "basic economy" is little more than a disguised fare increase by way of removing services from what had previously been the lowest economy fares they offered; i.e. the $99 fare stayed the same but they made the product supplied for that fare worse. I can't see why anyone would choose to book basic economy on UA over B6 or WN unless the latter two are simply unavailable.
 
CalTex
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:11 pm

Bigger problem: some people book their tickets through third parties like Expedia and receive no warnings about the restrictions. People need to book their tickets straight through the airline, but I can forgive a travel novice who might not know any better for making that mistake once.

(edited for wording)
 
eaa3
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:16 pm

CalTex wrote:
Bigger problem: some people book their tickets through third parties like Expedia and receive no warnings about the restrictions. People need to book their tickets straight through the airline, but I can forgive a travel novice who might not know any better for making that mistake once.

(edited for wording)


Actually, Expedia makes it pretty clear what you get for your fare. You should check it out. Try to book a dummy ticket.
 
bob75013
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Re: United Basic Economy

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:18 pm

ScottB wrote:
polywad6963 wrote:
Saw on yahoo that United is being slammed for the lowest economy fare (No seat change, no full carry-on, no mileage earnings, no changing flights). On the website I see that you have to agree to this fare, click a box then can purchase the fare. Am I in the minority that thinks that this isn't fair to blame United, but the public for not reading and booking because they are the cheapest?


Personally, I think United shoulders some blame in that "basic economy" is little more than a disguised fare increase by way of removing services from what had previously been the lowest economy fares they offered; i.e. the $99 fare stayed the same but they made the product supplied for that fare worse. I can't see why anyone would choose to book basic economy on UA over B6 or WN unless the latter two are simply unavailable.


United is simply offering the same level of service and roughly the same prices as Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier, in an effort to attract some of the people that would have flown those airlines..

People that are complaining about it have somehow ignored the WARNING< WARNING< WARNING BARE BONES TRAVEL that United shouts at anyone that tries
to book one of those fares.

The United product is VASTLY superior to that offered by the other three for one reason: if your Spirit flight get's cancelled, you'll be lucky to catch a seat in 2 or 3 days due to lack of frequency coupled with high load factors. United has lots more frequency, resulting in a much better chance of you getting to your destination a lot sooner than if you were on Spirit, Frontier, or Allegiant.
 
United1
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:40 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

Seems difficult to enforce if the gate agent is also mindful of on time stats. (Which they are).



Not hard at all everyone in group 5 needs to check there bags. Pretty easy there is no arguing.


The gate agents performance is measured by on time departures. If a flight is running late do you think they are going to sit there are argue with every single basic economy passenger about their bag? No. They will look the other way and say get on the plane.


Quite possibly however keep in mind that the plane cant be pushed back until everyones bags are stowed...if that means gate checks that means gate checks. If they do simply let a few people on board with luggage I'm not sure if matters...especially if the flight goes out ontime.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
rta
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:34 am

In theory, UA, AA, and DL would prefer people to pay the higher economy priced ticket. Offering basic economy simply pulls people to their website. They've found a way to compete with Frontier/Spirit without having to slash prices. They don't care if the flight goes out with full or empty overhead bins; they just want to see if they can annoy people enough to pay a higher fare.

Seems like its working. As a customer I enjoyed finding $60 tickets on AA with all the perks, but its a brilliant move from the airline.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2014
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:16 am

LAX772LR wrote:
kalvado wrote:
TSA bag screening system may become a bottleneck.

Or may not. That's supposition, not fact.

kalvado wrote:
And no, that one was not doing it for decades on end, quite successfully.

Not sure what time frame you're recalling, but in the 3 decades of post-dereg flying leading up to the paid-baggage era, they most certainly did.

I was talking about TSA having less than 3 decades of history, and concept of 100% luggage screening having even shorter history.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:27 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
[code][/code]
jnev3289 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The FA isn't gonna be able to tell if it is a Basic Economy ticket unless it is on the boarding pass, like Economy Plus, which is clearly a different/modified product and labelled as such from regular economy.

You're grasping at straws.

Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?


Honest question, what is the difference between basic economy and flying NK,F9 and G4? Are you suggesting that their business plan is not positive and not customer friendly?
Flying on NK, F9, or G4 you can actually get a really cheap fare for barebones service. On the majors, you just get the same barebones service for the same price you were paying before.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
ggflyboy
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Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:02 am

All I know is that consistently in the markets I fly from, United's "Basic Fares" are anything but competitive. Typically, they are the same price or higher than fares on AA, DL, or WN, but you have to add in the $25-50 for the bag you would otherwise be allowed to carry on. So essentially, I now just ignore most UA offerings, since they've ironically become more expensive up front. They're not even trying. For example, a $400 ERJ flight out of ELP 6 months ago is still $400 now, you just can't bring anything with you or pick a seat. And I'll probably see an offering from another airline (on mainline, carry on included) for less. Who would buy the UA offer?

This reminds me- since most of the UA flights from my home airport are on RJs, how does UA save on cabin space when everything gets gate checked anyway?

