DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

TriniA340 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:13 am

I can only imagine the beast of a long-range freighter an A340 (of any variant) would have made! An A343F at least, may have had much better payload & range capability than the A333F. Too bad there wasn't demand for it.

Allee · Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:42 am

MajMattMason wrote:
These A333 P2F's acquisitions, are they to replace or augment the existing fleet? If replace, I assume it's going to be for the A300's?
Anyone know what the fate of the B757 fleet is??

The 757-200SF fleet is being replaced by 757-200PCF. So far, DHL Air has added 12 PCF and EAT Leipzig has added 6 PCF.

MajMattMason · Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:19 pm

Allee wrote:
MajMattMason wrote:
These A333 P2F's acquisitions, are they to replace or augment the existing fleet? If replace, I assume it's going to be for the A300's?
Anyone know what the fate of the B757 fleet is??

The 757-200SF fleet is being replaced by 757-200PCF. So far, DHL Air has added 12 PCF and EAT Leipzig has added 6 PCF.

Thx Allee!

When I saw press releases a few weeks back about Precision and ATSG Announce Joint Venture for Passenger-to-Freighter Conversion of Airbus A321-200 Aircraft, my first thought was replacement of DHL's 757's.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170807005084/en/Precision-ATSG-Announce-Joint-Venture-Passenger-to-Freighter-Conversion

Stitch · Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:07 pm

TriniA340 wrote:
I can only imagine the beast of a long-range freighter an A340 (of any variant) would have made! An A343F at least, may have had much better payload & range capability than the A333F. Too bad there wasn't demand for it.

The A340-300P2F would have offered the same ~60,000kg payload as the A330-300P2F per Airbus statements at the time when they were proposing an A330/A340P2F program using EDW's facilities (eventually only going forward with the A330 family). The main advantage would have been an additional 37% design range (9200km to 6700km).

TriniA340 · Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:42 pm

Stitch wrote:
The A340-300P2F would have offered the same ~60,000kg payload as the A330-300P2F per Airbus statements at the time when they were proposing an A330/A340P2F program using EDW's facilities (eventually only going forward with the A330 family). The main advantage would have been an additional 37% design range (9200km to 6700km).

How is it that the A343P2F would carry so much less than an MD-11F (~90T)? Aren't these comparable aircraft? And the A343 has a lot higher MTOW than the A333...what am I missing?

Stitch · Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:05 am

TriniA340 wrote:
How is it that the A343P2F would carry so much less than an MD-11F (~90T)? Aren't these comparable aircraft?

The MD-11F offers about 7% more volume, but the real difference between the two is their MZFW, which determines the amount of payload they can lift. As a new-build freighter, the MD-11F offered an MZFW of almost 205,000kg which is significantly more than the 174-183,000kg the A340-300 passenger models did. Hence the MD-11 being able to carry up to tens of thousands of kilograms more payload.

TriniA340 wrote:
And the A343 has a lot higher MTOW than the A333...what am I missing?

The A340-300's MZFW is only about 4% higher than the A330-300 (167-175,000kg compared to 174-183,000kg) so their usable payloads are similar, as well. The extra MTOW the A340-300 offers allows it to tank more fuel to fly farther.

TriniA340 · Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:00 am

Thanks a lot, I appreciate your time taken to write this! I did a little reading up on MZFW and other weights, which I never really paid much attn to. So does MZFW - OEW = An approximation of the payload? If so,
My question now is if an A343 has a MZFW/OEW of 183T/129T (An A343F might be closer to 195T/115T) & an MD-11F has a MZFW/OEW of 205T/112T, shouldn't the A343F be able to haul more? Maybe I am over-simplifying it.

Stitch · Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:34 am

TriniA340 wrote:
Thanks a lot, I appreciate your time taken to write this! I did a little reading up on MZFW and other weights, which I never really paid much attn to. So does MZFW - OEW = An approximation of the payload? If so,
My question now is if an A343 has a MZFW/OEW of 183T/129T (An A343F might be closer to 195T/115T) & an MD-11F has a MZFW/OEW of 205T/112T, shouldn't the A343F be able to haul more? Maybe I am over-simplifying it.

