manny
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:21 pm

Great way to upgrade your product.
 
ukjohna
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:35 pm

AirbusA343 wrote:
Don't know if these aircraft will serve what FR24 says they will....

A7-ADD should arrive at LHR at 8:59pm. Tomorrow then, it should go to Sofia and back (BA890/1) and then a trip to Madrid (BA464/5)


I'm due to fly on BA891 SOF-LHR tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if A7-ADD is actually on the route.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:03 pm

bhdw787 wrote:
...they are asking for a living wage; a wage which covers their costs".


What confuses me and no doubt many others, why an earth did the employees in question sign a contract of employment when they knew the pay was mediocre?
 
Eirules
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:10 pm

Will the product on board in business be BA or QR?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
User avatar
AirbusA343
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:38 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:41 pm

ukjohna wrote:
AirbusA343 wrote:
Don't know if these aircraft will serve what FR24 says they will....

A7-ADD should arrive at LHR at 8:59pm. Tomorrow then, it should go to Sofia and back (BA890/1) and then a trip to Madrid (BA464/5)


I'm due to fly on BA891 SOF-LHR tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if A7-ADD is actually on the route.

Will be more than happy to know the outcome of that :)
 
JulietteBravo
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:25 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:48 am

G-CIVP wrote:
bhdw787 wrote:
...they are asking for a living wage; a wage which covers their costs".


What confuses me and no doubt many others, why an earth did the employees in question sign a contract of employment when they knew the pay was mediocre?


Pressure? Fear of losing your job?
 
Virtual737
Posts: 673
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:46 am

G-CIVP wrote:
bhdw787 wrote:
...they are asking for a living wage; a wage which covers their costs".


What confuses me and no doubt many others, why an earth did the employees in question sign a contract of employment when they knew the pay was mediocre?


Perhaps because they know UK employment law is much more employee focused than many others. Perhaps they did no due diligence (yeah right, as if they didn't know the salary). Perhaps their circumstances changed and they now need more money so will use whichever lawful route possible. Lawful, but not right, in my humble opinion.

What I would like to know is... what is a real GROSS pay amount for one of these staff? I've seen "take home" pay described as around £1000 (why did you accept a job in London even 6 years ago for that rate?). I would like to see this gross figure with all payments included for an average crew working normal hours, with all the extras that might be included (an ex was VS crew and a good amount of her pay was in cash at the destination - no idea if there is anything like this). No need to include perks.

Many many people in the UK are paid less today in real terms than they were in 2011 because of inflation etc. Train fares rise higher than salaries. If THIS is the fight, welcome to the club BA mixed fleet, but please don't make a song and dance about your pay and conditions being so much worse than most others. Do you have to live in London? Staines, Slough, Reading, Maidenhead, Bromley, Watford plus a hundred other places are within the specified travel time surely? Yes, London (not so much Heathrow) can be a bitch to get to, but it was when you took the job too. Why choose to work in London at such a low rate (especially if you live in London)?

If your circumstances have changed and you need more cash, why should your employers circumstances be forced to be changed? I am not disputing your legal right to strike. That is your choice. What I do dispute is... are your working conditions really THAT much different than they were when you signed the contract?

As some background, I am British and was PAYE (normal pay tax as you earn employee) for the first 26 years of my career and self employed since. If I need others to work for me I use sub contractors only. I would not dare employ anyone directly because of the bias of UK employment law.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 673
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:53 am

JulietteBravo wrote:
Pressure? Fear of losing your job?


Pressure from who? BA? Did be pressgang them into working for BA?

Fear of losing their job? At the time of signing they weren't BA employees so it wasn't a BA job they were losing. Isn't that between them and their previous employer?

I might be missing something, but I'm not aware that previous BA employees were forced into a new mixed fleet contract. Those that chose this contract as former employees were given £10k as a one off payment?
 