If you're going to play the NK/G4/F9 game, you've got to actually pass on some up-front savings to the customer to stimulate demand, and then allow them to buy into what they want. In my personal experience, UA just skipped the first part. Maybe their "operational efficiencies" are just lack of butts in seats. Who knows. From a consumer standpoint the value proposition of "basic" is highly questionable.
 
michman
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:17 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Honest question, what is the difference between basic economy and flying NK,F9 and G4? Are you suggesting that their business plan is not positive and not customer friendly?


You do understand that basic economy is not actually a separate cabin, right? Aside from the carry-on restrictions on AA/UA (DL does not limit this), you still get a regular coach seats, snacks, beverages, IFE, etc. Have you actually flown any of the ULCC's?
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:38 pm

michman wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Honest question, what is the difference between basic economy and flying NK,F9 and G4? Are you suggesting that their business plan is not positive and not customer friendly?


You do understand that basic economy is not actually a separate cabin, right? Aside from the carry-on restrictions on AA/UA (DL does not limit this), you still get a regular coach seats, snacks, beverages, IFE, etc. Have you actually flown any of the ULCC's?


Iv flown them all. Thanks for making my point, Basic Economy on a major is still Way better than NK, F9 and G4. That's why I don't understand why people are complaining. At least you have a choice to NOT sit in basic Economy.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:45 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Actually airports generally do charge per bag through their sortation system. Gate check bags however avoid the sortation system. Not sure to what degree this would make a difference though. It would be unusual for an arrival port to charge, but departure ports sure do.


No they don't. Very, very rare in the U.S. If not owned by the airline outright, which is the case at many hubs, outbound and inbound bag systems are paid through joint use charges.
 
OSUk1d
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:17 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
[code][/code]
jnev3289 wrote:
Are you really trying to argue these fares are a positive thing or customer friendly?


Honest question, what is the difference between basic economy and flying NK,F9 and G4? Are you suggesting that their business plan is not positive and not customer friendly?
Flying on NK, F9, or G4 you can actually get a really cheap fare for barebones service. On the majors, you just get the same barebones service for the same price you were paying before.



The majors don't charge $3 for a can of soda, but at least G4 doesn't charge for emergency landings.
 
User avatar
MarcoPoloWorld
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:37 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:03 am

This is really black-and-white proof that the Basic Economy concept is a win-win for everyone.

And although I didn't expect (nor hope) that the BE fares would apparently become the new Y fares and the old Y fares bumped up, this is ultimately an indication of the value that the market places on the "ancillaries" of a network carrier vs. ultra-low-cost carrier, including mileage, in-cabin and ground service, network, and other intangibles.

Looking forward to paying $20 extra to get out of the overhead bin space mayhem - even though I almost always just bring a small backpack myself that fits under the seat in front.
 
dcaviation
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:23 am

AWACSooner wrote:
Why do people fall for this "Econ -" scam? I can pull up time and time again where UA/DL/AA offer this "Econ -" for the same price on the same routes as WN/VA/AS and the latter are actually the same price, if not outright cheaper. They sell you this as a way " to keep fares low," but it's nothing but an excuse to jack up the price of what you were previously paying the same fare for!


And that's why tomorrow I'm flying WN. United price for the same flight was $480 for Economy Minus. I am elite with them and have CC so don't have to worry about bag fees. But, if I want to get any miles, and select the damn seat, I have to buy regular economy which is $100 more for the round trip. To HELL with United.
I bought ticket on Southwest for $550 Business Select. Got boarding pass with number A03 and coupon for free drink on both flights.

On international flights out of IAD I'm switching to Lufthansa and Miles&More. I had enough of United's crap service, food and now prices over the last 20 years!
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 910
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:06 am

michman wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Honest question, what is the difference between basic economy and flying NK,F9 and G4? Are you suggesting that their business plan is not positive and not customer friendly?


You do understand that basic economy is not actually a separate cabin, right? Aside from the carry-on restrictions on AA/UA (DL does not limit this), you still get a regular coach seats, snacks, beverages, IFE, etc. Have you actually flown any of the ULCC's?


Majors have superior cabin to anything ULCCs are offering. You may be paying the same price but the experience is much better. NK has some of the dirtiest lavatories I have ever seen in my life. Some 5-6 years ago I interviewed with a company that flew me in on NK and I rejected their offer for that reason.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:23 am

dcaviation wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Why do people fall for this "Econ -" scam? I can pull up time and time again where UA/DL/AA offer this "Econ -" for the same price on the same routes as WN/VA/AS and the latter are actually the same price, if not outright cheaper. They sell you this as a way " to keep fares low," but it's nothing but an excuse to jack up the price of what you were previously paying the same fare for!


And that's why tomorrow I'm flying WN. United price for the same flight was $480 for Economy Minus. I am elite with them and have CC so don't have to worry about bag fees. But, if I want to get any miles, and select the damn seat, I have to buy regular economy which is $100 more for the round trip. To HELL with United.
I bought ticket on Southwest for $550 Business Select. Got boarding pass with number A03 and coupon for free drink on both flights.