Yes, MZFW-OEW generally equals Maximum Payload. However, dedicated freighters may have more structural reinforcement in areas like the wings and fuselage to allow heavier loads to be carried whereas the passenger frame, while it will have reinforcement in areas like the floor and around the cargo door during the conversion process, are often not able to be done to the same level which can limit just how much it can carry without damaging the airframe. And that reinforcement adds weight, so while a new-build freighter is lighter than the equivalent passenger model, a passenger-to-freighter conversion could end up being heavier as a freighter than it was as a passenger frame and that will eat into the payload.

TriniA340 · Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:45 am

Thanks, makes sense. Can't wait to see DHL's A330F fully painted. I was also looking at the A350's weight figures....I feel like it'll make a decently capable freighter.

BOEING777EK · Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:58 pm

The 5th A330-300(P2F) for DHL has arried at Dresden with flight number TG8906 Ex. Thai A330-300 HS-TEL after conversion aircraft will get registration D-AAAE? This airframe CN231 is 19 years old and wore the "Star Alliance Thai livery".

zeke · Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:55 pm

Bluebird191 wrote:
With the A333 P2F being able to uplift just 1 tonne more than the A332 P2F, what is the use of it? Unless mail/courier carriers like DHL want the extra volume over the lack of extra weight uplift - the internal volume is the only thing I can think of that would be of benefit to airlines.

DHL is a package freight company they makes money by moving more packages (volume) not by more weight. The A330P2F would have close to the volume as a MD-11F with much reduced fuel burn.

zeke · Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:57 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
The 5th A330-300(P2F) for DHL has arried at Dresden with flight number TG8906 Ex. Thai A330-300 HS-TEL after conversion aircraft will get registration D-AAAE? This airframe CN231 is 19 years old and wore the "Star Alliance Thai livery".

Seem to recall that from being parked at BKK for some time.

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:23 am

BOEING777EK wrote:
The 5th A330-300(P2F) for DHL has arried at Dresden with flight number TG8906 Ex. Thai A330-300 HS-TEL after conversion aircraft will get registration D-AAAE? This airframe CN231 is 19 years old and wore the "Star Alliance Thai livery".

It has a slightly different registration:

Airbus A330 -322 231 D-AAEC EAT Leipzig seen regd at DRS 12sep17 during P2F conversion ex HS-TEL

WIederling · Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:17 am

TriniA340 wrote:

How is it that the A343P2F would carry so much less than an MD-11F (~90T)? Aren't these comparable aircraft? And the A343 has a lot higher MTOW than the A333...what am I missing?

MZFW

BOEING777EK · Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:29 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
BOEING777EK wrote:
The 5th A330-300(P2F) for DHL has arried at Dresden with flight number TG8906 Ex. Thai A330-300 HS-TEL after conversion aircraft will get registration D-AAAE? This airframe CN231 is 19 years old and wore the "Star Alliance Thai livery".

It has a slightly different registration:

Airbus A330 -322 231 D-AAEC EAT Leipzig seen regd at DRS 12sep17 during P2F conversion ex HS-TEL

Are you sure? because according to PlanespottersNET HS-TEA is registered as D-AAEC and HS-TEL still needs an update as it still shows that its still stored at Bangkok.

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:37 pm

According to ATDB, the acquisition of HS-TEA / MSN 50 has been cancelled and HS-TEL / MSN 231 has been selected instead.

HS-TEA is stored at UTP, HS-TEL is already at DRS.

BOEING777EK · Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:32 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
According to ATDB, the acquisition of HS-TEA / MSN 50 has been cancelled and HS-TEL / MSN 231 has been selected instead.

HS-TEA is stored at UTP, HS-TEL is already at DRS.

Insteresting I'm actually surprised that DHL took a younger airframe maybe because of the PW4164s which are found at various Thai airframes led to them selecting TEL because it has 4168 engines instead would actually been instereting seeing the 4164s entering back in operation again. Maybe because TEL had fewer cycles compared to TEA and possibly due to airframe conditions.

