Didn't see this posted but thought it worth a mention

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-40318846

Got to be one of the incidents of turbulence with most injuries ? Speedy recovery to all

Not buckling up when the plane was descending to land?

huaiwei wrote:

Not buckling up when the plane was descending to land?

Might be a cultural issue. I just flew my first Chinese flights a couple days ago (HND-PEK and then PEK-JFK on Air China) and was surprised at how little deference some passengers give to the rules. The flight attendants really did their best, and were if anything quite strict (they more or less physically tackled a few people who stood up while taxiing, for example), but I understand why they have to be. And never have I heard more announcements about seat belt usage.

Also, I'm not sure if this is also common on Chinese carriers, but the seat belt sign on both of my flights was on for the entire flight. From the announcements, this seemed to be intentional to remind people to keep the seat belt on while seated, because otherwise nobody does it. But all I could think was how self-defeating it was in that case, because there's no indication of when you *really* need the seat belt on, e.g. takeoff and landing. There's no different indicator for "keep seat belt on while seated" vs. "sit down and buckle up *now*". There almost do need to be two different indicator lights.

spacecadet wrote:

huaiwei wrote:

Not buckling up when the plane was descending to land?

Might be a cultural issue. I just flew my first Chinese flights a couple days ago (HND-PEK and then PEK-JFK on Air China) and was surprised at how little deference some passengers give to the rules. The flight attendants really did their best, and were if anything quite strict (they more or less physically tackled a few people who stood up while taxiing, for example), but I understand why they have to be. And never have I heard more announcements about seat belt usage.

Also, I'm not sure if this is also common on Chinese carriers, but the seat belt sign on both of my flights was on for the entire flight. From the announcements, this seemed to be intentional to remind people to keep the seat belt on while seated, because otherwise nobody does it. But all I could think was how self-defeating it was in that case, because there's no indication of when you *really* need the seat belt on, e.g. takeoff and landing. There's no different indicator for "keep seat belt on while seated" vs. "sit down and buckle up *now*". There almost do need to be two different indicator lights.

I fly quite a lot domestically in China and you are right on both counts. Rules and directions tend to be frequently ignored, a very common thing is that the second the plane touches down you have half the plane unbuckling and a dozen or so people jumping up to get their carry on. And the seat belt light is mostly on for the duration of the flight, yes.

I'm on BR 52 right now and we have almost continuous moderate turbulence over the Pacific. The FAs too their seats but passengers didn't seem to care. I saw some people walking their children down the aisles and one woman rocking her baby to sleep standing up.

I've noticed in Asia that he the seatbelt sign means nothing and that the passengers don't really react to turbulence. During turbulence that might get a gasp or a moan in the US, nobody thinks twice here.

Yeah you gotta buckle up. Can't see the injuries this serious if everybody does their part. But definitely, there's no "rule" for a good number of Chinese passengers.

MD80MKE wrote:

Yeah you gotta buckle up. Can't see the injuries this serious if everybody does their part. But definitely, there's no "rule" for a good number of Chinese passengers.

I've flown to a couple of tiny cities in China (on Air China and Hainan), and to paraphrase a movie quote:

"Forget it Jake, it's China"

People get up as soon as you land, push to the front before the door opens, and otherwise ignore rules. They have to verbally inform people not to open the emergency exits because some idiot actually did that.

Best part was we were 10 minutes late and we pushed back in the middle of the safety demonstration, taxied to the runway, and gunned it just as the flight attendants sat down. This was on Hainan.

WorldFlier wrote:

MD80MKE wrote:

Best part was we were 10 minutes late and we pushed back in the middle of the safety demonstration, taxied to the runway, and gunned it just as the flight attendants sat down. This was on Hainan.

I hope the passengers are seated by then too!