BelAviaFan
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:18 am

And they are flying! A7-AFA to Brussels.
BelAviaFan: Belgian Aviation Fan
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:52 am

XLA2008 wrote:

You can't dismiss someone from their position if they are planning or on strike providing it is legally done! And to just be dismissed from a contract in the U.K. Is actually pretty hard, employers have to follow certain steps to address the problems with the employee through disciplinary procedures before they as a company can legally dismiss someone, the only way to dismiss someone immediately is through negligence or gross misconduct which again has its own set of laws covering what that can and can't include. UK employment law very much protects employees more than employers for the most part!


Some of the employee protections, particularly in respect of unfair dismissal have been quietly but effectively gutted in the last couple of years. The way this was achieved was by raising the filing fee for bringing a claim for unfair dismissal to 1200 pounds (heck bringing a claim of unpaid wages costs 390 - which is frankly outrageous) which make it totally unaffordable for most (considering those bringing that claim will likely be without a job).

It's a good thing that vast swathes of the UK workforce are not employees at will (although with zero hours contracts that too is effectively changing).

It will be really interesting to see how Qatar is crewing these services. Are they all EU nationals (to avoid visa issues)? Where are these people all staying? Presumably to run a reasonably full schedule you will need about 2.5 full crews per aircraft (so about 5 cockpit and 10 cabin crew) x 9 aircraft = a lot of hotel rooms.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:43 am

Virtual737 wrote:
What I would like to know is... what is a real GROSS pay amount for one of these staff? I've seen "take home" pay described as around £1000 (why did you accept a job in London even 6 years ago for that rate?). I would like to see this gross figure with all payments included for an average crew working normal hours, with all the extras that might be included (an ex was VS crew and a good amount of her pay was in cash at the destination - no idea if there is anything like this). No need to include perks.


Take home of £1,000 on PAYE is about £13,000 - £14,0000. On the mixed fleet contract there's some basic hourly flight pay on top and speculating, a contributory pension. Personally, I think the strikers are losing sight of the real benefit of the job; it is to see the world on the cheap for 2 to 3 years, then go off and get an alternative career. In my view, the job isn't really for someone who wants a serious career.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:45 am

luftaom wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
Some of the employee protections, particularly in respect of unfair dismissal have been quietly but effectively gutted in the last couple of years. The way this was achieved was by raising the filing fee for bringing a claim for unfair dismissal to 1200 pounds (heck bringing a claim of unpaid wages costs 390 - which is frankly outrageous) which make it totally unaffordable for most (considering those bringing that claim will likely be without a job).


The main reason why the thresholds were raised was due to the volume of speculative and spurious claims being made. If you need to revert to the law for unpaid wages for £390, I would suggest the Small Claims Court rather than an Employment Tribunal.
 
sk736
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:51 am

G-CIVP wrote:
luftaom wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
Some of the employee protections, particularly in respect of unfair dismissal have been quietly but effectively gutted in the last couple of years. The way this was achieved was by raising the filing fee for bringing a claim for unfair dismissal to 1200 pounds (heck bringing a claim of unpaid wages costs 390 - which is frankly outrageous) which make it totally unaffordable for most (considering those bringing that claim will likely be without a job).


The main reason why the thresholds were raised was due to the volume of speculative and spurious claims being made. If you need to revert to the law for unpaid wages for £390, I would suggest the Small Claims Court rather than an Employment Tribunal.

Unpaid wages claims come under the legal heading of "unlawful deduction of wages". These claims are heard by Employment Tribunals.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:59 am

From the BA website 99.5% are flying, only Muscat, Doha and Abuja have been cancelled.

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/f ... faqid=5783
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2539
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:09 am

DOH is a JV route with QR. QR have 5 daily flights to LHR, BA only the one 787. Im sure QR will be accommodating the misplaced BA/QR passengers.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:45 am

sk736 wrote:
Unpaid wages claims come under the legal heading of "unlawful deduction of wages". These claims are heard by Employment Tribunals.


Are you a Solicitor? I was suggesting an alternative avenue to an Employment Tribunal to prevent paying excessive Court Costs for processing the claim.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclai ... aims-court

To be honest, we are arguing over a hypothetical situation which isn't my problem!
 
ukjohna
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:59 am

Letter to passengers at SOF check-in.

https://flic.kr/p/VHHKVy
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 9608
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:26 am

BrianDromey wrote:
DOH is a JV route with QR. QR have 5 daily flights to LHR, BA only the one 787. Im sure QR will be accommodating the misplaced BA/QR passengers.