BOEING777EK

BOEING777EK · Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:29 pm

The conversion of the first Airbus A330-300(P2F) for DHL is completed and redelivery should be ready by end of 2017

BOEING777EK · Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:32 pm

The third Airbus A330-300(P2F) for DHL D-AAEC Ex. Thai HS-TEL is seen stored at Dresden with engines removed.

Dutchy · Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:04 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
The conversion of the first Airbus A330-300(P2F) for DHL is completed and redelivery should be ready by end of 2017

I love the "duck tape" look, very post modern :lol:

AirportRival · Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:35 pm

Is that a tail stand? Do A330-300's require tail stands?

BOEING777EK · Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:46 pm

The first Airbus A330-300(P2F) CN 116 for DHL is seen taxiing back to the hanger after a high power run.

KarelXWB · Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:06 pm

Here's a video that shows how the conversion work is done:

https://youtu.be/vmj6_ui49tM

BOEING777EK · Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:51 pm

Here's another photo of D-AAEC the third A330-300(P2F) waiting to be converted, stored at another location with engine parts completely removed.

Newbiepilot · Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:00 am

BOEING777EK wrote:
The conversion of the first Airbus A330-300(P2F) for DHL is completed and redelivery should be ready by end of 2017

Wow, judging from all the new aluminum it looks like they had to reinforce every frame on the lower section of he fuselage. That is much more extensive of a modification than a 767 conversion, which typically only needs reinforcement near the new cargo door and adjacent to any prior repairs. I wonder why so much reinforcement is needed on the A330

ikolkyo · Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:32 am

I’m surprised it’s even worthwhile to convert an A330 to a freighter with all that reinforcement.

Max Q · Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:20 am

That’s a good point, almost the whole airframe had to be rebuilt and reinforced

Stitch · Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:07 am

Max Q wrote:
That’s a good point, almost the whole airframe had to be rebuilt and reinforced

Could part of it be due to being an ex-TG airframe operated in a humid and salty environment?

Stitch · Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:21 am

Stitch wrote:
Max Q wrote:
That’s a good point, almost the whole airframe had to be rebuilt and reinforced

Could part of it be due to being an ex-TG airframe operated in a humid and salty environment?

Never mind - the video KarelXWB posted earlier shows that is normal reinforcement for the conversion.

KarelXWB · Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:39 am

ikolkyo wrote:
I’m surprised it’s even worthwhile to convert an A330 to a freighter with all that reinforcement.

It's still much cheaper than buying a brand new A330 freighter.

ZEDZAG · Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:34 am

KarelXWB wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
I’m surprised it’s even worthwhile to convert an A330 to a freighter with all that reinforcement.

It's still much cheaper than buying a brand new A330 freighter.

And some specs of weights?

Stitch · Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:55 pm

ZEDZAG wrote:
And some specs of weights?

Payload for an A330-200P2F is 60,000kg compared to up to 70,000kg for the A330-200F. A330-200P2F range at 60,000kg is very similar to the range of the A330-200F at 65,000kg.

BOEING777EK · Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:17 pm

And there she is airborne

Taking off for her first safety flight after sitting in the ground for more than two years completing conversion work.

ikolkyo · Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:43 pm

Did they add some lights to the fuselage near the cargo door? Very similar to the MD-11.

lightsaber · Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:52 pm

Stitch wrote:
ZEDZAG wrote:
And some specs of weights?

Payload for an A330-200P2F is 60,000kg compared to up to 70,000kg for the A330-200F. A330-200P2F range at 60,000kg is very similar to the range of the A330-200F at 65,000kg.

Thank you for all the numbers.

The reality is the A340P2F is only of value at range where the 777F dominates. The higher the utilization, the earlier buying new pays off and long haul is by definition high utilization.

Freight is finally recovering. But there are so many two deck effective combis that the fraction of freight on the main deck will drop:. 77W/778)779, A35X, 788/787-10, and A333/A339. The latest solid modeling software all has great kinematics tools that allow easier/cheaper design of modular kits that fold up better.

The A33XP2F will do well. In particular once used A339s become available. I'm convinced half the reason for the new higher MTOW being engineered is future resale for P2F.