On international flights out of IAD I'm switching to Lufthansa and Miles&More. I had enough of United's crap service, food and now prices over the last 20 years!


So you are giving everything up? 20 years? All the miles, the benefits, the upgrades, the star alliance, the best route structure in the world......for $30? C'est la vie. I don't understand......
 
dcaviation
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:39 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
dcaviation wrote:
So you are giving everything up? 20 years? All the miles, the benefits, the upgrades, the star alliance, the best route structure in the world......for $30? C'est la vie. I don't understand......


You really want me to start pointing out everything wrong with the airline? I don't have all day.
Like the ticket change in economy class for $1750 from Europe to US.
KL/DL one way ticket on that date in business class was $1500!
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:17 am

dcaviation wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
dcaviation wrote:
So you are giving everything up? 20 years? All the miles, the benefits, the upgrades, the star alliance, the best route structure in the world......for $30? C'est la vie. I don't understand......


You really want me to start pointing out everything wrong with the airline? I don't have all day.
Like the ticket change in economy class for $1750 from Europe to US.
KL/DL one way ticket on that date in business class was $1500!

I don't get it either. Like cutting off your face to spite your nose. If you are elite you get priority boarding, a free drink, and a snack box, economy plus, and if you are really flying WN you're 20% more likely to be delayed vs UA, for a 30 dollar fare difference, just because someone else pays for a basic economy fare?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:12 pm

B737900ER wrote:
dcaviation wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:


You really want me to start pointing out everything wrong with the airline? I don't have all day.
Like the ticket change in economy class for $1750 from Europe to US.
KL/DL one way ticket on that date in business class was $1500!

I don't get it either. Like cutting off your face to spite your nose. If you are elite you get priority boarding, a free drink, and a snack box, economy plus, and if you are really flying WN you're 20% more likely to be delayed vs UA, for a 30 dollar fare difference, just because someone else pays for a basic economy fare?


If he flies from IAD, he has an outstanding chance of being on a regional aircraft ex-IAD, in which case your on-time comparison is wrong.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dcaviation
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:27 pm

B737900ER wrote:
dcaviation wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:


You really want me to start pointing out everything wrong with the airline? I don't have all day.
Like the ticket change in economy class for $1750 from Europe to US.
KL/DL one way ticket on that date in business class was $1500!

I don't get it either. Like cutting off your face to spite your nose. If you are elite you get priority boarding, a free drink, and a snack box, economy plus, and if you are really flying WN you're 20% more likely to be delayed vs UA, for a 30 dollar fare difference, just because someone else pays for a basic economy fare?


When enough is enough? How do I get free drink, snack box and E+ if I buy the E- fare?
I'm yet to be delayed on any of my WN flights. I guess I'm lucky.
As for UA my last TATL flight was canceled. Thank God I was flying first and LH took me under their wings. After flying LH in F for the first time I can't believe that UA gets away with their product and call it First Class.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:14 pm

dcaviation wrote:

When enough is enough? How do I get free drink, snack box and E+ if I buy the E- fare?
I'm yet to be delayed on any of my WN flights. I guess I'm lucky.
As for UA my last TATL flight was canceled. Thank God I was flying first and LH took me under their wings. After flying LH in F for the first time I can't believe that UA gets away with their product and call it First Class.

Don't worry, sometimes folks try to bring up BS stats and red meat arguments to try to justify the unjustifiable.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:44 pm

dcaviation wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
dcaviation wrote:

You really want me to start pointing out everything wrong with the airline? I don't have all day.
Like the ticket change in economy class for $1750 from Europe to US.
KL/DL one way ticket on that date in business class was $1500!

I don't get it either. Like cutting off your face to spite your nose. If you are elite you get priority boarding, a free drink, and a snack box, economy plus, and if you are really flying WN you're 20% more likely to be delayed vs UA, for a 30 dollar fare difference, just because someone else pays for a basic economy fare?

When enough is enough? How do I get free drink, snack box and E+ if I buy the E- fare?
I'm yet to be delayed on any of my WN flights. I guess I'm lucky.
As for UA my last TATL flight was canceled. Thank God I was flying first and LH took me under their wings. After flying LH in F for the first time I can't believe that UA gets away with their product and call it First Class.

If you are elite as you say you are those things are included in your fare. Unless you buy a basic economy ticket. And since the normal fare was comparable to the WN fare I thought we should compare apples to apples. Unless you had some other agenda. As for the flight cancellations, well the completion factors between UA and WN speak for themselves. And if you have yet to be delayed on WN you must not fly them much at all.
Last edited by B737900ER on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA CFO: Basic Economy is driving operational improvements

Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:54 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
dcaviation wrote:

When enough is enough? How do I get free drink, snack box and E+ if I buy the E- fare?
I'm yet to be delayed on any of my WN flights. I guess I'm lucky.
As for UA my last TATL flight was canceled. Thank God I was flying first and LH took me under their wings. After flying LH in F for the first time I can't believe that UA gets away with their product and call it First Class.

Don't worry, sometimes folks try to bring up BS stats and red meat arguments to try to justify the unjustifiable.

Which one of my stats is BS?

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