Actually QR have 6 daily flights to LHR, 2 x A388, 2 x A359, 1 x 788 and 1 x 77W. On BA's daily flight to DOH its operated by a 772 not a 787
Forum Moderator
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4631
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:00 am

@G-CIVP really means is be grateful for minimum rest downroute while they pay you peanuts then get lost to a "new career" once it wears you down. Would you accept that? Unions exist to prevent employers taking the **** and while Unite gets too left wing for me, never lose sight of the good they have done.
For example, take union free Qatar, is that an employment model you'd want for your kids?
 
User avatar
3rdGen
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:19 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:04 am

QR will be sending the oldest 320s in the fleet.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1062
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:11 pm

Also arriving this evening is a HiFly Malta A343... 9H-JAI.... ex SQ/EK machine.

Think it's 1st flight is an LHR-EDI-LHR rotation tomorrow morning.out at 08:55, back at 13:00
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:16 pm

So well any more news or pics, is this a wet lease?
 
sk736
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:53 pm

G-CIVP wrote:
sk736 wrote:
Unpaid wages claims come under the legal heading of "unlawful deduction of wages". These claims are heard by Employment Tribunals.


Are you a Solicitor? I was suggesting an alternative avenue to an Employment Tribunal to prevent paying excessive Court Costs for processing the claim.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclai ... aims-court

To be honest, we are arguing over a hypothetical situation which isn't my problem!

I understand your point but employment tribunals deal with these claims - the claimant can't choose to have it heard elsewhere.
 
shuttle9juliet
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:37 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Also arriving this evening is a HiFly Malta A343... 9H-JAI.... ex SQ/EK machine.

Think it's 1st flight is an LHR-EDI-LHR rotation tomorrow morning.out at 08:55, back at 13:00


That's just covering for a sick 76, as EDI shuttles are Euro Fleet.
Anyway, it would be nice to get on the old coal burner though...
 
ukjohna
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:05 pm

Landed LHR and parked on a hard stand east of T5C along with 3 other Qatar 320s. I guess BA are trying to keep them out of sight from T5A and most of the public.
 
User avatar
Markie73
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 3:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:48 pm

Does anybody know if Qatar are providing a full in flight service on the covering flights for BA during the strike?.
 
ukjohna
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strikeThanks

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:58 pm

Markie73 wrote:
Does anybody know if Qatar are providing a full in flight service on the covering flights for BA during the strike?.


At least on the flight from SOF, the Club Europe service was provided with BA menus, food, glasses and cutlery.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 673
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:13 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Would you accept that? Unions exist to prevent employers taking the **** and while Unite gets too left wing for me, never lose sight of the good they have done.
For example, take union free Qatar, is that an employment model you'd want for your kids?


They already did accept that, when they took the job, and the Union's existence didn't stop the paltry offer or them accepting the terms. Look, I'm all for fair pay, but I'm not for accepting a strike when your terms are no more different now then when you signed up than they are for the vast majority of other low paid positions. Capitalism and market rate at work. If the pay was too low, there wouldn't be enough takers.

In terms of Qatar, BA are borrowing/leasing some of their frames, nothing more, so I'm not really sure why you refer to their employment model when referring to BA.
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:18 pm

G-CIVP wrote:
sk736 wrote:
Unpaid wages claims come under the legal heading of "unlawful deduction of wages". These claims are heard by Employment Tribunals.


Are you a Solicitor? I was suggesting an alternative avenue to an Employment Tribunal to prevent paying excessive Court Costs for processing the claim.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclai ... aims-court

To be honest, we are arguing over a hypothetical situation which isn't my problem!