Lightsaber

BOEING777EK · Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:02 am

DHL A330(P2F) D-AAEA is doing a go around at 1st acceptance flight

BOEING777EK · Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:04 am

And she's touching down after completing 1st acceptance flight

Now taxiing towards the ATC tower.

Now she's parked at stand 38

eicvd · Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:25 pm

According to other websites she'll be flown for DHL by ASL Ireland as EI-HEA

KarelXWB · Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:38 pm

It was a long test flight. Any clue where it will be painted in DHL colors?

Airbus A330 -322(F) 116 EI-HEA ASL Airlines (Ireland) air-test at DRS 06oct17, D-reg after freighter conversion ex D-AAEA

BOEING777EK · Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:12 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
It was a long test flight. Any clue where it will be painted in DHL colors?

Airbus A330 -322(F) 116 EI-HEA ASL Airlines (Ireland) air-test at DRS 06oct17, D-reg after freighter conversion ex D-AAEA

Since all A300's in the ASL fleet wear the DHL colours there's no doubt that this one will also be painted in DHL livery too also this will stay with DHL for a while before starting operations for the ASL team. But things may change without a second glance.

BOEING777EK

Aviaponcho · Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:14 pm

A330-322 is 218t MTOW Max
Can all those patch be a sign of going to A330-323 ?

Stitch · Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:23 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
A330-322 is 218t MTOW Max. Can all those patch be a sign of going to A330-323?

That patching is the structural reinforcement necessary to support the conversion from passenger to freighter use. I would not expect the operating weights of the airframe to change during the conversion. So whatever the airframe is certified for as a passenger frame, I would expect it to be the same for the freighter after conversion.

Aviaponcho · Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:31 pm

Thanks

CX747 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:29 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
DHL A330(P2F) D-AAEA is doing a go around at 1st acceptance flight

Looking at these photos, that is a ton of reinforcement work that has been done. Specifically when you look at the numerous 767s that are going through the same process for Amazon and other carriers.

airzona11 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:44 pm

That is a good looking plane, Would be cool to see airlines do like JetBlue and have the technical drawing as the paint job.

b747400erf · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:19 pm

Why 2 runway turnoff lights on each side?

rbavfan · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:53 pm

codc10 wrote:
It would seem that AA has a few (9) candidates for P2F conversion leaving the fleet in the next few years...

If DHL has Pratt powered fleet. Why would they want AA's A330's. It would just add another engine type to maintain & increase cost.

BOEING777EK · Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:14 pm

rbavfan wrote:
codc10 wrote:
It would seem that AA has a few (9) candidates for P2F conversion leaving the fleet in the next few years...

If DHL has Pratt powered fleet. Why would they want AA's A330's. It would just add another engine type to maintain & increase cost.

The nine A330-300's which will leave the AA fleet are powered by Pratt and Whittney engines I'm assuming you're talking about the A330-200 and yes it has Rolls-Royce engines those A332's aren't leaving the AA fleet anytime soon. But DHL also has half of the eight fleet of A330's on order and booked some are which in conversion as of today even if the Nine A333's leave the AA fleet it will most likely be two or three A330's which will then be transferred to DHL for conversion but keep in mind that DHL also has options for Ten more A333's (F's) and if they need the growth then they will get most if not all the AA Airframes we will have to see and wait as of now.

BOEING777EK

bergkampsticket · Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:54 pm

AirportRival wrote:
Is that a tail stand? Do A330-300's require tail stands?

Maybe due to the engines being removed and lower weight.

Channex757 · Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:36 pm

MajMattMason wrote:
These A333 P2F's acquisitions, are they to replace or augment the existing fleet? If replace, I assume it's going to be for the A300's?
Anyone know what the fate of the B757 fleet is??

DHL have been swapping a lot of aircraft recently. They just took a pair of late build 757s from AA for conversion.

This is a fairly up to date list of the UK-registered DHL fleet

http://jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/dhl_air.htm

The older 757s have been going to the breakers recently, with newer models (and better engines) replacing them.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net