A separate article stated the plane continued for 5+ hours to land safely in Kunming. With serious injuries on board?
The lack of seatbelt use is not limited to China. I am concerned at the lack of awareness and disregard for announcements on turbulence I continue to observe on flights in the US.
I was on an AA 738 last week PHL-ORD. The Captain made an announcement on the ground in PHL briefly discussing the flight plan and that he did anticipate a "bumpy ride" at times at various altitudes. He remarked specifically that they had just flown the plane from ORD and had encountered "quite a bumpy ride." Not to frighten and reassured he and ATC would find the smoothest route to ORD, but when advised by signs and crew to "remain seated until further advised." Clear, concise and professional advice from the guy running the show.
The first ding of reality was sitting on the taxiway at PHL in line for runway departure. Passenger gets up and goes into aft galley. I heard a flight attendant say "Sir, we're on the active taxiway and ready for takeoff." He remarked back "Sorry Too much coffee." and closed the lav door. He did make it back to his seat before we resumed taxiing.
Once airborne, total disregard for 3 specific announcements to remain seated with "seatbelt fastened" by both cockpit and F/A crews due to "rough air." Beverage service was suspended at one point for 30 minutes and F/A's had to sit down. 5 people walked past me in last row 30 to get to lav. People retrieving items from overhead bins that contents could have become airborne missiles to anyone seated nearby. Stupid. You need a sweater right this moment? Maybe to stuff in your mouth to muffle the screams of terror while we lurch in the skies of unfriendly Indiana?
And to top off just this one simple, ho hum, routine 2 hour flight to Chicago, upon landing we taxied for almost 20 minutes. I think we landed in Indiana actually. We stopped at one point and a lady stood up and remained standing even when we resumed moving. A F/A at this point actually came out of the rear jumpseat and spoke directly to her to "sit down before you're thrown to the floor" because we "are not at the gate yet and you can't get off." The lady made some smartass remark and sat down and F/A walked away with a very concerned look on her face. Complain to AA. F/A rude and "told me to sit down."
Yes I am a former crew member. I started flying very bumpy flights on a propjet in 1969. It was drilled in me that my safety and those of my passengers were paramount to service and at 8000-15000 feet altitudes we'd all experience varying degrees of flying drama. It was also drilled to be courteous and rudeness could result in termination. I did not attempt to woo my passengers when all crap was breaking loose in a summer thunderstorm in NC or a winter approach in the mountains of WVA.
I actually received a complaint from 2 female passengers who said I failed to serve them during the flight. They were nervous and had requested cocktails. I was unable to serve anyone due to turbulence (including a missed approach in a thunderstorm) and that I "had totally disregarded their welfare to talk on the phone with someone."
It was the Captain telling me to "f-ing hang on and keep you a** planted in a seat."
My Base Manager laughed at this escapade and told me "We do sell tickets to stupid people."
Listen up Folks. Buckle up and keep "your a** planted in that seat!

PI4EVER wrote:

The lack of seatbelt use is not limited to China. I am concerned at the lack of awareness and disregard for announcements on turbulence I continue to observe on flights in the US.

Yeah, but if my two flights last week were at all representative, and from others here it seems like they were, then it's just on another level in China. I fly domestically pretty often and sure, some people are idiots and ignore the rules, but by and large people do follow them. On Chinese flights, though, it just feels like *nobody* cares. I really feel for those flight attendants, who are probably trying not to get in trouble themselves by not enforcing the rules.

Let's not forget also that the only victims of the Asiana crash at SFO a few years ago were Chinese girls not wearing their seat belts on landing. And sure, that could have just been kids from anywhere being kids, but I really think it's probably just a cultural thing. You know, most people in the US refused to wear seat belts in the cars for many years, but now basically everybody does, and it's a normal thing to do. Cultures just sometimes need to change over time with regard to things like this.

In the US, I think many times people don't follow the sign because it stays on forever with little or no turbulence and almost seems used as crowd control. In my last domestic flight in the US, ORD-PHX, I was surprised that the captain made several announcements about how important he takes the seatbelt sign and he does not leave it on unnecessarily and because of that he expects us to mind it too. Also, he told us that he would have cabin crew sit at the top of descent into PHX because other planes were radioing it was moderate to severe turbulence. It ended up not being that bad.

Having taken several flights in China each year over the past 11, I think it has gotten better. To be fair, I fly mainly business trunk routes though. I've seen more issues from Drunken passengers than anything to do with culture, especially the Aussie guy who was trying to close an overhead bin during a rough landing and slurring his speech to the FA who eventually gave up and took her seat lest she be the injured party. The Chinese passengers rushing to do anything is the worst, rush to board, rush to exit, and yet, they'll all happily queue up to enter a crowd controlled Valentino store.

huaiwei wrote:

WorldFlier wrote:

MD80MKE wrote:

Best part was we were 10 minutes late and we pushed back in the middle of the safety demonstration, taxied to the runway, and gunned it just as the flight attendants sat down. This was on Hainan.

I hope the passengers are seated by then too!

I think everyone was seated during take-off, but as soon as we hit a few thousand feet people were getting up and roaming around.

For all of its faults (and craziness) China is much more fun. The USA is so vanilla, safe, and boring. Even the small towns have nightlife (lu 串 being my favorite)!

Never been to China, but if there aren't mandatory seatbelt laws there for cars (like there are in the US, and I suspect in a lot of Europe), it's not going to carry onto an airplane there, either.

Buckling up in the US is so ingrained into our culture these days ...

Please. Do we need another reminder that assuming uneducated/rulebreaking passengers is NOT the only reason why we might see injuries when there's severe turbulence? People going to the bathroom, cabin crew getting hurt, carts flying around the cabin, laptops and the like flying around, etc etc This is a 744, so you would assume some fraction of people to be moving for one reason or the other at any given instant of time.

AirlineCritic wrote:

Please. Do we need another reminder that assuming uneducated/rulebreaking passengers is NOT the only reason why we might see injuries when there's severe turbulence? People going to the bathroom, cabin crew getting hurt, carts flying around the cabin, laptops and the like flying around, etc etc This is a 744, so you would assume some fraction of people to be moving for one reason or the other at any given instant of time.

It was actually an A330, 744 was actually the flight number, I guess.

Flight was actually 774, according to Avherald:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4aa98ee7&opt=0