I stand by the accuracy of my original comment regarding filing fees and agree with sk736 that the small claims court is not an option.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:21 pm

luftaom & sk736 - See under "Steps to take following unlawful deduction of wages".

http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/small- ... ge-dispute
 
bhdw787
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:46 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:22 pm

So much hate for striking crew on this thread, we get you're all the big chief armchair CEOs of Buttercup Airways et al....no need to go on about how superior you are to everybody else, we've all heard it a thousand times before, we understand the fact these Cabin Crew can't afford to eat doesn't concern you....we understand that they're 'only' Cabin Crew (I mean they're basically just waitresses in the sky, right? What right do they have to pursue fair pay and working conditions? all they want to do is swan about on a plane pouting anyway) it's like a dull droning in the ear! I'd like to make something absolutely crystal clear, the contracts on Mixed Fleet have changed, the working conditions have changed and the pay has fallen even without accounting for inflation and tax changes. This group of Cabin Crew have the choice to take industrial action over fair pay and the illegal removal of benefits, it's their choice, not yours.....what you think about it and how strongly you disagree is going to have absolutely no bearing on their decision, just this once it's about them, its about providing for their families, not about putting everybody else first. Don't approve of allowing people to stand up for themselves? Move to North Korea. Bye Felicia!
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:51 pm

G-CIVP wrote:
luftaom & sk736 - See under "Steps to take following unlawful deduction of wages".

http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/small- ... ge-dispute



I'm fairly sure that that was written before the recent changes (and is now out of date)
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 673
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:08 pm

bhdw787 wrote:
So much hate for striking crew on this thread, we get you're all the big chief armchair CEOs of Buttercup Airways et al....no need to go on about how superior you are to everybody else, we've all heard it a thousand times before, we understand the fact these Cabin Crew can't afford to eat doesn't concern you....we understand that they're 'only' Cabin Crew (I mean they're basically just waitresses in the sky, right? What right do they have to pursue fair pay and working conditions? all they want to do is swan about on a plane pouting anyway) it's like a dull droning in the ear! I'd like to make something absolutely crystal clear, the contracts on Mixed Fleet have changed, the working conditions have changed and the pay has fallen even without accounting for inflation and tax changes. This group of Cabin Crew have the choice to take industrial action over fair pay and the illegal removal of benefits, it's their choice, not yours.....what you think about it and how strongly you disagree is going to have absolutely no bearing on their decision, just this once it's about them, its about providing for their families, not about putting everybody else first. Don't approve of allowing people to stand up for themselves? Move to North Korea. Bye Felicia!


You haven't directed the post at anyone in particular so I'll reply as if you're directing at least some of it to me. There is no hate for the striking crew, I am making discussion. As far as I know a.net isn't used by the mediation panel so no comment here will make but a bit of difference to either the striking crew or BA, but that's not the point of the comments.

At some point these employees need to face up to reality. They are in a relatively low skilled job (any job where the training is measured in weeks IMHO is relatively low skilled. I'm not saying that to be derogatory in anyway, simply saying it as it is. Note that I've written low skilled, not unskilled) and the fare paying public have decided that ticket price is more important than anything else and so any position that is relatively low skilled will attract relatively low pay. This doesn't mean that they are just waitresses in the sky (what about the waiters?) or just want to swan about, but it does mean they have chosen a job that probably wont support any aspirations any time in the mid term, let alone the long term. It's time to look for a career change. Just a fact of life. There are some jobs I'd like to try but I wont because they just don't pay enough, plus I'm probably too old to be a bikini waxer anyway.

I'd be interested to see what percentage of the strikers are within the first 2 years of their contracts. I've tried to find data about how long after joining BA you can join Unite and how long after joining Unite you can ballot to strike but I can't so I'm going to make a guess that both are very short time periods. Again, only IMHO, if your contract hasn't changed since you agreed to it, you shouldn't be able to strike based on the contract (unless it was an illegal contract in which case a strike shouldn't be necessary). The same for pay. If you've been in the job for a few years and the pay / conditions have deteriorated then fill your boots and good luck to you.

The world is not perfect. Neither are the unions. If they were, their General Secretary probably wouldn't be paid the same amount as the Prime Minister (whoever that is this week), and wouldn't get 60% of his London flat paid for by the union (which is all about solidarity, apparently). Having a head office on prime London real estate might also cause some smirks. As for being totally political, paying the Labour party ~£4M per year while paying £0 corporation tax well, let's just not go there. My biggest issue with the unions is that they seem to be totally blind to the fact that an airline (and any other business) has to be competitive or it will die. You could argue that the airline should be more sympathetic to the employees and is equally as blind - there should be some middle ground, but unfortunately that's not how airlines or unions negotiate.

Unfortunately these crew have chosen a career in which they are easily replaced. Do I have sympathy? Yes. Do I think they should stand up for themselves? Absolutely. Do I think striking is the best bet? Absolutely not. They will still be low paid employees and even if they get their rise / benefits or whatever because of the strike action they will be in the same position yet again not long after. The only way they will change their financials in the longer term is with a career change. The LCCs have seen to that. Not once do I say that these individuals shouldn't be remunerated fairly, but unfortunately it's the market that dictates what is fair. Until there are less applications than there are cabin crew positions, this isn't going to change any time soon.
 
TC957
Posts: 3627
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:48 pm

I was at LHR all day today from just after 8am and only saw 4 QR 320's flying - A7-ADC/D/F/G.
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1252
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:51 pm

BA is posturing by applying to wet lease Qatar or maybe someone else's aircraft. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
n729pa
Posts: 1132
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:20 pm

I was at LHR this morning before heading to CDO and saw 5 of the A320s. One was parked right over by where T1 is, lookIngleton from thwhich observation deck at T4.
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:09 am

Is it just planning that the Qatar airplanes have only been (so far) planned foronly 3 mixed fleet routes? (Kiev, Sofia and Oslo)
 
FlyUSAir
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:26 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:46 am

Say what you want about Ryanair (I do), but they actually fly! Time for BA, AF, and LH to either fire these people or shutdown operations.

Image
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
MD82/MD83/MD88/MD90 Q100/Q400
 
Bhoy
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strikeThanks

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:51 am

ukjohna wrote:
Markie73 wrote:
Does anybody know if Qatar are providing a full in flight service on the covering flights for BA during the strike?.


At least on the flight from SOF, the Club Europe service was provided with BA menus, food, glasses and cutlery.

The Catering would always be BA standard on such flights... The contracts with Caterers at the out stations will be organised months if not years in advance about what they provide in the way of tableware etc, and just because it's suddenly at shirtnotice a QR Aircraft rather than a BA one showing up at Sofia, do you think the Catering firm would rip up the menus and provide something ad hoc with Qatari logos instead? Aside from which, I very much doubt that all the places these are operating to o a one off basis would have any Qatari cutlery or chinaware lying about on the off chance. ;)
 
Andy33
Posts: 2522
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strikeThanks

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:15 am

Bhoy wrote:
ukjohna wrote:
Markie73 wrote:
Does anybody know if Qatar are providing a full in flight service on the covering flights for BA during the strike?.


At least on the flight from SOF, the Club Europe service was provided with BA menus, food, glasses and cutlery.

The Catering would always be BA standard on such flights... The contracts with Caterers at the out stations will be organised months if not years in advance about what they provide in the way of tableware etc, and just because it's suddenly at shirtnotice a QR Aircraft rather than a BA one showing up at Sofia, do you think the Catering firm would rip up the menus and provide something ad hoc with Qatari logos instead? Aside from which, I very much doubt that all the places these are operating to o a one off basis would have any Qatari cutlery or chinaware lying about on the off chance. ;)


BA short-haul flights are return-catered from London nowadays. There is no catering contract at the outstations such as Sofia. Long haul is different of course.
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:37 am

bhdw787 wrote:
This group of Cabin Crew have the choice to take industrial action over fair pay and the illegal removal of benefits, it's their choice, not yours.....


Couple of points here -1) the union and BA already reached agreement on pay issues but union refused to put this to their members and 2) there is no illegal removal of benefits. This latest strike is about non-contractual things that the company can change or remove at anytime without need to consult, as it has done previously.

BA determines what bonus and how it decides to work out that bonus. It is entirely in the company's remit to not give a bonus to any staff or groups of staff if it so chooses. As regards travel benefits, BA has withdrawn travel benefits in past and it also has the power to change them whenever it chooses.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:42 pm

The reason travel is non contractual is because under UK tax law, free or discounted travel is regarded as payment and you will be taxed quite substantially on it. By calling it an optional benefit (or privilege) that can be withdrawn at anytime, it is tax free for staff. That is standard across UK travel and transport.

Unite trying to get that changed is not in the interests of their members, who would get taxed into oblivion. To me it just indicates Unite have no clue what they are doing and this is driven by ideology and not the interests of Mixed Fleet Crew.

I do appreciate that Mixed Fleet Pay isn't particularly high, but frankly hundreds of thousands of Londoners work in shops, cafes and hotels on less money. Not everyone in London is some rich banker you know.

BA know that they don't require highly academically qualified staff, Mixed Fleet gives a unique opportunity to see the world for younger people with the lifestyle privilege of global travel benefits and it beats the package offered by alternate employment options for people with the level of qualification required.

I've certainly read incident reports where having an experienced cabin crew has been noted as helping an incident. I've also flown Mixed Fleet on long flights such as LHR-SIN-SYD and found the crews to be genuinely nice but fairly inept (how could it be possible a white man might have an Indian Vegetarian meal, it can't be, I'll just give the meal to that Indian looking guy over there), so I'm not arguing Mixed Fleet is the best solution. However the pay and conditions are market rate.
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:07 pm

Ryanair01 wrote:
The reason travel is non contractual is because under UK tax law, free or discounted travel is regarded as payment and you will be taxed quite substantially on it. By calling it an optional benefit (or privilege) that can be withdrawn at anytime, it is tax free for staff. That is standard across UK travel and transport.

Unite trying to get that changed is not in the interests of their members, who would get taxed into oblivion. To me it just indicates Unite have no clue what they are doing and this is driven by ideology and not the interests of Mixed Fleet Crew.



On second point on the motives of Unite - I think that the logic is something along the lines of - the strikes (and union) have forced BA to come to the party on a number of issues and the staff who didn't strike get the benefit of that (fair enough and is inherent whenever union membership is optional) but the union members who have been out on strike cop the loss of the perks (such as the travel) which would have to really sting.

For those suggesting that those who signed up for a job should never be allowed to strike or just simply be sacked - see this brief wikipedia article about the strike which started in Bow in East London 129 years ago today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_ma ... ke_of_1888
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 673
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:30 pm

luftaom wrote:
For those suggesting that those who signed up for a job should never be allowed to strike or just simply be sacked - see this brief wikipedia article about the strike which started in Bow in East London 129 years ago today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_ma ... ke_of_1888


Yep, unions have come some way. 129 years ago they were fighting to stop child labour and white phosphorus. Today they are fighting for free travel perks.

EDIT: changed red to white
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:26 pm

and when you don't have unions or decent worker protection laws you get this - https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interact ... h-nothing/
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:32 pm

and when you don't have unions or decent worker protection laws you get this - https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interact ... h-nothing/
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:13 pm

Markie73 wrote:
Does anybody know if Qatar are providing a full in flight service on the covering flights for BA during the strike?.

It's impossible to provide a transparent service as the wet-lease aircraft and crew are not identical to those of BA's. One problem that sometimes occurs is when a passenger prepays for a seat but can't get it because the wet-lease aircraft has a different configuration to the BA aircraft. In such a case, if a suitable alternative seat cannot be found, the passenger can apply for a refund.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:46 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW348/df0e9af

NICE, A340 LHR-NCE, a great ride for 1h30. :D
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
jnev3289
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:45 am

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:27 pm

luftaom wrote:
and when you don't have unions or decent worker protection laws you get this - https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interact ... h-nothing/

Thank god driverless cars/trucks will replace these poor people sooner than later
 
Joelatbsl
Posts: 759
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:51 pm

Re: BA applies to use Qatari aircraft to cover strike

Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:18 pm

These QR A320 will keep being busy on BA's behalf for the next few days:

http://joelatbsl.blogspot.com/2017/06/q ... ehalf.html

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos